Bobby Reid

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

This is much like the original writer - we can all make assumptions without actually watching the game. A close friend covers Cardiff every week and has been impressed with Bobby. It's not a coincidence they have a problem with strikers, for a start he's not an out-and-out number nine and they play some variation of 4-5-1 most weeks.

If they can get a new man in during January, which they've made very clear they want to, he might be more effect him. Get him in at 10 off someone like Diedhou, and I would expect him to do well.

Cardiff could well end up staying in the Premier League, so that's another second season of football for him there if he stays. Not sure that would be a failure for anyone.

Maybe so, but I doubt Warnock will change to a more attacking formation. His approach has delivered some important results at home, the key to them staying up.

The fact remains that Warnock has said he wants to sign a striker who works hard and scores goals, so presumably he has decided that Bobby doesn't fit that particular bill.

Meanwhile he is playing a converted full back as his first choice striker.

If I were Bobby I would not be feeling I was much in the manager's favour right now. Still, a job as impact sub on Prem wages is some consolation.

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, RedDave said:

I am a bit sad really. Loved Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid so for their first seasons in Prem I am trying to watch all of their minutes. Partly as I believe they are Prem quality and want to see if I am correct or not! Overall the jury is out on both. Would say both are 6/10 seasons so far but both desperately need a run of games and to be allowed to adapt 

I'm afraid Joe is looking as out of his depth as the rest of Fulham's defenders. Both the Guardian Football Weekly and Totally Football podcasts this week gave him a hammering for being nowhere to be seen when Antonio had the freedom of the area to score West Ham's second goal.

Indeed Michael Cox on the latter said he had to rewind several times before he found him on the right side of midfield.

A terrific attacking full back, especially suited to a 3-5-2, but positional discipline and tracking back were never his greatest strengths.

[And Its Smith]

23 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm afraid Joe is looking as out of his depth as the rest of Fulham's defenders. Both the Guardian Football Weekly and Totally Football podcasts this week gave him a hammering for being nowhere to be seen when Antonio had the freedom of the area to score West Ham's second goal.

Indeed Michael Cox on the latter said he had to rewind several times before he found him on the right side of midfield.

A terrific attacking full back, especially suited to a 3-5-2, but positional discipline and tracking back were never his greatest strengths.

What a ridiculous thing for Michael Cox to say.  If he knew anything about football and Fulham’s style then he would know that if a player is involved in a move that draws him out of position then if they lose the ball others should cover.  Bryan was involved on the right for the good of the team, assuming under instruction, and then wasn’t covered.

That isn’t his fault. You and Cox may think it is but you would be wrong.  If a manager wants a fluid style then obviously it is not just down to one player to cover a certain area. 

[Aaron-Bcfc]

12 hours ago, RedDave said:

Some city fans seem to dislike Reid now and I don’t understand why. He went to a rival granted but that was to secure his and his family’s future

Because they spent years and years hammering the lad for being shite, lightweight, only plays because he’s from the academy etc etc and are still desperate to be proved right. Must’ve really hurt them when he went on to leave us for a 10m fee to a Premier League club managed by Neil Warnock..

[Robin1988]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Maybe so, but I doubt Warnock will change to a more attacking formation. His approach has delivered some important results at home, the key to them staying up.

The fact remains that Warnock has said he wants to sign a striker who works hard and scores goals, so presumably he has decided that Bobby doesn't fit that particular bill.

Meanwhile he is playing a converted full back as his first choice striker.

If I were Bobby I would not be feeling I was much in the manager's favour right now. Still, a job as impact sub on Prem wages is some consolation.

They haven't got the most quality in the world at the moment, but they don't play terrible football. He's played a part in all but three of Cardiff's games so far, it's not terrible for a league he's never been in, a league his club has only been in once before (and finished last) and without a real striker of quality (Zohore too lazy, Madine shit) to play with. If Junior Hoilett can make it in that team, so can Bobby.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

5 hours ago, RedM said:

He was never going to do well in a Warnock team, but the move ticked a few boxes for him. Premiership. Local. Big improvement in wages/contract. You can’t blame him for jumping, especially when we fell apart and a few teammates were looking a moves away. Maybe he hoped/hopes Warnock won’t last long and another Manager will come in with more style, if they don’t get relegated first.

How did Adel Taarabt play the best football of his career under Warnock then?

[RedM]

36 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

How did Adel Taarabt play the best football of his career under Warnock then?

There is always an exception to the rule.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Tbh at times at home, Cardiff's football vs the lesser/middling sides has been more positive than people would expect IMO.

Still doesn't change the fact Reid isn't getting a proper go in his correct position or that Cardiff could indeed play football a bit better than in general.

Think Warnock's track record though generally known is a little more mixed- his QPR side were decent to watch, his Sheffield United side were not too bad. Brought through youth in his first spell at Palace and indeed at Sheff Utd.

In general he has a reputation as a short term, horrible football don't bother with youth but fill up with journeymen and it's often pretty much- but it's not always true. Plus the Taarabt example as @Aaron-Bcfc pointed out.

I digress though, Reid is doing okay in the circs. Not brilliant however at the same time, no disaster.

[chinapig]

5 hours ago, RedDave said:

What a ridiculous thing for Michael Cox to say.  If he knew anything about football and Fulham’s style then he would know that if a player is involved in a move that draws him out of position then if they lose the ball others should cover.  Bryan was involved on the right for the good of the team, assuming under instruction, and then wasn’t covered.

That isn’t his fault. You and Cox may think it is but you would be wrong.  If a manager wants a fluid style then obviously it is not just down to one player to cover a certain area. 

As far as Michael Cox is concerned, I would recommend his book The Mixer, which displays plenty of knowledge of the evolution of tactics in the Premier League.

Fulham's alleged fluidity is a legacy of Jokanovic's inability to sort out their defending  but it is not Ranieri's style, viz his Leicester side with a disciplined, orthodox back four. He is very much an Italian coach.

There are reasons why Fulham have conceded so many goals, lack of defensive structure and discipline being one.

[Nogbad the Bad]

18 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I have, but I’m a bit sceptical about it. Why?

I just wonder what attributes the analysts could have produced that would’ve made Bobby appear to be a mis-positioned player likely to get 19 goals in a season. 

If you said they produced a set of stats to say he would make a great partner to Diedhiou as his willing runner / space creator and used to trigger our press when we don’t have the ball, I could believe that. 

I just think LJ remembered Bobby played as a striker in youth games (when LJ was helping to coach them) and on a hunch with inuries to Taylor and Djuric in pre-season, wondered if he could temporarily transform him. 

He might have asked for some stats to help justify, but no stats would predicate 19 goals last season. 

It does make a good story. 

Well, LJ said it at the time and tbh.I think your version is unlikely Dave.

If LJ had that hunch, that Bobby could play successfully as a striker, a finisher that is, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary in terms of his finishing ability in the previous 5 seasons, then he put that finishing ability to the test at length the previous season when if you recall for a long spell he built his tactics around BR being played as the last man in a 3, ' the 'third man' as he put it.

The idea of this was Bobby, lacking strength and stamina at the time, would only receive the ball approaching the climax of a move, in advanced positions and in space, with the opportunity to finish off the move with an effort on goal.

Though the tactic proved a success in that good chances fell fairly thick and fast to BR, we all saw that it proved disastrous, his finishing was consistently appalling, and the idea (and Bobby Reid) was eventually dropped, with the perennially inconsistent midfield player then apparently set for a free transfer when his contract expired. So, if LJ had a hunch, it was surely that BR could score fairly heavily from midfield if his other duties were reduced and his responsibilities largely limited to being set up to be a shot taker.

Not as a striker though, that's where the backroom analysts seem to have come to the fore, according to LJ's comments at the time. I've no idea what the backroom analysts based their recommendation on - BR would have seemed one of the very last you'd expect to be recommended to be pushed up as a striker - however recommend it they apparently did and of course it paid dividends immediately when LJ tried it out in the close season against inferior opponents, he started scoring immediately, and the confidence that engendered continued into the league campaign.

Maybe the analysts noted a marked increase in his stamina and physicality when he returned for tests following his intense close season training away from the club and thought that could make the difference?

I'm not sceptical at all. I think it's great the team of analysts came up trumps with a genuinely innovative suggestion for the coach from whatever statistical data they had access to, and also that the coach was willing to follow that recommendation, however unlikely it must have seemed it would succeed.

Credit all round, an almost unbelievable, mind-boggling transformation for a season, although even in their wildest dreams the backroom analysts couldn't have anticipated 19 goals, I'm sure. His whole game improved dramatically with his added stamina and the confidence of scoring regularly and 10m banked from Cardiff, thank you very much.

Great work all involved.

 

 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Well, LJ said it at the time and tbh.I think your version is unlikely Dave.

Yes, I know he said it back then.

If LJ had that hunch, that Bobby could play successfully as a striker, a finisher that is, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary in terms of his finishing ability in the previous 5 seasons, then he put that finishing ability to the test at length the previous season when if you recall for a long spell he built his tactics around BR being played as the last man in a 3, ' the 'third man' as he put it.

Do you mean in the first half of 16/17 season?  He actually started the season pretty well, had four goals by the end of Sept, and playing Tammy alone in the main, meant we could play the extra “midfielder”, inc Tomlin too.

The high profile misses v Cardiff and Reading seemed to abandon the plan and Bobby flitted in and out of the team for the rest of the season.

The idea of this was Bobby, lacking strength and stamina at the time, would only receive the ball approaching the climax of a move, in advanced positions and in space, with the opportunity to finish off the move with an effort on goal.

Though the tactic proved a success in that good chances fell fairly thick and fast to BR, we all saw that it proved disastrous, his finishing was consistently appalling, and the idea (and Bobby Reid) was eventually dropped, with the perennially inconsistent midfield player then apparently set for a free transfer when his contract expired. So, if LJ had a hunch, it was surely that BR could score fairly heavily from midfield if his other duties were reduced and his responsibilities largely limited to being set up to be a shot taker.

Yes, looks like we are saying similar things about season 16/17.

I think what i’m saying is that Lee May have seen Bobby as the second striker, not necessarily a goalscoring striker (certainly not 19, maybe 7/8), but would be a good foil for Diedhiou, who we’d just spent £5m on.

Not as a striker though, that's where the backroom analysts seem to have come to the fore, according to LJ's comments at the time. I've no idea what the backroom analysts based their recommendation on - BR would have seemed one of the very last you'd expect to be recommended to be pushed up as a striker - however recommend it they apparently did and of course it paid dividends immediately when LJ tried it out in the close season against inferior opponents, he started scoring immediately, and the confidence that engendered continued into the league campaign.

As above, the analysts might have picked up stuff that would lead to thinking he might be more productive starting further forward....that might’ve been with assists, lightening the load defensively, where his attac-minded approach often got us into trouble.

Maybe the analysts noted a marked increase in his stamina and physicality when he returned for tests following his intense close season training away from the club and thought that could make the difference?

I'm not sceptical at all. I think it's great the team of analysts came up trumps with a genuinely innovative suggestion for the coach from whatever statistical data they had access to, and also that the coach was willing to follow that recommendation, however unlikely it must have seemed it would succeed.

Credit all round, an almost unbelievable, mind-boggling transformation for a season, although even in their wildest dreams the backroom analysts couldn't have anticipated 19 goals, I'm sure. His whole game improved dramatically with his added stamina and the confidence of scoring regularly and 10m banked from Cardiff, thank you very much.

Agree, the heavy goal output was the unexpected bit imho.  I didn’t doubt his ability to play there in all aspects other than goal output.  Taking him out of the midfield was a sensible / clever move.  

Great work all involved.

 

 

A few comments above

[Robinabank]

If Cardiff stay up (there currently looks to be three worse teams than them) do we get an extra million? Is that right? £9m+£1m?

[Dr_Castro]

I imagine we will see him when we play Aston Villa next season....

[BlueDredd]

I'm a big fan of Bobby at Cardiff. I think he airs a fantastic professionalism for a player that's not yet had his chance.

In my honest opinion, he's not the player we should have bought. We are simply unable to compete without Gunnarson, Arter, and Camarasa in our midfield and with our style of play the big man up top is the only way we'll go.

I think pushing him wide is a waste.. And we'd be unable to play him up top as it seems that there's far less space to play in front of a back four at this level... So he'd be knocked off the ball too easily. I really fear that we have a great talent at our disposal that doesn't fit anywhere into our formation.

If we do come back down and keep hold of him, I'm sure whoever's in charge will fix a system that will get what we need out of him.

[Major Isewater]

40 minutes ago, BlueDredd said:

I'm a big fan of Bobby at Cardiff. I think he airs a fantastic professionalism for a player that's not yet had his chance.

In my honest opinion, he's not the player we should have bought. We are simply unable to compete without Gunnarson, Arter, and Camarasa in our midfield and with our style of play the big man up top is the only way we'll go.

I think pushing him wide is a waste.. And we'd be unable to play him up top as it seems that there's far less space to play in front of a back four at this level... So he'd be knocked off the ball too easily. I really fear that we have a great talent at our disposal that doesn't fit anywhere into our formation.

If we do come back down and keep hold of him, I'm sure whoever's in charge will fix a system that will get what we need out of him.

Let's be clear here, Reid didn't sign for you because he'd always had a soft spot for Cardiff . 

The only reason was that you were in the Prem , if , when , you get relegated don't imagine for one moment that Reid's agent will be sat on his hands .

 

l

[BlueDredd]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

Let's be clear here, Reid didn't sign for you because he'd always had a soft spot for Cardiff . 

The only reason was that you were in the Prem , if , when , you get relegated don't imagine for one moment that Reid's agent will be sat on his hands .

 

l

I didn't realise that stating the obvious was the basis of this conversation.

Reid's agent can do what he likes. I can imagine a season sat on the bench will really attract the ambitious premier league side won't it.. Just like it has done with the relegated sides in the past. I think you're displaying a fair bit of naivety based on your love for your ex player, which is understandable.

If Bobby has an unsuccessful season at Cardiff and we're relegated, he will remain with us, contracted, with little Premier League interest.

 

 

[Major Isewater]

23 minutes ago, BlueDredd said:

I didn't realise that stating the obvious was the basis of this conversation.

Reid's agent can do what he likes. I can imagine a season sat on the bench will really attract the ambitious premier league side won't it.. Just like it has done with the relegated sides in the past. I think you're displaying a fair bit of naivety based on your love for your ex player, which is understandable.

If Bobby has an unsuccessful season at Cardiff and we're relegated, he will remain with us, contracted, with little Premier League interest.

 

 

Don't believe that there would be little Prem interest. 

There will always be clubs willing to take on the players of relegated sides.

He was , is and will be monitored by others knowing that Cardiff are not getting the best out of him but even a season of Prem football would be enough to increase his value to them. 

He won't be the only you'll lose either. 

I can see a Sunderland situation for your club. 

[BlueDredd]

7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Don't believe that there would be little Prem interest. 

There will always be clubs willing to take on the players of relegated sides.

He was , is and will be monitored by others knowing that Cardiff are not getting the best out of him but even a season of Prem football would be enough to increase his value to them. 

He won't be the only you'll lose either. 

I can see a Sunderland situation for your club. 

You're obviously just letting your distaste for my club get in the way of rational thought.

Sunderland, a massive club having to make enormous cuts after relying on premier league money for 12 years is a little bit different than us. A team already prepped for the drop.

We've reaped the rewards of being promoted, spent little money and have an owner that's actually willing to invest to some extent (unlike Ellis Short). We have been sustainable in the Championship, and will be again if we are relegated.

I've always ranked your opinion a little higher than some on this forum.. But with the clear snappy comments (that I don't think you even really believe) looks to me like I've touched a nerve. Quite enjoyable I must say.

[RedEyez]

@BlueDredd @Major Isewater this is really fun, keep going

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, BlueDredd said:

You're obviously just letting your distaste for my club get in the way of rational thought.

Sunderland, a massive club having to make enormous cuts after relying on premier league money for 12 years is a little bit different than us. A team already prepped for the drop.

We've reaped the rewards of being promoted, spent little money and have an owner that's actually willing to invest to some extent (unlike Ellis Short). We have been sustainable in the Championship, and will be again if we are relegated.

Have to say , I agree with you

[Major Isewater]

4 minutes ago, BlueDredd said:

You're obviously just letting your distaste for my club get in the way of rational thought.

Sunderland, a massive club having to make enormous cuts after relying on premier league money for 12 years is a little bit different than us. A team already prepped for the drop.

We've reaped the rewards of being promoted, spent little money and have an owner that's actually willing to invest to some extent (unlike Ellis Short). We have been sustainable in the Championship, and will be again if we are relegated.

I've always ranked your opinion a little higher than some on this forum.. But with the clear snappy comments (that I don't think you even really believe) looks to me like I've touched a nerve. Quite enjoyable I must say.

Damn , you've got me there.

 I am actually totally indifferent to Cardiff. 

Just having a bit of banter with you old fruit , like relying  on cheap viagra bought on the internet, I can't keep it up . 

 

[BlueDredd]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

Damn , you've got me there.

 I am actually totally indifferent to Cardiff. 

Just having a bit of banter with you old fruit , like relying  on cheap viagra bought on the internet, I can't keep it up . 

 

Oh I get it. Love all the banter

"Shit Bristol Rovers! You're just a shit Bristol Rovers!"

[elhombrecito]

1 minute ago, BlueDredd said:

"Shit Bristol Rovers! You're just a shit Bristol Rovers!"

Crikey, how bad would you have to be to be an even shitter version of the 15ers? 

[Major Isewater]

10 minutes ago, RedEyez said:

@BlueDredd @Major Isewater this is really fun, keep going

Sorry to disappoint you Redeyez, I can't.

 I will keep my powder dry for someone who really merits it but when I think of BlueDredd this image comes to mind and I have to stop.

 

[BlueDredd]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

Sorry to disappoint you Redeyez, I can't.

 I will keep my powder dry for someone who really merits it but when I think of BlueDredd this image comes to mind and I have to stop.

 

Really clutching at straws now... I love it.

[BlueDredd]

"If I pretend that I was joking, maybe I can make it look like Dredd can't handle banter"

Such an underrated cop out

['Orns]

12 minutes ago, BlueDredd said:

"Shit Bristol Rovers! You're just a shit Bristol Rovers!"

You were doing so well until that point, Dredd!

 

[Super]

What kind of reception will OGS get on Saturday @BlueDredd. I actually want a Cardiff win.

[BlueDredd]

4 minutes ago, Woodsy said:

You were doing so well until that point, Dredd!

 

You didn't get it man! You didn't get it!

[BlueDredd]

15 minutes ago, Super said:

What kind of reception will OGS get on Saturday @BlueDredd. I actually want a Cardiff win.

Despite an unsuccessful period at Cardiff.. How could anyone give the guy a bad reception?

He tried his best at Cardiff, but just couldn't steady the ship after Malky Mackay left. Plus he's one of the nicest guys in football!

Won't get a bad reception from me.