Emiliano Sala

[Super]

The businessman who organised a flight that crashed, killing footballer Emiliano Sala, has been jailed for 18 months for endangering the safety of an aircraft.

Pretty pathetic sentence.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Super

[Fordy62]

5 minutes ago, Super said:

The businessman who organised a flight that crashed, killing footballer Emiliano Sala, has been jailed for 18 months for endangering the safety of an aircraft.

Pretty pathetic sentence.

What did he do to endanger it? I mean I know he arranged it, but what did he do wrong?

[Super]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

What did he do to endanger it? I mean I know he arranged it, but what did he do wrong?

Surely getting someone who doesn't hold a commercial pilots licience to fly a plane?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

6 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

What did he do to endanger it? I mean I know he arranged it, but what did he do wrong?

He’s been convicted of a criminal offence for heaven’s sake.  His actions contributed to two men losing their lives.

[Chicken George]

18 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

What did he do to endanger it? I mean I know he arranged it, but what did he do wrong?

And you’re supposed to be a copper??!!
 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Enter Sandman

[Fordy62]

You lot are a little touchy this morning. Re read my question and just answer it. I don’t know the answer, that’s why I’m asking!

[BTRFTG]

4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

What did he do to endanger it? I mean I know he arranged it, but what did he do wrong?

The CAA report highlighted Henderson's cavalier attitude toward paperwork and regulation. Recall, although everybody's focussing on the pilot's lack of current credentials the primary cause of the accident was a badly maintained aircraft leaking carbon monoxide into the cabin, thus incapacitating the occupants. It would be difficult to prove that lack of current credentials made the difference, rather it's a succession of failings that caused the crash (as is the norm in such cases.) As the pilot had previously held various licences it would be difficult to prove beyond doubt that allowing Ibbotson to pilot would likely have resulted in an accident, that's why the endangering charge arose. His actions were reckless and dangerous though clearly not intended to kill.

Its also somewhat moot. I used to charter a couple of planes out of Rochford & Maastricht each night shipping newspapers and other goods. Those flights weren't licenced to carry passengers but there was nothing to prevent I or anybody else I and the pilot  authorised to travel sitting in for the ride. Key factor in the paperwork being occupants other than the pilot weren't insured. But sure as hell I wouldn't have flown were I not sure the flight operator ran a safety first, no corners cut operation.

[Fordy62]

17 minutes ago, Super said:

Surely getting someone who doesn't hold a commercial pilots licience to fly a plane?

I didn’t know. I haven’t followed the case particular, so cheers. 

[CliftonCliff]

Henderson does emerge from this looking like a pretty despicable character. I wonder if this conviction and sentence might not, in fact, be the end of it. He seems to have been found guilty of flagrant breaches of aviation regulations and sentenced accordingly, but the inquest into Sala’s tragic death doesn’t open until next year. If, say, a verdict of “unlawful killing “ were to be delivered, would that then render him liable to charges of a still more serious nature, in addition to the technical transgressions? Or indeed, open to a civil action by the player’s family? Any lawyers out there who can offer an insight?

[Andy082005]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

What did he do to endanger it? I mean I know he arranged it, but what did he do wrong?

Surely by allowing someone to fly a plane who shouldn’t have been flying said plane….

[Maesknoll Red]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

Surely by allowing someone to fly a plane who shouldn’t have been flying said plane….

Doesn’t the pilot without the correct licences have some responsibility here.  Henderson might have asked him to do it, he didn’t have to.  Dual culpability surely?

[Chicken George]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

Surely by allowing someone to fly a plane who shouldn’t have been flying said plane….

Amazing that the poster investigates murder!!  

9 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Doesn’t the pilot without the correct licences have some responsibility here.  Henderson might have asked him to do it, he didn’t have to.  Dual culpability surely?

Yeah, but he’s dead so can’t appear in court! 

[Maesknoll Red]

2 minutes ago, Enter Sandman said:

Amazing that the poster investigates murder!!  

Yeah, but he’s dead so can’t appear in court! 

Can’t appear in court, but his actions were contributory, maybe more than the organiser, just like a murderer who then tops himself, is still a murderer.

[Andy082005]

18 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Doesn’t the pilot without the correct licences have some responsibility here.  Henderson might have asked him to do it, he didn’t have to.  Dual culpability surely?

Of course. But ultimately the buck stops with the man at the top 

His business. His legal responsibility to ensure everything is above board and correct 

 

[BTRFTG]

Sala's agent doesn't come out smelling of roses either given he wanted the journeys completed at, what he then considered, all cost.

That's one of the mystery's in this case, why were the journeys so urgent and why wouldn't Sala accept the commercial route offered?

[Chicken George]

47 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Can’t appear in court, but his actions were contributory, maybe more than the organiser, just like a murderer who then tops himself, is still a murderer.

But you seem to be suggesting the court find him guilty too. How can they prosecute and sentence a dead guy? 

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Sala's agent doesn't come out smelling of roses either given he wanted the journeys completed at, what he then considered, all cost.

That's one of the mystery's in this case, why were the journeys so urgent and why wouldn't Sala accept the commercial route offered?

From memory wasn't it a case Sala wanted to stay and say goodbye to people/be at the last game before moving? which wouldn't fit with commercial flights

[redsquirrel]

surely the agent should have checked he was insured etc before telling him to get on with it.

[BTRFTG]

15 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

From memory wasn't it a case Sala wanted to stay and say goodbye to people/be at the last game before moving? which wouldn't fit with commercial flights

I think the story at the time was Sala didn't want to go via Paris & Heathrow, but given he was a nervous flyer and Cardiff (though they've behaved dispicably since the accident,) didn't have him on a three line whip to get back it seems odd that he'd risk the flight - NB he'd commented how concerned he was with the flight out.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Sala's agent doesn't come out smelling of roses either given he wanted the journeys completed at, what he then considered, all cost.

That's one of the mystery's in this case, why were the journeys so urgent and why wouldn't Sala accept the commercial route offered?

What remains a mystery to me is why Willie McKay and/or his son appear to have got off scot free.

[BTRFTG]

Just now, PHILINFRANCE said:

What remains a mystery to me is why Willie McKay and/or his son appear to have got off scot free.

I think that depends upon what evidence they have to suggest he committed a crime? Today's case appears to confirm the authorities think the individual procuring and offering the flight has ultimate responsibility for ensuring that service was legal and safe. Clearly that individual didn't think something might go wrong, such soliciting somebody to turn a blind eye to regulation where one doesn't anticipate harm, I'm not really sure what offence that might be?

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I think that depends upon what evidence they have to suggest he committed a crime? Today's case appears to confirm the authorities think the individual procuring and offering the flight has ultimate responsibility for ensuring that service was legal and safe. Clearly that individual didn't think something might go wrong, such soliciting somebody to turn a blind eye to regulation where one doesn't anticipate harm, I'm not really sure what offence that might be?

Of course, but just as a yellow card is often given for a succesion of 'minor' offences, I was sort of hoping something similar might have happened with Mr McKay.

[BTRFTG]

4 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Of course, but just as a yellow card is often given for a succesion of 'minor' offences, I was sort of hoping something similar might have happened with Mr McKay.

I think the point you make may well get pushed given McKay's actions appear to indicate he considered Sala a Cardiff player (he was) and therefore Cardiff should have had him under their insurance (moot as it's unlikely to have covered trips not organised by the club, though a decent lawyer would push for Cardiff, under vicarious liability, to have actively forbidden their player to have taken unauthorized transport.)

[Maesknoll Red]

2 hours ago, Enter Sandman said:

But you seem to be suggesting the court find him guilty too. How can they prosecute and sentence a dead guy? 

Of course I’m not suggesting a courts can find him guilty, but if he knowingly flew a plane without a licence, he is guilty, it just can’t be nailed on him in court, being dead doesn’t absolve you of crimes, albeit it makes you  immune from prosecution.

[PHILINFRANCE]

29 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I think the point you make may well get pushed given McKay's actions appear to indicate he considered Sala a Cardiff player (he was) and therefore Cardiff should have had him under their insurance (moot as it's unlikely to have covered trips not organised by the club, though a decent lawyer would push for Cardiff, under vicarious liability, to have actively forbidden their player to have taken unauthorized transport.)

I posted almost from the outset that I considered it inconceivable how it might be considered Sala was not a Cardiff player.

For goodness sake, Sala had signed a contract (subject to international clearance, I know), and the transfer was actually registered by FIFA.

Where I suspect (hope) McKay might be implicated is in the arrangements/organisation of the flight itself. As I recall, Cardiff were arguing that they had arranged a commercial flight, but Sala, presumably aided by McKay, decided to take the ill-fated private flight in order to say Goodbye to his teammates.

Henferson is due to be sentenced for both offences later this month, although I doubt we will hear much more now until after the coroner's inquest.

 

 

[LoyalRed]

12 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I think the story at the time was Sala didn't want to go via Paris & Heathrow, but given he was a nervous flyer and Cardiff (though they've behaved dispicably since the accident,) didn't have him on a three line whip to get back it seems odd that he'd risk the flight - NB he'd commented how concerned he was with the flight out.

Bloody hell, as a nervous flyer myself with a storm in the channel think I would have opted for commercial flight.

Likely when promised a private jet his thoughts on what he would be travelling in were not the same as what greeted him at the airport. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by LoyalRed

[CyderInACan]

This is just tragic. The impact on his family has been huge with his father pretty much dying of a broken heart not long after his son’s death. 

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, CyderInACan said:

This is just tragic. The impact on his family has been huge with his father pretty much dying of a broken heart not long after his son’s death. 

I know. Heartbreaking. The last message to his dad saying he was really scared…poor love. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

17 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I know. Heartbreaking. The last message to his dad saying he was really scared…poor love. 

Indeed.

I suspect we are, many of us, guilty of overlooking the fact that these hard, sometimes brash, cocky young footballers are just that; young men, sometimes living away from home and family for the first time in an unfamiliar country whose language and culture is alien to them.

Of course they are nervous, and it can be no surprise when, being so alone (and lonely), they are often led astray and succumb to the many temptations available to them.

[GrahamC]

13 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I posted almost from the outset that I considered it inconceivable how it might be considered Sala was not a Cardiff player.

For goodness sake, Sala had signed a contract (subject to international clearance, I know), and the transfer was actually registered by FIFA.

Where I suspect (hope) McKay might be implicated is in the arrangements/organisation of the flight itself. As I recall, Cardiff were arguing that they had arranged a commercial flight, but Sala, presumably aided by McKay, decided to take the ill-fated private flight in order to say Goodbye to his teammates.

Henferson is due to be sentenced for both offences later this month, although I doubt we will hear much more now until after the coroner's inquest.

 

 

Yep, no one comes out of this well at all but Cardiff’s behaviour has been disgusting throughout, though of course that’s not the way their mates at BBC Sport Wales has reported any of this.