Post story - LJ and Palmer conflict means Nketiah could go elsewhere

[BCFC Grim]

9 minutes ago, RedsTilliDie said:

Realistically 1 in 5 games Palmer can make a difference but almost all of the  time when he is playing the match forum is filled with “Palmer bad pass” “Palmer caught in possession” etc . Personally I think he good but not completely necessary to the club to keep a hold on to change our season . Comparing him to Elliason is silly in my opinion as elliason is proving himself valuable game in game out . Whereas Kasey does one gd thing now and then and gets the same credit . Not worth the fuss imo get him out and move on  

I'd be amazed if he has even started 5 games in a row. All good and well saying he hasn't performed but when he does get a chance hes getting chucked here, there and everywhere. Not had a proper run in the side which must be frustrating when the same players are getting picked time and time again.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Badger08 said:

I don't get how this is relevant? 
McGregor being closer to sources than me means he's always 100% correct? I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. 

Mcgregor said that Eddie was joining us too..... But..... 
He said Tinnon was angry at LJ.... But.... 

These articles were right then as he is closer to sources than me.  Stupid argument, sorry. 

I think all @mozo is trying to say is that Gregor will have what he thinks are reliable sources, and therefore writing in good faith that what he’s been fed is accurate.  He’s given LJ right of reply.

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

I'm amused at the number of people on here who've "heard stuff" (before anyone starts, I know there are a handful who are credible and trustworthy)

Yeah, sure you have lads...

Yes, me too.  I know of two people who “might” know stuff.  One is Joe Morrell’s dad, who tells me nothing, other than how Joe is getting on.  The other person normally mails me to tell me I’m talking shit on OTIB!!

Seriously though, I think you have to question anyone on how close they are to a genuine source. And then would that source tell someone!

On Saturday, I heard two stories:

1) that there was gonna be an announcement at h-t.  It came from a steward, who knew ‘someone’ at the club....but who at the club

2) the other was that Nketiah had been recalled.  No source, just “I’ve heard that....”.

in the second example, Nketiah was starting for Leeds when teams announced.  Ok, subsequently recalled.

City are pretty good at keeping transfer stuff under the radar, if they can control agents etc.

 

[Natchfever]

3 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I don't get how this is relevant? 
McGregor being closer to sources than me means he's always 100% correct? I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. 

Mcgregor said that Eddie was joining us too..... But..... 
He said Tinnon was angry at LJ.... But.... 

These articles were right then as he is closer to sources than me.  Stupid argument, sorry. 

No offence Badger but he is better connected than you, so if he puts his head over the parapet on this story, which is unlike him, I would be inclined to believe there is something in it, rather than accept your claims that he isn't credible because he (like BCFC it seems) were wrong about NKeitah coming here, or believed (apparently) a story about Tinnion via another former player, which I accept was ill advised and merited further research.

I haven't read the article because BP annoys me with all the clickbait but if he actually says that KP was brought into the club over his head, then it isn't all anti Johnson is it, and frankly if the club is relying upon Mark Ashton to actually identify and select players to sign then its no surprise we have players the coach won't play.

[maxjak]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

The whole KP scenario screams of a crap attitude and a disruptive influence along with failure to stick to the team’s instructions............No manager will want to keep a disruptive player around the squad.

Good riddance I say.

What ludicrous conjecture.........you have absolutely no evidence of his attitude being "Crap",  and your accusation that he is disruptive has no basis in fact?   You appear to have developed the snakes belly attitude of a Sun journalist, where the truth never gets in the way of a good story.  I thought you were better than this?

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well it's not a classy way to achieve that goal and we're back to damaging relationships...

Totally agree.

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, WhistleHappy said:

measuring optimum length of grass ffs

One for the coaches out there but always struck me:

You may only dictate the length of grass when playing at home, so if the groundman's been instructed to cut it to 3mm why then measure it?

What exactly do you coach differently if the pitch away is 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm or whatever? Unless the stuff is so long it comes abive one's boots really what difference does it make?

Strangely, irrespective of the grass length many of our players appear unable to control the ball, though perhaps WeeLee skipped that module?

[Merrick's Marvels]

28 minutes ago, RedsTilliDie said:

Realistically 1 in 5 games Palmer can make a difference but almost all of the  time when he is playing the match forum is filled with “Palmer bad pass” “Palmer caught in possession” etc . Personally I think he good but not completely necessary to the club to keep a hold on to change our season . Comparing him to Elliason is silly in my opinion as elliason is proving himself valuable game in game out . Whereas Kasey does one gd thing now and then and gets the same credit . Not worth the fuss imo get him out and move on  

You might want to consider the possibility that the reason for this (the highlighted bit above) is the lack of options in front of him, ie a lumbering Fam, Weimann running down cul-de-sacs, midfielders who hardly ever get ahead of the ball, etc etc etc

He has an awful lot to learn but has shown enough in patches to suggest he can be a point of difference with the right players around him. Losing Afobe and Nketiah has not helped his cause, nor ours.  

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

One for the coaches out there but always struck me:

You may only dictate the length of grass when playing at home, so if the groundman's been instructed to cut it to 3mm why then measure it?

What exactly do you coach differently if the pitch away is 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm or whatever? Unless the stuff is so long it comes abive one's boots really what difference does it make?

Strangely, irrespective of the grass length many of our players appear unable to control the ball, though perhaps WeeLee skipped that module?

Even as a non-pro footballer it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know a pitch is a bit lively or not.  You can do that during the warm-up.  As a pro, you ought to be able to know whether you can zip it about, it whether you’re gonna need to put a bit more weight on a pass.  If pro footballers are getting this info based on a measurement then they should be ashamed of themselves.

[Red Exile]

14 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I'm amused at the number of people on here who've "heard stuff" (before anyone starts, I know there are a handful who are credible and trustworthy)

Yeah, sure you have lads...

I'm similarly amused - but sometimes you do indeed hear stuff...in my case in a handful of 'from the horses mouth' encounters when meeting folk at the club, when it would feel like an appalling breach of trust to repeat what they've said on here, but also 3 other occasions...

At the end of the GJ era I overheard an unguarded and very candid conversation between two first team players about their team mates in the 'quiet' carriage on a train back from London...they were sat in the seats behind me, couldn't miss it, they were very loud...which was inflammatory and very ill-advised on their part. And twice recently people involved in the world of football, knowing that I'm a City fan, have told me things which have shaped my understanding of the current situation but really can't be repeated without landing them in it.

Its hard to stop gossip leaking out of any institution and gossip often contains a grain of truth.

[Redrascal2]

10 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

I'd be amazed if he has even started 5 games in a row. All good and well saying he hasn't performed but when he does get a chance hes getting chucked here, there and everywhere. Not had a proper run in the side which must be frustrating when the same players are getting picked time and time again.

Not the first time Johnson has done this. Players signed and never given a real chance. It makes it worse that KP was here on loan and surely Johnson must have known all about him from this time. Why sign him in the first place. Demonstrates a Manager with no clear idea of what he wants in terms of style of play and tactics. Hence signing without a clear idea of where they will fit in. Another club for the bag? Johnson filled 4 or 5 bags already and still not got it right

 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

All managers have shortcomings Dave and LJ is no exception and I remain neutral between the LJ in and the LJ out brigade - the reason being is because history has shown us that SL will stick by his man unless City are deep in relegation mire and I’m resigned to that fact.

To me there’s absolutely no point in calling for his head - it simply won’t happen and exactly why I find these LJ out posts completely pointless.

Btw - his dad was sacked after getting into a brawl with his players and afterwards the senior players went to SL saying they refused to play for him any longer.
 

I'm with you on the pointlessness of calling for LJ to be sacked or otherwise, if only because it's not up to me! Yes, Lansdown has a very clear presumption against sacking managers as a knee jerk reaction, and I think that's right. But I also think that history shows that he's as concerned about relationships within the club as he is about points on the board. There's one time a manager went when we weren't actually in a relegation mire......

And if what you describe in your final paragraph isn't poor man management then I don't know what is!

[Shtanley]

Well everyone knows LJ has a thing for singling players out. Especially the less experienced, which Palmer may count as. Anyone recall Taylor Moore’s treatment after Ipswich a couple years ago?

If Afobe never gets injured Kasey Palmer is probably is our top assister and in the running for player of the year by now  

 

interesting to see people’s thoughts on the MA LJ relationship, that they’re less in simpatico than we all are lead to believe. 

[NickJ]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Even as a non-pro footballer it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know a pitch is a bit lively or not.  You can do that during the warm-up.  As a pro, you ought to be able to know whether you can zip it about, it whether you’re gonna need to put a bit more weight on a pass.  If pro footballers are getting this info based on a measurement then they should be ashamed of themselves.

And of course no sane person never mind professional footballers, would treat that seriously, in fact I'd put good money on it that the players ripped the piss out of it among themselves.

My assessment, quite seriously, is that grass measuring stunt was a deluded attempt to demonstrate what a forward thinking coach LJ is, forever seeking out those "fine margins".

In reality it was farcical bullshit - apart from anything, does anyone really believe it is possible to measure grass from the ground to a millimeter precision with a tape measure - and is just an example why I cannot take Johnson seriously.

[BRISTOL86]

8 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I'm similarly amused - but sometimes you do indeed hear stuff...in my case in a handful of 'from the horses mouth' encounters when meeting folk at the club, when it would feel like an appalling breach of trust to repeat what they've said on here, but also 3 other occasions...

At the end of the GJ era I overheard an unguarded and very candid conversation between two first team players about their team mates in the 'quiet' carriage on a train back from London...they were sat in the seats behind me, couldn't miss it, they were very loud...which was inflammatory and very ill-advised on their part. And twice recently people involved in the world of football, knowing that I'm a City fan, have told me things which have shaped my understanding of the current situation but really can't be repeated without landing them in it.

Its hard to stop gossip leaking out of any institution and gossip often contains a grain of truth.

Now that I want to hear!! 

[Natchfever]

1 minute ago, Badger08 said:

Again, I don't get why you think that I think I'm connected to the club? I don't think you actually get what I'm saying, and if, in your words "you haven't read the article" then I'm afraid you lose all respect their in any debate. 
Just because he is connected, it doesn't mean the article is correct.  

Eh ?

I haven't said you're connected to the club, in fact I have said he's better connected becauise he has a working relationship with BCFC and you don't.

On balancetherefore  I would say he is far more likely to be correct than not.

In fact I have now read the article and it doesn't say he was an Ashton punt (bow your head in shame Major Isewater) so maybe Johnson did want him, which makes the situation of not including a player that cost plenty by our standards in a matchday squad unforgiveable.

No need to debate just agree to disagree this is just a forum, no damage to the club is caused.

[Merrick's Marvels]

8 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Not the first time Johnson has done this. Players signed and never given a real chance. It makes it worse that KP was here on loan and surely Johnson must have known all about him from this time. Why sign him in the first place. Demonstrates a Manager with no clear idea of what he wants in terms of style of play and tactics. Hence signing without a clear idea of where they will fit in. Another club for the bag? Johnson filled 4 or 5 bags already and still not got it right

 

Unless, as others on here have alluded to, it wasn't Johnson who signed him.

I'm not an LJ fan by any means but some of the things he has to contend with under the current business model are like having one hand tied behind your back. They're also the reason many experienced managers with far more impressive CV's than our current manager probably wouldn't want the City job.   

[Mr Popodopolous]

24 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I'm similarly amused - but sometimes you do indeed hear stuff...in my case in a handful of 'from the horses mouth' encounters when meeting folk at the club, when it would feel like an appalling breach of trust to repeat what they've said on here, but also 3 other occasions...

At the end of the GJ era I overheard an unguarded and very candid conversation between two first team players about their team mates in the 'quiet' carriage on a train back from London...they were sat in the seats behind me, couldn't miss it, they were very loud...which was inflammatory and very ill-advised on their part. And twice recently people involved in the world of football, knowing that I'm a City fan, have told me things which have shaped my understanding of the current situation but really can't be repeated without landing them in it.

Its hard to stop gossip leaking out of any institution and gossip often contains a grain of truth.

 

16 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Now that I want to hear!! 

Aaah, go on!!

Go on- they're likely long gone from the club now...the old stuff I mean, they were loud and in public, so not necessarily a breach of trust IMO. Unless any are still at the club in some way.

Certainly agree on the 2nd bolded bit, probably contains a bit of truth too.

@Merrick's Marvels

Does our model differ so vastly from Brentford e.g.? Style of play on the pitch aside...they seem to do rather well despite regular sales!

Clubs selling to invest and reinvest is nothing new...

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Now that I want to hear!! 

haha - my ears were burning! It was a long time ago.

[Red Exile]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

Aaah, go on!!

Go on- they're likely long gone from the club now...the old stuff I mean, they were loud and in public, so not necessarily a breach of trust IMO.

 

Put it like this, they had views on what GJ's departure meant for team selection...

...what was most interesting to me, having never been in a football dressing room, was how candid they were in their assessments of their team mates! 

I'm not going to name them. Felt a bit embarrassing really, and very unprofessional in a quiet public space!

[maxjak]

If Swansea end up with KP and Brewster from Liverpool.........I  can see them climbing the table, and KP's assists improving?

[Fodbarmyarmy]

I thought the BP and mctossface in particular got all their stories from this forum anyway?.....

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

Isn't the real issue with GJ/LJ their own egos? I'm not sure KP has any ego to handle - he certainly doesn't come across like that on social media, the opposite, he comes across as quite a positive-thinking, humble, family man who needs to be trusted. If ever there was an area I think LJ struggles its his own ego - and far more than GJ ever did.

It's the one consistent thread in his tenure that has always worried me and I think massively affects his man-management. I've seen it all the time in business: I see LJ as an insecure leader with a giant brooding ego. That's not me being nasty to him, many great leaders have had exactly the same traits and how they deal with it defines their success.

Sadly I don't think LJ deals with it very well. I get the impression he takes things very personally if the team don't execute and is immediately consumed by how he can distance himself from the blame and punish those he believes have let him down. This is why he scapegoats/dumps players rather than standing square behind them as one team.

Agree , I didn’t phrase it well. The exact reasons you gave. He admitted a couple of years ago he over complicated things. I genuinely believe he thinks he’s a better coach/ tactician than he is. When it goes wrong he can’t come to terms with the fact he’s got it wrong so blames the players in public , but never the experienced ones by name . Look how he used to throw Hörður under the bus. His arrogance is unreal, not having the humility to realise Brentford are a better side and matching them up from the start is just one point. 
I do also think SL  is similar in a way. If he’s forced to sack LJ  then I think we all know what’ll happen. It’ll be Jamie MAC that takes over 

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

 

@Merrick's Marvels

Does our model differ so vastly from Brentford e.g.? Style of play on the pitch aside...they seem to do rather well despite regular sales!

Perhaps the head of recruitment and the head coach are singing from the same hymn sheet at Brentford, Mr P? Who knows.

But there are valid reasons to question whether MA and LJ are as "aligned" (in MA's words) as we've been led to believe.

All complete guesswork of course - that's what the forum's for!     

[Roe]

Doesn't take a thorough investigation to work out LJ has fallen out with Palmer.  To not even include him in the squad for the past few games says it all.  We know he's fell out with Diedhiou on multiple occasions this season too. 

And unless Eliasson is the world's nicest player or just plain unambitious then I'd be amazed if they haven't had plenty of rows as well.  I'm surprised Eliasson went to sit back in the dugout after being brought off in the last game.  Most people would've been straight down the tunnel.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Perhaps the head of recruitment and the head coach are singing from the same hymn sheet at Brentford, Mr P? Who knows.

But there are valid reasons to question whether MA and LJ are as "aligned" (in MA's words) as we've been led to believe.

All complete guesswork of course - that's what the forum's for!     

Okay, with you a bit more now.

I don't think whoever signed them though, we have bad players tbh. Can we improve? Of course- but then so can most teams in world football.

If a load of duds or aging players were bring signed over his head then I'd have full sympathy but I also think that regardless of who signed them, a cohesive side and better football- but not even so much better football, more a consistent style of play even as a starting point, should certainly be possible. Bit conflicted basically (possibly like the situation at the club?)! 

Because even when results were good, the style of play wasn't so much or at least consistenly so...that's on LJ somewhat, regardless of who signed IMO.

[Roe]

It's not at all surprising if it puts off Nketiah (or others) either.  Why would you come here with a fair chance of being publicly blamed and scapegoated like many others.

Same with young talents from leagues 1 and 2.  I'd imagine we have a far from ideal reputation at that now given the ridiculously limited amount of game time we've given to the likes of Adelakun, Eisa and now Szmodics.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I did have some time for GM, but I do question the timing and shitstiring of this article.  I mean, come on.  I get that it's his job, but jesus christ. 

" I hate the way on the podcast that he refers to every team by their nickname too. He loves calling us the Robins" 

You’ve just answered your question....it’s his job.

So we go from doing very nicely to a shambles in 6 games.  What’s the BP reporter assigned to Bristol City meant to do? Write all nicey, nicey articles, rather than try and find out if there’s anything going on.  He’s sourced some info (where true, false or likely somewhere in between).  He won’t have published it without his boss’s approval, and from what I know of that relationship, it isn’t one that wants to do stuff for sensationalism’s sake.

Look at it from the other side....and that something happened in the club, and Gregor didn’t report it, and someone else got the scoop.

Its a commercial world.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay, with you a bit more now.

I don't think whoever signed them though, we have bad players tbh. Can we improve? Of course- but then so can most teams in world football.

If a load of duds or aging players were bring signed over his head then I'd have full sympathy but I also think that regardless of who signed them, a cohesive side and better football- but not even so much better football, more a consistent style of play even as a starting point, should certainly be possible. Bit conflicted basically (possibly like the situation at the club?)! 

Because even when results were good, the style of play wasn't so much or at least consistenly so...that's on LJ somewhat, regardless of who signed IMO.

And now he has Pato back, who looked less than thrilled to be back on Saturday.  He’s normally very jovial, he wasn’t on Saturday!

[IAmNick]

14 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I did have some time for GM, but I do question the timing and shitstiring of this article.  I mean, come on.  I get that it's his job, but jesus christ. 

" I hate the way on the podcast that he refers to every team by their nickname too. He loves calling us the Robins" 

So what you're really doing rather ironically, is castigating people for believing it as it fits their agenda, while yourself finding reasons/choosing not to believe it because it doesn't fit yours?  

[Merrick's Marvels]

22 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Put it like this, they had views on what GJ's departure meant for team selection...

Were they celebrating the end of a perceived nepotism, by any chance?