The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)

[Ska Junkie]

Anyone trying to score political points here is an idiot.

In the modern world, we've NEVER faced anything like this, never. In the 2nd world war the opposition were visible, this time it isn't.

We're in survival mode aren't we? Stop the bickering FFS, we're gonna need each other.

 

BTW, from the first line of 'Ghost town' by the Specials, to the end of ' Bands don't play no more' is exactly 20 seconds for hand washing purposes.

Stay safe everyone! 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Not the time to blame the tories?  Why on earth not?  Their handling of this situation has been a shambles from the very beginning, reminiscent of Chamberlain’s government at the start of the Second World War, which was equally shambolic.  The fact that things are tough for all of is no reason to go soft on a misfiring leadership.  Johnson’s handling of the situation has been chaotic from the outset and he deserves no praise for his attempts to repair the damage he has already done.

Pray enlighten us on how you would have handled it? you must have an alternative plan would love to hear it.

[havanatopia]

5 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

Judging by the glowing praise on here following today's announcements, I would hazard a guess that no self employed skilled tradesmen are adding to the endorsements.

I am.

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

All the ones that come home with handfuls of cash each day because they don't put hardly anything through the books you mean? 

I pay UK tax. And I don't even live half the time in the UK. 

I am happy to pay my fair share... It's quite amazing some of the remarks on here. Not surprising I suppose but when you experience the levels of corruption in other parts of the world not least where I am you thank the lord you are fortunate to be born a Brit.

[RumRed]

7 hours ago, Redpool said:

Fair play to Boris this week. He’s done a fantastic job so far each day in his conference. Full credit to the man.

What an alternative reality you must live in.

Is it nice there?

[RumRed]

6 hours ago, Redpool said:

@Kid in the Riot you’re one of them. Hang your head in shame soyboy.

Had to look up soyboy as I’m not 12, petty name calling is shocking.

 

ps you’re a stupid *** 

[LondonBristolian]

7 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

Judging by the glowing praise on here following today's announcements, I would hazard a guess that no self employed skilled tradesmen are adding to the endorsements.

I apologise. I had not realised there was still nothing being offered to self employed people. That is appalling and needs sorting out.

[LondonBristolian]

5 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

The party political stuff is crazy, would anyone do any better ?  No they wouldn’t,utterly in charterted territory here, NOBODY worldwide has the answer.

All we can do is isolate and stay as safe as we can.

This whole thing is madness, BUT it’s real. 

Stay safe fellow Reds.

The honest answer is that we will find out over the coming weeks and months whether anyone would do better. Other countries such as Germany and the Czech Republic put in social isolation and distancing measures before we did and ordered shutdowns of businesses and schools and for people to stay at a home at a time our government was arguing it was not necessary. Indeed our government and their advisors tacitly admitted on Monday they had been working to the wrong science and making the wrong assumptions about the virus. Even now, our measures are somewhat softer than France or Spain.

 

I absolutely agree that we are in uncharted territory and I certainly do not envy the choices the government has had to make but there was a two week period where we were largely ignoring World Health Organisation advice and instead working from our own models, which we have now ditched, and even now we are not testing people - including frontline staff - even though the WHO believe this is essential in getting the virus under control.

 

Of course nobody has known quite what to do but there is a real possibility we will find out over the coming weeks that not isolating sooner and not tracking cases will mean our fatality rate is higher than other comparable countries. If that does happen then of course the government’s decision making has to be questioned.

[RedM]

8 hours ago, pillred said:

What do you suggest?

I have no idea, in all honesty with the amount of people on here I am interested in other peoples opinions and view points. I guess many still expect to walk into the shops and be served with no idea or understanding how the items get there and no thought to these places and staff. As mentioned it's very, very selfish out there.

Limiting the amount of people in shops at a given time would be a start, one in one out queuing system. 

LImiting payments to contactless only, or have only one cash till. 

Hand gel and wipes provided on entry and exit.

Maybe shops closing for an hour in the middle of the day to allow cleaning and restocking

Staff provided with gloves/handgel/masks

 

Just a few suggestions. Yours?

[One Team In Keynsham]

22 minutes ago, RedM said:

I have no idea, in all honesty with the amount of people on here I am interested in other peoples opinions and view points. I guess many still expect to walk into the shops and be served with no idea or understanding how the items get there and no thought to these places and staff. As mentioned it's very, very selfish out there.

Limiting the amount of people in shops at a given time would be a start, one in one out queuing system. 

LImiting payments to contactless only, or have only one cash till. 

Hand gel and wipes provided on entry and exit.

Maybe shops closing for an hour in the middle of the day to allow cleaning and restocking

Staff provided with gloves/handgel/masks

 

Just a few suggestions. Yours?

I'd throw in encouraging people to switch to online shopping where possible.

With the caveat that from my own experience of trying to get delivery slots with Tesco, the system is already stressed to the hilt, and any extension of service would require significant additional numbers of suitable trucks and qualified drivers.

This might free up space in physical stores to those who are unable to access online and assist with creating the necessary social distancing, etc.

[RedM]

13 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

I'd throw in encouraging people to switch to online shopping where possible.

With the caveat that from my own experience of trying to get delivery slots with Tesco, the system is already stressed to the hilt, and any extension of service would require significant additional numbers of suitable trucks and qualified drivers.

This might free up space in physical stores to those who are unable to access online and assist with creating the necessary social distancing, etc.

Yes, of course. I just assumed that was a given. More online slots should be made available and processed quickly. I think people are finding though that there are no slots, or a long wait for one and having to physically shop anyway, and many online orders are missing the vital things people need

[Phileas Fogg]

7 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

London still ‘moving’ and much more than other major cities.  There are going to be so many deaths in the next two weeks. At least 3000 surely.  Will people change their attitude then?!

Never seen this before, what's it measuring? 

[CotswoldRed]

9 hours ago, Redpool said:

Fair play to Boris this week. He’s done a fantastic job so far each day in his conference. Full credit to the man.

Just wish he'd raise tax that directly targets those who can afford it. It's now we need their wealth. 

I'm willing to pay more.

[LondonBristolian]

Another warning for anyone who thinks this is only affecting elderly and vulnerable people and that, if that does not apply to you, you'll be fine.

This woman is in her 30s, a regular gym goer and has no underlying health conditions:

 

[Bris Red]

8 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Another warning for anyone who thinks this is only affecting elderly and vulnerable people and that, if that does not apply to you, you'll be fine.

This woman is in her 30s, a regular gym goer and has no underlying health conditions:

 

Would be good knowing the percentage of fit and healthy 20/30 year olds that have been affected as badly as this woman has..

[BS2 Red]

9 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

So who would have got everything 100% right- although there seems to be plenty of experts on here.  Doubt anyone would want to step up and do his job at the moment.

Nobody would have got everything 100%, that’s true.

But Johnson has not done a great job so far. 

Experts have been saying for a long time that schools/pubs should be closed. He reacted way too late.

It’s great that he’s guaranteeing workers wages up to 80%. But it’s also damn clear that the self employed are going to need help. That’s a clear own goal, especially from a political party that usually champions small businesses.

Criticising (or indeed praising) the government doesn’t have to be party political or a left/right issue. They currently seem to be on the right path, but there is a lot more they need to do.

[downendcity]

16 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Another warning for anyone who thinks this is only affecting elderly and vulnerable people and that, if that does not apply to you, you'll be fine.

This woman is in her 30s, a regular gym goer and has no underlying health conditions:

 

There seems to have been a greater focus on deaths and from this it seems clear that by far the greater number dying are over 80 and suffering from one or more serious underlying health issues - I think Ive read that 99% of deaths are from this group.

Does this lead some younger people to mistakenly believe that 99% of people catching the virus are also from the same age group and that they are therefore unlikely to catch it?  My take is that younger people are just as likely to catch the virus, but much more likely to recover than would be a much older person.

 

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, bris red said:

Would be good knowing the percentage of fit and healthy 20/30 year olds that have been affected as badly as this woman has..

It would. I discussed this earlier up the thread but stats suggest the fatality rate for people with no underlying conditions is 0.9 out of every 100 cases (which is about 9 times more deaths than flu causes for all patients). This will include some people over 70, although a large number of people over 70 do have an underlying condition. I'd guess it could therefore be only 0.5 (so five times more deaths than flu causes for all patients) but that still would mean 1 out of every 200 cases for fit and healthy people ended in death. 

I can only find statistics for comparison in America but flu - which is thought to be less transmissable than Coronavirus - affects between 9.3 million and 45 million people in the US each year according to the CDC. If we assumed two thirds of those people were fit healthy and the 1 in 200 death rate was accurate, that would mean the same level of infection from coronavirus would cause 31, 000 to 150, 000 deaths in America amongst fit and healthy patients.

Clearly this does not include hospitalisations. Stats are hard to find but 40% of US hospital admissions for coronavirus have been between 20 and 55. There is no data on whether they had underlying health conditions. Anecdotally, these seem to be plenty of doctors in Italy saying that there are a number of serious cases involving young people with no underlying health conditions but there is no data available on what that number is. Something like 20% of coronavirus cases in total require hospitalisation but again we don't know how many of these were under 70 and had no underlying conditions.

There was one study reported this week which did put the fatality rate for people with no underlying conditions in Italy much lower - 0.05% - but this is not so far consistent with data across the rest of the world and is yet to be peer-reviewed so we do not know how sound the methodology is. It is also very unclear whether that includes people who did not know they had an underlying health condition before contracting the virus. The reality is that at least three of the underlying conditions that present a risk - heart conditions, high blood pressure and diabetes - are conditions where people with them can go a considerable amount of time before knowing there is a problem and seeking diagnosis.

I definitely agree a lot more information is needed but I think it is a massive risk for anyone to assume the virus will not affected them badly because they are young and not in a vulnerable group because, whilst the majority of young and non-vulnerable people are having minimal symptoms, there is enough evidence to suggest a large minority are experiencing more serious effects.

Incidentally there is another warning from a less serious case here, who still got hit a lot harder than he expected:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/20/dont-take-it-lightly-charlie-austin-says-he-has-acute-coronavirus-symptoms

On a final note, I had a Skype chat with a friend of mine who is self-isolating a couple of days ago. He would be considered a minor case but he was coughing so much that he was in agony, repeating things he'd told me two minutes earlier and, even as a minor case, not in a good shape. 

 

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, downendcity said:

There seems to have been a greater focus on deaths and from this it seems clear that by far the greater number dying are over 80 and suffering from one or more serious underlying health issues - I think Ive read that 99% of deaths are from this group.

Does this lead some younger people to mistakenly believe that 99% of people catching the virus are also from the same age group and that they are therefore unlikely to catch it?  My take is that younger people are just as likely to catch the virus, but much more likely to recover than would be a much older person.

 

See my post above - the 99% figure is drawn from one study in Italy and is yet to be checked in terms of its methodology. It puts the risk to younger people and without health conditions as much lower than some other studies - it gives a fatality rate of 0.05 deaths per 100 people who are young and healthy where as the fatality rate is estimated to be between 0.5 and 0.9 deaths per 100 people in other studies - but, in any case, I definitely agree that people are ignoring the fact that the are unlikely to die does not mean that:

a) they won't contract the disease

b) there is not a real risk of hospitalistion

c) there is not a real risk of scarring on the lungs or other permanent damage

d) things will get a lot more serious if you need hospitalisation and so many people are hospitalised there are not adequate beds.

You are definitely right that the evidence seems to be that younger people, including children, do catch and transmit the virus but have a lower mortality rate and hospitalisation rate than older people, people with underlying health conditions or young babies. They are more likely to recover but how likely to recover with minimal symptoms, is still up for debate. As I mention in my post above, 40% of US hospital admissions are younger patients for example.

It's quite right that people over 70 or with underlying health conditions have been warned they are more at risk and to take additional precautions to avoid the risk of catching the infection BUT I think this has led to a mistaken belief it does not matter if younger people get it.

The reality is that, up until the end of last week the government was pursuing a herd immunity strategy where older and more vulnerable people were effectively cut off from society to prevent infection and the virus was left free to circulate amongst everyone else so that enough people would gain immunity, and there was a willingness to allow 60% of the UK population to get it.

The reason why that strategy was abandoned seems to have been that data which emerged on Monday showed that, even if you took older and more vulnerable people out of the equation, the number of young or healthy people hospitalised or dying would overwhelm the NHS and still be a disaster. I think it is a major worry that a lot of younger people without underlying health conditions don't appreciate how serious this might get. 

[oldstandrobin]

11 hours ago, downendcity said:

Good news!

Can't remember the last time I had a phone call about "a recent car accident". 

Just had one yesterday as well. told him I was self isolating...............phone went dead !!

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

Just had one yesterday as well. told him I was self isolating...............phone went dead !!

Last time I had one of those calls I went quiet for a moment and then softly said "it wasn't an accident". They got a bit confused and scared and rang off. 

[One Team In Keynsham]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Last time I had one of those calls I went quiet for a moment and then softly said "it wasn't an accident". They got a bit confused and scared and rang off. 

I had one a few months ago. I let them get to "when did the accident take place?" and replied with "next Tuesday, I know that's when she goes to collect her pension."

[Galley is our king]

17 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Last time I had one of those calls I went quiet for a moment and then softly said "it wasn't an accident". They got a bit confused and scared and rang off. 

Had one a couple of months back, I said... Wow! Unbelievable, how on earth did you know? It only happened 2 weeks ago! Course I lost a leg, so just as well you rang because I need money, when can you send a cheque?

 

"click".....

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Never seen this before, what's it measuring? 

Movement around the city. London is a lot lower than normal but still way too high. Other major cities in the UK pretty similar to London 

Edited March 21, 2020 by And Its Smith

[mozo]

I don't have an issue with the phased approach of the move towards lockdown. But I have felt all along the government were too slow to get started and would have protected more people had they looked at what was going on and acted quickly. There was that pointless business as usual phase.

[East Londoner]

When he was mayor of London the thing Boris was good at was surrounding himself with people who knew their stuff, and he seems to be doing the same as prime minister but obviously having to consultant with several advisors is time consuming 

[Taz]

56 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Last time I had one of those calls I went quiet for a moment and then softly said "it wasn't an accident". They got a bit confused and scared and rang off. 

Last one I had, I played along for about 5 minutes, even getting passed onto the "higher power". You could virtually hear him rubbing his hands and counting the money as I laid it on really thick, saying about the emotional and physical anguish I was under. How it had caused me to lose my job, house, wife and family. Then he asked what the longterm effects would be....

"Well I lost both my arms, legs, broke my neck, back and was taken away from the scene in a few body bags."

He then had the cheek to say that I was wasting his time, to which I replied "good, less time for you to scam a vulnerable elderly person then you *horrible person you*"

Haven't had a phone call since. Shame really.

[lager loud]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Mezze @ Downend did a great “delivery” tonight.

Feel for local businesses, but some are changing their business models to try to get through this.  Will try and support as many as possible over the coming 12 weeks.

That’s good to know. I like the Mezze and have been trying to find out which restaurants are doing takeaways. Local pubs are, but I’m not the biggest fan of pub food so will mostly try to support them by buying their take out beer. 

On another note, one consolation of this situation is you’ll have time to study the HMHB back catalogue so you can enjoy their next concert even more than the recent one.  Was that really only a fortnight ago???

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, Taz said:

Last one I had, I played along for about 5 minutes, even getting passed onto the "higher power". You could virtually hear him rubbing his hands and counting the money as I laid it on really thick, saying about the emotional and physical anguish I was under. How it had caused me to lose my job, house, wife and family. Then he asked what the longterm effects would be....

"Well I lost both my arms, legs, broke my neck, back and was taken away from the scene in a few body bags."

He then had the cheek to say that I was wasting his time, to which I replied "good, less time for you to scam a vulnerable elderly person then you *horrible person you*"

Haven't had a phone call since. Shame really.

Another good one is to interrupt them and say `Before we get on to the accident, can I speak to you about how Jesus brings hope to the world?`

They usually hang up.

[Maesknoll Red]

I

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

Last time I had one of those calls I went quiet for a moment and then softly said "it wasn't an accident". They got a bit confused and scared and rang off. 

I had a spate of those calls a few months back, I confused one woman when I said, yes it was terrible, I died on the way to hospital, there was nothing they could do, she still tried to go through her script and then finally realised what I'd said......

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, lager loud said:

That’s good to know. I like the Mezze and have been trying to find out which restaurants are doing takeaways. Local pubs are, but I’m not the biggest fan of pub food so will mostly try to support them by buying their take out beer. 

On another note, one consolation of this situation is you’ll have time to study the HMHB back catalogue so you can enjoy their next concert even more than the recent one.  Was that really only a fortnight ago???

I’m gonna have to get Spotify or Apple Music - assume they are on there. 
I know, 2 weeks ago. Crazy really. 
Stay well!

[One Team In Keynsham]

2 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Another good one is to interrupt them and say `Before we get on to the accident, can I speak to you about how Jesus brings hope to the world?`

They usually hang up.

Reminds of a way a friend of mine handled Jeovah's Witnesses once. He greeted them with "thank God you're here", invited them in (which probably put them off-guard anyway), hurried them through to the kitchen, pointed at the cooker and said "there it is, how long do you need to fix it?". They made their apologies and scarpered.

[mozo]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m gonna have to get Spotify or Apple Music - assume they are on there. 
I know, 2 weeks ago. Crazy really. 
Stay well!

Yep, the whole back catalogue 

[Red Ferret]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

I don't have an issue with the phased approach of the move towards lockdown. But I have felt all along the government were too slow to get started and would have protected more people had they looked at what was going on and acted quickly. There was that pointless business as usual phase.

Completely agree. Everything that is happening now should have happened 2 to 3 weeks ago at least. 

We had a pre-warning from China and Italy on what was to come, and instead we pretended that nothing might happen to the UK and it should be "business as normal" . Idiotic. 

People are praising BJ for doing the right thing. But in my opinion he did the right thing but far far too late. He was reactive not proactive. 

[Gakoe]

11 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

All the ones that come home with handfuls of cash each day because they don't put hardly anything through the books you mean? 

What a silly statement. Have you ever been self employed? Do you work in construction? A lot of tradesmen have to be self employed to sign up for some crappy agency that take a percentage of their wage in order to give them work. It’s basically a continual cycle of zero hour contracts where one can be laid off at a moments notice. It’s a shitty way to live, there’s no handfuls of cash, no sick pay, no holiday pay, no respect but for a lot of skilled tradesmen that’s life. 

[bcfc01]

Lots of people with eyes in their arses on here knowing all the facts and data at any given time.

If only they were running the country...

[pillred]

3 hours ago, RedM said:

I have no idea, in all honesty with the amount of people on here I am interested in other peoples opinions and view points. I guess many still expect to walk into the shops and be served with no idea or understanding how the items get there and no thought to these places and staff. As mentioned it's very, very selfish out there.

Limiting the amount of people in shops at a given time would be a start, one in one out queuing system. 

LImiting payments to contactless only, or have only one cash till. 

Hand gel and wipes provided on entry and exit.

Maybe shops closing for an hour in the middle of the day to allow cleaning and restocking

Staff provided with gloves/handgel/masks

 

Just a few suggestions. Yours?

think what you have suggested just about covers it, but it doesn't seem to have made much difference re the restocking, selfish b****rds still seem to strip the shelves in minutes, I don't know if they are rigorously enforcing this certain number of everything, in Sainsburys yesterday at 10:30 the shelves were practically empty which means people become more anxious the next time they go out and over compensate, it's a difficult problem, until you and I are confident we will get what we want when we go out unfortunately it will carry on, perhaps rationing certain items is the only way for a short while.

Edited March 21, 2020 by pillred
Add comment

[havanatopia]

4 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I apologise. I had not realised there was still nothing being offered to self employed people. That is appalling and needs sorting out.

Do some fact checking; there is. Some will say not enough, some will always say that.

2 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

Just wish he'd raise tax that directly targets those who can afford it. It's now we need their wealth. 

I'm willing to pay more.

I am sure there will be plenty of time to tax us more in order to get past what will be a huge deficit in the budget; taxing people now is rather futile given that the majority in Britain are currently forced to quarantine and working from home is not viable.

[East Londoner]

Could be slightly encouraging news

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

Last time I had one of those calls I went quiet for a moment and then softly said "it wasn't an accident". They got a bit confused and scared and rang off. 

When you get the insurance call, it's always automated so you have to say 'yes' to get through to someone in the call centre - if you don't say anything or hang up, this has minimal cost on them. What you do afterwards (to waste their time and money) is up to you. I tend to say 'Hold on a minute, someone is at the door' then keep coming back on the call, to keep them holding until they catch on they are being messed around. This has a monetary cost to them i.e. they have someone on the call getting paid an hourly rate.

As to Microsoft scammers, I've had someone on the phone for over an hour in the past, stringing them along. In the end I got bored and started the old Norman Collier mic broken routine and hung up - they rang me back because they thought that had a 'mark', had to tell them to piss off in the end. Another one that is good after you get bored is to ask if it makes a difference that you've got a Mac.

Not so much common anymore is the double salesman calls. Order everything and then when it comes to paying etc., say that you'll see what your landlords says. Tends to illicit a rather poor response.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Taz said:

Last one I had, I played along for about 5 minutes, even getting passed onto the "higher power". You could virtually hear him rubbing his hands and counting the money as I laid it on really thick, saying about the emotional and physical anguish I was under. How it had caused me to lose my job, house, wife and family. Then he asked what the longterm effects would be....

"Well I lost both my arms, legs, broke my neck, back and was taken away from the scene in a few body bags."

He then had the cheek to say that I was wasting his time, to which I replied "good, less time for you to scam a vulnerable elderly person then you *horrible person you*"

Haven't had a phone call since. Shame really.

I had a accident 4 years ago which wrote off my car. 

Did I get a single phone call about my "recent accident"? 

Not on your life I didn't! 

[Odysseus]

1 hour ago, walnutroof said:

When he was mayor of London the thing Boris was good at was surrounding himself with people who knew their stuff, and he seems to be doing the same as prime minister but obviously having to consultant with several advisors is time consuming 

Every politician surrounds themselves with advisers. What you’ve said was just spin  to justify Johnson’s laziness as London Mayor and people ate it up. He was a useless Mayor who hastened London turning into the corporate playground that has no business being described as city or any kind of civilisation. 
 

Johnson’s outsourcing of political decisions to a couple of advisers like Cummings has worsened this disaster in having to be told by the UN to change our strategy. I think now they seem to be slowly making the correct decisions they should stay but after this is over Johnson should stand down as prime minister.

[mozo]

44 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Lots of people with eyes in their arses on here knowing all the facts and data at any given time.

If only they were running the country...

Good job we all had Italy, France and Spain to look to to make considered decisions.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BS2 Red said:

Experts have been saying for a long time that schools/pubs should be closed. He reacted way too late.

Some "experts" have indeed, some "experts" haven't. Are you saying then that (take Boris out of it for a moment), that we as a country have poor advisers advising the Government, and all the expert advisers who aren't advising them are in a better position without having all of the facts that contribute to each decision that changes by the hour? The trouble with this virus is so many people have differing opinions (and it is usually people without all the facts, the same as all of us). You can go searching news stories and find people saying schools should have been shut a month ago, and also find people saying they shouldn't be shut now. 

It is just too easy for anyone to find the information they want to hear to suit themselves, and have a dig, and vice versa.

[Odysseus]

48 minutes ago, pillred said:

think what you have suggested just about covers it, but it doesn't seem to have made much difference re the restocking, selfish b****rds still seem to strip the shelves in minutes, I don't know if they are rigorously enforcing this certain number of everything, in Sainsburys yesterday at 10:30 the shelves were practically empty which means people become more anxious the next time they go out and over compensate, it's a difficult problem, until you and I are confident we will get what we want when we go out unfortunately it will carry on, perhaps rationing certain items is the only way for a short while.

Shelves are bare because almost everyone is stockpiling in a way. I stockpiled by buying a couple more bags of dried beans than I needed. Aside from that I’m continuing to buy enough food for a couple of meals and that’s it. 
 

Shelves will be bare if for instance the 50% of people who usually don’t weekly shop, start to do a large shop. It only takes thousands of people buying a couple more items to have that knock on effect. So I think in a way people are turning on each other without really understanding basic maths.
 

We may as well saying anyone who shopped in bulk before this pandemic are selfish bastards too. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Odysseus

[Northern Red]

 

 

[RedorDead BCFC]

[RedorDead BCFC]

34 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

Could be slightly encouraging news

Hong Kong are reporting with all the returning holiday makers and business travellers that they may spike again. 

[RedorDead BCFC]

2 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Had one a couple of months back, I said... Wow! Unbelievable, how on earth did you know? It only happened 2 weeks ago! Course I lost a leg, so just as well you rang because I need money, when can you send a cheque?

 

"click".....

When I had one I said I’m glad they called because yes I had one. They took notes down then they asked me what injuries I sustained. I said decapitation, and could hear him tapping his computer and asked anything else, then it dawned on him and the phone went dead. 

[oldstandrobin]

11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Surely it takes a while for measures to feed through though? 

Thinking of London specifically. We only saw people really stop coming to work last week. We're a bit behind the curve. 

One particular concern I have is rich Londoners fleeing to second homes...given London is a, maybe the, hotspot here, this risks spreading it quite big.

Stick up a police cordon on the M5 just south of Clevedon......if they speak like Arfur Daley or have Arsenal/Tottenham/ Chelsea/ Millwall/Brentford etc furry dice hanging from rear view mirror, send em back ome. Spoken in jest Mr P as they will go into self iso and its only their butlers will be mingling with others down here. 

[Northern Red]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10-days-that-changed-britains-coronavirus-approach

[pillred]

7 minutes ago, Odysseus said:

Shelves are bare because almost everyone is stockpiling in a way. I stockpiled by buying a couple more bags of dried beans than I needed. Aside from that I’m continuing to buy enough food for a couple of meals and that’s it. 
 

Shelves will be bare if for instance the 50% of people who usually don’t weekly shop, start to do a large shop. It only takes thousands of people buying a couple more items to have that knock on effect. So I think in a way people are turning on each other without really understanding basic maths.
 

We may as well saying anyone who shopped in bulk before this pandemic are selfish bastards too. 

It wouldn't be so bad if after a big shop they then didn't shop again for a while, but I suspect that a lot of people are going way beyond that otherwise the shops would have been able to catch up by now, but if my experience of the last couple of days is anything to go by that's not the case. In my local shop I have not been able to buy certain item for nearly two weeks so certain people must have a house full of stuff as it's not a big community unless people from outside the village are coming in, perhaps it will have to come down to proving where you live to be able to shop in a certain store to ensure there is enough to go round not sure what else can be done.

[BS2 Red]

40 minutes ago, wood_red said:

Some "experts" have indeed, some "experts" haven't. Are you saying then that (take Boris out of it for a moment), that we as a country have poor advisers advising the Government, and all the expert advisers who aren't advising them are in a better position without having all of the facts that contribute to each decision that changes by the hour? The trouble with this virus is so many people have differing opinions (and it is usually people without all the facts, the same as all of us). You can go searching news stories and find people saying schools should have been shut a month ago, and also find people saying they shouldn't be shut now. 

It is just too easy for anyone to find the information they want to hear to suit themselves, and have a dig, and vice versa.

Well we were in a stage where the rest of the world’s experts were saying schools etc should be closed. Lots of British experts were also saying it. But the British government put its fingers in its ears and thought it knew better than everyone else. Actually that’s not fair, Trump’s America has done similar.

And then, a week too late imo, we had to shut the schools etc.

The government were listening to advice that was incorrectly modelled (using a less lethal disease) and wanted to go for herd immunity. Then they remodelled for the actual disease and realised their plan would kill hundreds of thousands.

Then they announce everything is to be shut but they’ll pay 80% of wages. But they don’t do the same for self-employed people? 

So yeah. The government has poor advisors. 

 

[Guest]

/rant

I like LH but really:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51987464

I find this 'don't worry, I"m Ok' media self-promotion inane (LH is not the only celeb who is doing this).
I feel sorry for the 'ordinary person' who is losing their job, having to continue to work because they have no choice, don't have that 'space' to isolate effectively, are vulnerable etc. - these people are invisible statistics with no face (so to speak) and, in my view, shit like this does little to reassure them.

Let's face it:
They don't influence the direction of this virus because it's invisible, it's indiscriminate and people are feeling damned vulnerable and scared.

Do something that is supportive rather than talking about yourselves FFS

rant over/

Edited March 21, 2020 by bcfcfinker

[One Team In Keynsham]

 

[cidercity1987]

Re self employed, thats the nature of the game. You take on the risk of business and benefit from a lower tax rate (NI) and claim expenses that no employed person could.

[BS2 Red]

7 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Re self employed, thats the nature of the game. You take on the risk of business and benefit from a lower tax rate (NI) and claim expenses that no employed person could.

This isn’t a normal situation. I’d probably agree if it was just a downturn in a particular area.

But this is far different and involves the government shutting things down and telling certain people not to work. 

The self employed need protection as well as the PAYE employed.

[Son of Fred]

11 hours ago, pillred said:

Pray enlighten us on how you would have handled it? you must have an alternative plan would love to hear it.

Where we are f@£ing up big time is nowhere near enough testing...

Not even testing NHS staff ff sake..

Not enough ppe & often it's not the gear they should be using.

The clocks ticking.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

All the ones that come home with handfuls of cash each day because they don't put hardly anything through the books you mean? 

 

4 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

This isn’t a normal situation. I’d probably agree if it was just a downturn in a particular area.

But this is far different and involves the government shutting things down and telling certain people not to work. 

The self employed need protection as well as the PAYE employed.

They don't if they are skilled tradesmen as they are all fraudsters according to the post above by that *****.

[Roger Red Hat]

28 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Re self employed, thats the nature of the game. You take on the risk of business and benefit from a lower tax rate (NI) and claim expenses that no employed person could.

Many many people who are self employed were forced into that situation to be able to earn. I was made redundant in mid 90's, the only way I could work in the business after said redundancy was to be self employed. Either that or not feed my family and pay the mortgage. Since the tories came to power, self employment has grown massively, a lot of it in low wage work, with little protection, and poor conditions.

 

https://paulmason.substack.com/p/self-employed-hung-out-to-dry?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0ODQ3MDI1LCJwb3N0X2lkIjozMjM2MTcsIl8iOiI2T1k4aSIsImlhdCI6MTU4NDc5NDczMCwiZXhwIjoxNTg0Nzk4MzMwLCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTk5OTgiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.Ypue04lcDZTlqtE4z_ZqeV4fUqX-TbbGjWr-1pi01hM

Edited March 21, 2020 by Roger Red Hat

[ScottishRed]

2 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Do some fact checking; there is. Some will say not enough, some will always say that.

I am sure there will be plenty of time to tax us more in order to get past what will be a huge deficit in the budget; taxing people now is rather futile given that the majority in Britain are currently forced to quarantine and working from home is not viable.

One option they have is to temporarily stop income tax and N.I. payments for everyone earning under a certain level and make this non- recoverable.

We are certainly going to have to pay increased tax going forward, as will be the case elsewhere but that is the least of our worries right now.

[BS2 Red]

25 minutes ago, wood_red said:

 

They don't if they are skilled tradesmen as they are all fraudsters according to the post above by that *****.

Yeah all skilled tradesmen are fraudsters.

And yes that’s sarcasm.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Quick question for any experts on this. Thinking IIRC @SX227 and @Dr Balls especially appear to know their stuff. 

How does this compare to the Spanish flu- any ideas? 1918-1919 in the main- should we treat it as seriously- as lethal?

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

So despite Italy being two weeks ahead of us we learnt nothing in those two weeks and are now tracking them. Great

[Lrrr]

This was in 2007....

[Harry]

47 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

If I get the virus I'll take my sleeping bag and move in to the garage. I'm not interested in participating in this muppett show.

Have you got a beer fridge in the garage? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Tbh @wood_red while I won't criticise the Government here, thes things do seem to follow a pattern. Ideally you want to get ahead of the curve.

Yet countries in a lot of cases seem to have followed a similar sequence of events. I see similarities elsewhere with Governments taking decisions too late, or dallying, or hesitating.

I'm not an expert at all but it feels to me that as a country ie a population, as a Government you have to be very quick out of the blocks when faced with this sort of thing. Have we been? Time will tell. I credit them for recent steps and am loathe to criticise, but I still have doubts. 

I look abroad at places far less equipped- Africa, plus in the subcontinent the big 3 of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and think 'Not at all quick enough'. Bits of Latin America too.

Interesting article on the patterns etc. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/01/is-britain-prepared-for-a-possible-coronavirus-pandemic-the-signs-are-not-good

This was written 1st March 2020 or maybe published then so say end of February.

[Guest]

@Mr PopodopolousMy point is you, or any of us don't know the huge knock on effect of every single decision made (small or big). All countries will have different things in place or not, be more well equipped or not. Just shutting schools 2, 3, 4 weeks ago would have had a massive knock on effect - it may seem like an easy decision now but back then their would be calculated risks for every decision made. 

I said in another post why didn't we just close the borders months ago (simple isn't it)? Stop flights/boats etc even coming in, unless every single person was tested and cleared? The answer is it just wasn't feasible imo, and if it would have happened everyone would be moaning it was way over the top with hardly any cases being reported here.

[downendcity]

51 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

2000 years since Christ. 3 generations per 100 years= 6 000  people and they are all dead. No one has complained. Now we are striked by a slight breeze. I don't give s shit. 

Well that's one person that won't be stockpiling loo paper! 

[bcfc01]

2 hours ago, wood_red said:

Some "experts" have indeed, some "experts" haven't. Are you saying then that (take Boris out of it for a moment), that we as a country have poor advisers advising the Government, and all the expert advisers who aren't advising them are in a better position without having all of the facts that contribute to each decision that changes by the hour? The trouble with this virus is so many people have differing opinions (and it is usually people without all the facts, the same as all of us). You can go searching news stories and find people saying schools should have been shut a month ago, and also find people saying they shouldn't be shut now. 

It is just too easy for anyone to find the information they want to hear to suit themselves, and have a dig, and vice versa.

It won't stop though.

Their "experts" are better than our "experts".

Of course they are.....

I'm glad we don't have the experts in some parts of Europe tbh - we'd be in a much worse state than we are at present.

Obviously its going to get worse - but that is to be expected. Some people think they have the solution from behind their keyboard but they don't, they're clueless same as all of us.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Quick question for any experts on this. Thinking IIRC @SX227 and @Dr Balls especially appear to know their stuff. 

How does this compare to the Spanish flu- any ideas? 1918-1919 in the main- should we treat it as seriously- as lethal?

Is there any difference to saying: How does this compare to the Black Death?

I believe that comparison is meaningless because the whole understanding of such conditions has changed, healthcare is fundamentally different, housing is different, communication is different, society is different etc.

The similarities are probably:
Invisible
Hard to defend against
It kills people
Transferred by proximity to infected people
Is causing fear, uncertainty, doubt and is leading to people to make irrational decisions
Decision paralysis
Proves to a certain extent that you can't rely on government to protect you
You have to look at what government is telling you and act accordingly. In a democracy, governments will do their best to provide guidance but it really is for individuals to act on it (all this shit looking to blame the current government for acting quickly etc. is about political point scoring and not about addressing the problem)
Etc.

Differences (talking UK):
Society is, supposedly, more educated
Healthcare is improved, universal and free at point of entry
More (on the whole) disposable income
TV, Internet, media outlets
Communication is easier
Vastly improved access to shops
The government safety net.
Socialisation, in the sense that due to more disposable income, we are mixing more
Etc.

What can be said to be a common factor is Globalisation:
Black Death probably happened as a consequence of world trading
Spanish flu came just after WW1 and people returning from conflicts elsewhere in the world
Coronavirus is happening due to the ease of travel