Vaccine Passport - Plan B

[big p]

3 minutes ago, lenred said:

Ok. Shan’t lost any sleep about what you think of me tbh

This is the problem I my eyes, it goes to show how irrelevant your views are. Sad! 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, big p said:

This is the problem I my eyes, it goes to show how irrelevant your views are. Sad! 

Oke doke. I’ve given my reasons above but evidently believing in science as opposed to that well renowned genius Bridgen isn’t good enough for you and your pals. Call me names all you want I really couldn’t care less what you think  

[James54De]

34 minutes ago, Harry said:

I see James54De hasn’t managed to find a shred of evidence to his quite extraordinary claim. We’re 3 days on from his post now. Is there any evidence at all for this 600% increase in hospitalisations in South Africa????

https://www.nicd.ac.za/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/NICD-COVID-19-Daily-Sentinel-Hospital-Surveillance-Report-National-20211213.pdf
 

From 687 in week 46, to 5.944 in week 49

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

Name the song. . . 

 

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Clearly, I know the answer otherwise I wouldn't have posted it, but I'm sure someone else will have a stab (or jab) at it!

 

I'll never get a scrumpy here.

That line is the highpoint of the song, really.

[TheReds]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

Oke doke. I’ve given my reasons above but evidently believing in science as opposed to that well renowned genius Bridgen isn’t good enough for you and your pals. Call me names all you want I really couldn’t care less what you think  

How do you know he isn't following the Science? Or is it only "your" Science that counts? There are hundreds of Scientists out there with different views on multiple parts of Covid and restrictions, are they all right because they "follow the Science"?

The Science tells me that 20 thousand people in a stadium who are all double jabbed showing a vaccine passport means nothing, there will be people carrying the virus into the stadium and no doubt passing it on to other double jabbed people who in turn go and mix with other people when they leave, go to pubs, go on public transport, go back home etc etc. Why not have every person show a negative test instead?

That is me following the Science - please tell me where I am wrong.

[TonyTonyTony]

38 minutes ago, Harry said:

How old was the person. 
What gender were they. 
What was their ethnicity. 
What was their weight - including BMI. 
Did they have any other serious conditions. 
Were they diabetic. 
Were they asthmatic. 
Had they received a vaccine. 
How many. Which brand. 
When was their last vaccine administered. 
When were they admitted to hospital. 
Did they present at hospital for another reason and were subsequently tested positive, or did they present at hospital with covid. If other, what did they present with and when did they become positive. 
Were they transferred to ICU. 
How long were they in ICU. 
What other treatments were administered. 

You want all of this information from an Individual available openly to the public, yet at the same time you object in being asked to show a QR code that basically says yes or no (covid passport) ?

Extremely muddled thinking

 

 

[CyderInACan]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'll never get a scrumpy here.

That line is the highpoint of the song, really.

Aye, but what a lyric though 

[Harry]

11 minutes ago, James54De said:

https://www.nicd.ac.za/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/NICD-COVID-19-Daily-Sentinel-Hospital-Surveillance-Report-National-20211213.pdf
 

From 687 in week 46, to 5.944 in week 49

Ok. So you meant over a 4 week period. You hadn’t made that specific part of the data clear from your prior post. 
Well done and thank you for clarifying. Could’ve done that 3 days ago though when you were first challenged on it, rather than pretending you had some insider information that no one else had. 

4 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

You want all of this information from an Individual available openly to the public, yet at the same time you object in being asked to show a QR code that basically says yes or no (covid passport) ?

Extremely muddled thinking

 

 

Is there anything in that information which would allow you to identify the individual? 
No. Therefore, no data breach. 
 

Are you against full data / information to allow an informed opinion then TripleT? 

[TheReds]

2 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

You want all of this information from an Individual available openly to the public, yet at the same time you object in being asked to show a QR code that basically says yes or no (covid passport) ?

Extremely muddled thinking

 

 

You won't have any details of any individual though?

I think the basic hospitalisation data should be public. How many are going to hospital because of Covid, and how many are severely ill and have to stay in for x amount of days. I read a few weeks ago regarding the 900 average per day being hospitalised that only 300 were staying overnight. That should be known to the public. Also how many of the hospitalised are unvaccinated but cannot be vaccinated due to their health.

[LoyalRed]

8 minutes ago, TheReds said:

How do you know he isn't following the Science? Or is it only "your" Science that counts? There are hundreds of Scientists out there with different views on multiple parts of Covid and restrictions, are they all right because they "follow the Science"?

The Science tells me that 20 thousand people in a stadium who are all double jabbed showing a vaccine passport means nothing, there will be people carrying the virus into the stadium and no doubt passing it on to other double jabbed people who in turn go and mix with other people when they leave, go to pubs, go on public transport, go back home etc etc. Why not have every person show a negative test instead?

That is me following the Science - please tell me where I am wrong.

Apparently the 3rd Booster shot prevents you from likely catching covid or passing it on.

[TheReds]

1 minute ago, LoyalRed said:

Apparently the 3rd Booster shot prevents you from likely catching covid or passing it on.

Is that until we all need the 4th jab for super duper protection.

[Bristol Rob]

16 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Aye, but what a lyric though 

It's not a classic though. 

[LoyalRed]

12 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Is that until we all need the 4th jab for super duper protection.

"You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave" (the country that is)

[CyderInACan]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

It's not a classic though. 

Not far off 

[MarcusX]

On 11/12/2021 at 19:12, BrizzleRed said:

You’d be an ideal person to answer a question I’ve had for a long time then.  

We know all the Covid deaths are announced as ‘being within 28 days of a positive covid test’.  Now if someone had a positive test and were recovering well, but within 28 days they got run over by a bus, would they still be counted as a covid related death?

The died within 28 days count, and the death certificate count are two different records.

The death certificate count is much higher, as is the excess deaths

[whooosh]

7 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

It's not a classic though. 

 

25 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Aye, but what a lyric though 

 

I'LL NEVER GET A SCRUMPY HERE

Now old jolly Jack was a hardworkin' chap,  And he longed for the chance to be free, Stuck a pin in the map as it laid on his lap,  And he stuck it in gay Paree. It were quite by chance that he heard of France,  'Cos he'd never been away before, He was straight off the boat, with his ten-bob note,  When his heart fell through the floor. Chorus: Oh, I'll never get a scrumpy here No, I'll never get a nice mild beer Give me England every time, my dear 'Cos you never get surprises livin' in Devizes However hard I bloomin' try Seems I'll never get a hot meat pie In old Somerset's where I'll die When I die.....   So he made his way, in complete dismay,  Where the folks all goes at night, And standing there was a girl so fair,  Her eyes were shinin' bright Put 'is hand in his pocket, and it felt like a rocket,  Glowin' in his hand like a flame So he winked his eye, and she give a cry,  "Have you chicken?" "No, I'm game!"

[eardun]

Ignoring Plan B for a minute, given the rate at which Omicron is spreading, there’s got to be a high likelihood that some of City’s matches will end up being postponed in the near future given how players mix together. Matches are already being called off elsewhere of course. Plus more fans will be isolating and will miss matches. So showing vaccine passports may be the least of our worries re match attendance. 

[bbew]

2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

All year we didn't have the new variant.

Viruses change so the science changes and the advice changes.

Remember a few years back we were all told that diesel cars were what we should be buying...

The trouble with this analogy is that anyone with any sense at the time new that diesel cars were not particularly good for the environment. 

It is hardly therefore a shock the change of attitudes to diesel cars now, likewise it is hardly a shock there is a new variant, it is hardly a shock the NHS is extremely busy in winter, it won't be a shock there will be a new variant in the future, and it won't be a shock that the NHS will be massively busy next winter.  Some people were saying 5 months ago that the NHS having 5,000 fewer beds this winter is not the best idea, but lets wait until it rains until we buy an umbrella.   

[Harry]

6 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Harry, you understand the following, Right to Privacy and Dignity in Death. 

The questions you ask aren't for public edification to scratch, your posts itch. 

Anything identifiable would be a breach of that. 

Perhaps you may want to reassess your diatribe. 

What is identifiable in the data I’ve asked for? 
If you don’t believe in full and transparent data then you are happy for only a certain narrative to be portrayed and therefore encourage conspiratorial narratives to take hold. 

[Eddie Hitler]

6 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Harry, you understand the following, Right to Privacy and Dignity in Death. 

The questions you ask aren't for public edification to scratch, your posts itch. 

Anything identifiable would be a breach of that. 

Perhaps you may want to reassess your diatribe. 

 

You can anonymise the data and not release it until it's into the tens of thousands so that nobody is identifiable.

Instead we are expected to take the vague definition of death "with" Covid as being a Covid death.

This is why the only really meaningful stats are variations from average death rates owing to the absence of any other usable data.

[TonyTonyTony]

57 minutes ago, Harry said:

Is there anything in that information which would allow you to identify the individual? 
No. Therefore, no data breach. 
 

Are you against full data / information to allow an informed opinion then TripleT? 

Public health will have such information, and interpret the data. Anything of relevance from that for the general public to be aware of would be shared. 

You might find some of the data that you seek is available from the ONS, but you might have to dig a bit

Edited December 14, 2021 by TonyTonyTony

[Harry]

1 minute ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Public health will have such information, and interpret the data. Anything of relevance from that for the general public to be aware of would be shared. 

You might find some of the data that you seek is available from the ONS, but you might have to dig a bit

Public health will have such information, and interpret the data. Anything of relevance from that for the general public to be aware of would be shared. 

You might find some of the data that you seek is available from the ONS, but you might have to dig a bit

It’s not. I’ve looked. Regardless. It should be shared visibly - in the media. Not hidden away. That’s what my use of the word transparent means. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Harry

[Waconda]

30 minutes ago, eardun said:

Ignoring Plan B for a minute, given the rate at which Omicron is spreading, there’s got to be a high likelihood that some of City’s matches will end up being postponed in the near future given how players mix together. Matches are already being called off elsewhere of course. Plus more fans will be isolating and will miss matches. So showing vaccine passports may be the least of our worries re match attendance. 

Will will be in lockdown in January post everyone spending their money for Xmas and New Year.

Even if (as seems likely) Omicron is milder than the previous variants, the increased rate of infection and therefore the numbers infected in a short period of time will lead to thousands needing hospital care, less people needing oxygen and dyeing probably but still needing to be admitted and cared for in hospital beds.

When they say "we currently have no plans for a lock down" you can be sure they are planning to do just that.

Football will not be operating in January - IMO

 

[Rebounder]

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

And you can’t get a PCR test either currently 

Showing as avaliable for me? Currently waiting on a result after test on Sunday.... 

[eardun]

7 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Will will be in lockdown in January post everyone spending their money for Xmas and New Year.

Even if (as seems likely) Omicron is milder than the previous variants, the increased rate of infection and therefore the numbers infected in a short period of time will lead to thousands needing hospital care, less people needing oxygen and dyeing probably but still needing to be admitted and cared for in hospital beds.

When they say "we currently have no plans for a lock down" you can be sure they are planning to do just that.

Football will not be operating in January - IMO

 

Hopefully not a lockdown, but clearly it will all depend on how well the boosters perform against Omicron. 

[CyderInACan]

12 minutes ago, Rebounder said:

Showing as avaliable for me? Currently waiting on a result after test on Sunday.... 

Good - seems availability is now back to normal having just checked too 

[MarcusX]

On 13/12/2021 at 09:08, Riaz said:

You are a conspiracy theorist if you think for yourself and dont believe EVERYTHING you are told.

Most that I know see "think for themselves" at make up stuff that isn't true or doesnt make sense because it MIGHT be possible in their head. Much like your infertility predictions that hasn't materialised yet 

On 13/12/2021 at 09:44, 2015 said:

It is rather funny that those who despise the Tories on here and despise Boris Johnson yet still go along with every restriction he puts in place and his 'opposition' support him in doing so. 

I don't believe a word any politician or scientist come out with anymore - they are all corrupted by power, personal agenda's and money in my opinion.

This is pretty silly. I cant speak for everyone but I;m pretty sure most of us act on what we believe is the right thing to do to protect people - not what Boris tells me to do.

Edited December 14, 2021 by MarcusX

[MarcusX]

On 13/12/2021 at 12:10, Eddie Hitler said:

 

This has happened with influenza every year for centuries.

This idea that Covid rewrites all the rules is simply wrong; it is merely the most recent human virus.

It could equally have been Covid that we had for centuries and then influenza crops up.

Covid is just another virus which a more sensible society would simply learn to live with rather than being the new bogey man to terrify the simple.

140k more people died than a normal year, with 6 months spent in lockdown - it would likely have been many, many more if we'd "learned to live with it" whatever that might mean

Not sure you're "I follow the science" stands up to scrutiny here

[Eddie Hitler]

6 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

140k more people died than a normal year, with 6 months spent in lockdown - it would likely have been many, many more if we'd "learned to live with it" whatever that might mean

Not sure you're "I follow the science" stands up to scrutiny here

 

The difference was that there is a long-established safe vaccine for influenza and initially there wasn't one at all for Covid.

Now that the elderly and vulnerable, plus anyone else who wants it, are vaccinated then yes we should simply learn to live with Covid and produce vaccines tailored to each strain as happens for 'flu vaccine.

 

I don't think people are being obtuse here but rather reading what they want to read rather than what is actually written; which brings me back to this being a "polarised debate" rather than a sensible one.

[MarcusX]

5 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

The difference was that there is a long-established safe vaccine for influenza and initially there wasn't one at all for Covid.

Now that the elderly and vulnerable, plus anyone else who wants it, are vaccinated then yes we should simply learn to live with Covid and produce vaccines tailored to each strain as happens for 'flu vaccine.

 

I don't think people are being obtuse here but rather reading what they want to read rather than what is actually written; which brings me back to this being a "polarised debate" rather than a sensible one.

But you wanted the vaccine to go through 5 year trials. So would you have been happy with 5 years of lockdowns until we had a "fully tested" vaccine so that we could then live with it?

I dont see what you think should have happened differently, that wouldn't have resulted in many, many more deaths?