Poor Old Everton

[Bristol Rob]

34 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

IF they did come down, how would they stand ref EFL FFP rules and their enormous EPL debt (£230M isn't it)? Would they be in immediate contravention of the EFL rules so get an embargo?

I thought there was a period of adjustment before clubs had to be compliant.

Or is that the drop from the Championship to Leagues One and Two?

[CyderInACan]

3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I thought there was a period of adjustment before clubs had to be compliant.

Or is that the drop from the Championship to Leagues One and Two?

There's no FFP in leagues 1 & 2, isn't there? 

[Ska Junkie]

6 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I thought there was a period of adjustment before clubs had to be compliant.

Or is that the drop from the Championship to Leagues One and Two?

There would have to be some absolutely stunning cost cutting if their debt is so high in the Prem.

Maybe, they would do a 'Newcastle' and enjoy 1 year at this level but, with that annual debt, they could just as easily do a 'Leeds' and drop again?

2 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

There's no FFP in leagues 1 & 2, isn't there? 

SCMP isn't it?

My understanding, probably wrong, is that FFP is based on turnover while SCMP is based on income. Happy to be enlightened though.

@Davefevs?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Ska Junkie

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

There would have to be some absolutely stunning cost cutting if their debt is so high in the Prem.

Maybe, they would do a 'Newcastle' and enjoy 1 year at this level but, with that annual debt, they could just as easily do a 'Leeds' and drop again?

SCMP isn't it?

My understanding, probably wrong, is that FFP is based on turnover while SCMP is based on income. Happy to be enlightened though.

@Davefevs?

I’d probably summarise as

- FFP (PL) based on profit and loss

- P&S (Champ) based on profit and loss

- SCMP (Lg1/2) based on wages as a percentage on turnover 

[Ska Junkie]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’d probably summarise as

- FFP (PL) based on profit and loss

- P&S (Champ) based on profit and loss

- SCMP (Lg1/2) based on wages as a percentage on turnover 

Where does that leave Everton if they come down Dave? Even with the Prem riches and still that level of debt, I suggest they would have huge issues?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Ska Junkie

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

I've got nothing against Everton other than it'll be a great fixture for us like Newcastle/Villa/West Ham in the recent past.

Lampard has never been that likeable but I mainly want him to fail as I seriously think he is a very poor manager (especially tactically) getting jobs on his name.

Frank Lampard Jr has taken charge of 153 matches, winning 72, drawing 47 and losing 34 for a win percentage of 47 1%. They are not the statistics of a bad manager and he must have been tactically astute somewhere along the line. 

[supercidered]

57 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

I've got nothing against Everton other than it'll be a great fixture for us like Newcastle/Villa/West Ham in the recent past.

Lampard has never been that likeable but I mainly want him to fail as I seriously think he is a very poor manager (especially tactically) getting jobs on his name.

Having the misfortune of attending games versus Newcastle and Villa relatively recently their fans were obnoxious at best. Self righteous bell sniffs of the highest order in the same mould as Leeds fans.

The Lampard thing really grinds my gears because of the whole Frank Lampard's Derby thing. Media in general were pretty much knocking one out over it all. However, look at all the loanees he had at his disposal and he still failed.

Liked him as a player but he now just irritates me. 

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Where does that leave Everton if they come down Dave? Even with the Prem riches and still that level of debt, I suggest they would have huge issues?

Instead of having 3 years of £35m (total £105m) losses, they would have 2 @ £35m and 1 @ £13m (total £83m) minus allowables.

It is a bit more complicated because we are in this covid impacted cycle where 2 of the years count as one (summed and halved).

So for the cycle ending 2022/23, it would be:

£35m + £35m + £35m + £13m = £118m * 3/4 = £88.5m

[Ska Junkie]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Instead of having 3 years of £35m (total £105m) losses, they would have 2 @ £35m and 1 @ £13m (total £83m) minus allowables.

It is a bit more complicated because we are in this covid impacted cycle where 2 of the years count as one (summed and halved).

So for the cycle ending 2022/23, it would be:

£35m + £35m + £35m + £13m = £118m * 3/4 = £88.5m

Doesn't sit well when losing £230M with Premier league riches then?

Could they conceivably start on a minus number if they did come down?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Ska Junkie

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

Doesn't sit well when losing £230M with Premier league riches then?

Could they conceivably start on a minus number if they did come down?

And we’ve not seen this season’s yet

[Silvio Dante]

5 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Frank Lampard Jr has taken charge of 153 matches, winning 72, drawing 47 and losing 34 for a win percentage of 47 1%. They are not the statistics of a bad manager and he must have been tactically astute somewhere along the line. 

I’d beg to differ.

He had Derby who we know at the time were chugging along looking to cheat FFP and had Mount, Tomori and Harry Wilson as loanees. It’s fair to say he had a very significant good hand squad wise and probably fell below what he should have with the resources at disposal.

He then had one of the biggest clubs in the country where minimum expectations are top four and took them to 10th. A higher win percentage than given would be expected.

This is the first job where he’s got an underperforming squad and no inbuilt advantage by way of income and squad quality from others. And he’s ballsing it up big style.

I posted a few days ago that Lampard was a very unintelligent player. He’s equally an unintelligent manager and isn’t really showing to be tactically astute. I expect this to be his last job in the game.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’d beg to differ.

He had Derby who we know at the time were chugging along looking to cheat FFP and had Mount, Tomori and Harry Wilson as loanees. It’s fair to say he had a very significant good hand squad wise and probably fell below what he should have with the resources at disposal.

He then had one of the biggest clubs in the country where minimum expectations are top four and took them to 10th. A higher win percentage than given would be expected.

This is the first job where he’s got an underperforming squad and no inbuilt advantage by way of income and squad quality from others. And he’s ballsing it up big style.

I posted a few days ago that Lampard was a very unintelligent player. He’s equally an unintelligent manager and isn’t really showing to be tactically astute. I expect this to be his last job in the game.

Isn't it amazing how many 'unintelligent' players had phenomenal careers, amassed fortunes and have a remarkable talent for self promotion. David Beckham, Ashley Cole, Wayne Rooney and, now according to you, Frank Lampard Junior. Given their records not just for their clubs but for England I'd be more worried about the intelligence of football managers who constantly selected them and club owners who paid them vast sums than the players themselves. They weren't so dumb as to not accept the accolades and wealth that came their way. 

[daored]

Big weekend:

Saturday

Everton v man utd

Watford v Leeds 

Sunday:

Norwich v Burnley 

quite possible Everton could be in bottom three on Sunday and level on points with Watford (but with better GD)

[Silvio Dante]

9 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Isn't it amazing how many 'unintelligent' players had phenomenal careers, amassed fortunes and have a remarkable talent for self promotion. David Beckham, Ashley Cole, Wayne Rooney and, now according to you, Frank Lampard Junior. Given their records not just for their clubs but for England I'd be more worried about the intelligence of football managers who constantly selected them and club owners who paid them vast sums than the players themselves. They weren't so dumb as to not accept the accolades and wealth that came their way. 

I think you’re misinterpreting the difference between football intelligence and actual intelligence.

I didn’t mention Cole, Rooney, Beckham - and I’d actually say they had good on pitch intelligence, so not sure why you’re bringing them up. Lampard may be the most intelligent man in the world and savvy in person/business and good luck to him. As a player, he played well in one system for Chelsea and, fair play to him, made a lot of money and success off it. He was, however, a big reason why the golden generation underachieved for England, again - not his fault more Sven etc for picking him, but he didn’t have the football intelligence to adapt to a non Chelsea system and it made other players less.

As a manager, it’s difficult to make the case he’s done anything other than not meet expectations across the board when you consider his resources. That doesn’t make him an unintelligent man, that probably does make him an unintelligent manager.

I stand by - I expect him to get sacked and nobody to take a punt on him again because, frankly, his record is poor as a boss. 

[southside]

20 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

I thought there was a period of adjustment before clubs had to be compliant.

Or is that the drop from the Championship to Leagues One and Two?

If they do drop into the Championship they'll get a "there there never mind here's a shit load of dosh" 

[DaveF]

16 hours ago, Davefevs said:

And we’ve not seen this season’s yet

If they did come down they've got some very valuable players they would no doubt sell for a fortune to make ends meet. Just had a look through their squad and its mad they're not top 10!

[Show Me The Money!]

16 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’d beg to differ.

He had Derby who we know at the time were chugging along looking to cheat FFP and had Mount, Tomori and Harry Wilson as loanees. It’s fair to say he had a very significant good hand squad wise and probably fell below what he should have with the resources at disposal.

He then had one of the biggest clubs in the country where minimum expectations are top four and took them to 10th. A higher win percentage than given would be expected.

This is the first job where he’s got an underperforming squad and no inbuilt advantage by way of income and squad quality from others. And he’s ballsing it up big style.

I posted a few days ago that Lampard was a very unintelligent player. He’s equally an unintelligent manager and isn’t really showing to be tactically astute. I expect this to be his last job in the game.

Other than all that he’s doing ok :laugh:

[Show Me The Money!]

2 hours ago, southside said:

If they do drop into the Championship they'll get a "there there never mind here's a shit load of dosh" 

Even then they are in the financial shit. A lot of the players will leave and they’ll have to try and rebuild with no money. They aren’t prepared like a Burnley or Norwich or Watford for coming down to the championship then going straight back up again. I think they could go down to league 1. Everton are my 2nd team as well, as if supporting City wasn’t bad enough

[Ska Junkie]

40 minutes ago, DaveF said:

If they did come down they've got some very valuable players they would no doubt sell for a fortune to make ends meet. Just had a look through their squad and its mad they're not top 10!

Not sure about the 'fortune' bit as other clubs will know they HAVE to sell, surely the prospective purchaser will play on that?

[Glen hump]

I wonder if Everton have been clever enough to put relegation clauses in their players contracts, If they haven’t they could be in big trouble.

[Ska Junkie]

7 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

I wonder if Everton have been clever enough to put relegation clauses in their players contracts, If they haven’t they could be in big trouble.

You would have thought that would be standard for all clubs wouldn't you?

I wonder if the really big boys do?

[Colemanballs]

3 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Everton are my 2nd team as well, as if supporting City wasn’t bad enough

I hope they go down. No issue with Everton, but (and you think you've got it bad) Burnley are my second team. Relatives from that neck of the woods, the first ever live game I attended was at Turf Moor when they beat Sunderland to gain promotion to the old first division in the early 1970s.  Bristol City and Burnley. What did I do in my previous life to deserve this?

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, Glen hump said:

I wonder if Everton have been clever enough to put relegation clauses in their players contracts, If they haven’t they could be in big trouble.

No they didn't, according to Price of football podcast.

[Loosey Boy]

I do hope FLs Everton go down - be a great weekend away in Liverpool

[Shaun Taylor]

Looking at Burnleys fixtures I can't see them picking up many points either

[sticks 1969]

2 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Looking at Burnleys fixtures I can't see them picking up many points either

I think the bottom 3 will stay the same 

 

[Shaun Taylor]

2 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

I think the bottom 3 will stay the same 

 

That's the way I see it with Everton scraping a few points to keep them up

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 07/04/2022 at 10:17, TonyTonyTony said:

Liverpool fans used to call him Fwankie Lumplard, which was very harsh. I expect another essay from @BS4 on Tour... over analysing that one

Course they did “Tony x3” ...

[cider-manc]

Don't normally have a preference on who comes down. But I would like to get to goodison before they knock it down.

And for what it's worth... my mate worked at Chelsea tv for years. He tells me Lampard was an arrogant arsehole and he never understood the public perception that he was one of the nice guys.

[MarcusX]

On 07/04/2022 at 15:40, supercidered said:

I think it will be very tight but Everton will stay up.

I've always thought of Everton as a bit of a meh club. They just don't bother me.

The only time I want them to win is to shut up the tedious never been out of the South West Liverpool 'fans' and I can't even remember when that last was!

Do people dislike them more because of Lamps?

 

 

On 07/04/2022 at 10:26, Taz said:

Would add numbers to the gate when we play them though, as all the local Liverpool fans will want to watch them and gloat.

Actually hope that they don't come down - can imagine the Liverpool fans comments on social media, it would be like them winning the league again. We'd never hear the last of it!!

Never understand the obsession with Liverpool fans? Maybe it’s an age/generation thing? 
 

All clubs have idiots as fans, and most are as bad as each other