Points lost from winning positions

[2015]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

We’ll see come the end of the season, but I’d expect all 3 of those you mention to be in the top 12. Whereas I’d expect the majority of the 6 teams we’ve played so far to be in the bottom 12. 
I wouldn’t have thought that it was a point of contention that the fixtures we’ve had so far have been rather kind. 

I think you are being harsh on Hull. They've started very well against the teams they've faced. Too early to say where teams will finish imo

[spudski]

There are many positives to take from the way we are performing this season...many...it's a joy to watch us playing football. I think everyone would agree with that.

But to use 'it's an open league' or 'others are losing'...isn't really an argument.

All the good work we've done, is again undone by negative tactics after taking the lead and more individual errors. This has been going on a long time. So nothing new. 

For all the good work...it's undone by the same glaring decisions.

We brought King on, and we became slow, lethargic, on the back foot...which we know is our Achilles heal. So many times in the last minutes we've conceded. There's no smoke without fire. 

The substitutions imo could be far more positive. Scott playing in his best position for example. 

Imo...our substitutions/tactics and decision making when leading could be far more positive. We don't play to our strengths. We play to our weakness after leading.

Now that's where I see NP, his staff and players on the pitch could improve on.

We are hopeless at defending a lead...knowing that...keep playing the same way that got you in the lead in the first place.

It's not rocket science. 

 

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

He was the perfect image the club wanted at that time. Young, said the right things and was perfect for the younger age group of our support. 

The problem was he had a massive ego and wasn't as clever as he thought he was. 

I trust Pearson, we have slowly improved under him and on what budget? Not a lot. At least I go to games now expecting to be entertained too

Exactly. It’s taken a lot of work by Pearson to get bums back on a seat. 
 

He took over a basket case club and turned it around over 18 months with free transfers and giving kids their chance. Is everything going to go well all the time, of course not, but I don’t see anything that is significant in this division, we have chances if we can convert a higher percentage and keep concentrating until the last whistle. Hopefully while holding on to our youngsters. 
 

The original poster’s obsession with Johnson is something I switched him off for ages ago. Any thing he posts is just a derivative of that!

[ExiledAjax]

We do what we do.

[Davefevs]

Being a man of numbers…how do you really square off these things.  It always sits a bit funny with me about the legitimacy of this type of scoring things.

Do you take our couple of 2-0s and say we won from drawing positions?  Do you only count results when they change, when you go ahead?  Do we get credit for being ahead 1-0 in both and going on to secure another goal / 3 points in each.

Do we take today and see that we came from behind twice 0-1, 1-2?

In a sport where the result can flip-flop within the 90m I find these things can highlight things with an excessive slant one way or the other.

Its why when I do my player “stuff” I take the game-state when they enter the pitch and when the exit it.

 

[stephenkibby.]

Just now, Harry said:

We’ll see come the end of the season, but I’d expect all 3 of those you mention to be in the top 12. Whereas I’d expect the majority of the 6 teams we’ve played so far to be in the bottom 12. 
I wouldn’t have thought that it was a point of contention that the fixtures we’ve had so far have been rather kind. 

True, but how many times through the years have you looked at a set of fixtures, and thought we should win most of these. Or can't see where the next point is coming from and it rarely in this league works out like that.

[GrahamC]

We also gained a point from a losing position today, as well.

[2015]

A point in this League is not to be sniffed at either. We lost 3-1 at Blackpool 6 months ago.

Every game is difficult

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

There are many positives to take from the way we are performing this season...many...it's a joy to watch us playing football. I think everyone would agree with that.

But to use 'it's an open league' or 'others are losing'...isn't really an argument.

All the good work we've done, is again undone by negative tactics after taking the lead and more individual errors. This has been going on a long time. So nothing new. 

For all the good work...it's undone by the same glaring decisions.

We brought King on, and we became slow, lethargic, on the back foot...which we know is our Achilles heal. So many times in the last minutes we've conceded. There's no smoke without fire. 

The substitutions imo could be far more positive. Scott playing in his best position for example. 

Imo...our substitutions/tactics and decision making when leading could be far more positive. We don't play to our strengths. We play to our weakness after leading.

Now that's where I see NP, his staff and players on the pitch could improve on.

We are hopeless at defending a lead...knowing that...keep playing the same way that got you in the lead in the first place.

It's not rocket science. 

 

Did we really become slow and lethargic from the moment King came on in the 88th minute?  Or were were a bit slow and lethargic in the period before?  That’s some influence if so!

[GrahamC]

Just now, stephenkibby. said:

True, but how many times through the years have you looked at a set of fixtures, and thought we should win most of these. Or can't see where the next point is coming from and it rarely in this league works out like that.

Spot on.

No one in the whole country had Reading being top after 6 games.

It is an incredibly unpredictable division, every week there are results (QPR at Watford today) that no one would predict.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Being a man of numbers…how do you really square off these things.  It always sits a bit funny with me about the legitimacy of this type of scoring things.

Do you take our couple of 2-0s and say we won from drawing positions?  Do you only count results when they change, when you go ahead?  Do we get credit for being ahead 1-0 in both and going on to secure another goal / 3 points in each.

Do we take today and see that we came from behind twice 0-1, 1-2?

In a sport where the result can flip-flop within the 90m I find these things can highlight things with an excessive slant one way or the other.

Its why when I do my player “stuff” I take the game-state when they enter the pitch and when the exit it.

 

As I posted

If we were conceding first , those so inclined would be saying

’We can’t keep giving sides a goal start’

 

 

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Did we really become slow and lethargic from the moment King came on in the 88th minute?  Or were were a bit slow and lethargic in the period before?  That’s some influence if so!

Either way, was it a good substitution?

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

We also gained a point from a losing position today, as well.

Twice 

And we only gave the lead away Once

So a positive outcome

Nothing to see here

[Coxy27]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

So, because we’ve played ok in spells, everything is rosy and we’re not allowed to be critical? 

Indeed. Very impressive. 

Got nothing to do with Johnson and I do actually like Pearson a lot. So I’m not sure why you’d think that. But I guess if you have me on ignore you won’t read this. 

No. It means that in the last 2 years we had shite players who I had no affinity to. Therefore when we lost games, I was of course disappointed, but being critical was pointless, because half the players couldn’t give a shit about the shirt and thus it wasn’t as frustrating because there wasn’t much that we could do to remedy things. 
Now that there are some positive signs, and the squad has a lot more players who I feel are ‘buying-in’ then it’s a tad more frustrating that we’re letting things slip. 
 

Surely there is a place for being critical when we’ve dropped 10 points from winning positions against teams who are on our level. Or are we not allowed to critique anything? 
 

As I’ve explained, I see positive signs. But there are mistakes occurring - why are we not allowed to discuss this? 

You are making it a bigger deal than it is though, and I feel like you know that.

Blackpool and Sunderland, we were also losing. So is that 2 points gained or 4 points dropped?

You're choosing the latter.

[Harry]

3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Exactly. It’s taken a lot of work by Pearson to get bums back on a seat. 
 

He took over a basket case club and turned it around over 18 months with free transfers and giving kids their chance. Is everything going to go well all the time, of course not, but I don’t see anything that is significant in this division, we have chances if we can convert a higher percentage and keep concentrating until the last whistle. Hopefully while holding on to our youngsters. 
 

The original poster’s obsession with Johnson is something I switched him off for ages ago. Any thing he posts is just a derivative of that!

Well, again you won’t see this if you have me on ignore, but ..

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with LJ? Why even bring his name into this thread. It’s got bollox-all to do with him. Very strange behaviour to say that I have an obsession for LJ when I haven’t even mentioned him, whereas it seems it’s YOU that has an obsession with me having an apparent obsession! Weirdo. 
 

As I’ve said, there are lots of positives in this season so far, which is why the mistakes I’m seeing are all the more frustrating. It’s got bigger all to do with LJ. Get over yourself. 

[Major Isewater]

48 minutes ago, Harry said:

Is now up to 10. 
3 v Hull. 
3 v Sunderland. 
2 v Wigan. 
2 v Blackpool. 
 

I don’t have the stats, but I’d guess that’s the highest in the league. 

I am more disappointed that you started this thread than the result today. This is not the same team and apart from today ,when we battled all day against a good physical team , we have been much , much better defensively.

Mistakes happen. 
I think the lads deserve a bit of slack more than flack.

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Coxy27 said:

You are making it a bigger deal than it is though, and I feel like you know that.

Blackpool and Sunderland, we were also losing. So is that 2 points gained or 4 points dropped?

You're choosing the latter.

I’m not making a big deal out of it, I just think it’s something that’s worthy of discussion.

 

[mozo]

3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

 

Mistakes happen. 
I think the lads deserve a bit of slack more than flack.

I've give them a whack, and make them take crack to get them back on track... 

[I do not condone drug taking]

Edit: [Or violence]

Edited August 27, 2022 by mozo

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

I am more disappointed that you started this thread than the result today. This is not the same team and apart from today ,when we battled all day against a good physical team , we have been much , much better defensively.

Mistakes happen. 
I think the lads deserve a bit of slack more than flack.

I’m not necessarily criticising the ‘lads’. 
The ‘lads’ have done very well. 
It’s the tactical decisions and ‘experienced’ players which I think should be better. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

What this shows me is that we are not a million miles away from having a team capable of challanging for promotion. 

[Davefevs]

Here’s a summary of 6 league games so far:

It shows how many goals we concede (GAOP) / score (GFOP)whilst each player is on the pitch, then aggregates this per 90 mins (GF / GA p90)….the green and reds.

Then the blues and oranges represent the game-state / points each player has had, plus a per 90 too.

Don’t get me wrong we’ve dropped some points late in games, but I’m not sure how much we critique ourselves.  Kane Wilson’s numbers are “negative” too, so is he a good option off the bench?  Was bringing Klose on at CB3 and moving Naismith to LCB3 v Wigan the right thing, as many suggested that’s exactly what we should do.

Today was a cock-up by Naismith.

Individual errors like this affect us.

Lets not read too much into my data above or an early season 6 game sample either.

All things being equal it’s a decent point, an up and down performance, but we are sat in 9th position, on 8 points, with a positive goal difference and unbeaten in 4 league games and 6 overall.

Plus Antoine is back.

 

[stephenkibby.]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’m not necessarily criticising the ‘lads’. 
The ‘lads’ have done very well. 
It’s the tactical decisions and ‘experienced’ players which I think should be better. 

Pearson.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Win your home games, draw your away games and you're looking at automatic promotion. 

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I’m not making a big deal out of it, I just think it’s something that’s worthy of discussion.

 

I'm sure Nigel will be discussing it with the players in pretty robust terms! He gets as frustrated as anybody with all the individual errors.

He has totally transformed us as an attacking force but nobody needs to tell him there are issues to fix. Which means it's fine for us to discuss them too.

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Spot on.

No one in the whole country had Reading being top after 6 games.

It is an incredibly unpredictable division, every week there are results (QPR at Watford today) that no one would predict.

All very true. But surely our opening 6 fixtures were a preferable set of fixtures given what we could have had. 
 

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Here’s a summary of 6 league games so far:

It shows how many goals we concede (GAOP) / score (GFOP)whilst each player is on the pitch, then aggregates this per 90 mins (GF / GA p90)….the green and reds.

Then the blues and oranges represent the game-state / points each player has had, plus a per 90 too.

Don’t get me wrong we’ve dropped some points late in games, but I’m not sure how much we critique ourselves.  Kane Wilson’s numbers are “negative” too, so is he a good option off the bench?  Was bringing Klose on at CB3 and moving Naismith to LCB3 v Wigan the right thing, as many suggested that’s exactly what we should do.

Today was a cock-up by Naismith.

Individual errors like this affect us.

Lets not read too much into my data above or an early season 6 game sample either.

All things being equal it’s a decent point, an up and down performance, but we are sat in 9th position, on 8 points, with a positive goal difference and unbeaten in 4 league games and 6 overall.

Plus Antoine is back.

 

Agreed. I’m as fed up as the next girl. You could hear my frustration back in Brizz. BUT we will continue to improve. 
 

As Owers said , all we can do for the next few days is sit back and wait.

You know more about FFP than I do and what we may have to do, but if one of a few gets sold on outside the club we can hang on to all of our players and if SL is to be believed we don’t have to sell. Big week this un!

[Sheltons Army]

Despite the poor tactical decisions and clueless substitutions , we are four games unbeaten 

Two away draws at places we’ve regularly capitulated , and two home wins

#Crisis

 

 

 

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Did we really become slow and lethargic from the moment King came on in the 88th minute?  Or were were a bit slow and lethargic in the period before?  That’s some influence if so!

We became even more slow and negative after King came on...but yes we were already in a negative frame of mind before he came on. It just made it worse.

We lost all pace and became even slower.

Hence me saying about use of substitutions being better.

What's wrong with bringing Wilson on and moving Scott inside? 

Or using the energy of Semenyo, Conway and Weimann up front and let them have something to worry about.

Wells and Williams were far more tired and less effective later on.

My point being, the substitutions and shape all round could have been more positive.

I'm not blaming King solely for the defeat...the goal I am...but the negativity had already set in before that...and all it did was give Blackpool the impedance to be even more positive.

We shot ourselves in the foot...doing the same as before. We don't learn. 

That's why it's so frustrating, because without these errors, their is no reason we couldn't make top 6 this season if we keep everyone and play on the front foot.

Yes we are doing better...but learn from the glaring elephant in the room. As a man of numbers...you'll realise the stats don't lie

[Harry]

Just now, chinapig said:

I'm sure Nigel will be discussing it with the players in pretty robust terms! He gets as frustrated as anybody with all the individual errors.

He has totally transformed us as an attacking force but nobody needs to tell him there are issues to fix. Which means it's fine for us to discuss them too.

Exactly. I’m sure Nigel is incredibly frustrated by it. I’m sure the players are incredibly frustrated by it. I’m sure the board are incredibly frustrated by it. But if Harry from otib is frustrated by it, he’s not allowed to be and must have an agenda.

[MarcusX]

57 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We knew it was a slow build.  Very happy all in all. I’d rather be doing this than constantly going behind in games.  Progress is being made and the squad is looking in a good place with the likes of Conway coming through. We didn’t need to buy a striker after all.  If Kalas can come back and we can keep our best players we will our best season for about 5 years when I think we finished 8th

Tbh, as much as I was annoyed at Naismith for the pass and throwing away 2 points - I’d much rather have CBs who want to play and at times we moved the ball well. We’ve played better this season for sure but it wasn’t terrible today just sometimes a bit safe.

Its miles away from the shit 2 years ago, if we can just sort out the mistakes we’ll be half decent. 
 

Now I’ve had tome to get over the equaliser (that I predicted at 85 mins) and a couple of ciders on the seafront it was a thoroughly enjoyable game and you can’t fault the effort. Supporters were brilliant too, fair play everyone. Great reaction to their goals each time