Points lost from winning positions

[Edgy Red]

I think (unfortunately) we have to expect days like today and realise its where we are as a club. There will be disapointments along the way but i do believe that we are gradually improving.

We are a bit weak defensively but we are missing (arguably) our best 2 defenders in Kalas and Baker. They would both make a big difference to the team, and whilst we may never see Baker in a City shirt again, if we can get Kalas back fit, then it would be a huge boost.

After a number of years of fairly dull football, i'm just looking forward to getting back to The Gate on Wednesday!

[Fuber]

40 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I really do not miss the Johnson days. Most of the time we were scraping wins and playing on counter attack. We have a side who actually look to effect games now and are worth getting behind. I'd take how we are playing right now above 80% of his reign

Most of the time we were crap and knicked a goal.

Don't think we even really played on the counter attack - that would qualify as an identity and we never had one under LJ. 

[stephenkibby.]

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

Despite the poor tactical decisions and clueless substitutions , we are four games unbeaten 

Two away draws at places we’ve regularly capitulated , and two home wins

#Crisis

 

 

 

How the hell we got a point at Blackpool is amazing going by Harry's criteria.

They drew 3/3 at Burnley who smashed Wigan away 5/1 today. We drew with Wigan so therefore.

**** i give up, can't work out who's decent and who's shite.

[Fordy62]

Playing good football. On a decent unbeaten stretch. And a manager who doesn’t feel the need to fill silence with needless bollocks  

Im a glass half full kinda guy.  

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

All very true. But surely our opening 6 fixtures were a preferable set of fixtures given what we could have had. 
 

I honestly don’t know if they were;

Hull on opening day, made a huge number of signings, boosted on the day by the ref, as well.

Sunderland & Wigan, both newly promoted, I’d have said Rotherham were an easier game than these 2 early on, but they haven’t lost yet.

Then Luton who made the playoffs last season & took 4 points from us, followed by Cardiff, who I don’t expect us to keep beating indefinitely.

Boro won for the first time today, Reading are top, I know which of those 2 on paper I’d have wanted to play in our first six games.

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Exactly. I’m sure Nigel is incredibly frustrated by it. I’m sure the players are incredibly frustrated by it. I’m sure the board are incredibly frustrated by it. 

I think the issue is , with lots of good things to discuss or debate , your previous thread you started was negative regarding the substitutions after the win against Luton

In between its been criticism of various tactical decisions , particularly using Scott at RWB

I stand to be corrected but I’m struggling to recall a thread of positivity

Even your recent non critical comments come across ‘begrudgingly’

I find it strange , especially with the positive work you are doing with the scouting

You wont like it , but I wont be alone in thinking you did and have come across as extremely protective of everything LJ and now as someone (at best), ‘reluctant to accept’ Pearson , highlighting only (perceived) negatives 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Playing good football. On a decent unbeaten stretch. And a manager who doesn’t feel the need to fill silence with needless bollocks  

Im a glass half full kinda guy.  

I’m with you %100 Fordy 

(And I drunk half your pint bringing it back from the bar )

[Fordy62]

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

I’m with you %100 Fordy 

(And I drunk half your pint bringing it back from the bar )

I don’t mind mate. For 48 more hours they’re all free (if you ignore the horrendous initial outlay!)

[Harry]

18 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

How the hell we got a point at Blackpool is amazing going by Harry's criteria.

They drew 3/3 at Burnley who smashed Wigan away 5/1 today. We drew with Wigan so therefore.

**** i give up, can't work out who's decent and who's shite.

Well, you’re totally re-writing what I said to suit your own opinion. 
I agree, before the game I’d have happily settled for a 3-3 draw and a point away at Blackpool. 
I’m not complaining about gaining a point and generally playing well in spells. 
I’m just concerned that we had 3 points in the 90th minute, and let in another late goal. 
This isn’t about being critical of gaining a point away from home, it’s about small errors in tactics that have led to us losing points at the death. Again. 

[Harry]

20 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I think the issue is , with lots of good things to discuss or debate , your previous thread you started was negative regarding the substitutions after the win against Luton

In between its been criticism of various tactical decisions , particularly using Scott at RWB

I stand to be corrected but I’m struggling to recall a thread of positivity

Even your recent non critical comments come across ‘begrudgingly’

I find it strange , especially with the positive work you are doing with the scouting

You wont like it , but I wont be alone in thinking you did and have come across as extremely protective of everything LJ and now as someone (at best), ‘reluctant to accept’ Pearson , highlighting only (perceived) negatives 

 

 

 

 

 

Why keep bringing Lj into the conversation. He’s got nothing to do with my current thoughts on this current team and results. 
I’ve said 100 times that I agreed with Lj being sacked. Don’t know what more you want. 
But it bears absolutely no relation to any of my thoughts on todays game. 
I think it’s odd that people bring this up and think there’s some kind of agenda. There’s not. I like Pearson and I was fully behind his appointment. But sure, I’m querying his tactics - yes, I want to see Scott playing in the middle, not at wing back, and nothing anyone can say on that can change my mind. We won’t have him for long, I want to savour him in his best role. 
That’s got absolutely nothing to do with LJ. If he were still here and playing Scott at wing back I’d be saying the exact same thing. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Harry

[Fordy62]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Well, you’re totally re-writing what I said to suit your own opinion. 
I agree, before the game I’d have happily settled for a 3-3 draw and a point away at Blackpool. 
I’m not complaining about gaining a point and generally playing well in spells. 
I’m just concerned that we had 3 points in the 90th minute, and let in another late goal. 
This isn’t about being critical of gaining a point away from home, it’s about small errors in tactics that have led to us losing points at the death. Again. 

I get the concern, but sometimes things happen that our outside of tactical involvement. No one asked Naismith, Vyner et Al to put together a complete absolute shambles. That’s not drawn on a blackboard. But that is life in football. Got take the rough with the smooth. The end of today was rough granted, but there’s been a lot more smooth this season. 

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

I get the concern, but sometimes things happen that our outside of tactical involvement. No one asked Naismith, Vyner et Al to put together a complete absolute shambles. That’s not drawn on a blackboard. But that is life in football. Got take the rough with the smooth. The end of today was rough granted, but there’s been a lot more smooth this season. 

Playing out from the back against a team pressing high in the 90th minute with a midfield of slugs and zero pace in the back 8 players, IS a tactical involvement.  

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I get the concern, but sometimes things happen that our outside of tactical involvement. No one asked Naismith, Vyner et Al to put together a complete absolute shambles. That’s not drawn on a blackboard. But that is life in football. Got take the rough with the smooth. The end of today was rough granted, but there’s been a lot more smooth this season. 

You would have thought that what you said above was so obvious it didn’t need to be said but…….,

[Rob k]

I for one can’t see what the issue is with with what’s been written, it’s all fact. 
We are still conceding daft goals and it’s frustrating, that’s surley allowed to be said? 
Nigel Pearson will be thinking exactly the same - I’ve not watched the game but I’m told we should have been 2 goals to the good, we’re improving but clearly still work to be done which I’m sure the management team are well aware of. 

[Harry]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

You would have thought that what you said above was so obvious it didn’t need to be said but…….,

You would have thought that dropping 10 points from winning positions was something that was worthy of discussion, but……… 

[Sheltons Army]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Why keep bringing Lj into the conversation. He’s got nothing to do with my current thoughts on this current team and results. 
I’ve said 100 times that I agreed with Lj being sacked. Don’t know what more you want. 
But it bears absolutely no relation to any of my thoughts on todays game. 
I think it’s odd that people bring this up and think there’s some kind of agenda. There’s not. I like Pearson and I was fully behind his appointment. But sure, I’m querying his tactics - yes, I want to see Scott playing in the middle, not at wing back, and nothing anyone can say on that can change my mind. We won’t have him for long, I want to savour him in his best role. 
That’s got absolutely nothing to do with LJ. If he were still here and playing Scott at wing back I’d be saying the exact same thing. 

Because Harry

Forstly you were incredibly protective and defensive regarding him , and certainly never started critical threads , but appear to have been anti-Pearson from the off and almost sulky at the positivity that’s been around

If it wasn’t for the Scouting initiative I’d say almost ‘anti club’

 

FWIW I think the majority of the fans are sensible both in their current expectations , and the restrictions

I also get the impression that the majority can see what Pearson has done and is doing 

Not everything is running perfectly (I agree signing Tanner and Wilson and having to play AS there doesn’t appear ideal or the plan, 

We are a fair distance from perfect , but it’s good to see fans enjoying honest performances , enjoying seeing the introduction of our ‘own’ players , enjoying those players performing well , the front foot and honest football

Its a shame (genuine) you don’t appear to 

 

I posted in the week -

when was it noticeably brighter or potentially brighter at this level ?

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

You would have thought that dropping 10 points from winning positions was something that was worthy of discussion, but……… 

Crazy pen and a poor defensive header at Hull, how many mistakes could a team make at the back in one game v Sunderland,  Bentley fresh air punching a corner at Wigan and Naismith primarily culpable out of three mistakes for the equaliser today. Senior players making individual errors costing us points. Is that wrong?

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Because Harry

Forstly you were incredibly protective and defensive regarding him , and certainly never started critical threads , but appear to have been anti-Pearson from the off and almost sulky at the positivity that’s been around

If it wasn’t for the Scouting initiative I’d say almost ‘anti club’

 

FWIW I think the majority of the fans are sensible both in their current expectations , and the restrictions

I also get the impression that the majority can see what Pearson has done and is doing 

Not everything is running perfectly (I agree signing Tanner and Wilson and having to play AS there doesn’t appear ideal or the plan, 

We are a fair distance from perfect , but it’s good to see fans enjoying honest performances , enjoying seeing the introduction of our ‘own’ players , enjoying those players performing well , the front foot and honest football

Its a shame (genuine) you don’t appear to 

 

I posted in the week -

when was it noticeably brighter or potentially brighter at this level ?

I agree with all of the highlighted bits.  I’m very happy with the performances this season, the games have been entertaining, I’m behind Pearson and know he’s got a tough job. But I’m not happy at seeing Scott & Weimann playing wing back, and I’m not happy with our sluggish midfield 3. Last season it was semi-acceptable to play Scott, Weimann, Bell there as we had no other options. Not this season. I’m not having it. 
I just don’t see what any of that has to do with LJ. Move on. He left 3 years ago. And, for what it’s worth, if you really want to check through all of my posting history, you will 100% find posts questioning LJ’s tactical decisions too. But you don’t remember those, do you….

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, Harry said:

Playing out from the back against a team pressing high in the 90th minute with a midfield of slugs and zero pace in the back 8 players, IS a tactical involvement.  

That's exactly how I see it as well.

It is tactical. 

What people also tend to forget, is that opposition managers will know we concede late, inform their players and feel upbeat and positive about scoring.

Whilst we in the other hand, know we concede late, yet keep making the same mistakes.

The opposition late in will be buzzing...we will be nervous wrecks.

The only way of changing it ..is by doing something different.

Instead of defending, playing for time, shoring up ...which we have history of being poor at...play on the front foot. Play to our strengths.

Individual mistakes happen, because we allow teams on to us.

I think NP is doing a good job mainly...but this is now becoming far beyond a joke.

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Is now up to 10. 
3 v Hull. 
3 v Sunderland. 
2 v Wigan. 
2 v Blackpool. 
 

I don’t have the stats, but I’d guess that’s the highest in the league. 

Who cares mate,be thankful that we look like scoring every game because some of us have travelled far and wide knowing that a nil nil is a result

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Because Harry

Forstly you were incredibly protective and defensive regarding him , and certainly never started critical threads , but appear to have been anti-Pearson from the off and almost sulky at the positivity that’s been around

If it wasn’t for the Scouting initiative I’d say almost ‘anti club’

 

FWIW I think the majority of the fans are sensible both in their current expectations , and the restrictions

I also get the impression that the majority can see what Pearson has done and is doing 

Not everything is running perfectly (I agree signing Tanner and Wilson and having to play AS there doesn’t appear ideal or the plan, 

We are a fair distance from perfect , but it’s good to see fans enjoying honest performances , enjoying seeing the introduction of our ‘own’ players , enjoying those players performing well , the front foot and honest football

Its a shame (genuine) you don’t appear to 

 

I posted in the week -

when was it noticeably brighter or potentially brighter at this level ?

Now to 12 months ago is chalk and cheese. Back then we couldn’t even compete in games and we’re scrapping for EVERY point. Now we are on the front foot in games, carry a genuine threat going forward and are frustrated at getting a point away rather than thankful we got one.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Numero Uno

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Who cares mate,be thankful that we look like scoring every game because some of us have travelled far and wide knowing that a nil nil is a result

……..and who enjoys giving up their Saturday watching a team get battered every game and literally stealing a point or three? It’s a laugh now and again.

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Crazy pen and a poor defensive header at Hull, how many mistakes could a team make at the back in one game v Sunderland,  Bentley fresh air punching a corner at Wigan and Naismith primarily culpable out of three mistakes for the equaliser today. Senior players making individual errors costing us points. Is that wrong?

Nope. That’s all correct. But who’s put those players in those positions to make those mistakes? The buck always stops with the manager, doesn’t it? 
It’s a tactical decision to play Naismith as the middle of 3 cb’s, when he’s never played there before, asking him to play out (which I like, but ultimately it’s a tactic and if it goes wrong it’s on the managers head is it not?) It’s tactical to play him there, where he’s never played before, when he’s more familiar with defending outside of the box or wide (as a full back) and thus stupid lunges in the box to give away penalties is ultimately a tactical decision. 
Re the corners, it’s a tactical decision to play zonal, it’s a tactical decision to not play the only ‘first ball winner’ you have in the squad. 
It’s a tactical decision to play your best players out of position and to sit deeper and deeper in games, it’s tactical to remove the only pace you have in the team and your only remaining threat that the opposition worries about, it’s tactical to end a game with the slowest midfield 3 you’ve probably ever witnessed, etc etc. 

Yes, individuals make errors, but mistakes also arise through tactical decisions. 

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Now to 12 months ago is chalk and cheese. Back then we couldn’t even compete in games and we’re scrapping for EVERY point. Now we are on the front foot in games, carry a genuine threat going forward and are frustrated at getting a point away rather than thankful we got one rather than getting battered.

Frustration is ingrained with Life as a City fan   Isn’t that the truth

But there’s some really good things happening and personally I’m really enjoying the progression and play if  Scott , the rapid significance of Antoine , the incredible start for Tommy ... the effort of Weimann , the influence and presence of very good senior pros around the HPC , rather than those that disrupt and set a crap culture , enjoying their impact on the young ones , enjoying quite a lot of the football being played , enjoying listening to Pearson and his straightforward and honest words.....

I still hate when we concede ,especially when we **** up , let alone when we lose ...... but that’s football and City have rarely ever failed to deliver more than our fair share

But im enjoying it and really pleased that clearly many are enjoying it at the moment - That ultimately is the most important thing of all

We are getting back the ‘honest’ sort of Club we do when we are at our best 

 

[Lordofthebling]

Ifs buts and maybes, but if we had Baker and Kalas available...

[Numero Uno]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Nope. That’s all correct. But who’s put those players in those positions to make those mistakes? The buck always stops with the manager, doesn’t it? 
It’s a tactical decision to play Naismith as the middle of 3 cb’s, when he’s never played there before, asking him to play out (which I like, but ultimately it’s a tactic and if it goes wrong it’s on the managers head is it not?) It’s tactical to play him there, where he’s never played before, when he’s more familiar with defending outside of the box or wide (as a full back) and thus stupid lunges in the box to give away penalties is ultimately a tactical decision. 
Re the corners, it’s a tactical decision to play zonal, it’s a tactical decision to not play the only ‘first ball winner’ you have in the squad. 
It’s a tactical decision to play your best players out of position and to sit deeper and deeper in games, it’s tactical to remove the only pace you have in the team and your only remaining threat that the opposition worries about, it’s tactical to end a game with the slowest midfield 3 you’ve probably ever witnessed, etc etc. 

Yes, individuals make errors, but mistakes also arise through tactical decisions. 

To be fair Klose’s poor header at Hull and Bentley’s flap at Wigan were not tactical. They were out and out mistakes. Sunderland I’ll agree, we were shambolic at the back all game. Today the main change I would have made was Wilson for Andi in the last 15 but you cannot excuse the goal whatever the criticism of tactics.

[Numero Uno]

On a positive isn’t it some sort of progress that people are criticising tactics compared to 12 months ago (rightfully at the time) mentioning how shit we are? Because this time last season we were ******* dire to watch.

[Simple Red]

We would have been relegated under any other gaffer last Year and Mr Pearson is making me believe in the project and I have loved being at the Gate. I’m happy and a believer!

[Harry]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

To be fair Klose’s poor header at Hull and Bentley’s flap at Wigan were not tactical. They were out and out mistakes. Sunderland I’ll agree, we were shambolic at the back all game. Today the main change I would have made was Wilson for Andi in the last 15 but you cannot excuse the goal whatever the criticism of tactics.

Klose? Really?? 
Klose’s header was excellent and cleared the ball over 20 yards. It was just a shame that he was the one who was left to attempt to close down that 20 yards after he’d headed it clear. 
It was tactical to not have someone patrolling the edge of the box for just such a scenario. 
As for Bentley, well, it’s common knowledge that he’s not the best at crosses. Therefore it’s tactical as to how we set up at corners and we should be protecting him more. 
Mistakes happen. Tactics can help to negate them. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Harry

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

On a positive isn’t it some sort of progress that people are criticising tactics compared to 12 months ago (rightfully at the time) mentioning how shit we are? Because this time last season we were ******* dire to watch.

Well, this is exactly it. 
As I said earlier, it was hard to care over the last 2 seasons, knowing we were shit, knowing there were players who didn’t give a shit. That’s why I feel it’s important to be allowed to be critical now. We are getting there, performances have been good, I’m really enjoying the games and some of the players on show, but this is why it’s frustrating when I see things that we ought to be doing better - what’s the harm in being allowed to raise those concerns? 

I don’t know why I’d get stick about that - and the LJ stuff that some are coming up with is just a ridiculous deflection.