VAR in the Premier League yesterday

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Agreed it’s ridiculous 

So taking it to extremes , In reality , you could keep a player near their penalty box the whole game and unless the ball is played to him , or he doesn’t make himself active , wait for the suitable moment to create an overload in the attack or just a  2v 1 , and score , as long as he’s onside when scoring / receiving the assist 

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

So taking it to extremes , In reality , you could keep a player near their penalty box the whole game and unless the ball is played to him , or he doesn’t make himself active , wait for the suitable moment to create an overload in the attack or just a  2v 1 , and score , as long as he’s onside when scoring / receiving the assist 

Yep absolutely 

[2015]

God I hate Sky's fawning over Man United. So tedious

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, Rob k said:

Is every goal now checked - it’s getting ridiculous 

They’ve always checked every goal 

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yep absolutely 

Somebody ought to do it !  Would cause chaos

[MarcusX]

29 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Anyone just see United s third goal

Am I going crackers but is Rashford not offside when the balls played to Eriksen ?

He looks at least a yard off , but VAR , or the Lino don’t seem to have noticed that 

Why would that matter?

edit: seen further replies, as said you’re only offside when you receive the ball. Doesn’t matter if you’re offside in the first “phase” but not involved - it’s only when the balls played to the attacker / they receive it.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by MarcusX

[MarcusX]

14 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

So taking it to extremes , In reality , you could keep a player near their penalty box the whole game and unless the ball is played to him , or he doesn’t make himself active , wait for the suitable moment to create an overload in the attack or just a  2v 1 , and score , as long as he’s onside when scoring / receiving the assist 

Theres a reason no ones done it, you’d get out numbered somewhere else on the pitch

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Why would that matter?

I’m sure you remember a time not long ago where it did matter. He was just asking why it didn’t now. Perfectly reasonable question 

[MarcusX]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

I’m sure you remember a time not long ago where it did matter. He was just asking why it didn’t now. Perfectly reasonable question 

I since edited, fair some people probably don’t kee up with rule changes but it’s been changed for some time now.

Played a game yesterday and someone actually asked the ref if they could be offside from a goal kick 

[Rob k]

10 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

They’ve always checked every goal 

Never knew that - learn something every day 

[MarcusX]

Just now, Rob k said:

Never knew that - learn something every day 

Yep every goal is reviewed and a certain period of time in the build up is watched back, they are in the ear to the ref to tel him whether they are checking or not so he knows not to continue.

Obviously most goals tend to be clear cut so isn’t noticed or mentioned

[East Londoner]

12 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

They’ve always checked every goal 

Maybe what they need to do is follow crickets example where you can make say 3 challenges to a decision per half.

That way it doesn’t take ages per decision and you keep an element of human error in that’s seen in every other league and also fans can be more involved 

[Cowshed]

45 minutes ago, Midred said:

Did you used to be a keeper?

No. I am qualified to coach keepers but do not. 

What I provided is from the FA who run courses for Managers/ coaches and players each season on rules changes. In regards to goal keepers what we see are common misapprehensions. 

We can see a lot of misapprehensions from TV pundits and from Managers. The FA and the PMGO can highlight that ref efficiency has improved and VAR has improved efficiency, there are less errors. 

What TV pundits and Managers should recognise is that error is part of football, and so are its subjective rules. The game will never and cannot be perfect. Managers of pro sides feel they are exempt from responsibility to the game. A game that in the future could have serious ref recruitment problems because at the bottom of the development ref pyramid the game is losing refs faster than it recruits them.

The disrespect shown to officialdom, the abusing and criticising of refs at the top manifests itself at the bottom.

Football is haemorrhaging referees.

[mozo]

1 hour ago, East Londoner said:

Maybe what they need to do is follow crickets example where you can make say 3 challenges to a decision per half.

That way it doesn’t take ages per decision and you keep an element of human error in that’s seen in every other league and also fans can be more involved 

I've said this on every VAR thread so far and thought I'd not repeat myself on this one... but since you've triggered me...!

The cricket system would be much better. Let the opposition decide when to review and with limited opportunities. 

It would still need a human referee to make a crucial decision but without the ref upstairs getting involved.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, mozo said:

I've said this on every VAR thread so far and thought I'd not repeat myself on this one... but since you've triggered me...!

 The cricket system would be much better. Let the opposition decide when to review and with limited opportunities.  

It would still need a human referee to make a crucial decision but without the ref upstairs getting involved.

Agree.  Take the heat off the refs.  You’ll see a few managers change their view when they realise their bad decision to “go upstairs” backfires on them.

[firstdivision]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

So Rashford isn’t interfering with play or active where he was ?

No. Not under the current law. 

[Rob k]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree.  Take the heat off the refs.  You’ll see a few managers change their view when they realise their bad decision to “go upstairs” backfires on them.

Thing is you could only have one review a game otherwise you would just review every goal and 9/10 dependent on how far you go back there will more than likely be something that’s not been picked up.  I’m not a big fan of VAR, if they can get a system like goal line technology that works for offsides then great but leave the rest to the ref on the pitch. 

[Super]

I think the Palace goal is more of a tough call but there can't be anyone apart from the VAR operator that thought Bowen fouled Mendy. Also why is he getting away with clearly faking his injury?

[mozo]

28 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Thing is you could only have one review a game otherwise you would just review every goal and 9/10 dependent on how far you go back there will more than likely be something that’s not been picked up.  I’m not a big fan of VAR, if they can get a system like goal line technology that works for offsides then great but leave the rest to the ref on the pitch. 

Maybe each team could have one offensive and one defensive review per game. 

[BCFC101]

Champ rather than Prem, but even Goal Line Technology has failed this weekend 

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12690052/was-the-ball-over-the-line-huddersfield-controversially-denied-goal

Edited September 4, 2022 by BCFC101

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Should be a level of tolerance on offside. Say a foot. Enough to compensate for the naked eye of the lino. Toe nail and armpit offsides can get in the bin. 

[northsomersetred]

4 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Should be a level of tolerance on offside. Say a foot. Enough to compensate for the naked eye of the lino. Toe nail and armpit offsides can get in the bin. 

How about this then?

 

[22A]

When Everton appeared to have scored, the Liverpool players accepted it and headed for the centre circle to restart. That suggests they considered it a goal, only for a delay to proceedings whilst VAR was checked.

OK, keep VAR, but only as a back up. Use it like DRS in cricket. The ref can check if he wasn't sure of something (goal kick or corner etc). The teams would be allowed two reviews per game if they thought the Ref had got it wrong or missed something; "Hey Ref, he dived, look at screen".

[Dr Balls]

If the Premier League had any sense they would consider how video technology works in other sports and why it seems to work there.

In rugby, it’s up to the referee to ask the video ref to raise specific questions to be answered I.e. was their a foul or foot in touch leading up to the try? So rather than millimetre decisions about offside, it’s up to the referee on the field to ask for a review.

In cricket, there is the appeal process, as well as umpires asking for a decision on tight run our calls, but most of the time the umpires (usually ex-players) get the decisions correct. 
 

Alternatively VAR could be used only for “clear and obvious errors” as originally sold. The problem is that some of the refs overseeing VAR (e.g. Lee Mason) are ones who just love interfering with the game and that’s when it starts going wrong.

[Taylor10]

13 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

We were told that VAR would stop the headlines being about decisions so we could concentrate on talking about the game. If yesterday is anything to go by, VAR is showing no signs of improving despite now being in place for a good while.  Decisions are still being made incorrectly and big decisions at that but this time it is two referees getting it wrong instead of one….value for money?!

Michael Oliver took over a minute looking at a monitor yesterday whilst everyone waiting for him.  The Championship is better for not having VAR…we know a goal is a goal and can celebrate accordingly.  Personally I don’t go to games to watch perfect refereeing performances. Take the rough with the smooth and be careful what you wish for!

Yeah bang on. I love the EFL for many reasons but I personally prefer not having VAR in our games.

It is a case of be careful what you wish for. Ironic how it seemed almost everyone around the prem, managers and the media were pushing and pushing for VAR, now are either against it or moaning about it. 

[The Bard]

14 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Irrelevant. The on field match official is the final arbiter not some numpty sat in a room watching a monitor hundreds of miles away. Today's officials in the Premier league and throughout the EFL not only lack the courage of their own convictions but are worst in decades. Whoever is training and guiding today's referees is doing a p**s poor job. 

 

IMO the issue isn't training or anything like that, it's a lack of openness.  Rugby season starts next week and if you watch a game you will hear the ongoing discussion between TMO and ref.  They work together. 

Once a referee has watched back a few of his decisions, he will become far more self-aware, a lot more so than if this is done privately.  At the same time, the more sane and reasonable of the football community will begin to have a lot more empathy for the referees and understanding of their decisions.  The likes of Wayne Barnes are regular contributors to coverage of rugby whilst still being an active referee.  Football treats refs like something that needs to be washed off their shoes. 

That nonsensical 4 minutes to award an offside against Brighton would've lasted 30 seconds if the footballing equivalent of Wayne Barnes was allowed to be in charge.  " He's clearly in an offside position, and he remains active so it's offside".  That took 4 and a half minutes, most of which involved TV viewers seeing the same images over and over again whilst the VAR people tried to draw lines on the screen.  He was a yard offside FFS.

I would have a system whereby the ref's mike is off during the game until there is an intervention from VAR.  The whole conversation between ref & VAR person would then be broadcast.

[Bill the Bee]

Although we had 3 VAR decisions go our way yesterday I hate it.However crap you think it is looking on from afar when you are at a game unless it’s completely clear cut you can’t fully celebrate and it’s a sickener when these sometimes micro decisions go against you.Good to see you have started the season well and hopefully you can get up and fill your pockets with money although that’s the only plus on getting to the PL not a patch on the championship 

[Roger Red Hat]

10 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

The problem is that some of the refs overseeing VAR (e.g. Lee Mason)

Shit ref, shit VAR operative.

[Tangle Foot]

14 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Irrelevant. The on field match official is the final arbiter not some numpty sat in a room watching a monitor hundreds of miles away. Today's officials in the Premier league and throughout the EFL not only lack the courage of their own convictions but are worst in decades. Whoever is training and guiding today's referees is doing a p**s poor job. 

 

@RoystonFoote'snephew The on pitch ref does ultimately make the final decision, but he can only do that based on what video images VAR are giving them to look at on the pitch-side monitor. On MOTD they said the key angle clearly showing Mitchell shoving Willock into the Guaita was not given to Salisbury (the ref) to review. Remember, initially he has given the goal. 

Mason (the VAR) had somehow decided that the on pitch ref had made a clear and obvious  error, which was totally wrong. Also VAR had seen all the angles.

In this occasion I do feel for Salisbury. He has far less experience at EPL level than Mason, so once he was sent to the monitor and saw what he was given to see, there was always going to be a very high probability that he was going to reverse his originally correct decision, and disallow the goal. In most jobs, if someone experienced tells a less experienced member of staff they have made a mistake, it would be completely natural for the inexperienced person to listen. Wouldn’t you agree?

[mozo]

10 hours ago, Taylor10 said:

Yeah bang on. I love the EFL for many reasons but I personally prefer not having VAR in our games.

It is a case of be careful what you wish for. Ironic how it seemed almost everyone around the prem, managers and the media were pushing and pushing for VAR, now are either against it or moaning about it. 

Surely we'd have had about a dozen more penalties and therefore loads more points if we had VAR? Nige seems to think so.