Danny Wilson was City's last 'proper' manager - discuss.

[Logical-City]

17 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Been going since Wilson was in charge. We played great football under him, just couldn't get over the line. In truth we just were not good enough in that era to get promoted. League 1 was tough back then and money was being chucked about by other clubs stupidly like Wigan, Cardiff, QPR, Stoke etc.

It is obviously all about preferences really and styles. Wilson was no where near as good as Cotterill and GJ, but to me on a par with LJ - Who spent millions at his time at the club and achieved nothing.

On Gary Johnson. Everything was great until January 2008 when he decided to bring in a big CF and we stopped playing our progressive high tempo passing football. It was downhill from then on, we should have gone up automatically but that is down to how good he was at that time for us. Unfortunately after the PO final defeat he made many errors in the transfer market and on player contracts which messed the club up long term for a few years after he left which kind of tarnished his great work, for me.

Cotterill couldn't adapt to the Championship and if he had changed from a 352 to a 442 history could have been different, but he wouldn't change and was stubborn. 

Lee Johnson spent more money than any other manager I have known in my time following City and we didn't achieve anything, much like Danny Wilson's sides. I never actually thought the football under LJ was attractive aside from the early 17/18 season, which is a small percentage of his reign. 

I’m not sure how he could tarnish it every manager since Gary has fed off the belief and appetite he installed in our club ,fan base and chairman! We still sing bounce around the ground and up until recently we always believe 

Im not sure how 2 10th place finishes can be seen as failure after almost a decade in the league below. We are a bigger club now than we were in 2008 and that’s because Gary kept us competitive for 2 seasons after that play off season. In the old Ashton Gate against the clubs we were competing with what did we expect? Who could we have signed?

Doomed to fail should have left us when he was on the up was his only mistake.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Logical-City

[Riaz]

12 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

I find it outrageous that LJ is above Cotts. All about opinions though. That’s why we love it. 
 

 

Cotts did well in league one. LJ did well in the Championship.

Cotts was woeful in the championship and we were going down. LJ kept us up, with almost the same squad that cotts struggled with.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Riaz

[2015]

1 minute ago, Logical-City said:

I’m not sure how he could tarnish it every manager since Gary has fed off the belief and appetite he installed in our club ,fan base and chairman!

Im not sure how 2 10th place finishes can be seen as failure after almost a decade in the league below. We are a bigger club now than we were in 2008 and that’s because Gary kept us competitive for 2 seasons after that play off season. In the old Ashton Gate against the clubs we were competing with what did we expect? Who could we have signed?

Doomed to fail should have left us when he was on the up was his only mistake.

I certainly would not say that this club has fed off the belief and appetite GJ laid down. Maybe you liked the era under him and his style which is fine, but you could go as far back as Terry Cooper and say a similar statement.

I would say that 2009/10 10th place finish was not down to Gary Johnson as when he left we were 18th and had recently been hammered by Doncaster and Cardiff in home matches. 

You are also bang on, he probably should have left us when we were on the up. We changed in 08/09, no longer a side I considered entertaining to watch, but that is down to preference and opinion. He still did very well to get us in 10th with that side.

 

[BTRFTG]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

LDV Vans trophy 2003, everyone wants to win that surely

I put it to you that being eligible to participate in such competition is, of itself, evidence of wholesale failure*

* Ex [Bristol Rovers FC V Reality] (Quotannis)

[Super]

He will always be remembered for the Brighton shit show.

[headhunter]

Here's an interview I did with Danny Wilson last year in an Episode of FBC Podcast:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/in-conversation-with-danny-wilson-manager-2000-04/ 

Worth a listen if you missed it.

[Logical-City]

14 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I certainly would not say that this club has fed off the belief and appetite GJ laid down. Maybe you liked the era under him and his style which is fine, but you could go as far back as Terry Cooper and say a similar statement.

I would say that 2009/10 10th place finish was not down to Gary Johnson as when he left we were 18th and had recently been hammered by Doncaster and Cardiff in home matches. 

You are also bang on, he probably should have left us when we were on the up. We changed in 08/09, no longer a side I considered entertaining to watch, but that is down to preference and opinion. He still did very well to get us in 10th with that side.

 

Table after Gary’s last game same distance from play offs to relegation after a 3-2 defeat at Plymouth terrible GD and the dressing room had turned on him as happens with most managers outstayed his welcome. I would say accumulating the majority of points and leaving 37 games in to a 46 game season meant you were more than partly responsible for the final points total
 

If he jumped to another club after 08/09 we probably would have called for him to be appointed again somewhere down the line history is history and all that

I would add to this look up that table and what our club was competing with at the time and where we had come from Our expectations rose so dramatically in a couple of years 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Logical-City

[Monkeh]

29 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

I find it outrageous that LJ is above Cotts. All about opinions though. That’s why we love it. 
 

 

Cotts got us out of league 1, johnson established us as a championship club, who went on cup runs

[2015]

6 minutes ago, Logical-City said:

Table after Gary’s last game same distance from play offs to relegation after a 3-2 defeat at Plymouth terrible GD and the dressing room had turned on him as happens with most managers outstayed his welcome.

If he jumped to another club after 08/09 we probably would have called for him to be appointed again somewhere down the line history is history and all that

I would add to this look up that table and what our club was competing with at the time and where we had come from Our expectations rose so dramatically in a couple of years 

So we were both wrong. You can't credit GJ for finishing 10th that season and we were 15th and not 18th. 

The style of football in 08/09 and 09/10 was not my cup of tea at all but if it it is just results you look for when watching City then that's also fine. 

[Logical-City]

6 minutes ago, 2015 said:

So we were both wrong. You can't credit GJ for finishing 10th that season and we were 15th and not 18th. 

The style of football in 08/09 and 09/10 was not my cup of tea at all but if it it is just results you look for when watching City then that's also fine. 

No your right but we were trying to find a way to compete in a division of giants we needed a chance to rebuild but you don’t get that time in the Championship it’s so competitive results are needed immediately hence why you seen clubs like Leicester, Southampton, Leeds ,Norwich , Sheffield United , Forest and now Derby all have to drop in to League 1 to reset.

GJ probably knew this and in the end was playing desperation football for results rather than having time to reset and go again happens with every manager eventually apart from a Ferguson or Wenger 

[2015]

Just now, Logical-City said:

No your right but we were trying to find a way to compete in a division of giants we needed a chance to rebuild but you don’t get that time in the Championship it’s so competitive results are needed immediately hence why you seen clubs like Leicester, Southampton, Leeds ,Norwich , Sheffield United , Forest and now Derby all have to drop in to League 1 to reset.

GJ probably knew this and in the end was playing desperation football for results rather than having time to reset and go again happens with every manager eventually apart from a Ferguson or Wenger 

I think what happened when we went up is sides expected a different style from City but we blew teams away by how we played. Teams figured us out a little bit so GJ tried to evolve our style into a more pragmatic approach. I can appreciate that is likely what he tried doing, it just wasn't the most attractive compared to similar clubs (Cardiff, Swansea, Reading) at that time. Hartley was a great signing in 09/10 but he ruined this by spending big on donkey Clarkson up front.

[Lew-T]

Flop.

Next.

[Monkeh]

35 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Flop.

Next.

Every manager is generally a flop in the end with the exception of a few stand outs 

[Mr X]

We spent plenty of money for league one at the time even after Wilson. Who can remember all the Bristol City legends from the 'magnificent seven' brought in by Tinnion in 2005. 

Grant Smith

Marcus Stewart

Matt Heywood

Michael Bridges

Richard Keogh

Dave Partridge

Alex Russel

[Riaz]

2 hours ago, 2015 said:

Lee Johnson spent more money than any other manager I have known in my time following City and we didn't achieve anything, much like Danny Wilson's sides. I never actually thought the football under LJ was attractive aside from the early 17/18 season, which is a small percentage of his reign. 

People say this, but it isnt true - he sold way more than he spent. He kept losing players, who were sold and spent money to replace them.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Riaz

[Riaz]

2 hours ago, Ian M said:

Everyone remembers that defeat against Wolves in 17/18 precipitating the end of our season as you can see from the results that followed...

But, they also did for us the next season too when beating us in the FA Cup (we had won 9 games in a row leading into this game)...

We finished 4 points outside the play-offs. I bet LJ really dislikes Wolves.

We had a ridiculous amount of games up until the middle of january. With injuries, the players in the team, played saturday tuesday saturday, from august to january, thanks to the League cup run.

I think becuase of this, we ran out of steam

[Abingdon Red]

Danny Wilson recently signed up to a publishing house which specialises is football books, so we may be able to read more about his time here in the next year or so.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Abingdon Red

[BTRFTG]

16 minutes ago, Riaz said:

People say this, but it isnt true - he sold way more than he spent. He kept losing players, who were sold and spent money to replace them.

Explain then the mountain of debt he left in his wake?

Its been done to death on here dozens of times before. 2015 is spot in his comments.

[Mr Popodopolous]

29 minutes ago, Riaz said:

We had a ridiculous amount of games up until the middle of january. With injuries, the players in the team, played saturday tuesday saturday, from august to january, thanks to the League cup run.

I think becuase of this, we ran out of steam

I would counter that by pointing out the example of Burnley in 2008-09. This was their first promotion to the top flight in modern times and not a subsequent parachute payment assisted one.

They reached the semi finals of the League Cup that season under Coyle- just like us.

Beat 3 PL sides and lost to a 4th in the semis, highly similar to us.

Plus reached 5th Round FA Cup having checked, including two replays. 4 more games including vs PL sides. We lost to Watford that year in Round 3.

They pressed on, unlike us. They actually made the playoffs and won them- having finished bottom half or midtable the prior season.

The momentum of the Cup run, combined with prior seasons big or decent Cup run experience would have stood us in good stead for the playoffs itself.

Should have made playoffs thay year I think, from where we were on Boxing Day and even an hour into the Wolves game.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[2015]

21 minutes ago, Riaz said:

People say this, but it isnt true - he sold way more than he spent. He kept losing players, who were sold and spent money to replace them.

That may well be true that he kept losing players which certainly didn't help him, but by god he spent some money on utter dross and we've only just begun moving on from the wasted money that was spent.

Granted, he signed Brownhill who was sold for great money as well as Webster.
However Jonathan Kodjia, Aden Flint, Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Lloyd Kelly were players who were already at the club when he walked through the door, they made us a lot of money. He was lucky that there were already some very talented footballers at the club when he walked in the door. Unfortunately Steve Cotterill refused to change our formation. 

He wasted a lot of money. And you can say Famara was a great signing and all that but he scored 1 more goal than Chris Martin did in his best season and left for nothing. Total waste of money on mediocrity.

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, headhunter said:

Here's an interview I did with Danny Wilson last year in an Episode of FBC Podcast:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/in-conversation-with-danny-wilson-manager-2000-04/ 

Worth a listen if you missed it.

It is a good listen and he explains about Lita getting left out and how and when he got sacked.

[Sheltons Army]

31 minutes ago, Riaz said:

People say this, but it isnt true - he sold way more than he spent. He kept losing players, who were sold and spent money to replace them.

Did he ? Really ?

You're not an accountant clearly 

He didn’t do ‘well’ in the Championship either 

What did he achieve ? 

I’ll tell ya

He inherited a slim quad with some excellent players , four of whom went onto Premier League Football

He was allowed to enhance that squad with Tomlin & Co .... ‘saved us from relegation’ (If you believe so)

and 18 months later , despite being indulged in various new acquisitions including Tammy and Tomlin on a permanent etc  , we avoided releagation in the penultimate game with a surprise win at promoted Brighton 

What followed was an indulgent real life game of football manager , acquiring , and discarding player after player and constantly tinkering with selections , formations and tactics ...........and talking complete b********

Once Cotts players had been sold or discarded , he was lost ,   it was a one way road 

The result - one of the most unbalanced ,largest , demotivated ,  certainly the most expensive , squads we’ve ever had if not THE 

He also , together with £500 p.a Swiss Tony left us with one hell of a financial mess

 

Oh yes , .......he did really well

[Bristol Oil Services]

33 minutes ago, Riaz said:

We had a ridiculous amount of games up until the middle of january. With injuries, the players in the team, played saturday tuesday saturday, from august to january, thanks to the League cup run.

I think becuase of this, we ran out of steam

Bradford managed promotion from L2 and a League Cup run with one more game than our cup run in 2012/13. And four FA Cup games, three more than us in 17/18. They did ok for "steam."

Footballers get "tired" or run out of "steam" for all sorts of reasons, not all of them because of playing lots of games. How many times have we heard footballers saying they'd prefer to play than train? We just do not know for certain why we fell away that season.

I don't think Diedhiou can have been "tired," he didn't play any games from Palace in October until his return to fitness. Kent and Diony cannot have been tired from that schedule either. Diony didn't run out of steam, he never had any in the first place.

The following season, we got into April, and with the play-off "finishing line" in sight and Derby lagging behind us, we "ran out of steam" again. This time, with no "ridiculous amount of games" to point to. 

[Logical-City]

48 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Did he ? Really ?

You're not an accountant clearly 

He didn’t do ‘well’ in the Championship either 

What did he achieve ? 

I’ll tell ya

He inherited a slim quad with some excellent players , four of whom went onto Premier League Football

He was allowed to enhance that squad with Tomlin & Co .... ‘saved us from relegation’ (If you believe so)

and 18 months later , despite being indulged in various new acquisitions including Tammy and Tomlin on a permanent etc  , we avoided releagation in the penultimate game with a surprise win at promoted Brighton 

What followed was an indulgent real life game of football manager , acquiring , and discarding player after player and constantly tinkering with selections , formations and tactics ...........and talking complete b********

Once Cotts players had been sold or discarded , he was lost ,   it was a one way road 

The result - one of the most unbalanced ,largest , demotivated ,  certainly the most expensive , squads we’ve ever had if not THE 

He also , together with £500 p.a Swiss Tony left us with one hell of a financial mess

 

Oh yes , .......he did really well

Weiman, DaSilva, Bentley are regulars at the moment all Johnson buys Massengo if he doesn’t throw his toys out of the pram can still be a massive player for us this season in potentially our first promotion to the Premiership I would call those 4 great buys and dare I say history makers…

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Logical-City

[Oh Louie louie]

Grant smith, and heywood.

Like fishes out of water at a decent club.

Smith scored against the gas if my memorys right.

[2015]

5 minutes ago, Logical-City said:

Weiman, DaSilva, Bentley are regulars at the moment all Johnson buys Massengo if he doesn’t throw his toys out of the pram can still be a massive player for us this season in potentially our first promotion to the Premiership I would call those 4 great buys and dare I say history makers…

 

Yeah and who is getting the best out of these players? Because Johnson certainly didn't.

[Offside]

3 hours ago, Ian M said:

Everyone remembers that defeat against Wolves in 17/18 precipitating the end of our season as you can see from the results that followed...

But, they also did for us the next season too when beating us in the FA Cup (we had won 9 games in a row leading into this game)...

We finished 4 points outside the play-offs. I bet LJ really dislikes Wolves.

I really dislike Wolves as well to be honest.  We’ve had some horrible results against them through the years. 

[Ian M]

2 minutes ago, Offside said:

I really dislike Wolves as well to be honest.  We’ve had some horrible results against them through the years. 

David ******* Kelly

[Sheltons Army]

13 minutes ago, Logical-City said:

Weiman, DaSilva, Bentley are regulars at the moment all Johnson buys Massengo if he doesn’t throw his toys out of the pram can still be a massive player for us this season in potentially our first promotion to the Premiership I would call those 4 great buys and dare I say history makers…

 

Shame about virtually all the other 50 odd eh

Id call that severe clutching at straws tbh

If by some miracle make the Premier League , I don’t think it will be down to Johnson in any way shape or form 

Weimann very good buy , Bentley very good , JD potentially

Just a shame he couldn’t get much out of them and it’s required a decent manager to do so

 

[Oh Louie louie]

I wonder how many steve bull scored against us.

Some statto might no.