'Wasters' 'Downed Tools',.....

[Roger Red Hat]

...I haven't seen 'lost the dressing room' yet. Which other hackneyed old phrases have we not yet seen at this troubling time...

 

[lenred]

Just now, Roger Red Hat said:

...I haven't seen 'lost the dressing room' yet. Which other hackneyed old phrases have we not yet seen at this troubling time...

 

Seen people saying on here that the ‘players aren’t playing for him’.  Pretty much the same thing! 

[Clutton Caveman]

20 minutes ago, lenred said:

Seen people saying on here that the ‘players aren’t playing for him’.  Pretty much the same thing! 

There must be something wrong to see such a swing in performances from 1 week to the next.

The latest strange Nig line ups like at Boro feels a bit like LJ towards the end. Shuffling the pack without any clear logic and hoping for the best. I hate it when NP talks about "they" so much like he and they are not in the same boat. I guess worst case for him is, we drop into bottom 3, he gets sacked with a nice top up to his pension fund. Clearly we have no money to improve the team so we have to coach them individually and as a team to grind out results. It seems to me that the kids tutored by Tins have far more idea of what they are doing then the older heads coached by NP and his team.

I wonder what he seeks to achieve by week after week saying "just not good enough" aimed at the players. Surely his selection at Boro was not good enough because if they had any luck they would have hammered us. The team last night was not good enough and it appeared that they had been given no plan to work to. Fine when a player has an off day BUT when the whole team looks like a bunch of strangers it has to go down to the coaching staff. Some lessons learned I think.

a) Forget Martin he is slow beyond believe and we play Warnock ball when he is on the field.

b) Understand that our squad is thin and if we want to win any match we have to play our best team. If we wanted out of this cup why not play the entire 21's because at least they would play as a team. and would not risk players needed to avoid relegation.

c) Accept that we are in a relegation battle. Pick your best 11 and play them whenever they are fit

Finally NP accept that if the team plays poorly you are as much to blame as they are. You plan the tactics, you pick the team, you decide what is done in training and you are responsible for motivation and player coaching. Stop looking smug at each interview and get up for the fight as a part of the team not as an outside observer.

 

[Red DNA]

14 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

 

a) Forget Martin he is slow beyond believe and we play Warnock ball when he is on the field.

b) Understand that our squad is thin and if we want to win any match we have to play our best team. If we wanted out of this cup why not play the entire 21's because at least they would play as a team. and would not risk players needed to avoid relegation.

 

This is about it in a nutshell. 

Hopefully we won’t see Martin start again except in an emergency. 
Last night we made 8 changes to the starting line up which tells me the club doesn’t want the distraction of any cup games to impede our fight for survival to avoid relegation, which is annoying but understandable especially if senior players got injured. 

If a entire U21 team was put out it probably would have played better as a unit but a lot of fans would not have turned up or demanded to pay U21 prices and the club didn’t want that either?  

[Redrascal2]

27 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

There must be something wrong to see such a swing in performances from 1 week to the next.

The latest strange Nig line ups like at Boro feels a bit like LJ towards the end. Shuffling the pack without any clear logic and hoping for the best. I hate it when NP talks about "they" so much like he and they are not in the same boat. I guess worst case for him is, we drop into bottom 3, he gets sacked with a nice top up to his pension fund. Clearly we have no money to improve the team so we have to coach them individually and as a team to grind out results. It seems to me that the kids tutored by Tins have far more idea of what they are doing then the older heads coached by NP and his team.

I wonder what he seeks to achieve by week after week saying "just not good enough" aimed at the players. Surely his selection at Boro was not good enough because if they had any luck they would have hammered us. The team last night was not good enough and it appeared that they had been given no plan to work to. Fine when a player has an off day BUT when the whole team looks like a bunch of strangers it has to go down to the coaching staff. Some lessons learned I think.

a) Forget Martin he is slow beyond believe and we play Warnock ball when he is on the field.

b) Understand that our squad is thin and if we want to win any match we have to play our best team. If we wanted out of this cup why not play the entire 21's because at least they would play as a team. and would not risk players needed to avoid relegation.

c) Accept that we are in a relegation battle. Pick your best 11 and play them whenever they are fit

Finally NP accept that if the team plays poorly you are as much to blame as they are. You plan the tactics, you pick the team, you decide what is done in training and you are responsible for motivation and player coaching. Stop looking smug at each interview and get up for the fight as a part of the team not as an outside observer.

 

Good post.

[old_eastender]

28 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

There must be something wrong to see such a swing in performances from 1 week to the next.

The latest strange Nig line ups like at Boro feels a bit like LJ towards the end. Shuffling the pack without any clear logic and hoping for the best. I hate it when NP talks about "they" so much like he and they are not in the same boat. I guess worst case for him is, we drop into bottom 3, he gets sacked with a nice top up to his pension fund. Clearly we have no money to improve the team so we have to coach them individually and as a team to grind out results. It seems to me that the kids tutored by Tins have far more idea of what they are doing then the older heads coached by NP and his team.

I wonder what he seeks to achieve by week after week saying "just not good enough" aimed at the players. Surely his selection at Boro was not good enough because if they had any luck they would have hammered us. The team last night was not good enough and it appeared that they had been given no plan to work to. Fine when a player has an off day BUT when the whole team looks like a bunch of strangers it has to go down to the coaching staff. Some lessons learned I think.

a) Forget Martin he is slow beyond believe and we play Warnock ball when he is on the field.

b) Understand that our squad is thin and if we want to win any match we have to play our best team. If we wanted out of this cup why not play the entire 21's because at least they would play as a team. and would not risk players needed to avoid relegation.

c) Accept that we are in a relegation battle. Pick your best 11 and play them whenever they are fit

Finally NP accept that if the team plays poorly you are as much to blame as they are. You plan the tactics, you pick the team, you decide what is done in training and you are responsible for motivation and player coaching. Stop looking smug at each interview and get up for the fight as a part of the team not as an outside observer.

 

All good points.

I didn't have an issue with the starting line-up, even get why he picked the WSM front line again in the hope Semenyo might come good. However when we got to HT 0-2, I do not understand why NP didn't hook Martin & Semenyo and bring on Conway, Wells and Scott to start the 2nd half. We might then have got back into the game. It's not the first time NP has ploughed on with players not performing in the game, instead of taking decisive action to change things.

 

[eardun]

On the match day thread, I saw a lot of positive comments about the line-up and personally I thought it was ok. On the bright side, though, it does show us with certainty who should be starting for us as some of the following still look on form/ready: Conway and Wells up front; James and Scott in midfield; Pring (probably as LCB given our injuries); O’Leary; Vyner; I would keep Weimann at RWB as he can least get forward and cross and he has not been performing as well recently in his role behind the front two; Dasilva (if Pring has to play at CB.) This leaves a CB position up for grabs - unless Kalas or Naismith are back (unlikely) I’d go for Atkinson (if fit) over Klose and play him in the middle (Vyner right, Pring left). And the role behind the front two - Semenyo doesn’t look right so I would bench him. I’d be inclined to try Sykes there as I think we need Scott in the middle two given Joe Williams’ poor form and this is the position I expected us to see Sykes when we signed him. Anyway hope we see these players on Saturday. 

[Sir Geoff]

There was no lack of effort ( Semenyo aside) or not playing for the manager imo. Our players were just not very good. Poor passing, no movement off the ball, can't hit a shot on target from 6/10 yards ( Semenyo again), inability to cross a ball or run past an opponent with it. Bottling challenges (Semenyo). There was just a shocking lack of ability all over the pitch.

[Shuffle]

18 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

There was no lack of effort ( Semenyo aside) or not playing for the manager imo. Our players were just not very good. Poor passing, no movement off the ball, can't hit a shot on target from 6/10 yards ( Semenyo again), inability to cross a ball or run past an opponent with it. Bottling challenges (Semenyo). There was just a shocking lack of ability all over the pitch.

You can add Sykes into the category of bottling tackles. He gets there then slows up so he avoids the tackle . He didn’t start like this and indeed sent off for challenge on Freeman but you can see his confidence ebbing away each week. 

[NewquayRed]

Might just see a massive bounce back on Saturday as this cant be pleasant reading for any of them - COYR

[Whitestsadhat]

Same old story with City players.  No heart!

 

[Bazooka Joe]

15 minutes ago, Whitestsadhat said:

Same old story with City players.  No heart!

 

Some may consider this is a heartless comment.... but many will agree.

A few players are giving just 50%, so they can, at least, be considered "half-hearted".

[W-S-M Seagull]

I wouldn't even put Martin or Semenyo in the 18. 

I think whatever personal issues Klose had in the summer, has impacted his performances. He's not been the same. 

If there is a way to come to a mutual decision with him in Jan then I'm all for that. 

[lenred]

32 minutes ago, NewquayRed said:

Might just see a massive bounce back on Saturday as this cant be pleasant reading for any of them - COYR

Some of them were told in no uncertain terms after the game  last night that it wasn’t good enough and because there was no bugger there they could certainly hear the ‘feedback’!  Hopefully there is a positive reaction come Saturday as last night was completely unacceptable. 

[JoeAman08]

55 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

There was no lack of effort ( Semenyo aside) or not playing for the manager imo. Our players were just not very good. Poor passing, no movement off the ball, can't hit a shot on target from 6/10 yards ( Semenyo again), inability to cross a ball or run past an opponent with it. Bottling challenges (Semenyo). There was just a shocking lack of ability all over the pitch.

Other than Kadji and Low it was a very experienced lineup. That is not a talent issue. It is a tactical issue imo. The formation is far too conservative. 3 at the back easy to pin the wingbacks back. The 2 in midfield sit deep. It basically asks the front 3 to perform miracles which Weimann, Conway and Wells often can. When you throw Martin out there it takes the movement and pace out of the mix without any sort of presence that bothers professional cbs. You often get this large gap between the front 3 and midfield. 

[tin]

Semenyo’s playing a dangerous game IMO. If he’s not scoring goals, what chance as he got of playing at the WC or moving to a bigger club? His performances have nosedived since he changed agent. 

Martin’s been sulking ever since the emergence of Conway and the resurgence of Wells. He’s no longer the main man and he doesn’t like that IMO. For an experienced pro, I’m disappointed in his attitude. 

Sykes doesn’t do it for me. He offers little going forward and I feel for whoever the poor sod is at RCB as he offers them no protection. Yes, he’s a Nige signing, but he’s also a reflection of us shopping in Poundland because of our financial situation IMO. 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

There must be something wrong to see such a swing in performances from 1 week to the next.

The latest strange Nig line ups like at Boro feels a bit like LJ towards the end. Shuffling the pack without any clear logic and hoping for the best. I hate it when NP talks about "they" so much like he and they are not in the same boat. I guess worst case for him is, we drop into bottom 3, he gets sacked with a nice top up to his pension fund. Clearly we have no money to improve the team so we have to coach them individually and as a team to grind out results. It seems to me that the kids tutored by Tins have far more idea of what they are doing then the older heads coached by NP and his team.

I wonder what he seeks to achieve by week after week saying "just not good enough" aimed at the players. Surely his selection at Boro was not good enough because if they had any luck they would have hammered us. The team last night was not good enough and it appeared that they had been given no plan to work to. Fine when a player has an off day BUT when the whole team looks like a bunch of strangers it has to go down to the coaching staff. Some lessons learned I think.

a) Forget Martin he is slow beyond believe and we play Warnock ball when he is on the field.

b) Understand that our squad is thin and if we want to win any match we have to play our best team. If we wanted out of this cup why not play the entire 21's because at least they would play as a team. and would not risk players needed to avoid relegation.

c) Accept that we are in a relegation battle. Pick your best 11 and play them whenever they are fit

Finally NP accept that if the team plays poorly you are as much to blame as they are. You plan the tactics, you pick the team, you decide what is done in training and you are responsible for motivation and player coaching. Stop looking smug at each interview and get up for the fight as a part of the team not as an outside observer.

 

I actually think he's doing all he can, I mean I don't see a lack of commitment from the younger players, it seems to be the players who should be able to inspire the youngsters that seem to be going out to pick up to ensure they get their pay.

Martin plays like a man waiting to leave, which he probably is due to Conway hitting the ground running, Wells being back in the team and the attack being built around the type of football he doesn't suit. Klose looks half the player he was last season and I've got to put that down to him not wanting to lead the back line and his contract ticking down with younger players looking to be fed into the team. We seem to have a lot of older heads who just aren't leading. King for example, Pearson no doubt brought him in because he knew him and thought he'd be able to rub off some of his experience and attitude but that doesn't seem to have happened. I think Pearson has brought in good players with good intentions and they've left him down. Yes he made those decisions so they're on him but I doubt he was told by those players that they didn't intend to help or make the effort required which is probably why he's so frustrated. 

I don't think for a second Pearson has given up, I think the reason we played the youngsters in yesterday's match was in hope that they'd do well and the older players may actually see that they have to perform to be picked, unfortunately we're so lacking in numbers that it's not worked out that way as the younger players were hung out to dry. 

I feel sorry for Low, he was especially left high and dry, Klose didn't try to help him and nor did Sykes, I think I actually would have preferred Vyner in the middle as for all his faults when he's on the right hand side of the back three he showed he was a solid leader when he played in the middle and he helped Tanner and Print out a lot. 

I think Klose knows he's done and won't get a new contract but Pearson has to use him as we're missing a lot of our center backs. Klose has no reason to play really, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired at the end of the season but after last year's performances I can see why he was brought back, he looked motivated and performed well, arguably being our best CB at times. 

Martin, well, he's pretty much choice 6 of our 6 strikers, it's not surprising he's lost his fight.

With regards to the rest of the squad I think Wells gives his all most games, James still seems driven too and the younger players with the exception of Semenyo look driven. Weimann always gives his all but I think he's currently frustrated as he probably wants that striker role after last season but Conway and Wells work better together and Pearson knows Weimann will run all game long so it's better in that behind the strikers role as he adds constant pressure. 

If we get a new manager in I worry that some of the youth may not play as much, we'll end up with more players who have no drive and become even more likely to become relegation fodder. I think Pearson needs to be given until February at least so we can see what his plan is. I personally think its to run down contracts of overpaid players, move them on and get in some players who can actually get the bit between their teeth. 

[maxjak]

4 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

...I haven't seen 'lost the dressing room' yet. Which other hackneyed old phrases have we not yet seen at this troubling time...

 

"Embarrassing Rabble" has a nice ring to it?

[CliftonCliff]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

"Embarrassing Rabble" has a nice ring to it?

"Stealing a living" is usually a big favourite with the cliché merchants: surprised we haven't seen that tired old insult rolled out again in the last 24 hours. 

[Top Robin]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

I actually think he's doing all he can, I mean I don't see a lack of commitment from the younger players, it seems to be the players who should be able to inspire the youngsters that seem to be going out to pick up to ensure they get their pay.

Martin plays like a man waiting to leave, which he probably is due to Conway hitting the ground running, Wells being back in the team and the attack being built around the type of football he doesn't suit. Klose looks half the player he was last season and I've got to put that down to him not wanting to lead the back line and his contract ticking down with younger players looking to be fed into the team. We seem to have a lot of older heads who just aren't leading. King for example, Pearson no doubt brought him in because he knew him and thought he'd be able to rub off some of his experience and attitude but that doesn't seem to have happened. I think Pearson has brought in good players with good intentions and they've left him down. Yes he made those decisions so they're on him but I doubt he was told by those players that they didn't intend to help or make the effort required which is probably why he's so frustrated. 

I don't think for a second Pearson has given up, I think the reason we played the youngsters in yesterday's match was in hope that they'd do well and the older players may actually see that they have to perform to be picked, unfortunately we're so lacking in numbers that it's not worked out that way as the younger players were hung out to dry. 

I feel sorry for Low, he was especially left high and dry, Klose didn't try to help him and nor did Sykes, I think I actually would have preferred Vyner in the middle as for all his faults when he's on the right hand side of the back three he showed he was a solid leader when he played in the middle and he helped Tanner and Print out a lot. 

I think Klose knows he's done and won't get a new contract but Pearson has to use him as we're missing a lot of our center backs. Klose has no reason to play really, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired at the end of the season but after last year's performances I can see why he was brought back, he looked motivated and performed well, arguably being our best CB at times. 

Martin, well, he's pretty much choice 6 of our 6 strikers, it's not surprising he's lost his fight.

With regards to the rest of the squad I think Wells gives his all most games, James still seems driven too and the younger players with the exception of Semenyo look driven. Weimann always gives his all but I think he's currently frustrated as he probably wants that striker role after last season but Conway and Wells work better together and Pearson knows Weimann will run all game long so it's better in that behind the strikers role as he adds constant pressure. 

If we get a new manager in I worry that some of the youth may not play as much, we'll end up with more players who have no drive and become even more likely to become relegation fodder. I think Pearson needs to be given until February at least so we can see what his plan is. I personally think its to run down contracts of overpaid players, move them on and get in some players who can actually get the bit between their teeth. 

February may be too late

[pillred]

3 hours ago, NewquayRed said:

Might just see a massive bounce back on Saturday as this cant be pleasant reading for any of them - COYR

I doubt the players come on here especially so after the shambles of last night. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

7 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

...I haven't seen 'lost the dressing room' yet. Which other hackneyed old phrases have we not yet seen at this troubling time...

 

"I've been supporting City since before I was born and this the worst team I have  seen since the 17th Century"

"Un-sackable"

"Un-droppable"

"Sunday Downs league"

"I told you this would happen"

 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, CliftonCliff said:

"Stealing a living" is usually a big favourite with the cliché merchants: surprised we haven't seen that tired old insult rolled out again in the last 24 hours. 

On the beach?   Is that even a thing in November?

[Bris Red]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I wouldn't even put Martin or Semenyo in the 18. 

I think whatever personal issues Klose had in the summer, has impacted his performances. He's not been the same. 

If there is a way to come to a mutual decision with him in Jan then I'm all for that. 

I don’t think Pearson will be letting Klose or Martin go anywhere in January unless adequate replacements can be brought in.

I know both have been poor this season but better to have them in the squad then not at all will be the Nige’s thinking IMO. 
 

[Roger Red Hat]

We need to have a 'hackneyed cliche' bingo competition ready for Saturday. Just imagine if we're doing badly, we could have a full house!

 

Just thought of another, 'Get Warnock in for the rest of the season to give them a kick up the backside/sort it out'

[ralphindevon]

59 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

We need to have a 'hackneyed cliche' bingo competition ready for Saturday. Just imagine if we're doing badly, we could have a full house!

 

Just thought of another, 'Get Warnock in for the rest of the season to give them a kick up the backside/sort it out'

Yeah the Warnock one gets me.

Like all that’s missing is Warnock to go in the dressing room swearing for an hour and we’re promotion candidates.

Oddly, the other person they used to say it about was Nigel Pearson- ‘he won’t put up with the slackers’ ‘he won’t allow any sub par performances’……….

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

There must be something wrong to see such a swing in performances from 1 week to the next.

The latest strange Nig line ups like at Boro feels a bit like LJ towards the end. Shuffling the pack without any clear logic and hoping for the best.

I think we saw last night why Nige resorted to playing Semenyo and Weimann at WB v Boro.  The performances of Dasilva and Sykes warranted a change.

I hate it when NP talks about "they" so much like he and they are not in the same boat. I guess worst case for him is, we drop into bottom 3, he gets sacked with a nice top up to his pension fund. Clearly we have no money to improve the team so we have to coach them individually and as a team to grind out results. It seems to me that the kids tutored by Tins have far more idea of what they are doing then the older heads coached by NP and his team.

that sounds very selective.  Who do you class in each “camp”?

I wonder what he seeks to achieve by week after week saying "just not good enough" aimed at the players. Surely his selection at Boro was not good enough because if they had any luck they would have hammered us. The team last night was not good enough and it appeared that they had been given no plan to work to. Fine when a player has an off day BUT when the whole team looks like a bunch of strangers it has to go down to the coaching staff. Some lessons learned I think.

a) Forget Martin he is slow beyond believe and we play Warnock ball when he is on the field.

b) Understand that our squad is thin and if we want to win any match we have to play our best team. If we wanted out of this cup why not play the entire 21's because at least they would play as a team. and would not risk players needed to avoid relegation.

because he thought he might be able to mix and match and still get through.

c) Accept that we are in a relegation battle. Pick your best 11 and play them whenever they are fit

until they all burn out - at the same time?    seriously though I’m sure he’d like to be able to pick from his core of better players most games.  The problems is the ones that are t quite good enough, who get exposed when the core isn’t there to cover them.

Finally NP accept that if the team plays poorly you are as much to blame as they are. You plan the tactics, you pick the team, you decide what is done in training and you are responsible for motivation and player coaching. Stop looking smug at each interview and get up for the fight as a part of the team not as an outside observer.

 

6 hours ago, Shuffle said:

You can add Sykes into the category of bottling tackles. He gets there then slows up so he avoids the tackle . He didn’t start like this and indeed sent off for challenge on Freeman but you can see his confidence ebbing away each week. 

He’s beginning to feel like O’Dowda for me in many ways.

[1960maaan]

48 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Oddly, the other person they used to say it about was Nigel Pearson- ‘he won’t put up with the slackers’ ‘he won’t allow any sub par performances’……….

Pre illness that may have been true, but he's changed a lot. He said as much himself, he is much calmer and studied ..... it's a shame really.

[Always red]

16 hours ago, CrackingCheeseGromit said:

On the beach?   Is that even a thing in November?

With the World Cup it is!

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Pre illness that may have been true, but he's changed a lot. He said as much himself, he is much calmer and studied ..... it's a shame really.

Perhaps modern players have changed too, does that method work with them so well now?

Not saying I'm opposed to it, but I wonder.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous