Here he is. The Messiah is to blame

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 hours ago, frenchred said:

Most of that was spunked by him to make up for mistakes made by............ Him! 

Partly yes, partly no IMO.

Some of this was on infrastructure for a start and beyond that, while he did pay for his mistakes on the pitch, indeed still is the truth is that the Championship is also a horribly expensive business if you have ambitions to be up the top end.

Not even talking wage bill but the amount of cash needed just to sustain in a lot of cases. A lot of Championship clubs truly burn through cash.

(There is also a belief among some that the infrastructure investment is for his ultimate profit but that's another debate).

Then again there are clubs who do a lot more with less so it's a tough one.

[Clutton Caveman]

17 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Well, well, well.

Here we are again. Wasn’t long ago that Korey smacked it home, we were deliriously delighted and Bobby scored from the spot.

Now we’re ****** over by the boys in Lincoln green. The call goes out. Nige is a clown. He has to go.

But all’s well in Planet Lansdown. The Messiah has deep pockets. We shall be grateful. We have a lovely stadium - I’ll grant ‘ee Steve - The Killers were superb.

He’s got his medal - services to sport? His home city? Making us proud?

He’s had to contend with Covid. And all that brought with it. Was there an opportunity to offer up AG for immunisation jabs? Did he do so out of the goodness of his heart? Anyone know?

He’s had to endure the issues around FFP. And for a professional investor he’s done that very well…. He let Ashton in and **** us over. He let Junior take up the reins and **** it up.

And now we have good old Tinman in a new role…. Who remembers the sorry state of Swansea affairs when “the legend” sat in the dug out as the lights were turned off?

Job for the boys? Don’t challenge me. Go now Nige. Go now. Self preservation. Like Mr Coppell…..

But it’s ok. We are grateful. Steve is doing a great job. For Steve and his merry, proud gang…..

Am I grateful? Am I bollocks. The only one who’s done well out of this debacle whilst Capn Steve has had his hands on the udders of the cash cow in BS3 is the Messiah himself.

Freeholds in Ashton Vale anyone?

Worse cash cow I have ever heard of. More like a money pit

[Clutton Caveman]

1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Hold on. This is drifting off topic. It’s not meant to be about Nige. It’s all about the Lansdowns.

You remember them. They who can’t do a thing wrong. They who dig deep and put their own funds in. All out of an altruistic value.

Or they who’ve invested big time in an asset. A cash cow. They who’ve deliberately identified an under performing asset and who now own - lock, stock and barrel - some very valuable freeholds in BS3.

Ashton Vale anyone? How many acres did Steve ride his Trojan Horse into there?

Might seem extreme and provocative - and it is and it’s meant to be - but I don’t buy the vision. I don’t see it.

How can anyone be so successful in part of their life and make, what seems  to be, an almighty **** up in another.

Discuss….

Oh and twasn’t cider. Twas Elvis Juice and Hazy Jane….

Seems to me that in some peoples opinion the worse thing you can do in life is to be successful. Yes he has heaps of money but as a young man he took loads of risks and worked hours that many would never even know existed. What he now choses to do with his money is his choice. Would you prefer owners like Birmingham or Hull have? It seems to me that some former players who had it all but chose to be more committed to Thatchers than football are somehow more respected. Do I detect a hint of reverse snobery, or not one of the people c**p

[robin_unreliant]

18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Then again there are clubs who do a lot more with less so it's a tough one.

I don't see any mystery in why other clubs have done more with less. It is very simple. Whenever journos ask NP how we can solve our problems on the pitch his answer is get better players. Recruitment - that is where BCFC has repeatedly wasted its money. 

SC and Birt recruited brilliantly well for L1 and SC had a few players he wanted that we know turned out as quality at Championship level (Gray and Maguire) but SL refused to back him. 

We have failed miserably with recruitment and SL gave money to people who were inept at spending it. I have a feeling NP would do better on this given chance but I am beginning to feel he will be gone before the financials allow us to spend anything. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by robin_unreliant

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Alex_BCFC said:

He’s not done as well as hoped given the amount of money he’s put in. But I don’t see a load of people rushing in to take over and he’s ever said he’d consider offers etc. No one has ever come forward. Reason for that is it’s just spunking money up the wall generally. We are fortunate we have someone who can keep us going given what has happened to other clubs.

I get the feeling he isn’t realistic about a sale price. Either that or he is asking potential owners to cover the debt accrued over the years? Idk how it works really but he said earlier in the year he is looking for investment and it would have to be substantial not something like 1-2m. So what is he looking for? 8 figures? Didn’t Derby and Hull recently sell for around 20m? Did the new owners take on debt? 
 

Guess what I wonder is what would be a good sale price for city? 

[BigAl&Toby]

27 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

If anyone actually believes that Steve Lansdown has made a profit from his ownership of Bristol City, or will in the future, they are deluded. A cash cow it is certainly not.

 

Bollocks.

Why do it then? Cash cow it is. His hands are on her teats squeezing away.

If not Steve then Junior. Or Junior’s Junior.

Steve’s legacy.  You really think he’d squander his hard earned cash? 

Funds invested by the ultimate beneficial owner. All fully secured.

And then there’s Ashton Vale……

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I don't see any mystery in why other clubs have done more with less. It is very simple. Whenever journos ask NP how we can solve our problems on the pitch his answer is get better players. Recruitment - that is where BCFC has repeatedly wasted its money. 

SC and Birt recruited brilliantly well for L1 and SC had a few players he wanted that we know turned out as quality at Championship level (Gray and Maguire) but SL refused to back him. 

We have failed miserably with recruitment and SL gave money to people who were inept at spending it. I have a feeling NP would do better on this given chance but I am beginning to feel he will be gone before the financials allow us to spend anything. 

Trust me, look at some other clubs be they of a similar profile, yoyo the latter higher profile to see how much shares and cash can be poured in! This isn't the same as revenue of course but some of these can make SL look a bit of a pauper at times timeframe wise!

This is fair but there are no guarantees in this industry. I still stand by my view that there might have been an FFP issue had we signed Maguire and Gray at that time, the numbers give some indication that it could have been possible.

Cotts himself could have shown a bit more patience in year 1, toughed it out and revenue naturally would have risen in 2016-17 which would have benefited him and not Lee Johnson (revenue up £7m in 2016-17 from 2015-16).

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I get the feeling he isn’t realistic about a sale price. Either that or he is asking potential owners to cover the debt accrued over the years? Idk how it works really but he said earlier in the year he is looking for investment and it would have to be substantial not something like 1-2m. So what is he looking for? 8 figures? Didn’t Derby and Hull recently sell for around 20m? Did the new owners take on debt? 
 

Guess what I wonder is what would be a good sale price for city? 

In the case of Hull, the owner was clawing back debt over the years, unsure how much without checking years worth of accounts. Ever since the fans turned on him for Hull City Tigers idea, the taps went off somewhat and he started getting his loans repaid.

I guess Mel Morris wrote off his at Derby, and in any event him putting them into administration may have forced his hand somewhat.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Roadrunner]

Congrats Steve.

[BigAl&Toby]

31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Partly yes, partly no IMO.

Some of this was on infrastructure for a start and beyond that, while he did pay for his mistakes on the pitch, indeed still is the truth is that the Championship is also a horribly expensive business if you have ambitions to be up the top end.

Not even talking wage bill but the amount of cash needed just to sustain in a lot of cases. A lot of Championship clubs truly burn through cash.

(There is also a belief among some that the infrastructure investment is for his ultimate profit but that's another debate).

Then again there are clubs who do a lot more with less so it's a tough one.

@Mr Popodopolous it’s not another debate. It’s tied in intrinsically with this one.

He’s the banker. He invests. He secures that investment - as his absolute right to do.

But it’s an investment - a shrewd one - nevertheless. He, or companies where he’s the beneficial owner, hold all the cards. Or chips.

He might not cash them in. But at some point they’ll be cashed in. Perhaps when Ashton Vale is ready…..

[red panda]

45 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Bollocks.

Why do it then? Cash cow it is. His hands are on her teats squeezing away.

If not Steve then Junior. Or Junior’s Junior.

Steve’s legacy.  You really think he’d squander his hard earned cash? 

Funds invested by the ultimate beneficial owner. All fully secured.

And then there’s Ashton Vale……

I can't tell whether you actually believe this, or are just trolling, and I'm not sure which is the most depressing

[frenchred]

2 hours ago, Alex_BCFC said:

He’s not done as well as hoped given the amount of money he’s put in. But I don’t see a load of people rushing in to take over and he’s ever said he’d consider offers etc. No one has ever come forward. Reason for that is it’s just spunking money up the wall generally. We are fortunate we have someone who can keep us going given what has happened to other clubs.

Reason being what would one be buying? 

A stadium? Nope

Training ground? Nope

Failing team built by him? Yes

[BTRFTG]

59 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Bollocks.

Why do it then? Cash cow it is. His hands are on her teats squeezing away.

If not Steve then Junior. Or Junior’s Junior.

Steve’s legacy.  You really think he’d squander his hard earned cash? 

Funds invested by the ultimate beneficial owner. All fully secured.

And then there’s Ashton Vale……

The more deluded the funnier this gets.

Do you know how to read accounts?

In case not let's keep it simple.

If you took EVERYTHING OWNED by (OR DUE) the various enterprises wrapped up in the holding company (that's nothing in respect of Ashton Vale,) and SUBTRACTED ALL LIABILITIES OWED, including shareholder capital and loans at base, issue price, then.....

Ta Da .....

You be IN DEBT to the tune of £170m & counting.

If that's a cash cow, who'd want to be a farmer?

[Numero Uno]

18 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

But pro rata does not pay the bills unless you are in administration, which could have been if we did not have an owner with such deep pockets.

So sure you will say paying for his mistakes, if that is putting money in to back managers etc who purchase and pick the team. But it's easy with hind sight to say it was all wrong.

Bit like you being able to provide last weeks lottery  numbers, easy after the event

It’s not that straightforward is it? After the event as you call it is a 20 plus year stretch. What we are trying to do now should have been done many years ago. Whether you support Nige implementing it or not we at least have something in place that resembles a plan. That took a while to implement.

Obviously you have to be grateful we have a guy at the top that pays for the mistakes he allowed others to make with his money. Nobody can be that ungrateful but an alternative way of looking at it is has Steve spent his £214m wisely? There are other owners out there at clubs like Brentford that haven’t pissed that level of spen up the wall. That’s what the op is getting at really?

Last point - Steve is most definitely NOT £214m down on the deal if he cashes all his chips in.

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s not that straightforward is it? After the event as you call it is a 20 plus year stretch. What we are trying to do now should have been done many years ago. Whether you support Nige implementing it or not we at least have something in place that resembles a plan. That took a while to implement.

Obviously you have to be grateful we have a guy at the top that pays for the mistakes he allowed others to make with his money. Nobody can be that ungrateful but an alternative way of looking at it is has Steve spent his £214m wisely? There are other owners out there at clubs like Brentford that haven’t pissed that level of spen up the wall. That’s what the op is getting at really?

Last point - Steve is most definitely NOT £214m down on the deal if he cashes all his chips in.

Agree with chunks of this.

He hasn't or rather those he has entrusted to spend haven't, spent so wisely at times.

Possibly too stuck at the wrong times and twisted at others! January 2008 is a good example of when a bigger push might have got us over the line.

Likewise we arguably could have gone a bit bigger in January 2019- another CM and example striker for depth wouldn't have gone amiss for example. We were not far from the playoffs that year...not far at all. We were in a comfortable FFP position and that didn't even include the sale of Kelly which came in mid May 2019.

In theory we could really have gone for it in 2019-20 or 2020-2021, talking a do it in one gambling that it would be enough to see us over the line. Had we stuck another £20m (wages, loan fees plus amortisation) into one of these seasons might we have gone up? Well we'll never know and the consequences if not would have been dire!

Otoh we spent increasing amounts predicated on buoyant and perhaps rising transfer profits. That was reckless to say the least!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Brentford are a good example actually because I looked the other day at a few of their signings in the same period in which we were spending bigger than now certainly.

Benrahma and Maupay cost less than Diedhiou fee wise.

Not individually but as a collective. I know we were linked with Watkins but were Benrahma or Maupay (both French based) on our radar at all??

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Brentford

Benrahma- summer 2017, £1.8m

Maupay, summer 2017, £1.6m

Us

Diedhiou, summer 2017- £5-5.5m

The Brentford two were younger as well...and went for good to large fees.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[sh1t_ref_again]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s not that straightforward is it? After the event as you call it is a 20 plus year stretch. What we are trying to do now should have been done many years ago. Whether you support Nige implementing it or not we at least have something in place that resembles a plan. That took a while to implement.

Obviously you have to be grateful we have a guy at the top that pays for the mistakes he allowed others to make with his money. Nobody can be that ungrateful but an alternative way of looking at it is has Steve spent his £214m wisely? There are other owners out there at clubs like Brentford that haven’t pissed that level of spen up the wall. That’s what the op is getting at really?

Last point - Steve is most definitely NOT £214m down on the deal if he cashes all his chips in.

Don't think anyone would disagree including SL the money he has spent has not brought the success he hoped for when spending it. Although as pointed out before we are now considered an established championship side, where as years ago we were more of a league 2/3 side along with the gas, swindle, Plymouth etc. You picked Brentford, again that's with hindsight of a team that has done well and could be held as an example. Rightly or wrongly SL has had a plan and backed his managers / CEO with the hope it would get us to the prem, as we know that did not work out and caused us bigger issues now (added in with a dose of covid affecting football).

 Could 200+ million be spent better and had more success, of course it could, but there is no magic formula that guarantees success, added the restrictions of FFP and playing in a rigged competition where teams are given a £40 million pound head start,

If SL losses are reduced then good, but bear in mind its not just the actual money invested, its the money he could of made on that money over the 20 years.

I know SL is not perfect, but I feel lucky to have a club with a benefactor such as SL where I am not worried if and when they want out or we when will be in admiration.

As for those who want him out, not sure where the next billionaire is hanging around desperate to lose some money on a small football club in a city they have probable never heard of. 

[BTRFTG]

28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Brentford are a good example actually because I looked the other day at a few of their signings in the same period in which we were spending bigger than now certainly.

Benrahma and Maupay cost less than Diedhiou fee wise.

Not individually but as a collective. I know we were linked with Watkins but were Benrahma or Maupay (both French based) on our radar at all??

Had an interesting conversation once with one of their more respected supporters. He explained that whilst others considered it a waste of money Brentford invested (not cheap,) in DATA, not ex pros who thought themselves knowledgeable in the game. As mirrored at Leicester, Man City & Liverpool the data threw up a number of 'bargains' that weren't then high on anybody's radar.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Had an interesting conversation once with one of their more respected supporters. He explained that whilst others considered it a waste of money Brentford invested (not cheap,) in DATA, not ex pros who thought themselves knowledgeable in the game. As mirrored at Leicester, Man City & Liverpool the data threw up a number of 'bargains' that weren't then high on anybody's radar.

Their data based model has always been of interest to me. I have read too that it's a mix of traditional scouting and data? I wonder how some of those, perhaps Benrahma and Maupay to take an examples were sourced etc.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Had an interesting conversation once with one of their more respected supporters. He explained that whilst others considered it a waste of money Brentford invested (not cheap,) in DATA, not ex pros who thought themselves knowledgeable in the game. As mirrored at Leicester, Man City & Liverpool the data threw up a number of 'bargains' that weren't then high on anybody's radar.

They invested heavily in a huge scouting network too…eyes are the first part of their screening process.  Data confirmation / rejection next, then eyes again once narrowed down.

They did indeed get data experts though, proper data experts, not interns for zip like some clubs.
 

I was chatting to someone the other day who’d been approach by a league one club (not Rovers, although that would’ve been even funnier had it been them) asking if he could provide some data charts for a player they were looking at.  When he asked why they didn’t use their own data, the reply was “we haven’t got any”.  The next question was “and can you do it for free”.  A league one club.  I was shocked!  He said “piss off”!

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Their data based model has always been of interest to me. I have read too that it's a mix of traditional scouting and data? I wonder how some of those, perhaps Benrahma and Maupay to take an examples were sourced etc.

[BTRFTG]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Their data based model has always been of interest to me. I have read too that it's a mix of traditional scouting and data? I wonder how some of those, perhaps Benrahma and Maupay to take an examples were sourced etc.

It was said that data gave scouts players to review who otherwise weren't being discussed but also allowed the club to empirically reject some players who scouts were adamant should be acquired. Not rocket science but allowed them to ask the not unreasonable question, what does 'x' bring that we already don't have? I can only think had we done likewise we wouldn't have ended up with 8 midfielders all in their manager's likeness.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, BTRFTG said:

It was said that data gave scouts players to review who otherwise weren't being discussed but also allowed the club to empirically reject some players who scouts were adamant should be acquired. Not rocket science but allowed them to ask the not unreasonable question, what does 'x' bring that we already don't have? I can only think had we done likewise we wouldn't have ended up with 8 midfielders all in their manager's likeness.

That is a very good point.  It has to be two way.  Can’t just rely on the scout’s say-so…how do you critique the scout too.

Funnily enough I was speaking to a guy at Brentford about exactly this a few months back.  How do you know if the scout is reporting a player having his one “worldie” a season, or whether that’s there normal level.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Thanks both. Found an interesting quick read on it below, about to read it myself.

https://www.scoutedhub.com/post/design-a-stunning-blog

Said they had two scouts in France based on a quick read. Do wonder if Louis-Jean could have been that bridge, given his knowledge of the English and French game.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Don't think anyone would disagree including SL the money he has spent has not brought the success he hoped for when spending it. Although as pointed out before we are now considered an established championship side, where as years ago we were more of a league 2/3 side along with the gas, swindle, Plymouth etc. You picked Brentford, again that's with hindsight of a team that has done well and could be held as an example. Rightly or wrongly SL has had a plan and backed his managers / CEO with the hope it would get us to the prem, as we know that did not work out and caused us bigger issues now (added in with a dose of covid affecting football).

 Could 200+ million be spent better and had more success, of course it could, but there is no magic formula that guarantees success, added the restrictions of FFP and playing in a rigged competition where teams are given a £40 million pound head start,

If SL losses are reduced then good, but bear in mind its not just the actual money invested, its the money he could of made on that money over the 20 years.

I know SL is not perfect, but I feel lucky to have a club with a benefactor such as SL where I am not worried if and when they want out or we when will be in admiration.

As for those who want him out, not sure where the next billionaire is hanging around desperate to lose some money on a small football club in a city they have probable never heard of. 

Agree with a lot of that. We are now in a position where we need to cut our cloth because of past mistakes that we’re allowed to happen (albeit for the right reasons) BUT this is where people who support Steve but want to see the Manager canned need to be careful.

We have a plan, the right plan in our circumstances imo BUT panicking and sacking the Manager adds £2-3m to our football losses at a reasonable guess. We (Steve) spends that dosh and then the new Manager and Coaching team come in and say “how am I expected to work with kids and has beens?”. Then what?

FFP says we can barely spend money on reinforcements now but with a bit of wheeling and dealing we can probably add a couple in January. Add £2-3m in payouts to sacked staff and compo for new staff and we dont have a pot to piss in when Future transfer windows come round. If the new Manager can magic up consistency in youngsters and revert old un’s to their form of five years ago then great, if they can’t then we all know what is likely to happen.

[TV Tom]

Yes he’s awful, a truly awful decision appointing Pearson and even worse in not having sacked him yet, apart from that I’m glad he’s here

[sh1t_ref_again]

53 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Agree with a lot of that. We are now in a position where we need to cut our cloth because of past mistakes that we’re allowed to happen (albeit for the right reasons) BUT this is where people who support Steve but want to see the Manager canned need to be careful.

We have a plan, the right plan in our circumstances imo BUT panicking and sacking the Manager adds £2-3m to our football losses at a reasonable guess. We (Steve) spends that dosh and then the new Manager and Coaching team come in and say “how am I expected to work with kids and has beens?”. Then what?

FFP says we can barely spend money on reinforcements now but with a bit of wheeling and dealing we can probably add a couple in January. Add £2-3m in payouts to sacked staff and compo for new staff and we dont have a pot to piss in when Future transfer windows come round. If the new Manager can magic up consistency in youngsters and revert old un’s to their form of five years ago then great, if they can’t then we all know what is likely to happen.

Agree with this, people are quick to forget how well NP had us playing earlier in the season and too quick to ask for change.

We need to persist with NP and not panic into taking the club backwards

[Fuber]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:52, RedHienz said:

Oh right it's all Steve's fault! Thanks for cleaning that one up. 

Didn't realise people still necked 3litres of cider on a Thursday.

Our best upwards trajectory aside from GJ was under the period he nor Jon were chairman , under Keith Dawe.

I think that speaks volumes.

[KegCity]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:07, BTRFTG said:

Steve Lansdown has personally committed over £214m of his own money to ensure Bristol City FC remain trading such we may occasionally have an afternoon of fun at AG.

And you, what have you contributed to keep City trading?

And what does he have to show for it? Bottom end of mid table in the championship when he took over, some time in league one and now back to bottom end of mid table in the championship. Had a great evening v Man United and bottled a play off final, as well as winning trophies in a league we should never have been in. It’s not a great return on investment is it?

Personally think a lot of that money has been spent cleaning up his own mess. Very grateful he’s willing to keep bailing himself out, I’d rather he didn’t need to.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Agree with this, people are quick to forget how well NP had us playing earlier in the season and too quick to ask for change.

We need to persist with NP and not panic into taking the club backwards

Backwards hmm; he came here feb 21 when we were 11th with 33pts; since then his record is p85 w25, L41 D 19 We are currently 20th p20 and won SIX GAMES

So we have lost almost half the games played since he has arrived and currently have won less than a third of games played this season; how exactly is that already not taking us backwards.

Cant really see how one season wonder at Liecs is going to get us anywhere near his own target position this season.

I know SL`S record of decent manager selection is off the rubbish scale but he may get lucky next time as we are def on the slide with "Nige" its time to twist not stick.