Here he is. The Messiah is to blame

[sh1t_ref_again]

2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I'm no fan of MA. However, I am sure the model he followed was set by SL. 

 

How can you be sure! With respect you have no more clue than the rest of us  if it was SL's idea or not. Personally think it's more likely Swiss Tony the car salesman selling SL a vision of how he could trade players to overall improve the squad. With better recruitment strategy it could have worked. Either way SL accepted it and backed it with cash, unfortunately we all know it failed.

[IAmNick]

It's a genius plan really.

1. Make a fortune of some billions building a huge investment business and in the markets.

2. Buy a loss making football club, pump even more money into it, financially mismanage it, and be a few hundred million in the hole while still losing at least ten million every year.

3. Buy some land, build some houses, and sell them for considerably less than you spent on the club to date.

Now we just have to work out what step 3 has to do with 1 and 2 to uncover the master plan. 

Even if he sold it all and made £100m that's only a few % of his net worth, and when you consider the opportunity cost of the money it took over the time it took (over 20 years!) it's still not even close to worth it compared to other means at his disposal.

[robin_unreliant]

12 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

How can you be sure! With respect you have no more clue than the rest of us  if it was SL's idea or not. 

Of course, you are absolutely right. Mabe I should have used 'convinced'. I don't know - it is just my take on it. 

[Red-Robbo]

So, to recap in one sentence: Lansdown hasn't made any money out of football, and he could've bought and developed Ashton Vale without needing to own Bristol City. 

[BigAl&Toby]

On 18/11/2022 at 18:39, BTRFTG said:

Answer is simple - Yes, wholly beyond reasonableness.

Using your analogy the value of assets listed in the acvounts is already overstated using the type of bespoke conventions that accounting permits but the real world doesn't. What's AG worth? Nowhere near as much as stated, reason being who other than our potless neighbours wants a football stadium, or any stadium for that matter,  in Bristol? Residual land value is nowhere near what folks imagine once clearance & CIL/ S106s kick in.

You talk of 'greenfields' but where they and what have they to do with City Holdings? Lansdown's personal assets aren't dependant upon City hence have nothing to do with him propping up the club.

So I again ask, specifically, what does Lansdown have to do to access your mythical 'cash cow' as I'm sure he'll be all ears?

I’m bored. You have your view. I have mine.

I believe Lansdown has an ulterior motive in being the banker to BCFC. I’ve set that out.

Every loss it makes, every time he puts more funds in, every debt he creates and converts means the football club is forever and increasingly in his debt.

Meanwhile the jockey of the Trojan Horse sees the freeholds increase. There’s more to BS3 than just a modern day stadium with Dyson Airblades or Wickes.

He whipped that beauty into Winterstoke Road and had his exit worked out well before he saddled up.

I believe he knew that his end game was to acquire as much and as many freeholds as he could. Then sit and wait.

Bit like a Boxing Day game of Monopoly. Buy up the plots, keep losing money through Parking Fines and Super Tax - hang on, loss making in one part of the group offset elsewhere, live on an island where his cows produce nice creamy milk - and all those round the table think WTF……

Why does he keep going…..

Then as the egg nog comes out towards the end of the day BANG. The ****** funds a few “spare 500s he’s slipped under the board when no one was looking. And buys loads of little green houses and red hotels. 

And cleans up. Everyone else thinks **** me. Where did that come from? How did he do it? 

The biggest loser quietly and without fuss leans forward. He gently takes hold of the corners of the board. And flicks the lot high up into the air and smiles a rueful smile as the very same green and red blocks and even more undiscovered 500s fly and float around the room……..

But then again Steve and Steve’s family might prefer Cludo. I’ve no idea. About anything……

In many ways I hope your experience of accounting, business strategy, business psychology is better than mine. I’m sure it is. You don’t seem able or want to follow nuance. You appear to be a black and white, factual sort. Good on you. I wished at times I could be like that.

There can’t be any reason why a man with so much money and who’s been so successful in other aspects of his professional life can make so many **** ups time and time again . Can there…….

Anyway. I’m bored. I’m off.

England are playing later in Qatar. How the **** did they ever get the World Cup? Ah yes. FIFA. Mr Blatter. Money. 

Who’d have ever thought such a thing was possible……..

[Port Said Red]

On 19/11/2022 at 07:36, IAmNick said:

It's a genius plan really.

1. Make a fortune of some billions building a huge investment business and in the markets.

2. Buy a loss making football club, pump even more money into it, financially mismanage it, and be a few hundred million in the hole while still losing at least ten million every year.

3. Buy some land, build some houses, and sell them for considerably less than you spent on the club to date.

Now we just have to work out what step 3 has to do with 1 and 2 to uncover the master plan. 

Even if he sold it all and made £100m that's only a few % of his net worth, and when you consider the opportunity cost of the money it took over the time it took (over 20 years!) it's still not even close to worth it compared to other means at his disposal.

Playing devils advocate, who knows what the motivation is for these billionaire business men, look at Elon Musk.

[chinapig]

2 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

I believe Lansdown has an ulterior motive in being the banker to BCFC. I’ve set that out.

Of course you are welcome to believe that but all you have set out is an increasingly tortured range of analogies from Enron to Monopoly.

What you haven't set out is exactly how he is going to make a profit. Could you be specific about that?

[The Bard]

Do they publish Pula's accounts?

That is where he is making money atm.

 

[BTRFTG]

3 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

I believe Lansdown has an ulterior motive in being the banker to BCFC. I’ve set that out.

Except like all deluded conspiracists, you didn't.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Would we say the figure is £240m now, cor how much he has put in- but do we discount a good chunk of interest paybable from this?

ie Gross contribution- Interest Paid it or a lot of it=SL's net contribution.

Something like? Granted what SL or the Lansdowns may or may not gain is at this stage conjecture. You don't post the at this stsge hypothetical gain until you cash in your chips.

[BTRFTG]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would we say the figure is £240m now, cor how much he has put in- but do we discount a good chunk of interest paybable from this?

ie Gross contribution- Interest Paid it or a lot of it=SL's net contribution.

Something like? Granted what SL or the Lansdowns may or may not gain is at this stage conjecture. You don't post the at this stsge hypothetical gain until you cash in your chips.

When loans are converted to equity interest no longer is payable. As for dividends - what dividends? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

When loans are converted to equity interest no longer is payable. As for dividends - what dividends? 

No dividends with such losses that's for sure!

There has been some interest paid, some waivered of course but in the context of- I've just looked through accounts from 2005 to 2022- the amount by which that could offset SL's contribution to date is truly negligible.

For all the talk of freehold being built up by the OP, until SL cashes in his chips it's all hypothetical and paper only. That interest is creeping up a bit however.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[BTRFTG]

21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

No dividends with such losses that's for sure!

There has been some interest paid, some waivered of course but in the context of- I've just looked through accounts from 2005 to 2022- the amount by which that could offset SL's contribution to date is truly negligible.

For all the talk of freehold being built up by the OP, until SL cashes in his chips it's all hypothetical and paper only. That interest is creeping up a bit however.

No mystery. Unless you're a Loan Charge con artist there are two fundamentals to loans; start and end dates, interest charged during the loan. No surprise the greater the value of loans the higher the interest repayments. But let's not kid ourselves. Could SL have received higher returns if investing elsewhere? For sure he could.

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

No mystery. Unless you're a Loan Charge con artist there are two fundamentals to loans; start and end dates, interest charged during the loan. No surprise the greater the value of loans the higher the interest repayments. But let's not kid ourselves. Could SL have received higher returns if investing elsewhere? For sure he could.

Agreed on both counts. In theory he could lend them interest free as some owners do but yes the higher the loans the higher the interest. Likewise he could be like the Allams were post their Hull City Tigers name change being rejected which brings me onto my next post...

Edited November 22, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[BTRFTG]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed on both counts. In theory he could lend them interest free as some owners do but yes the higher the loans the higher the interest. Likewise he could be like the Allams were post their Hull City Tigers name change which brings me onto my next post...

You'll know better than I re FFP/P&S but in some restricted trades or where analysing financial robustness, even where some loans are charged at nil interest an assumed base rate is calculated from an economic perspective. I don't know if that applies to football and without wishing to sound like SL's greatest advocate interest should be charged, else what's the point of FFP? Wealthy owners could loan to cover losses without interest accrued, effectively write off the loans in loan to equity swap then never seek to cover capital outlay.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Another for @BigAl&Toby

Bit of a straw man potentially but it could certainly be worse. A look at Hull's accounts over the last few years was of interest.

From 2016-17 in particular and maybe a bit before, following a combination of the FA rejecting the name change and a breakdown of relations with their fans, Allam went from benefactor to clawing back.

PL cash and Parachute Payments meant that for 5 years and possibly a bit before Allam ran the club in a way that could claw back loans. They were literally either solely or net repaying loans for 5 seasons (He was also charging interest on said loans prior to this but was outweighed comfortably by what he was sticking in- when times were good).

He changed it a bit in 2020-21 due to Covid and a fall to League One but that balance was falling year on year as he was clawing it back- and the running of the club was in a way that enabled him to do so.

See to some extent, Chansiri at Sheffield Wednesday last couple of years. Similar albeit much lower level- stuck in £x in New loans but clawed back £x + y in repayments across 2019-20 and 2020-21.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[spudski]

For all the theories on why SL has ' owned' run the Club the way he has. 

Buildings, land, infrastructure, shares etc etc.

Would he make a massive profit if he walked away and sold everything?

If he did...would the amount be more considerable, than the amount he could have made, from the same amount of time, investment, heartache, initial losses etc etc in other business projects?

I'm sure with his business acumen, he could have invested similar time and money in other interests, and made far more than anything he might do in the future from the Club.

This is the reasoning I use to make me think he hasn't done it purely for power and profit.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

This is the reasoning I use to make me think he hasn't done it purely for power and profit.

I don’t think it’s purely for that either.