World Cup 2022 thread (football only)

[Port Said Red]

3 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Just ask the Italians or the Germans - both countries masters at grinding out results and winning trophies not always playing pretty expansive football.

It's the same people who are complaining about England who compliment the Germans for "knowing how to get through a tournament". 

[RedHienz]

Can we all agree that Southgate failed to either anticipate or deal with the playstyle of the USA.

Wales struggled with them in their first half and while second was a case of pressing and working the channels to get both possession and chances.

What's frustrating is Southgates complete inability to change a game. 

[Mr Hankey]

A point was a fair result, shame we didn’t see Foden but can clearly see why Mount is a managers favourite. Saw something online which said we are currently watching the generation of the “over-coached” which i sort of agree with & makes sense for a lot of 0-0’s - it’s all about safety first, backwards passes, stats & no real mavericks. Its a shame as it’s making football a very dull sport.

[RedRock]

No, I don’t get this ‘it’s a tournament’.

As a team we were disjointed, lacked any cohesion, plan and individuals were lethargic, hesitant and over-cautious. It wasn’t just bad, it was shockingly bad from the very first minute where we appeared to ‘revert to type’ with the ball being passed slowly, sideways, backwards and aimlessly in our defence. 

It’s clear from our first game and the pattern of the tournament so far, front foot, fast, aggressive pressing football is the way forward. That’s what Southgate promised us before the Tournament started. What we had last night was Southgate-ball - negative, back foot, lazy, safety -first shite. 

Let’s hope that Southgate is stung by the criticism and takes the brakes off. 

[italian dave]

38 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Have you lived under a rock for the past 56 years or what? Have you not seen the countless managers that have tried and failed to get us to be competitive at international tournament level..

Just getting to the later stages of tournament football has proved impossible for the vast majority of previous England managers let alone winning things. Some have had better squads than what Southgate has at his disposal right now.

Some people in this country unfortunately are fairly deluded when it comes to international football. If people think winning world cups and euros is all about playing scintillating attacking football every game then they are very mistaken.

Just ask the Italians or the Germans - both countries masters at grinding out results and winning trophies not always playing pretty expansive football.

You’re right, of course. It’s just hard to remember and buy into that when you are sitting through a waste of 2 hours of life like yesterday evening. 

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

With all at his disposal he should be winning tournaments 

What's he won?

 

 

 

 

I don't think you actually believe this.

[Port Said Red]

40 minutes ago, RedHienz said:

Can we all agree that Southgate failed to either anticipate or deal with the playstyle of the USA.

Wales struggled with them in their first half and while second was a case of pressing and working the channels to get both possession and chances.

What's frustrating is Southgates complete inability to change a game. 

No I don't agree. Yes the US team played a different game to the Wales game. They realised that pressing against a more technically adept set of players was just going to wear them out again, like it did in the previous game. They adopted the sit back and hit them on the break mode. Southgate realised that they had the pace to play that way against our defence, so we just held them off. 

We tried to encourage the press by passing it around the back, with the hope of exploiting the space behind the pressers, but Americans for the most part were well disciplined. 

The important thing then was to not lose to a late breakaway goal, hence the substitutions. Grealish, who can create, but can also hold the ball and win fouls, Henderson for the tiring Bellingham etc. 

I think he did all that was necessary.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Port Said Red

[22A]

OK then; if England are going to have one bad performance in he tournament, hopefully last night was it.

One of the studio experts reminded us that during the Euros we were all depressed after a draw with Scotland, but still reached the final.

[Show Me The Money!]

2 hours ago, frenchred said:

With all at his disposal he should be winning tournaments 

What's he won?

 

 

 

 

Why should we be winning tournaments? Are we better than France, Spain, Brazil, Portugal, even Italy maybe (and they didn’t even qualify)? No, I don’t think we are

[RedHienz]

17 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

No I don't agree. Yes the US team played a different game to the Wales game. They realised that pressing against a more technically adept set of players was just going to wear them out again, like it did in the previous game. They adopted the sit back and hit them on the break mode. Southgate realised that they had the pace to play that way against our defence, so we just held them off. 

We tried to encourage the press by passing it around the back, with the hope of exploiting the space behind the pressers, but Americans for the most part were well disciplined. 

The important thing then was to not lose to a late breakaway goal, hence the substitutions. Grealish, who can create, but can also hold the ball and win fouls, Henderson for the tiring Bellingham etc. 

I think he did all that was necessary.

I think almost everyone knew they were going to counter with pace! It was extremely basic hence the stagnation to the game and frustration with the approach.

[Show Me The Money!]

1 hour ago, RedHienz said:

Can we all agree that Southgate failed to either anticipate or deal with the playstyle of the USA.

Wales struggled with them in their first half and while second was a case of pressing and working the channels to get both possession and chances.

What's frustrating is Southgates complete inability to change a game. 

So we can’t say that the USA played well and if England didn’t play well that it’s all Southgate’s fault and not the players at all.

[Seventeen]

Absolutely no creation and he brings on Henderson and leaves Trent and Foden on the bench. Didn’t even utilise all his subs 

[spudski]

England v Wales...state of this lot. It's like a comedy sketch. Some blokes even thumping his own head  

 

[Super]

Is there actually anyone that would have Mount ahead of Foden. Well apart from Southgate.

[Red-Robbo]

3 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

People are also forgetting that we are playing in a condensed tournament in stupid heat, the aim of these three games is to get through the group stages with the minimum of effort. 

 

Well, they certainly put that in... 

As a spectacle, it was awful. Going out to win helps build momentum. Teams with momentum win stuff.

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, Super said:

Is there actually anyone that would have Mount ahead of Foden. Well apart from Southgate.

It was frustrating - the one thing I didn’t agree with him on.  But if you watch his post match press conference he gives his reasons why Foden didn’t come on in quite a bit of detail and they are rational and thought through - even if you don’t agree. 

[Globe Trotter]

8 minutes ago, Super said:

Is there actually anyone that would have Mount ahead of Foden. Well apart from Southgate.

Still can’t get my head around that decision 

[RedHienz]

32 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said:

So we can’t say that the USA played well and if England didn’t play well that it’s all Southgate’s fault and not the players at all.

Players play a formation and role outlined by the manager. Did he change anything after the first 45 to change the game?

Thats unless you think players just get on the pitch and do what they want.

USA played well. England have better players man for man across the pitch, unfortunately sitting deep doing anything but attacking.

[RedHienz]

4 minutes ago, Globe Trotter said:

Still can’t get my head around that decision 

Baffles me also. Unless he is injured.

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, lenred said:

It was frustrating - the one thing I didn’t agree with him on.  But if you watch his post match press conference he gives his reasons why Foden didn’t come on in quite a bit of detail and they are rational and thought through - even if you don’t agree. 

I was actually confused by his explanation. His argument was that he didn't bring Foden on because he wanted to change the wide players and playing in midfield in this game didn't suit Foden.

So is he saying that Foden is in the squad as a midfielder and not a wide attacker?

[exAtyeoMax]

6 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I was actually confused by his explanation. His argument was that he didn't bring Foden on because he wanted to change the wide players and playing in midfield in this game didn't suit Foden.

So is he saying that Foden is in the squad as a midfielder and not a wide attacker?

He didn’t sound convinced himself. 

[robin_unreliant]

We played exactly the same side as the previous game but got a totally different performance. You might say it was due to USA being better but I have a feeling Iran may even beat them. 

Not sure how you can come up with any logical reason for the drastic difference in performance. I'm not a fan of GS and feel he holds us back. Can't blame him though for not making changes after a great performance in the first game. 

It did seem a definite ploy to pass around the back, expecting USA to press. They were too smart to fall for that and we were too slow to shift tactics. 

I don't get the outrage at not picking Foden. Neither he or Grealish have done much in previous England games. Bellingham has been over-hyped and he needs to drop Mount who is out of form. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1-0 to the convicts.

[The Bard]

12 hours ago, downendcity said:

On the basis that we go through, far better to get a performance like that out of the way in the group stage 

Imagine going through with 3 sparkling performances only to hit the buffers with such a flat performance in the knock out stage.

 

Stop being so calm and logical.

To win a tournament you play 7 games.  No team has ever played well in all 7.

2006 Italy beat Aussies with a last minute penalty after a turgid performance.

2010 Spain lost 1st game to Swiss.

1982 Italy drew all 3 group games playing awful football.

 

 

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Stop being so calm and logical.

To win a tournament you play 7 games.  No team has ever played well in all 7.

2006 Italy beat Aussies with a last minute penalty after a turgid performance.

2010 Spain lost 1st game to Swiss.

1982 Italy drew all 3 group games playing awful football.

 

 

Fair comment. There seems to be a belief that teams win the World Cup playing thrilling attacking football throughout, which tends not to be the case. France won in 2018 yet Deschamps was getting a lot of stick at home for being too cautious.

By their own admission the 2010 Spain side kept the ball for long periods to prevent the opposition from scoring. They won the competition with a succession of 1-0 wins; exciting they were not!

Whether all that justifies playing for a clean sheet against the USA remains a moot point though.

[Bris Red]

7 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Stop being so calm and logical.

To win a tournament you play 7 games.  No team has ever played well in all 7.

2006 Italy beat Aussies with a last minute penalty after a turgid performance.

2010 Spain lost 1st game to Swiss.

1982 Italy drew all 3 group games playing awful football.

 

 

This. 

Your Wasting your breath though pal, many in this country just don’t get international football.

[Sir Geoff]

33 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I was actually confused by his explanation. His argument was that he didn't bring Foden on because he wanted to change the wide players and playing in midfield in this game didn't suit Foden.

So is he saying that Foden is in the squad as a midfielder and not a wide attacker?

He said the reason for brining on Rashford was his pace. I thought the opposite to you that he was saying Fiden isn't a midfielder and therefore not a suitable midfield replacement.

 

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Stop being so calm and logical.

To win a tournament you play 7 games.  No team has ever played well in all 7.

2006 Italy beat Aussies with a last minute penalty after a turgid performance.

2010 Spain lost 1st game to Swiss.

1982 Italy drew all 3 group games playing awful football.

 

And, of course, there are other Cups you could mention where the eventual winners DID look handy in group games.

The US offered little bite, but what was disappointing wasn't the final score, but the manner of play and the fact that a team that didn't even arrive after their customary win in the CONCACAF sector had the best of it.  Imagine playing like that against Spain? Pickford would get a repetitive injury from picking the ball out of the net!

From a personal point of view, that's the only group game I will be watching, so it's disappointing it was such a poor spectacle for the fans. I regret angling my head to look at the screen rather than focussing on the tasty blonde lady on the far table. 

Hopefully, this blip of boredom has taught Southgate something, and a more attack-minded side can humiliate Wales. However, I feel anyone watching last night is quite right to feel disappointed and let down. The atmosphere in the boozer was as flat as the proverbial pancake after the game. 

[Open End Numb Legs]

I think when Southgate gets it right pre game it goes well, what he has shown is he struggles to adapt during the game when it isn't panning out the way he expected.

He was simply too slow to react last night in terms of subs, we played 2 touch football, US played 1 touch, our man marking in defence was very poor.

We have all the talent required, he just needs to make the right calls.

[chinapig]

24 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

He said the reason for brining on Rashford was his pace. I thought the opposite to you that he was saying Fiden isn't a midfielder and therefore not a suitable midfield replacement.

 

Maybe we heard different interviews as he didn't mention pace in the one I heard just that he wanted to change the wide players. Point taken though.

However pace isn't much use if you have no space to run into. I don't recall us ever switching the play to create that space for instance.

So if there is no space perhaps it's better to bring on someone who can beat players as Grealish at least tried to do.