World Cup 2022 thread (football only)

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure we look a shambles!  We were sloppy though

We just tried to keep forcing it through the eye of a needle.  Patience, or a bit of something different.  As a CB or DM, if you know they are gonna play along the deck into feet…then you can go tight.  What you need occasionally is to mix it, turn one around the corner.

Got to realise teams aren’t mugs at this level, so it sometimes takes a bit of skill.

And that’s what happened, Foden flick…was all it took.  Bellingham-Gerrard bursting through and a good finish with his wrong foot from Henderson.  Then it’s all us, and Bellingham again…what a boy…and it’s 2-0.

At this level we need to care for the ball, not worry about trying to force it.  Even if it’s not pretty.  It’s about winning.

 

 

Agree Dave, as usual.

Was surprised (well, not really) to see so much negativity on here in the first half.

For 20 minutes we were in almost total control, but as you say we forced a few too many passes. One thing I like in Maguire for England is he always looks to play forward, breaking the lines. It’s risky though and when it goes awry can expose us (and I worry against France). 

However prior to this game the stats show our pass success rate was very high, second only to France. Yes some will call it “boring” but it’s patient and careful. You have to keep the ball moving and look for either gap, or a moment of magic - much like Netherlands goal yesterday, we did it too with one very clever flick and we were in. 

1 hour ago, lenred said:

Absolutely superb performance.    Controlled, calm, assured - perfect tournament football. The Southgate out bedwetters must be disappointed (not on here more a general comment). 

Agree completely. Other than 5-10 minutes where we weren’t careful enough (and an outstanding save) we were in complete control really.

Three sublime goals that if any other team scored we’d be purring over. 
 

m I won’t say I’m confident for Saturday, but I’m very excited. Win that and the cup is ours to lose IMO

[Mr Popodopolous]

Would like to see us stick to a 4-3-3 really. Suits us.

In the medium to long term, I think a 4-3-3 with Rice-Foden-Bellingham has potential and it can be a midfield for the next decade but Henderson has some nous and gives us stability...

Think we can compete well in those central zones. Rashford, Grealish off the bench to name 2...Mbappe is a major threat and as @Sheltons Army said Dembele too...think he got the most assists in Europe not long ago.

Still think they may edge us tbh but then I assumed that Senegal may give us a tougher game than the way it played out.

[Swede]

8 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

He's also scored 51 goals for our club over the prior 3.5 seasons. For me that's more important than 6 months at the end of his contract.

Which is a shame, really. With a bit more application and a more professional attitude he would've added more goals to that tally. He was being paid very well during the last six months of his contract and our former chief exec went on record stating that they made him an even bigger offer to keep him which he refused. He could've easily done a deal and signed a new contract and give something back to the club that gave him the platform and helped him get where he is today.

He should've been showing the same professional application and desire whether its the first six months or the last six months of a contract he was more than happy to sign for in the first place.

He is partly why we're trying to navigate through these tricky financial waters.

[And Its Smith]

27 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Why can’t we play 532 or 5311

As @Davefevsposted you either stay with our threat and play a bit of Russian Roulette 

or go with 3/5 at back and , in theory , suffocate their threats

Big call

My concern is how the back four real with Mbappe / Giroud / Dembele

I see Dembele as nearly as much , creative wise at least , a threat as Mbappe

Are we happy to leave Shaw & Walker 1 on 1 with them - Brave 

As I said,  Big call 

We could do but I’m not sure he will go with a brand new formation 

[Leveller]

I wonder what the French media reaction has been to Englands performance.

[downendcity]

14 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I wonder what the French media reaction has been to Englands performance.

[clunes]

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/sports/article/2022/12/04/england-best-senegal-to-set-up-quarter-final-matchup-with-france_6006570_9.html

[Kingswoodactor]

3 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

True

But absolutely necessary IMHO

How we cope with Frances front 3 decides the game for me 

I think he will go 5-3-2 rather than 5-2-3 , Because of Bellingham 

Allows him to play same robust midfield 3 

Means sacrificing Saka or Foden 

The last 2 international matches that France have lost (Denmark & Croatia in Nations League Sep/June 2022) was them up against a 4-3-3. France put out strong sides in both fixtures.

Be interesting to analyse how the Croatians and Danes won those games and stopped Mbappe. Maybe it’s more about flooding the midfield and actually starving him of the ball? If Rice, Hendo and Bellingham can dominate Rabiot, Griezmann and Tchouameni it will give us a real hope. The French look open at the back and won’t press us like Senegal did today. 

I really hope Southgate is brave and sticks with the 4-3-3. France will be as worried about our attack as we are about theirs. 

[2015]

Actually felt comfortable even when Senegal had their 15 minute spell in the 1st half. Thought we were in control even when under pressure. 

Really good performance especially by Bellingham, Henderson, Kane and Rice.

[pillred]

3 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

French defence isn’t great. Yes they are fantastic up top but we can do them damage

bring it on

Vindaloo, we'll score one more than you is what i think it will come down to.

[pillred]

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

52/48

Edited December 5, 2022 by pillred
Punctuation.

[Open End Numb Legs]

I am assuming Sterling could return if needed on the basis that there isn't an COVID bubble in use - there can't be as the TV showed the players after the Wales game climbing up into the seating area to join their families?

[Malago]

25 minutes ago, pillred said:

Vindaloo, we'll score one more than you is what i think it will come down to.

Could be cagey with both teams scared of being hit on the break.  Might be wrong but I don’t think it will be a goal fest.  1-0 to either side or 1-1 and ET and pens.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

Think the only reason we would change to 3 would be to congest wide areas in our third and to get wide overloads in their third

…sure, I just think it would disrupt the cohesiveness we have built.  Good learnings today too, things to work on that will happen against France too.  Don’t force it. Keep the ball, frustrate France by keeping it.

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

Why can’t we play 532 or 5311

As @Davefevsposted you either stay with our threat and play a bit of Russian Roulette 

or go with 3/5 at back and , in theory , suffocate their threats

Big call

My concern is how the back four real with Mbappe / Giroud / Dembele

I see Dembele as nearly as much , creative wise at least , a threat as Mbappe

Are we happy to leave Shaw & Walker 1 on 1 with them - Brave 

As I said,  Big call 

Would be interesting to see who plays in front of them, and how much they can influence them to have to go back the other way.  We are now perm three from two (Foden, Saka and Rashford) in front of our two FBs.  They will have a big say in the effectiveness of Mbappe and Dembele.

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

Agree Dave, as usual.

Was surprised (well, not really) to see so much negativity on here in the first half.

For 20 minutes we were in almost total control, but as you say we forced a few too many passes. One thing I like in Maguire for England is he always looks to play forward, breaking the lines. It’s risky though and when it goes awry can expose us (and I worry against France). 

However prior to this game the stats show our pass success rate was very high, second only to France. Yes some will call it “boring” but it’s patient and careful. You have to keep the ball moving and look for either gap, or a moment of magic - much like Netherlands goal yesterday, we did it too with one very clever flick and we were in. 

Agree completely. Other than 5-10 minutes where we weren’t careful enough (and an outstanding save) we were in complete control really.

Three sublime goals that if any other team scored we’d be purring over. 
 

m I won’t say I’m confident for Saturday, but I’m very excited. Win that and the cup is ours to lose IMO

It’s a big like a goldfish at times…we only remember the last thing that happened, which was Senegal’s chances and forget any positive stuff we did before that.  That then becomes “what happened”.

Re Patience…there was one passage of play in the phase when Senegal were snuffing us out, where the commentators were getting on at England’s backs a bit, blaming lack of creativity.  We missed a risky pass into Kane, instead went back into the CBs, and about 4 passes later, Rice popped off a first time pass and we got Shaw free well into their half.  It just showed waiting for the right pass was the right approach.

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, pillred said:

Apart from getting the KO time wrong let;s hope the;re right.

They a US website?

[pillred]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

They a US website?

Yes I think it is I just didn't want any confusion about what time we kick off, though the way social media works these days I doubt there is much chance of that, you have to remember I'm old enough to remember the days of the Green Un :laugh:.

Edited December 5, 2022 by pillred
Punctuation.

[Super]

4 hours ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

I am assuming Sterling could return if needed on the basis that there isn't an COVID bubble in use - there can't be as the TV showed the players after the Wales game climbing up into the seating area to join their families?

Maybe but family comes first and it sounds terrifying what they went through.

[TedsHeadIs Red]

7 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Think the only reason we would change to 3 would be to congest wide areas in our third and to get wide overloads in their third

Are you LJ in disguise? 

[And Its Smith]

Bookies saying England have 45% chance of getting through. Seems about right 

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Running out of superlatives for Jude Bellingham.

Need to order some more. 

[Major Isewater]

8 hours ago, Swede said:

Which is a shame, really. With a bit more application and a more professional attitude he would've added more goals to that tally. He was being paid very well during the last six months of his contract and our former chief exec went on record stating that they made him an even bigger offer to keep him which he refused. He could've easily done a deal and signed a new contract and give something back to the club that gave him the platform and helped him get where he is today.

He should've been showing the same professional application and desire whether its the first six months or the last six months of a contract he was more than happy to sign for in the first place.

He is partly why we're trying to navigate through these tricky financial waters.

I think there has a been a quiet revolution in football that has taken many clubs by surprise. The days of big trading and big transfer fees are largely gone as players opt for the freedom of choice as they run down their contracts. Many clubs , us included, have been slow to realise this change and have been caught out in the interim.

In years to come people will find it incredible that clubs signed players on three year contracts and only played them for two! 
I think we are well placed for the future with our academy not necessarily for generating transfer revenue, other than the exceptions like Scott, but for supplying players for the first team. 
We can only blame Diedhiou for his perceived lack of application during the last six months of his contract other than that he fulfilled his contractual obligations. 
 

[italian dave]

9 hours ago, Swede said:

Which is a shame, really. With a bit more application and a more professional attitude he would've added more goals to that tally. He was being paid very well during the last six months of his contract and our former chief exec went on record stating that they made him an even bigger offer to keep him which he refused. He could've easily done a deal and signed a new contract and give something back to the club that gave him the platform and helped him get where he is today.

He should've been showing the same professional application and desire whether its the first six months or the last six months of a contract he was more than happy to sign for in the first place.

He is partly why we're trying to navigate through these tricky financial waters.

I think we too easily expect players to have the same devotion to their clubs that we do, and we expect a commitment to their employer way beyond what the vast majority of us would even expect of ourselves.

Yes, he could have signed a deal: he could have agreed to play for nothing if he'd wanted to. But why would he, or why should he do something that he doesn't think is going to be in his best interests career wise and financially. 

It's not like clubs - generally - show any such loyalty to players. They are ruthlessly ditched at early stages of most careers, they are loaned out, traded around, and very much secondary to the interests of any individual club. Players are seen by most clubs as a commodity. So it's hardly surprising that players in return don't feel the sort of loyalty that you're suggesting - to give something back.

Not always the case, I'd accept. But if you go back to the time Fam was with us then, at Bristol City, that was very much the case. Our esteemed former chief exec, whose word you hold so much store by (unlike most on here!) absolutely personified that approach that saw players as commodities. Buy cheap, sell at top price, they were more about the bottom line of his spreadsheet and of his financial targets than they were footballers with a career. 

And blaming Fam for our financial plight is grossly unfair. If you're going to point fingers at players there were plenty whose cost benefit analysis would look far far worse - but the bigger picture is that its not the players who run the clubs finances. He signed a contract with us and he honoured it. There will be different views about his performances (clearly, from the above) but that's the case with any player, and with 51 goals you'd be hard pushed to argue that his contribution overall was anywhere near poor. 

Glad he didn't score last night though!!

Edited December 5, 2022 by italian dave

[slartibartfast]

Does anyone think  (worried) that we haven't actually played "anyone" yet ?

[Major Isewater]

8 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Does anyone think  (worried) that we haven't actually played "anyone" yet ?

Just the nobodies of the United States and Senegal,champions of Asia and the champions of Africa, a walk in the park up until now. 
As we all know anything can happen in football, one of the reasons  why we love the game, and in one off cup ties you don’t get a second chance. 
To win the trophy you have to beat the best and have that little bit of luck that has so often deserted England when it really mattered, perhaps this time, more than any other time, , football’s coming home, back home.

[cidercity1987]

14 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Does anyone think  (worried) that we haven't actually played "anyone" yet ?

No because the only teams in the last 16 that have played anyone are Spain (drew with Germany), Japan, Croatia (drew with Belgium), Morocco and arguably Portugal, South Korea versus Uruguay.

The only likely QF team to have beaten anyone will be Portugal 

[2015]

I must admit that the narrative has gone from 'Dont underestimate Senegal' to 'Its only Senegal' in such quick fashion is amusing

Edited December 5, 2022 by 2015

[1960maaan]

I've given up trying to understand the Laws of football , or how they are enforced. But just catching up on the France Vs Poland game.
Didn't they bring a Law in that said a Penalty taker could not stop in his run up? It may have been amended to not stopping during the last step or something. Lewandowski stops, skips and then shoots. Got a 2nd go when he missed as Szczesny moves for the first shot and so leaves his line. 

As I say, can't keep up so just wondering.
All I've found is...

Yes he is allowed to stop but its not so simple. If the player starts the run up and stops immediately that fine but if he gets very close and stops then kicks the ball this would probably be regarded as fainting the kick rather than the run-up (which is allowed).
Above from a forum question 

Which echos the Law 14:2
feinting to kick the ball once the kicker has completed the run-up (feinting in the run-up is permitted)

I guess the stop ,hop could be considered still in his run up at a push.

[lenred]

7 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I must admit that the narrative has gone from 'Dont underestimate Senegal' to 'Its only Senegal' in such quick fashion is amusing

Genuinely hilarious isn’t it.   People are so desperate to put us and GS down.  I genuinely just do not get it.   People must have very very very short memories.  

[2015]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

Genuinely hilarious isn’t it.   People are so desperate to put us and GS down.  I genuinely just do not get it.   People must have very very very short memories.  

If we beat France it will be 'but they didn't have Benzema, Kante or Pogba'. The rest of the World really cannot admit we are actually a decent side.

People need to think this isn't the England of 2016 anymore. I must admit I've been overly critical of Southgate for the past year because admittedly performances were really bad and so were the results, but I have had to endure a massive amount of humble pie this World Cup and i'm glad I've been proved wrong.

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, 2015 said:

If we beat France it will be 'but they didn't have Benzema, Kante or Pogba'. The rest of the World really cannot admit we are actually a decent side.

People need to think this isn't the England of 2016 anymore. I must admit I've been overly critical of Southgate for the past year because admittedly performances were really bad and so were the results, but I have had to endure a massive amount of humble pie this World Cup and i'm glad I've been proved wrong.

Not sure if it’s the rest of the world.  There’s plenty of Englishmen who feel that way that I’ve witnessed!  I don’t know what people expect and why they think that we have some divine right to beat these teams (Wales excluded ) Fair play for partaking in the pie!