Busting some myths….

[Harry]

Well, I say busting myths. Maybe I’m more trying to stir the pot. But here goes anyway….

At the start of the covid break, March 2020, we had Lee Johnson in charge. 37 games had been played. We were 7th. 1 point off the playoffs. Since the turn of the year, we’d won 5, drawn 2 and lost 5. 
 

In those 12 games of the calendar year to date, the following players were regulars :

Bentley, Kalas, Baker, Dasilva, Massengo, Weimann, Wells. 
 

7 players who have all been part of Pearson’s squads in the 22 months he’s been here. 
 

We keep hearing about the massive job Pearson has had to do. We hear that he’s had to get rid off bad eggs, overpaid primadonnas and not have any funds to bring his own players in. 
 

7 of the team that had us in 7th place after 37 games have been at his disposal. Sadly Bakers time was cut short, but he was available for Pearson for a fair while during his tenure. 
 

Players who have left the club under Pearson are :

Szmodics, Elliason, Morrell, J Smith, Bailey Wright, Matty Taylor, Korey Smith, Rory Holden, Adelakun, Diedhiou, Baldwin, Opi Edwards, Gilmartin, Hunt, Lansbury, Hinds, Mariappa, Paterson, Rowe, Walsh, Watkins, Wallocott, Nagy, Nurse, Palmer, O’Dowda, Janneh, Bakinson, Britton, Cundy. 
 

Of all of those gone, 30 listed, not a single one has gone to a higher ranked division and not a single one has been a success anywhere since. 
Of that list, you could probably get an argument for Paterson as being a decent player here, Diedhiou was generally pretty useless but for the odd goal and had cult status, Korey had a good career here but was on the wane, and Eliasson had a “good cross on him” but little else. 
Of all the others, there probably aren’t many fans who could put up a good argument for why they should have stayed at City and in most cases the majority of the fanbase were happy to see them go. 
 

So, let’s disregard all the financial arguments. Johnson had money and Pearson hasn’t. Yes, I get it. 
But the squad that Johnson ended with here in March 2020 contained 7 of the same squad Pearson has had at his disposal and 30 other players which no one really wanted here anyway and were not bothered when they left. 

Pearson has managed to replace those 30 unwanted players with Semenyo (a sought after talent), Scott (a much sought after talent), Conway (a potentially sought after talent, Atkinson (a £1.6m centre back), James & King (2 of his own studs who’ve won a premier league), Naismith (the player of the season at a team which got to the playoffs), Klose (a man with recent prem experience and promotion from this league).

So, the question is, Johnson got that bunch of players, most of which no fans really wanted and who have done nothing of note since leaving City, to 7th in the league, whilst Pearson has had 7 of the regulars from that Johnson team plus his own additions of generational talents and premier league players. So how did Johnson manage to get what could be easily argued as a worse team man for man into 7th place and nearly into the playoffs, whilst Pearson hasn’t managed to string any kind of form together over a 22 month stretch with arguably a better squad? 
 

I really feel that we are over-egging the impact the financial situation is having on Pearson’s job. Yes, the financial situation is very real and he hasn’t had a great deal to play with, but the squad now is arguably better man for man than the one Johnson had. Should Pearson be getting much more out of this squad than a record of 24-19-41, a 28.5% win rate, when Johnson was getting a 46% win rate from a worse bunch of players who needed to all be removed from the club!
 

Personally, I think the bloke is getting away with murder. 

[Simon79]

Although I agree with your point with regards there is potentially an argument that LJs team was weaker than the current one, I think you have got quite a few on your list that Pearson got rid of, that is not correct. Taylor, Elliasson, Morrell, Szmodic, Bailey Wright we’re definitely sold by other managers. But in general, yes, I think this team should be looking at around 10th - 12th at least I’d say personally, we are underperforming. But in saying that, I would stick with Pearson, as I would of with LJ. COYR 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Eliasson was 2nd or 3rd highest assist maker in the division despite being in and out of the time. Think he would have flourished more at a Brentford say.

Diedhiou wasn't brilliant but a goal every 3 games perhaps over time, relatively standard Championship fare.

Ups and downs wirh some of the others. King is aging, James is good and possibly hasn't been used to the best- a better squad, doubtful? Yes young and talented players but these are highly inconsistent in a lot of cases.

Some of those players were older, coming to the end  some were less than peak age let's say.

Baker is not there anymore, Kalas ha a been available so sporadically, Mawson was great albeit under Holden when fit- sadly he was seldom fit.

The other thing to mention about the period under Johnson was that playing Weimann wide right was less than ideal, although RWB is worse! He also had Brownhill for 5-6 months, didn't necessarily play players in the best position and the other thing was the results were just not so sustainable. We got 20 pts from the 1at 11 games but we deserved may be half of that looking back, little run in January and February, we could have lost 2-3 of those we won.

Maenpaa was quite good, defence seemed more stable with him behind I thought. He was old but not yet past it.

[Harry]

7 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Although I agree with your point with regards there is potentially an argument that LJs team was weaker than the current one, I think you have got quite a few on your list that Pearson got rid of, that is not correct. Taylor, Elliasson, Morrell, Szmodic, Bailey Wright were definitely sold by other managers. But in general, yes, I think this team should be looking at around 10th - 12th at least I’d say personally, we are underperforming. But in saying that, I would stick with Pearson, as I would have with LJ. COYR 

Correct. My mistake. They were sold summer 20 window, pre-Pearson. 
Even so, the point still stands. This squad is better than the one Johnson left. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

Interesting post, but of the 7 you mention

Bentley, had been a major part until recently, maybe on  way out , Kalas has been injured more than available, Baker had to retire, Dasilva had found his way back into the team, hopefully now only as backup to Pring, Massengo going to be leaving but should be a bench warmer,  Weimann was excellent last year but wasted this year at wing back, Wells much improved 

so currently only 2 starting, we have been unlucky with the injuries and had Kalas and Baker remained fit could have had a big impact upon defence

[Mendip City]

37 minutes ago, Harry said:

Well, I say busting myths. Maybe I’m more trying to stir the pot. But here goes anyway….

At the start of the covid break, March 2020, we had Lee Johnson in charge. 37 games had been played. We were 7th. 1 point off the playoffs. Since the turn of the year, we’d won 5, drawn 2 and lost 5. 
 

In those 12 games of the calendar year to date, the following players were regulars :

Bentley, Kalas, Baker, Dasilva, Massengo, Weimann, Wells. 
 

7 players who have all been part of Pearson’s squads in the 22 months he’s been here. 
 

We keep hearing about the massive job Pearson has had to do. We hear that he’s had to get rid off bad eggs, overpaid primadonnas and not have any funds to bring his own players in. 
 

7 of the team that had us in 7th place after 37 games have been at his disposal. Sadly Bakers time was cut short, but he was available for Pearson for a fair while during his tenure. 
 

Players who have left the club under Pearson are :

Szmodics, Elliason, Morrell, J Smith, Bailey Wright, Matty Taylor, Korey Smith, Rory Holden, Adelakun, Diedhiou, Baldwin, Opi Edwards, Gilmartin, Hunt, Lansbury, Hinds, Mariappa, Paterson, Rowe, Walsh, Watkins, Wallocott, Nagy, Nurse, Palmer, O’Dowda, Janneh, Bakinson, Britton, Cundy. 
 

Of all of those gone, 30 listed, not a single one has gone to a higher ranked division and not a single one has been a success anywhere since. 
Of that list, you could probably get an argument for Paterson as being a decent player here, Diedhiou was generally pretty useless but for the odd goal and had cult status, Korey had a good career here but was on the wane, and Eliasson had a “good cross on him” but little else. 
Of all the others, there probably aren’t many fans who could put up a good argument for why they should have stayed at City and in most cases the majority of the fanbase were happy to see them go. 
 

So, let’s disregard all the financial arguments. Johnson had money and Pearson hasn’t. Yes, I get it. 
But the squad that Johnson ended with here in March 2020 contained 7 of the same squad Pearson has had at his disposal and 30 other players which no one really wanted here anyway and were not bothered when they left. 

Pearson has managed to replace those 30 unwanted players with Semenyo (a sought after talent), Scott (a much sought after talent), Conway (a potentially sought after talent, Atkinson (a £1.6m centre back), James & King (2 of his own studs who’ve won a premier league), Naismith (the player of the season at a team which got to the playoffs), Klose (a man with recent prem experience and promotion from this league).

So, the question is, Johnson got that bunch of players, most of which no fans really wanted and who have done nothing of note since leaving City, to 7th in the league, whilst Pearson has had 7 of the regulars from that Johnson team plus his own additions of generational talents and premier league players. So how did Johnson manage to get what could be easily argued as a worse team man for man into 7th place and nearly into the playoffs, whilst Pearson hasn’t managed to string any kind of form together over a 22 month stretch with arguably a better squad? 
 

I really feel that we are over-egging the impact the financial situation is having on Pearson’s job. Yes, the financial situation is very real and he hasn’t had a great deal to play with, but the squad now is arguably better man for man than the one Johnson had. Should Pearson be getting much more out of this squad than a record of 24-19-41, a 28.5% win rate, when Johnson was getting a 46% win rate from a worse bunch of players who needed to all be removed from the club!
 

Personally, I think the bloke is getting away with murder. 

Interesting post. I’ll add another possible myth. I keep hearing that it takes ages to change around the culture and that’s still a work in progress (despite having brought in players specifically to improve that - King, James, Simpson while he was here) and his own coaches.  

How long did it take Steve Cotterill to turn around the culture of a relegated club that looked heading for a second relegation? No time at all, pointing the right direction immediately and promoted a year on.

How long did it take Gary Johnson to sort out the “soft underbelly”? That run of defeats at the start of his time - then it was sorted. 

Pearson has a book of excuses as long as your arm but we’re no more a problem club than many of our rivals…. Does Mark Robbins constantly moan about the hand he’s been dealt? I could accept it if he had some humility but his arrogance is so misplaced.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Mendip City

[Fordy62]

46 minutes ago, Harry said:

Well, I say busting myths. Maybe I’m more trying to stir the pot. But here goes anyway….

At the start of the covid break, March 2020, we had Lee Johnson in charge. 37 games had been played. We were 7th. 1 point off the playoffs. Since the turn of the year, we’d won 5, drawn 2 and lost 5. 
 

In those 12 games of the calendar year to date, the following players were regulars :

Bentley, Kalas, Baker, Dasilva, Massengo, Weimann, Wells. 
 

7 players who have all been part of Pearson’s squads in the 22 months he’s been here. 
 

We keep hearing about the massive job Pearson has had to do. We hear that he’s had to get rid off bad eggs, overpaid primadonnas and not have any funds to bring his own players in. 
 

7 of the team that had us in 7th place after 37 games have been at his disposal. Sadly Bakers time was cut short, but he was available for Pearson for a fair while during his tenure. 
 

Players who have left the club under Pearson are :

Szmodics, Elliason, Morrell, J Smith, Bailey Wright, Matty Taylor, Korey Smith, Rory Holden, Adelakun, Diedhiou, Baldwin, Opi Edwards, Gilmartin, Hunt, Lansbury, Hinds, Mariappa, Paterson, Rowe, Walsh, Watkins, Wallocott, Nagy, Nurse, Palmer, O’Dowda, Janneh, Bakinson, Britton, Cundy. 
 

Of all of those gone, 30 listed, not a single one has gone to a higher ranked division and not a single one has been a success anywhere since. 
Of that list, you could probably get an argument for Paterson as being a decent player here, Diedhiou was generally pretty useless but for the odd goal and had cult status, Korey had a good career here but was on the wane, and Eliasson had a “good cross on him” but little else. 
Of all the others, there probably aren’t many fans who could put up a good argument for why they should have stayed at City and in most cases the majority of the fanbase were happy to see them go. 
 

So, let’s disregard all the financial arguments. Johnson had money and Pearson hasn’t. Yes, I get it. 
But the squad that Johnson ended with here in March 2020 contained 7 of the same squad Pearson has had at his disposal and 30 other players which no one really wanted here anyway and were not bothered when they left. 

Pearson has managed to replace those 30 unwanted players with Semenyo (a sought after talent), Scott (a much sought after talent), Conway (a potentially sought after talent, Atkinson (a £1.6m centre back), James & King (2 of his own studs who’ve won a premier league), Naismith (the player of the season at a team which got to the playoffs), Klose (a man with recent prem experience and promotion from this league).

So, the question is, Johnson got that bunch of players, most of which no fans really wanted and who have done nothing of note since leaving City, to 7th in the league, whilst Pearson has had 7 of the regulars from that Johnson team plus his own additions of generational talents and premier league players. So how did Johnson manage to get what could be easily argued as a worse team man for man into 7th place and nearly into the playoffs, whilst Pearson hasn’t managed to string any kind of form together over a 22 month stretch with arguably a better squad? 
 

I really feel that we are over-egging the impact the financial situation is having on Pearson’s job. Yes, the financial situation is very real and he hasn’t had a great deal to play with, but the squad now is arguably better man for man than the one Johnson had. Should Pearson be getting much more out of this squad than a record of 24-19-41, a 28.5% win rate, when Johnson was getting a 46% win rate from a worse bunch of players who needed to all be removed from the club!
 

Personally, I think the bloke is getting away with murder. 

I can add another one to your list of people who’ve not gone onto a higher division and had little success elsewhere if you like…

[Harry]

11 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Interesting post, but of the 7 you mention

Bentley, had been a major part until recently, maybe on  way out , Kalas has been injured more than available, Baker had to retire, Dasilva had found his way back into the team, hopefully now only as backup to Pring, Massengo going to be leaving but should be a bench warmer,  Weimann was excellent last year but wasted this year at wing back, Wells much improved 

so currently only 2 starting, we have been unlucky with the injuries and had Kalas and Baker remained fit could have had a big impact upon defence

I’ll concede on Baker. He’s been part of 19 squads under Pearson. 
Kalas has been in 52 squads under Pearson. So he’s had him available much more times than not. 
But re Bentley, Massengo and Dasilva, you kinda back up my point. Those 3 were involved in the Johnson team pre covid. Pearson has chosen not to use them. So he thinks he has better players in those positions. Even further enhancing my thought that this current squad is better than the Johnson squad of Jan/Feb 2020 and therefore should be doing better. 
 

I’d add, this is not a ‘Johnson’ love-in post. I agreed that it was time for him to go when he did. But I’m just trying to highlight that I genuinely believe Johnson would be doing a better job with this squad than Pearson is. 

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I can add another one to your list of people who’ve not gone onto a higher division and had little success elsewhere if you like…

Well. As I say above, I think he’d be doing a better job with this squad than Pearson is 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Harry

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Interesting post. I’ll add another possible myth. I keep hearing that it takes ages to change around the culture and that’s still a work in progress (despite having brought in players specifically to improve that - King, James, Simpson while he was here) and his own coaches.  

How long did it take Steve Cotterill to turn around the culture of a relegated club that looked heading for a second relegation? No time at all, pointing the right direction immediately and promoted a year on.

How long did it take Gary Johnson to sort out the “soft underbelly”? That run of defeats at the start of his time - then it was sorted. 

Pearson has a book of excuses as long as your arm but we’re no more a problem club than many of our rivals…. Does Mark Robbins constantly moan about the hand he’s been dealt? I could accept it if he had some humility but his arrogance is so misplaced.

Different levels, different contexts. Do take your point about the speed but we were ostensibly a bigger fish in a smaller pond at that time and we were visibly underachieving.

It is a tough ship to turn around, he used a good term in a recent press conference which was 'Affecting change'. That is just what NP is doing here- wahw bill has been cut, amortisation has been cut, we have been so hamstring thst we are unsure we can even sign a PL loanee or was the case for 3 Windows.

Trying to keep us up, improve the underlying performance while bringing in youth and seeking to avoid FFP sanctions. Tough gig!

Robins is doing fantastic work at Coventry but he hasn't been told to make cuts out of necessity has he. Although I think he deserves full credit, SISU, playing in other cities, games off early season and the Wasps debacle.

[Simon79]

21 minutes ago, Harry said:

Correct. My mistake. They were sold summer 20 window, pre-Pearson. 
Even so, the point still stands. This squad is better than the one Johnson left. 

I definitely agree with the point that this group should be doing better. I can’t get my head around people talking about avoiding relegation as some sort of par. We have Bentley on the bench, who I would say is a Championship top 10 keeper, so presumably Pearson thinks O’Leary is better, we have DaSilva on the bench who I again would say is a top ten Championship left back, we have Naismith who is a top 10 Championship defender, Kalas the same if not higher( accept he’s been out a large chunk of this season ), Atkinson who is rated quite highly on here it seems (not 100% convinced myself yet ). In midfield we have James who is Pearson’s go to man & has promotion/prem experience & is highly rated on here ( again, not convinced myself ), Williams would fall into a top half Championship midfielder I would think, Massengo who I rate very highly would do very well at most top end Championship clubs for me, Scott who is wanted by Prem clubs & then the forwards who I think most top half teams would be interested in if not higher with Weimann, Wells, Semenyo & Conway. We then have a few of Pearson’s signings to back that group up Klose, King, Sykes, Tanner & Wilson who I would presume he thought was better than what was here. And then a group of players that were here before to back those two groups up Martin, Vyner, Pring, Bell. So for me, that group is mid table minimum. January will be interesting & I wouldn’t be in too much of a hurry to pull the trigger Pearson just yet. COYR 

[Fuber]

26 minutes ago, Harry said:

Correct. My mistake. They were sold summer 20 window, pre-Pearson. 
Even so, the point still stands. This squad is better than the one Johnson left. 

It ain't. For me, anyway.

Should NP be doing better, yep.

However, comparing squads - I'd be shocked anyone can look at them and say our squad now is stronger.

Johnson had numerous experienced professionals and way more depth, too much even. Now we have none, and NP has bled more academy players in the past 12 months than LJ did in 36. At the time Lee was sacked, he'd won once in 11.

Yes, the likes of Scott, Conway, are likely better than Paterson and others. But they are not, nor should they be expected - to be as consistent, as we saw Boxing Day.

The likes of Maenpaa, Diedhiou, Benkovic, even Pedro Pereira - walk into this team. Over the likes of Bentley, Conway, Vyner, Tanner, etc.

They were also then on double the likes of Atkinson's current wages now.

Ultimately, the only point that matters is the lack of available investment in the playing squad, and no matter how its framed, that rests squarely with the Lansdowns ownership of the club.

[Kodjias Wrist]

I guess looking back at he beginning of the season what were peoples expectations? Most were happy with mid table right? We aren't that far away from it points wise.  Recent performances however suggest we are in a relegation battle. 

The next two games are crucial and two teams chasing playoffs away. I would be delighted with 2 or 3 points from them but I just can't see it.

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Fuber said:

The likes of Maenpaa, Diedhiou, Benkovic, even Pedro Pereira - walk into this team. Over the likes of Bentley, Conway, Vyner, Tanner, etc.

Conway in 22/23 - 239 mins per league goal

Diedhiou 17/18 - 180 mins per league goal

Diedhiou 18/19 - 245 mins per league goal

Diedhiou 19/20 - 241 mins per league goal

Diedhiou 20/21 - 261 mins per league goal 

I don't think Famara added that much in his all round gameplay either, so one season where Famara has a better mins per league goal record. I don't think you can say Famara would walk into this team ahead of Conway given Conway has relatively little exposure to the league and will still be getting better.

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

I guess looking back at he beginning of the season what were peoples expectations? Most were happy with mid table right? We aren't that far away from it points wise.  Recent performances however suggest we are in a relegation battle. 

The next two games are crucial and two teams chasing playoffs away. I would be delighted with 2 or 3 points from them but I just can't see it.

I just wanted to still be in the championship, another season closer to sorting the financial mess and more higher earners off the books to help the club in the market when we can be more 'stable' (if there were such a term in this division)

[Fammyfan]

The Johnson squad was much more experienced and stronger, it was also superior in terms of strength in depth. Just some names:

Goalkeepers - Bentley, Maenpaa

Defenders - Baker, Benkovic, Kalas, Wright, DaSilva, Perreira, Hunt, Williams, Vyner

Midfield - Eliasson, Palmer, Nagy, Massengo, Patterson, Smith, Rowe, O’Dowda

Forwards - Afobe, Wells, Diedhiou, Weimann, Semenyo

 

How much we could do with some of those players here now

[Davefevs]

Harry - I’ll just add in the name Josh Brownhill who left us that winter and I think was the biggest loss…and started us seeing results reflect performances. Up to then we were scraping results (admirable don’t get me wrong).

I’m glad you mentioned Pato though, technically good.

Whether you agree or not Diedhiou went to Turkey top 5 club.  Eliasson went to Lg1 in France.

Massengo had become but part by then under LJ.

Nige didn’t have Korey Smith, he left under Holden.

There are a number of factors that led to our downturn. I think the biggest factor was Ashton and the Diedhiou contract stuff pissing off the other players.

 

(sorry others posted similar while I was typing slowly)

Edited December 28, 2022 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Correct. My mistake. They were sold summer 20 window, pre-Pearson. 
Even so, the point still stands. This squad is better than the one Johnson left. 

Squad definitely not better now. Best eleven versus best eleven might be an interesting debate though. 

[2015]

That 19/20 squad is much better than the squad we have now. 

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, 2015 said:

That 19/20 squad is much better than the squad we have now. 

Here’s the list of those that played a league game in the 19/20 season, and how many they played that season and subsequently.

the experience / age spread across that squad is a huge divergence from today’s.

I guess you can remove Pack from that list, as he went after game one…big mistake imho.

Like a lot of things we debate on OTIB it’s rarely black and white and @Harry this is another example that sparks discussion.

We can debate someone like Dasilva, who has a real mixed time here, impacted by shin splints and not reach a 100% concensus!

(data pre-Boxing Day)

[Son of Fred]

4 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Kalas and Baker remained fit could have had a big impact upon defence

Very much key ...

For all of the sobbing & whinging going on right now, this has been/is at the heart of our problems.

[Olé]

I love you @Harrybut this is selective reasoning and engineered commentary to contrive a point to suit an agenda.

Don't worry, I only know this because (as you well know) I do it too - you've used all the tricks in the book on this one.

• Make the stat do the work. Choose the optimum date for a results based argument (before one of LJ's collapses)
• Simultaneously choose another factor (in this case a set of players) that most contrasts your point, even though one is not responsible for the other (where's Brownhill?)
• Reduce players down to their own worst caricatures as a commentary to help emphasise your point (Diedhiou "pretty useless" was top scorer and player of the season)
• Do the opposite to build a contrast with the second set of players and manager (Semenyo, Scott, Conway "generational talents" + James, King "premier league studs")
• Conveniently forget stuff. Like err.. doesn't Pearson get credit if Semenyo, Scott, Conway are generational talents? I thought King is someone everyone hates him playing?
• Lists. Lists are great. When you write a long list of things, it's simply got to be true. So you define the criteria then rattle off a long list off players (without Brownhill, obvs)
• Just to prove it - flip the lens around and I can give you some lists too:
  • Players who got us to 7th in 19/20 stat who are now same or higher level than us: Diedhiou, Brownhill, Eliasson, Paterson, Walsh, O'Dowda, Palmer, Nagy, Szmodics, Wright, Pereira, Benkovic
  • Players who got us to 3rd in 22/23 (8 games played) with little or no Championship experience: Scott (36 starts), Atkinson (29 starts), Conway (5 starts), Sykes (0 starts), Wilson (0 starts)
• Context. Never mention it.
  • i.e. 19/20 season also included experienced players like Baker, Rowe, Hunt, Mariappa and a squad coming off a cycle that saw them play alongside Webster, Kelly, Pack, Brownhill months earlier
  • i.e. 22/23 squad 16 players 25 or under including 7 of our top 10 appearances: Vyner, Scott, Dasilva, Conway, Atkinson, Sykes, Williams, O'Leary, Semenyo, Pring, Massengo, Tanner, Wilson, Bell
• A comparison that involves Kalas, a £9m club record signing, consistently injured under Pearson, is clearly not playing fair (I'd argue Kalas/Bentley are NP's only players at peak age of their career)  

There is plenty of merit to debating how effective Nigel Pearson has been but surely we can do so by referencing what is in front of us as the starting point? There is no doubt we're defensively worse than much of the LJ period, with Zak Vyner (a player LJ never trusted) as our most consistent and experienced defensive player (no Kalas, no Baker, no Webster, no Kelly etc). Conversely, the days of zero shots on goal and with no discernible style of play and constantly changing, I think we are better than. We have a clear style of play, create chances, and score goals (and created a 20 goal striker out of one of LJ's squad players).  

Finally since this is unavoidably an LJ comparison, I think you were more sympathetic to him than most, which is not unreasonable, I always praised some of the amazing away wins he orchestrated, and tried to be balanced. I'm somewhat ambivalent about Pearson (though still feel people are going way OTT about present form) but the thing I really despise is the same people who piled on LJ and DH, now hysterically piling on NP at the first opportunity with this self-entitled bloodlust for sackings. No strategy. No patience. Apparently want a young coach like LJ again. It's embarrassing how much the mob charges round in circles. 

[Son of Fred]

6 minutes ago, Olé said:

people are going way OTT about present form) but the thing I really despise is the same people who piled on LJ and DH, now hysterically piling on NP at the first opportunity with this self-entitled bloodlust for sackings. No strategy. No patience. Apparently want a young coach like LJ again. It's embarrassing how much the mob charges round in circles. 

For certain they need to be careful for what they wish for

[Engvall’s Splinter]

6 hours ago, Simon79 said:

I definitely agree with the point that this group should be doing better. I can’t get my head around people talking about avoiding relegation as some sort of par. We have Bentley on the bench, who I would say is a Championship top 10 keeper, so presumably Pearson thinks O’Leary is better, we have DaSilva on the bench who I again would say is a top ten Championship left back, we have Naismith who is a top 10 Championship defender, Kalas the same if not higher( accept he’s been out a large chunk of this season ), Atkinson who is rated quite highly on here it seems (not 100% convinced myself yet ). In midfield we have James who is Pearson’s go to man & has promotion/prem experience & is highly rated on here ( again, not convinced myself ), Williams would fall into a top half Championship midfielder I would think, Massengo who I rate very highly would do very well at most top end Championship clubs for me, Scott who is wanted by Prem clubs & then the forwards who I think most top half teams would be interested in if not higher with Weimann, Wells, Semenyo & Conway. We then have a few of Pearson’s signings to back that group up Klose, King, Sykes, Tanner & Wilson who I would presume he thought was better than what was here. And then a group of players that were here before to back those two groups up Martin, Vyner, Pring, Bell. So for me, that group is mid table minimum. January will be interesting & I wouldn’t be in too much of a hurry to pull the trigger Pearson just yet. COYR 

I’m astounded you feel Dasilva and Williams are top players in their respective positions. 
 

Just because it’s been speculated that Scott has been linked with Prem clubs doesn’t confirm he has - and if he has that could be more for future than now. 
 

The squad is bottom half at best. 
 

Pearson needs to revisit the system though. 

[Rob k]

16 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

I’m astounded you feel Dasilva and Williams are top players in their respective positions. 
 

Just because it’s been speculated that Scott has been linked with Prem clubs doesn’t confirm he has - and if he has that could be more for future than now. 
 

The squad is bottom half at best. 
 

Pearson needs to revisit the system though. 

I’ve seen nothing from Williams to suggest he’s anything more than an average L1 player, I’ve been very disappointed.

That group of players are now about to get their 3rd manager the sack - when does the realisation set in that even though they are highly paid they just ain’t good enough or got the right attitude that NP alludes too 

[Fuber]

6 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Conway in 22/23 - 239 mins per league goal

Diedhiou 17/18 - 180 mins per league goal

Diedhiou 18/19 - 245 mins per league goal

Diedhiou 19/20 - 241 mins per league goal

Diedhiou 20/21 - 261 mins per league goal 

I don't think Famara added that much in his all round gameplay either, so one season where Famara has a better mins per league goal record. I don't think you can say Famara would walk into this team ahead of Conway given Conway has relatively little exposure to the league and will still be getting better.

In pure goalscoring terms, sure.

And as much as I can't believe I'm saying this, Fammy was a weapon when it came to defending his own box.

The latter was also great for us in enabling us to mix play. He was stronger than Tommy and better aerially, which meant you could more easily play it into him from deep, and not as slow as Martin, so you could still play it into the channel.

For the above reasons, for me, with our current imbalance with regards to height, and weakness to set pieces, I'd have Fammy back in pretty sharpish. Enabling the likes of Bell to go out on loan.

[Fuber]

8 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I’ve seen nothing from Williams to suggest he’s anything more than an average L1 player, I’ve been very disappointed.

That group of players are now about to get their 3rd manager the sack - when does the realisation set in that even though they are highly paid they just ain’t good enough or got the right attitude that NP alludes too 

Agreed. Althought I'd temper that and say, I dedinateky think with regards to Williams, injuries have likely had an impact, same with DaSilva.

Ashton appointing Rolls was one of the most damaging actions the former undertook imo.

No coincidence that Hamstring injuries are appearing at Ipswich.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Fuber

[real_bristol]

7 hours ago, Mendip City said:

How long did it take Steve Cotterill to turn around the culture of a relegated club that looked heading for a second relegation? No time at all, pointing the right direction immediately and promoted a year on.

IIRC Cotts inherited a massively restructured club courtesy of SODs reforms. SOD was a victim of his own transition. I don’t want to take any credit from Cotts but he caught us at the right time. 

[Lrrr]

34 minutes ago, Fuber said:

In pure goalscoring terms, sure.

And as much as I can't believe I'm saying this, Fammy was a weapon when it came to defending his own box.

The latter was also great for us in enabling us to mix play. He was stronger than Tommy and better aerially, which meant you could more easily play it into him from deep, and not as slow as Martin, so you could still play it into the channel.

For the above reasons, for me, with our current imbalance with regards to height, and weakness to set pieces, I'd have Fammy back in pretty sharpish. Enabling the likes of Bell to go out on loan.

Famara was actually pretty poor to play more direct into given his size, struggled to bring balls down and link consistently, he was also poor got working as a pair of forwards usually doing his own thing rather than being able to work as a unit, the amount of times I remember seeing Weimann angry that he hadn’t pressed properly. As for the defensive set pieces I think it says more about the rest of the squad if no one was able to do it, given when I’ve looked at other teams and seen ones with a player whose around 5’9 and does it excellently.

[Bristol Oil Services]

To be fair to Nige, if his Aunty had Hibs squad this season I think they'd be doing better than St. Mirren .....