Busting some myths….

[bcfcredandwhite]

1 hour ago, glynriley said:

 

Really? Given the resources available to the two of them, is it any surprise.

FFS.

You seem to have missed the point of the article and judging by your articulate suffix don’t want to see the point of it. 
 

Todays squad is better on paper than the one that LJ had - so why aren’t we higher in the table?

or do you think LJs squad was better?

that was what the OP was asking IMHO  

I think that’s a valid question. You probably don’t. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by bcfcredandwhite
Add words

[glynriley]

17 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

You seem to have missed the point of the article and judging by your articulate suffix don’t want to see the point of it. 
 

Todays squad is better on paper than the one that LJ had - so why aren’t we higher in the table?

or do you think LJs squad was better?

that was what the OP was asking IMHO  

I think that’s a valid question. You probably don’t. 

The FFS was in response to your rather juvenile offering "Pearson 'love-in' brigade"

As for the rest, if you, or anyone else on here, honestly believes that this current squad is in anyway stronger than any squad that LJ had during his reign, well, words fail me.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by glynriley

[Colombo Robin]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

No, no and no.

All available evidence suggests the opposite.

Absolutely incredible how you could even hypothesise such nonsense out of thin air.

His man management of players is his strength. Have you not heard any Leicester players talk about him? Why do you think Matty James came here when he would have better paid offers elsewhere? Or King for that matter. Where is the evidence any of our players aren't putting the effort in for him? How come players he's dropped have come back into the team and performed well? Where the hell do people get this shit from? **** me. 

Have you watched any of our recent games? Do they look well motivated? 

I respect your view. If you find it so hard reading other peoples opinions i'd have a think about whether internet forums are the place for you

[firstdivision]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, a thought provoking post from a new angle.  Guess what?  It provoked thought and responses with great maturity and thought from the likes of @Oléand @The Constant Rabbit, but because they challenged @Harry’s point of view (and your want of Nige Out, you don’t like it.

There are some great responses on both sides of the argument across OTIB at the mo’, but why are certain OTIB posters trying to shut down opposing views.  Debate / discuss what you like about Harry’s post, that’s the right way to engage.

 

Who says I want NP out, Dave? I have never said that. I’m sceptical about his time as manager, yes. I don’t particularly like his demeanour.  I wouldn’t have given him a three-year contract 18 months ago. But please find where I’ve written that I want him out. Go on. 

I honestly don’t know the right course of action. I debate it with myself every day. What I do find puzzling is the unswerving faith in him from some. It feels almost cultish at times. Just because I praised Harry’s post, people get their y-fronts in a twist. So be it. 

I’ll be at Millwall tonight hoping we can get three points, like I was at  the WBA game on Monday. I hope everyone on here will be joining me.

I didn’t boo on Monday. I didn’t shout ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’. I didn’t shout ‘we want Pearson out.’ 
What does make me laugh, though, is the ‘there’s no alternative’ narrative. There’s always an alternative. No one knows whether the alternative will be better or worse. But they assert that they do. I don’t know and nor do you. 
 

Edited December 29, 2022 by firstdivision

[Spike]

On 27/12/2022 at 23:17, Harry said:

Pearson has managed to replace those 30 unwanted players with Semenyo (a sought after talent), Scott (a much sought after talent), Conway (a potentially sought after talent, Atkinson (a £1.6m centre back), James & King (2 of his own studs who’ve won a premier league), Naismith (the player of the season at a team which got to the playoffs), Klose (a man with recent prem experience and promotion from this league).

So, the question is, Johnson got that bunch of players, most of which no fans really wanted and who have done nothing of note since leaving City, to 7th in the league, whilst Pearson has had 7 of the regulars from that Johnson team plus his own additions of generational talents and premier league players. So how did Johnson manage to get what could be easily argued as a worse team man for man into 7th place and nearly into the playoffs, whilst Pearson hasn’t managed to string any kind of form together over a 22 month stretch with arguably a better squad? 
 

I really feel that we are over-egging the impact the financial situation is having on Pearson’s job. Yes, the financial situation is very real and he hasn’t had a great deal to play with, but the squad now is arguably better man for man than the one Johnson had. Should Pearson be getting much more out of this squad than a record of 24-19-41, a 28.5% win rate, when Johnson was getting a 46% win rate from a worse bunch of players who needed to all be removed from the club!
 

Personally, I think the bloke is getting away with murder. 

To address those 7 players:

Bentley - Pearson has finally seen what was clear when he was brought in, the man doesn't come out to claim the ball and so Max has been given the reigns because despite being not as good of a shot stopper he is willing to come out to command his area. 
Kalas - Is not a leader at all, doesn't command the back line and despite being a good defender has been injured more than he's been fit under Pearson (I think, if not it's certainly close)
Baker - A real leader in defence, rough and dangerous tackles with him but he led the backline, Pearson has lost this and hasn't been able to replace that leadership.
Dasilva - Technically a strong player but has deteriorated considerably and being as he's been used in the same position this doesn't reflect on Pearson, it's just a case of a player losing their edge.
Massengo - I'm in agreement with Pearson, the lad doesn't want to be here, he's not willing to sign, why would he drop James who he knows well for a kid who will be gone in 6 months. Is Massengo better? Maybe, but he's not a part of this clubs future.
Weimann - Victim of his own ability IMO. When Pearson allowed him to play as striker he was great, scored and would give 100%, the issue is we now have Semenyo, Conway, Wells and Bell all fighting for two spots, then you have Scott who is naturally an attacking midfielder fighting for that role behind the strikers. I honestly thought Wells would be gone and Weimann would be moved back into contention for the strikers role but since Wells has signed a new contract it means there is still too much competition for too few places in the team. Andi can play most roles so Pearson can't leave him out but can play him right wing back where he is better than Sykes. I'm surprised Tanner hasn't been given a real chance here and if I'm honest Weimann and the Right Wing Back position is Pearsons main undoing. We know Wilson was bought to play there but is injured, Sykes gets a lot of abuse but again he's not a RWB, he's a midfielder who has ended up put in that RWB role as he was obviously the best we could get as back up for Wilson. Unfortunately this hasn't worked out so Pearson has resulted to using Andi as he knows he'll give 100% (the trust that Pearson mentioned applies to this situation IMO and is the reasons Andi is never dropped.).
Wells - I think he'd be gone if it wasn't for Conway, I honestly think the sole reason he has another 2 years is because Conway plays well with him and Wells was willing to take the paycut. Conway is without a doubt a great talent that can improve so is probably first on the team sheet for the forward positions and because he works best with Wells Well's is second on that list. Wells is physically very fit and he's sharp when he's infront of goal but I don't think we play to his strengths either, he's that player who gets into spaces and poaches goals, we don't create those kinds of chances very often, more of our chances come from crosses or catching the opposition on the break but we've reverted to playing long balls down the wing for the strikers to chase onto which never worked once against West Brom. Wells suits a team who play quick passing football in and around the area, the exact opposite to us and much more suited to what LJ played.

This is where the difference comes into the squads.. LJ could mix his team up, yes he had those 7 players but he also had a wealth of other options that Pearson doesn't have. LJ's squad was huge in comparison to what we have now which meant less pressure on some players to perform as he could switch them out and change things up, Pearson has the bare bones of a previous squad with the ones mentioned who are still here on way more than we can afford now. Come the summer LJ's players will be largely gone and it'll probably be the first time Pearson has been able to make genuine changes, the problem is he'll have no money to do it, meaning he'll be shopping for free's like King, James and Sykes whilst LJ had players like Brownhill Top 6 Champ/Prem quality), Fammy, Pack etc 
You only need look at the size and range in quality/experience of LJ's squad and compare it to Pearsons and you can instantly see what the money LJ had did, as much as we complained about certain players at the time they were far better than what we have now. If anything I think if Pearson had been in charge when we had the likes of some of the players we had then I feel he would have reinvested a lot better than we did at the time.

For me the only real reason to want Pearson out is that he's rubbing the fans up the wrong way. I think he's right in a lot of the things he says but for a man with so much experience he's still too quick to put it into words and it comes back to bite him in the ass and cause the fans to turn on him. I'd also add using Weimann on the wing is also irritating the fans too because of how prolific Weimann was last season.

I still kind of hope he makes it to the summer when money will be freed up on wages and he may begin to actually turn the squad around instead of relying on players that obviously are not in his plans. I also think against West Brom we may have seen the beginning of the players turning their backs to him because a lot of them know they won't be here next season and that's another reason why he has trust issues with some players.
Having said this I don't think he'll be manager in a months time, I can seriously see the fans being the forcing hand behind him leaving and then the same fans will be moaning about SL bringing in a "cheap option" because we can't afford to bring in a good manager because we just fired a manager who's made it abundantly clear that we're walking a fine line with FFP. I honestly think that's what will happen though, the board will feel pressured to get rid of Pearson due to fans turning on him, then we'll hire cheap, fans will say SL is to blame for sacking NP and not replacing him without someone better despite the fans knowing we can't afford better, SL is in a lose lose situation, he's damned if he does and he's damned if he doesn't.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Colombo Robin said:

If you find it so hard reading other peoples opinions i'd have a think about whether internet forums are the place for you

Good advice. 

Different opinions are absolutely fine - those based on evidence or, failing that,  logic.

But those based on crass fuckwittery, a basic misreading of the evidence that leads to 2 + 2 equalling anything but 4, tend to get my goat.

As social media is, by and large, a megaphone for morons, I have to agree it's probably not the place for me. But you'll have to excuse me, I'm off to argue with a poster who believes Pearson hasn't improved performances, despite the evidence which indicates we frequently went entire matches under his predecessor without a single shot on goal or a single corner, our possession stats were risible, and games felt like the siege of the alamo. Whereas now there's clear evidence to the contrary, of an improvement. (Results are something else, of course! Still an improvement on  his predecessor but not by enough - everyone, yes everyone, agrees on that.)

So - evidence, facts, reliable data, that's what I'm interested in and I appreciate that's not what social media is about, by and large. 

PS. Given your hypothesis is a crass misreading of the available evidence, I maintain it's horseshit

Edited December 29, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Colombo Robin]

7 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Good advice. 

Different opinions are absolutely fine - those based on evidence or, failing that,  logic.

But those based on crass fuckwittery, a basic misreading of the evidence that leads to 2 + 2 equalling anything but 4, tends to get my goat.

As social media is, by and large, a megaphone for morons, I'll have to agree it's probably not the place for me. But you'll have to excuse me, I'm off to argue with a poster who believes Pearson hasn't improved performances, despite the evidence indicating we frequently went entire matches under his predecessor without a single shot on goal or corner, our possession stats were risible and games felt like the siege of the alamo. Whereas now...

Evidence, facts, reliable data, that's what I'm interested in. I appreciate that's not what social media is about. 

PS. Your hypothesis is still horseshit

Its not 2 + 2 = anything but 4 though is it. Football aside, many people think Pearson is an arrogant, petulant ***** with a massively inflated opinion of himself. Is it really such a massive leap to think some of the players have the same view? 

 

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

10 minutes ago, Colombo Robin said:

Its not 2 + 2 = anything but 4 though is it. Football aside, many people think Pearson is an arrogant, petulant ***** with a massively inflated opinion of himself.

Again, a crass misreading.

It appears you have a PhD in it, if that's what you think of him. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

You seem to have missed the point of the article and judging by your articulate suffix don’t want to see the point of it. 
 

Todays squad is better on paper than the one that LJ had - so why aren’t we higher in the table?

or do you think LJs squad was better?

that was what the OP was asking IMHO  

I think that’s a valid question. You probably don’t. 

FWIW, I think LJ’s “squad” was miles better than Nige’s “squad”.  If you put best team v best team that would be a good debate.  But I posted LJ’s squad in an earlier post (or other thread) and I think it is massively superior in its individual players, but importantly it’s depth.

I honestly don’t think comparing LJ with Nige can lead to a conclusive verdict, apples and pears really.  But it’s a forum and it provoked a good discussion, that’s the main thing.

1 hour ago, firstdivision said:

Who says I want NP out, Dave? I have never said that. I’m sceptical about his time as manager, yes. I don’t particularly like his demeanour.  I wouldn’t have given him a three-year contract 18 months ago. But please find where I’ve written that I want him out. Go on. 

I honestly don’t know the right course of action. I debate it with myself every day. What I do find puzzling is the unswerving faith in him from some. It feels almost cultish at times. Just because I praised Harry’s post, people get their y-fronts in a twist. So be it. 

I’ll be at Millwall tonight hoping we can get three points, like I was at  the WBA game on Monday. I hope everyone on here will be joining me.

I didn’t boo on Monday. I didn’t shout ‘you don’t know what you’re doing’. I didn’t shout ‘we want Pearson out.’ 
What does make me laugh, though, is the ‘there’s no alternative’ narrative. There’s always an alternative. No one knows whether the alternative will be better or worse. But they assert that they do. I don’t know and nor do you. 
 

Sorry, thought you were from your posts, even if you haven’t said so. Apols if not.

re Alternatives, of course there’s always alternatives.  You or I could take on the job, or maybe partner up?

Back to reality, and your point, I’m not a subscriber to “if you can’t name a replacement, you can’t have an opinion” viewpoint, it’s why I often talk in terms of manager names by type, e.g. a Warne-type, an Ainsworth-type, a Duff-type, because availability is unknown by the likes of us, cost to dismiss Nige, cost to compensate new manager’s old club, etc.

Its a tough period at the mo’.

I’m just a patient bloke and prepared to watch how things go.  If we played like Boxing Day every week, I’d be worried.  But I think overall we will be ok.

Really interested in tonight’s performance, although digressing from your point.

 

[The Bard]

5 minutes ago, Colombo Robin said:

Its not 2 + 2 = anything but 4 though is it. Football aside, many people think Pearson is an arrogant, petulant ***** with a massively inflated opinion of himself. Is it really such a massive leap to think some of the players have the same view? 

 

 

Are these people who know him or just watch his interviews?  Virtually every successful manager has been an arrogant so and so.  Clough and Ferguson spring to mind.  If this is an issue for any players then it's best they leave isn't it?  Trouble is the process of whittling out those who can't cope takes some time.  We're clearly approaching a cull IMO.  He's said he's told some players they need to find a club.  Question is does he get his way or do we revert back to being soft old city, home of the overpaid hanger on. A nice early retirement home.

To rid ourselves of this, we need someone who is arrogant.  Who can sniff out the bluffers and not back down.  That isn't petulance. It's difficult and only gets done by those willing to see in the long term what is needed.  

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Colombo Robin said:

Its not 2 + 2 = anything but 4 though is it. Football aside, many people think Pearson is an arrogant, petulant ***** with a massively inflated opinion of himself. Is it really such a massive leap to think some of the players have the same view? 

 

 

Yes, if you listen to people like Ali Durden last week, who spoke about Nige on 3PIAP pod last week.  Yes, if you listen to the players (although you could accuse them of having a boot on their neck).  Yes, if you listen to ex-players, with the exception of Matt Mills and possibly Tyreeq Bakinson!  Yes, if you listen to his son.

I think (my opinion only) that the Nige you see in media interviews, is nothing like the Nige you see on the training ground / behind the scenes with the players.

One poster on here bumped into Nige over the previous summer and was amazed at how different he was.  Blurted out all manner of stuff like an excited schoolboy.

[David Brent]

2 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

You seem to have missed the point of the article and judging by your articulate suffix don’t want to see the point of it. 
 

Todays squad is better on paper than the one that LJ had - so why aren’t we higher in the table?

or do you think LJs squad was better?

that was what the OP was asking IMHO  

I think that’s a valid question. You probably don’t. 

All teams in this division have better squads now arguably. 

[ashton_fan]

LJ was correctly known as a "streaky" manager, his losing runs meant we never got in the top six, but equally his winning runs meant we were never in danger of relegation. What worries me about NP is that he doesn't do the coaching yet he does pick the team, how does that work? 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

What worries me about NP is that he doesn't do the coaching yet he does pick the team, how does that work? 

The same way it did for Ferguson, Clough, etc.

[bcfcredandwhite]

3 hours ago, glynriley said:

The FFS was in response to your rather juvenile offering "Pearson 'love-in' brigade"

As for the rest, if you, or anyone else on here, honestly believes that this current squad is in anyway stronger than any squad that LJ had during his reign, well, words fail me.

 

What an absolutely fascinating point of view

[ashton_fan]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The same way it did for Ferguson, Clough, etc.

I'm sure Clough did coaching especially when he was younger, him and Peter Taylor worked very closely in any case. Is anyone on our coaching staff working how to negate the opposition and if they do will NP pick the players to execute the plan, I have to say it doesn't look like it when they're on the pitch? They seem to play the same way every game which makes it easy for opposing coaches.

[firstdivision]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW, I think LJ’s “squad” was miles better than Nige’s “squad”.  If you put best team v best team that would be a good debate.  But I posted LJ’s squad in an earlier post (or other thread) and I think it is massively superior in its individual players, but importantly it’s depth.

I honestly don’t think comparing LJ with Nige can lead to a conclusive verdict, apples and pears really.  But it’s a forum and it provoked a good discussion, that’s the main thing.

Sorry, thought you were from your posts, even if you haven’t said so. Apols if not.

re Alternatives, of course there’s always alternatives.  You or I could take on the job, or maybe partner up?

Back to reality, and your point, I’m not a subscriber to “if you can’t name a replacement, you can’t have an opinion” viewpoint, it’s why I often talk in terms of manager names by type, e.g. a Warne-type, an Ainsworth-type, a Duff-type, because availability is unknown by the likes of us, cost to dismiss Nige, cost to compensate new manager’s old club, etc.

Its a tough period at the mo’.

I’m just a patient bloke and prepared to watch how things go.  If we played like Boxing Day every week, I’d be worried.  But I think overall we will be ok.

Really interested in tonight’s performance, although digressing from your point.

 

Apology accepted. 
We were ok tonight. A more logical team selection, thank god. Solid performance. Largely unattractive game. Millwall looked ordinary but they do some things very well, generally the ugly things.
Good to see Antoine back, too. He’s not quite at the level yet but he created one great chance, nearly scored and was a pest after a disjointed first 30. I nearly always select him in my team. I have King nowhere near it and I don’t have Weimann as wing back if I can help it. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by firstdivision

[BigTone]

16 hours ago, firstdivision said:

Apology accepted. 
We were ok tonight. A more logical team selection, thank god. Solid performance. Largely unattractive game. Millwall looked ordinary but they do some things very well, generally the ugly things.
Good to see Antoine back, too. He’s not quite at the level yet but he created one great chance, nearly scored and was a pest after a disjointed first 30. I nearly always select him in my team. I have King nowhere near it and I don’t have Weimann as wing back if I can help it. 

I think a draw is what most of us aspired to. Let's hope we can kick on this weekend.