Team for Birmingham match

[Davefevs]

@spudski “they got their timings wrong” - just been chatting to someone and also said same to guy next to me during match…our pressing triggers are all wrong, we are getting picked off, we aren’t anticipating the “out-ball” either.

Pearson said the other week that the best defenders also know how to defend when we have the ball.  It’s those moments where our move breaks down that we aren’t always switched on…and it costs us in allowing teams to pick passes.

In fairness to Swansea they got away with it a few times first half, a pass just missing being cut out.  Second half we timed things much better…we got into shape, then pressed.  Joe Allen and Fulton less able to split wide  like they did first half.

[spudski]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@spudski “they got their timings wrong” - just been chatting to someone and also said same to guy next to me during match…our pressing triggers are all wrong, we are getting picked off, we aren’t anticipating the “out-ball” either.

Pearson said the other week that the best defenders also know how to defend when we have the ball.  It’s those moments where our move breaks down that we aren’t always switched on…and it costs us in allowing teams to pick passes.

In fairness to Swansea they got away with it a few times first half, a pass just missing being cut out.  Second half we timed things much better…we got into shape, then pressed.  Joe Allen and Fulton less able to split wide  like they did first half.

I agree with that summary Dave. Funny how we are good at counter attacking, but it's one of our biggest weaknesses when defending. There was a moment first half where swans countered from their own box in numbers...we were so behind in being aware of it. 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree with that summary Dave. Funny how we are good at counter attacking, but it's one of our biggest weaknesses when defending. There was a moment first half where swans countered from their own box in numbers...we were so behind in being aware of it. 

I know, I’d have been tempted to not high press today unless it was a poor touch / pass to pounce upon (in hindsight / 15 mins in).  Mid / low block, conserve energy and then exploit space down the sides when winning it back.  It’s either that or go full-on 523, get the WBs high and the 3 strikers press the **** out of their 3 CBs and GK.

[redkev]

The biggest problem with picking a team for the next game as we all do is the bloody inconsistency of the players .All season it seems to be the five or six who play this week are bang average or less the next ( pring apart IMO) .

perfect example as simple as today . According to some last week was Max’s best game against Coventry , and the wave of optimism that Atkinson is back in defence instead of king . BOOM , look what happens today with those 2.

that’s been happening all season even if not huge mistakes but the drop off in performance from one week to another amongst the players has been quite startling , you really are guessing what five or six will play well this week and what five or six will have nightmares , there is our problem in a nutshell, it’s not fully about formations etc but get some bloody consistency in the performance of the players.

Edited January 8, 2023 by redkev

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, redkev said:

The biggest problem with picking a team for the next game as we all do is the bloody inconsistency of the players .All season it seems to be the five or six who play this week are bang average or less the next ( pring apart IMO) .

perfect example as simple as today . According to some last week was Max’s best game against Coventry , and the wave of optimism that Atkinson is back in defence instead of king . BOOM , look what happens today with those 2.

that’s been happening all season even if not huge mistakes but the drop off in performance from on week to another amongst the players has been quite startling , you really are guessing what five or six will play well this week and what five or six will have nightmares , there is hour problem in a nutshell, it’s not fully about formations etc but get some bloody consistency in the performance of the players.

I would have to disagree and say that Vyner has been our most consistent defender this season......by a massive distance too. I get the fact that there are some that made up their mind on him two years ago and won't have him full stop but that's what I'm seeing every week. The only issue I have with him on this season's form is that I want to see some leadership from him now he's got his own game up and running. Pring, as well as he has played since coming back into the fold and particularly going forward, got absolutely roasted the other week for 45 minutes against West Brom.

[tin]

2 hours ago, Dan Robin said:

Shame that we didn't do turnover: I understand that the cup can bring money, but I can't see us doing a cup run at the moment, so maybe it was not worth the risk.

That being said...I wouldn't risk Weimann and Conway in the next match if they're not 100% fit: Semenyo + Wells, with Scott/Sykes behind them and Bell/Martin on the bench.

I'd not be surprised to see King back in defence, after Rob's error.

If Conway and Weimann sit out the Birmingham game and we go 4-3-3, I’d throw Pring’s name into that front three.

He started out at LW, has pace and a decent cross, and would offer good cover for Naismith at LB.

All of this isn’t ideal, but it would probably be the best we could do without those two IMO.

Edited January 8, 2023 by tin

[Redrascal2]

5 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Brimingham City ffs when do we ever beat them

When do we beat anybody.

[spudski]

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know, I’d have been tempted to not high press today unless it was a poor touch / pass to pounce upon (in hindsight / 15 mins in).  Mid / low block, conserve energy and then exploit space down the sides when winning it back.  It’s either that or go full-on 523, get the WBs high and the 3 strikers press the **** out of their 3 CBs and GK.

I noticed their Coach mentioned how they were unable to keep up their intensity in the second half, and that our system change caused them problems. One thing NP has done, is get our players fit and capable to play with intensity for a full 90 mins. 

As you know, I'm not a fan of wing backs. I hope we do go 433/343 at some point to test our capabilities. 

Sykes, Atkinson, Naismith, Pring,

Williams, James, Scott,

Weimann, Conway, Wells.

Line up like that. 

Tanner can cover Sykes. As can Vyner also at CB.

Semenyo and Bell to cover forwards.

Playing Sykes and Pring as ' flying full backs, you have enough defensive cover from the middle 3, plus they also offer offensive qualities. 

I look at our players and see the qualities they have that suit 433... I'd love to know why NP hasn't used it more often and why he thinks it hasn't been capable, yet now seems to be seeing it as a possibility.

 

[Davefevs]

@spudskisithout getting too much into the tactical debate, Sykes could also play in the MF3…it’s his position really.

[Scrumpy_247]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nige gave Rob a bit of praise in his after-match press interview.

I noticed that, funny how things can change within a couple of weeks!

[Finley_Smith10]

58 minutes ago, spudski said:

I noticed their Coach mentioned how they were unable to keep up their intensity in the second half, and that our system change caused them problems. One thing NP has done, is get our players fit and capable to play with intensity for a full 90 mins. 

As you know, I'm not a fan of wing backs. I hope we do go 433/343 at some point to test our capabilities. 

Sykes, Atkinson, Naismith, Pring,

Williams, James, Scott,

Weimann, Conway, Wells.

Line up like that. 

Tanner can cover Sykes. As can Vyner also at CB.

Semenyo and Bell to cover forwards.

Playing Sykes and Pring as ' flying full backs, you have enough defensive cover from the middle 3, plus they also offer offensive qualities. 

I look at our players and see the qualities they have that suit 433... I'd love to know why NP hasn't used it more often and why he thinks it hasn't been capable, yet now seems to be seeing it as a possibility.

 

Sykes full back, really?

[MattWSM]

Bentley

Dasilva

Naismith

Atkinson

Vyner

Pring

Scott

Williams

Sykes

Semenyo

Wells

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OliOTIB]

Looking forward to Wilson being fit. Injury meant he hasnt been given a proper go, would of started agains Hull if he didnt pick up a knock which meant Sykes started in his place. Feel he could be a more energetic forward thinking option

[spudski]

55 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Sykes full back, really?

He played well in that position today

[Guest]

15 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Surely, surely, surely it is now time for Pearson to get over the ‘this squad has to play with a back 5’ nonsense and give 4-3-3 a go against Birmingham and a fair few games after that.  
 

We can debate the selection but I don’t think anyone would disagree with majority of this side.  Could argue needing to find a place for Naismith (defence or midfield) or an out of form Weimann for Conway. But assume most of you would (a) agree with formation and (b) agree with at least 9 of this 11

                     O’Leary

Tanner.  Vyner.  Atkinson.   Pring

           Scott. James. Williams.

        Conway.  Wells.  Semenyo 

 

1 win in 12 and 3 wins in 20 playing 5-3-2 (or whatever formation you want to call it).   Surely 4-3-3 cannot return fewer wins than that!!

Law of averages says we must win again soon, but with a stuttering attack and a error prone defence it may not be just yet for a while, whatever team NP selects.

Watched the game yesterday and thoughts were that we could yet lose Scott and Semenyo this week/month, 2 of our best players then what?

Yes would bring in funds to replace with a few others but other clubs are eyeing up those 2 for a reason they are a couple of the best around/available.

Watched bits of Cardiff and Blackpool games, they looked well up for it and the battles ahead, we need to be as well and need a win ....soon.

 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Well, we have no right sided centre half capable of playing in a two.

We have one player in the squad who is adept at playing wide. Everyone else would be a square peg in a round hole.

All our forwards play better in a two 

 

I still think this team is much stronger in a 3 centre halves formation. 

 

What it does highlight is that if you have a back three and a small squad it is hard to switch back and forth without having very versatile players.  And by versatile I mean players genuinely capable of playing in different positions.  We do have some, but not enough.

I said when Holden went to his 5122 that if you’re going to do that you’ve got to go “all-in” to it for recruitment, hence why the likes of a needless winger (Eliasson) was sold.

It is why I wished Nige had stuck with his back four early last season, because it compromises recruitment, although in Nige’s defence he’s recruited such a small number of players because he’s no money to play with.  We aren’t in a position to have “clubs in the bag” for either system switches or whim selections.

I think the biggest problem yesterday in the first half was that our 3 CBs were covered by Piroe, Cooper and Cullen, and Cooper was smart in being able to cover James too.  When our CBs split wide, it blocked off the lanes to Pring and Tanner too, meaning Swansea could swarm around any City recipient further up the pitch.  What we really needed was Tanner and Pring to “invert” (arrghhh, bollox lingo), sorry come inside.  It might’ve congested the middle of the pitch, but it would’ve gained us numerical advantage or at least parity.  That is the evolvement for me in both of their games, the ability to play inside in our own build up.  What we did see in the latter minutes of the first half is Atkinson driving forward a couple of times from winning ball high up, and Naismith changing his angle to come in-pitch to receive.  Occasionally Vyner got quick temp balls to stride forward himself, but not often.

[Davefevs]

Yes re Owura recall.

 

[NcnsBcfc]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What it does highlight is that if you have a back three and a small squad it is hard to switch back and forth without having very versatile players.  And by versatile I mean players genuinely capable of playing in different positions.  We do have some, but not enough.

I said when Holden went to his 5122 that if you’re going to do that you’ve got to go “all-in” to it for recruitment, hence why the likes of a needless winger (Eliasson) was sold.

It is why I wished Nige had stuck with his back four early last season, because it compromises recruitment, although in Nige’s defence he’s recruited such a small number of players because he’s no money to play with.  We aren’t in a position to have “clubs in the bag” for either system switches or whim selections.

I think the biggest problem yesterday in the first half was that our 3 CBs were covered by Piroe, Cooper and Cullen, and Cooper was smart in being able to cover James too.  When our CBs split wide, it blocked off the lanes to Pring and Tanner too, meaning Swansea could swarm around any City recipient further up the pitch.  What we really needed was Tanner and Pring to “invert” (arrghhh, bollox lingo), sorry come inside.  It might’ve congested the middle of the pitch, but it would’ve gained us numerical advantage or at least parity.  That is the evolvement for me in both of their games, the ability to play inside in our own build up.  What we did see in the latter minutes of the first half is Atkinson driving forward a couple of times from winning ball high up, and Naismith changing his angle to come in-pitch to receive.  Occasionally Vyner got quick temp balls to stride forward himself, but not often.

@Davefevs from the Lansdown, Naismith was badly hobbling, struggling with his calf after the game (I'm guessing that's why he was subbed, rather than the less mobile James). Alongside Conway, and Weimann; I would have a query over him for Saturday.

For what it's worth, I thought second half the back 4 actually played well, and the additional man in midfield (we were playing 541 at one stage with Wells up top) allowed us to get a grip of the midfield; and push Swansea backwards. That led to their defenders often panicking in their clearances (in particular the Wells chance).

I wouldn't be adverse to playing that 2nd half formation again against Birmingham, as I feel against a 3 at the back, Birmingham (who have lost their last 3) would push Chong, Deeney, and either Bacuna or Jutkiewitz, if he plays up against our 3.

The battle in the game will be won or lost in midfield again, as two teams in poor form will quickly turn into a physical battle.

[IAmNick]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@spudski “they got their timings wrong” - just been chatting to someone and also said same to guy next to me during match…our pressing triggers are all wrong, we are getting picked off, we aren’t anticipating the “out-ball” either.

Pearson said the other week that the best defenders also know how to defend when we have the ball.  It’s those moments where our move breaks down that we aren’t always switched on…and it costs us in allowing teams to pick passes.

In fairness to Swansea they got away with it a few times first half, a pass just missing being cut out.  Second half we timed things much better…we got into shape, then pressed.  Joe Allen and Fulton less able to split wide  like they did first half.

There was one very noticeable time in the first half Naismith started coming forward out of defence to put pressure on a Swansea player who wanted to receive the ball. As he got halfway to him, Pring steamed past him heading way upfield to pressure someone else, and Naismith visibly threw his hands up in frustration and had to retreat back into the space now left behind him. Small things but you can see what Pearson means, and how some of the youth/inexperience means lots of these learned behaviours will take extra time to embed.

[Clutton Caveman]

20 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Surely, surely, surely it is now time for Pearson to get over the ‘this squad has to play with a back 5’ nonsense and give 4-3-3 a go against Birmingham and a fair few games after that.  
 

We can debate the selection but I don’t think anyone would disagree with majority of this side.  Could argue needing to find a place for Naismith (defence or midfield) or an out of form Weimann for Conway. But assume most of you would (a) agree with formation and (b) agree with at least 9 of this 11

                     O’Leary

Tanner.  Vyner.  Atkinson.   Pring

           Scott. James. Williams.

        Conway.  Wells.  Semenyo 

 

1 win in 12 and 3 wins in 20 playing 5-3-2 (or whatever formation you want to call it).   Surely 4-3-3 cannot return fewer wins than that!!

Based on likely injuries I would play

                 O’Leary

Tanner.  Vyner.  Atkinson.   Pring

          Naismith, James. Williams

                   Scot          

           Wells.  Semenyo.

If Conway is fit Semenyo is on the bench. Earlier in the season Wells and Conway where great together but today they are hardly ever played together.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

On 08/01/2023 at 19:16, redpole said:

If Weimann is injured as well as Conway, I would put Atkinson in Defence as I thought he played well today, got a bad ball from max on his wrong foot, push Naismith into the midfield 3 along with James and Williams and have Scott and Semenyo either side of Wells. 

What if Naismith not fit ?

[Cityboy1954]

22 hours ago, MattWSM said:

Bentley

Dasilva

Naismith

Atkinson

Vyner

Pring

Scott

Williams

Sykes

Semenyo

Wells

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus god help us 

[Cityboy1954]

1 minute ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Jesus god help us Dasilva with their attack of Deeney etc high balls :laugh:

 

[Davefevs]

I guess we are looking at the following players as being in the mix as starters:

O’Leary (1)

Tanner Vyner Atkinson Naismith Pring Dasilva (6)

Sykes Scott James Williams (4)

Wells Semenyo (2)

11 / 13 legitimate starters.

Then the following definite on the bench (assuming Bentley not off):

Bentley King Bell (3)

And then the probables:

Kadji (1)

And then the possibles (1 / 4)

Martin Taylor-Clarke Massengo Klose (4)

I do think Nige will stick with a back three to start with and my guess is that Dasilva will be in the bench with Sykes.

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I guess we are looking at the following players as being in the mix as starters:

O’Leary (1)

Tanner Vyner Atkinson Naismith Pring Dasilva (6)

Sykes Scott James Williams (4)

Wells Semenyo (2)

11 / 13 legitimate starters.

Then the following definite on the bench (assuming Bentley not off):

Bentley King Bell (3)

And then the probables:

Kadji (1)

And then the possibles (1 / 4)

Martin Taylor-Clarke Massengo Klose (4)

I do think Nige will stick with a back three to start with and my guess is that Dasilva will be in the bench with Sykes.

 

looks like we are down to the bare bones and hoping for no more injuries, in what is a pretty vital month playing bottom 2 of the 3 rivals Brum and Huddersfield and promo chasers Blackburn. 3pts for us tomorrow would ease fears.

[cidered abroad]

O'Leary

Tanner Vyner Atkinson Pring

Scott James Williams Naismith

Wells Semenyo

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GrahamC]

16 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

O'Leary

Tanner Vyner Atkinson Pring

Scott James Williams Naismith

Wells Semenyo

 

 

 

 

 

 

Birmingham play 3-5-2.

Same players, but with Naismith in his “usual” position.

Subs look to me like Bentley, Sykes, Dasilva, King, Kadji, Bell & based on Pearson’s comments yesterday, Martin.

That hardly looks like “bare bones”, 5 very experienced subs plus Bell who has been on the bench for quite a while now. Kadji the only inexperienced one & it might not be him (though doubt it would be HNM).

[cidered abroad]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Birmingham play 3-5-2.

Same players, but with Naismith in his “usual” position.

Subs look to me like Bentley, Sykes, Dasilva, King, Kadji, Bell & based on Pearson’s comments yesterday, Martin.

That hardly looks like “bare bones”, 5 very experienced subs plus Bell who has been on the bench for quite a while now. Kadji the only inexperienced one & it might not be him (though doubt it would be HNM).

Then a back three of Vyner Atkinson and Naismith. Tanner and Pring as more defensive minded wing backs.

[1960maaan]

I'd stick with the usual back line and change if/when needed.

                  O'Leary

      Vyner Atkinson Naismith

Sykes           James          Pring

      Scott           Williams

         Wells Semenyo

With the back 3 it allows the slightly more front foot Sykes to come in and add balance to Pring. The bench isn't the strongest but the starting XI is decent. Could be that situation HNM gets on the bench, or he fills the slots with kids .

Bench
Bentley - DaSilva - Tanner - Kadji - King - Bell - Massengo/Taylor-Clarke/AN Other

 

[Cityboy1954]

On 09/01/2023 at 11:48, Clutton Caveman said:

Based on likely injuries I would play

                 O’Leary

Tanner.  Vyner.  Atkinson.   Pring

          Naismith, James. Williams

                   Scot          

           Wells.  Semenyo.

If Conway is fit Semenyo is on the bench. Earlier in the season Wells and Conway where great together but today they are hardly ever played together.

Not bad team our main issue is the midfield has been for a while its too imobile james and williams not up to the pace of the game .