Wolves fan arrested after calling aways fans something not nice

[LondonBristolian]

22 minutes ago, ooRya said:

Thank you for that considered response.

I DO get where you're coming from, but at the same time still struggle with how people are so easily offended these days.

Having said that, I will readily admit to being of the generation that grew up during the 1970's - a decade where stereotypes were one of the main sources of humour/comedy, so accept that I'm probably very "out of date!"

Even in the 70s though, you had people being very easily offended. It was just by different things.

I find it hard to believe how of Life of Brian, or the Sex Pistols swearing TV had anywhere near the impact it did. And people might have not get upset then by homophobic abuse but something as banal as two men kissing each other would have caused uproar in a lot of places. Even a black person kissing a white person in many others. I honestly don't think it easy to portray a society upset by people kissing each other as less "easily offended" than one that doesn't really like people screaming abuse at each other. 

[cheese]

9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Even in the 70s though, you had people being very easily offended. It was just by different things.

I find it hard to believe how of Life of Brian, or the Sex Pistols swearing TV had anywhere near the impact it did. And people might have not get upset then by homophobic abuse but something as banal as two men kissing each other would have caused uproar in a lot of places. Even a black person kissing a white person in many others. I honestly don't think it easy to portray a society upset by people kissing each other as less "easily offended" than one that doesn't really like people screaming abuse at each other. 

Just thinking of all those Judge Dread songs that were banned (cancelled) back then.  Host of others too - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_banned_by_the_BBC

[Open End Numb Legs]

As an older person, I try hard to adapt to today's standards and as far as I know I manage to do that.

It isn't easy though as there are many new initiatives and therefore pitfalls to avoid. As such it is pretty easy to make an innocent mistake and then have to learn from it which I am more than happy to do.

So in this context, seeing as there is enough unintentional hurt going on, it does seem unacceptable to intentionally go out to pass on discriminative hate to someone. As others have pointed out, you don't know what their threshold is for accepting the abuse.

An analogy would be, there will always be accidental collisions on the pitch with serious injuries, so to go out and deliberately hurt another player is not acceptable.

My moral compass on this is a good friend and work colleague who is mixed race and incidentally hates forced box ticking, the like of which we see in business and to his view causes more problems than it solves.

[Victory Park Reds]

6 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

The way this was phrased I was expecting the word used to just be a swear word. 

To then read you're disappointed that someone has been punished for being a bigot is pretty damning.

Yes times have changed. For the better. Homophobia, transphobia and Racism have no part in "banter". And quite rightly. We still have some way to go, it wasn't all that long ago as a teen I remember joining in with chants at Freddy Eastwood "the wheels on his house"... having grown up and learned more about the hate and prejudices faced by the RGT community I feel shame that I ever thought that was acceptable. 

I think it's important we all accept our unconscious biases and how they manifest in the way we talk. Terrace culture should be a means to unite ourselves around the values that make Bristol the best city in the world. Tolerance, self deprecation and humour. A fierce and formidable loyalty to each other, our club and our city. It doesn't have to spill into hatred. 

Except the Gas. I hate them... 

I totally agree with the last line of your post.I would add I really really hate them as much as I hate plant based food .Sorry for intolerance about plant based foods.I hang my head in shame

[joe jordans teeth]

8 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

Homophobia is just "banter", eh?

Is it not,if someone calls me a fat barsteward can I get them arrested 

[View from the Dolman]

9 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Is it not,if someone calls me a fat barsteward can I get them arrested 

Quite possibly, yes.

If it causes you alarm or distress - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/5

If it was done with intent and causes you alarm or distress - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/4A

[Harry]

So we even know what was said yet? 

[BigTone]

44 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Is it not,if someone calls me a fat barsteward can I get them arrested 

But are you really a Bar Steward ?

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, BigTone said:

But are you really a Bar Steward ?

Yes

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, View from the Dolman said:

Quite possibly, yes.

If it causes you alarm or distress - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/5

If it was done with intent and causes you alarm or distress - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/4A

Thank you,do you think I could get a Netflix series out of me being a bar steward and fat 

[joe jordans teeth]

On a serious note is this what has become of this country,I don’t really want to hit someone over the head with a object,can we not sing old school songs without being accused of all and sundry 

[BigTone]

16 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Yes

I'll have a pint Sir

[Son of Fred]

6 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Are Swansea/Cardiff/Newport not Sheepshaggers anymore. Asking for a friend? 

It's the sheep I feel sorry for

[BigTone]

9 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

On a serious note is this what has become of this country,I don’t really want to hit someone over the head with a object,can we not sing old school songs without being accused of all and sundry 

Nope

[Dolman_Stand]

I can never really decide on this kind of stuff, it's pretty clear that football is far more sanitised than it was 20 years ago yet I wouldn't even consider going to an away game anymore due to the level of bone head knuckle draggers we (and all other clubs) seem to attract which is far worse than I can remember even a decade ago. For all the clamping down on chanting (most of which is obviously a good thing I.e. racial abuse etc) is it actually working? Same goes for society as a whole really, with all the cancel culture/"wokeism" that is prevalent in modern Britain societal behaviour is in the mud.

[BigTone]

Just now, Son of Fred said:

It's the sheep I feel sorry for

Especially Baabara & Maary

[joe jordans teeth]

Just now, BigTone said:

Nope

So I’m better off actually doing it because the old bill will be to busy going round houses to tell people to stop watching illegal streams or silly songs is what you’re telling me 

[BigTone]

16 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

I can never really decide on this kind of stuff, it's pretty clear that football is far more sanitised than it was 20 years ago yet I wouldn't even consider going to an away game anymore due to the level of bone head knuckle draggers we (and all other clubs) seem to attract which is far worse than I can remember even a decade ago. For all the clamping down on chanting (most of which is obviously a good thing I.e. racial abuse etc) is it actually working? Same goes for society as a whole really, with all the cancel culture/"wokeism" that is prevalent in modern Britain societal behaviour is in the mud.

I went to see City a few years back away at QPR.  A  group of young morons headed up by the chief moron decided to give it large to the QPR supporters adjacent the away end big time. Problem for me was that most of the QPR contingent were families with young kids. Frankly I was disgusted and embarrassed by our travelling support (not all I must add). Hence my thoughts on having our Ultras (as they have decided to be known for no other reason than it makes them sound tough in their own tiny minds) in close proximity to opposition supporters. Planks the lot of them with IQ's that have never seen double figures and never will.

Edited January 13, 2023 by BigTone

[BigTone]

16 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

So I’m better off actually doing it because the old bill will be to busy going round houses to tell people to stop watching illegal streams or silly songs is what you’re telling me 

Can't answer that one for you.

Edited January 13, 2023 by BigTone

[joe jordans teeth]

10 minutes ago, BigTone said:

I went to see City a few years back away at QPR.  A  group of young morons headed up by the chief moron decided to give it large to the QPR supporters adjacent the away end big time. Problem for me was that most of the QPR contingent were families with young kids. Frankly I was disgusted and embarrassed by our travelling support (not all I must add). Hence my thoughts on having our Ultras (as they have decided to be known for no other reason than it makes them sound tough in their own tiny minds) in close proximity to opposition supporters. Planks the lot of them with IQ's that have never seen double figures and never will.

Don’t get the ultra stuff myself,is it a branch of the csf who like to stand at the back but don’t want to get involved 

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Don’t get the ultra stuff myself,is it a branch of the csf who like to stand at the back but don’t want to get involved 

That's them I think

[joe jordans teeth]

1 minute ago, BigTone said:

That's them I think

Bless ‘em 

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Bless ‘em 

My thoughts exactly. So tough they eat the red smarties first.

Edited January 13, 2023 by BigTone

[joe jordans teeth]

6 minutes ago, BigTone said:

My thoughts exactly. So tough they eat the red smarties first.

Bloody nutters 

[BigTone]

Just now, joe jordans teeth said:

Bloody nutters 

That's being derogatory of nutters !!

[Rebounder]

5 hours ago, ooRya said:

Thank you for that considered response.

I DO get where you're coming from, but at the same time still struggle with how people are so easily offended these days.

Having said that, I will readily admit to being of the generation that grew up during the 1970's - a decade where stereotypes were one of the main sources of humour/comedy, so accept that I'm probably very "out of date!"

Back then a lot of people were offended by Men openly kissing in public. There are still  people around now that would struggle with it. I think it's a bit of a myth that society wasn't so easily offended back then, it's just we're not offended by the same things now. In the 70's a lot of those jokes did hurt and offend a lot of people, they just didn't have the voice  to be able to call it out, and society generally didn't care that they were being discriminated against. 

It's not "easily offended" when you have been assaulted and abused for your sexuality. Using sexuality as an insult towards someone else indicates that there is something wrong with it, and that feeds into a narrative that they are less than. The person making the joke might not be homophobic, but they are helping to perpetuate that idea and that does lead to real life discrimination of gay people. 

I totally acknowledge that we all make mistakes and I've made loads of jokes that I look back on and regret - I will definitely do it again I'm sure. Language is also changing constantly and I think most people are more scared of getting something wrong so they retreat into a defensive stance straight away - "people are just to easy to offend these days" I think it's okay to get something wrong and to reflect on it. People also have the right to challenge us on something we've said even if we don't agree with it. 

As always context and situation are important. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Rebounder

[joe jordans teeth]

3 minutes ago, Rebounder said:

Back then a lot of people were offended by Men openly kissing in public. There are still  people around now that would struggle with it. I think it's a bit of a myth that society wasn't so easily offended back then, it's just we're not offended by the same things now. In the 70's a lot of those jokes did hurt and offend a lot of people, they just didn't have the voice  to be able to call it out, and society generally didn't care that they were being discriminated against. 

It's not "easily offended" when you have been assaulted and abused for your sexuality. Using sexuality as an insult towards someone else indicates that there is something wrong with it, and that feeds into a narrative that they are less than. The person making the joke might not be homophobic, but they are helping to perpetuate that idea and that does lead to real life discrimination of gay people. 

I totally acknowledge that we all make mistakes and I've made loads of jokes that I look back on and regret - I will definitely do it again I'm sure. Language is also changing constantly and I think most people are more scared of getting something wrong so they retreat into a defensive stance straight away - "people are just to easy to offend these days" I think it's okay to get something wrong and to reflect on it. People also have the right to challenge us on something we've said even if we don't agree with it. 

As always context and situation are important. 

Are jokes not able to offend whatever subject you want,be it racism,sexuality or religion because at the moment it’s clearly people getting offended on others behalf (I’m going to use the I have loads of black friends stereotype because I actually do) and none either young or old couldn’t care less if you call them black or coloured but the PC brigade say it must be black,as for Mohammad and religious jokes that’s a minefield but God jokes fill your boots 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

11 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

My statement was a general one about banter but your comment makes my case.

Agreeing to disagree is dead. If you disagree you are a bad person, if you dare to express a personal opinion that differs in any way from the current popular position you are automatically a bigot.

Free speech and free thought is being shut down by an ultra left minority. God help us.

It would be the right in this country that is shutting down free speech and free thought most certainty not the left.

[Rebounder]

1 hour ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Are jokes not able to offend whatever subject you want,be it racism,sexuality or religion because at the moment it’s clearly people getting offended on others behalf (I’m going to use the I have loads of black friends stereotype because I actually do) and none either young or old couldn’t care less if you call them black or coloured but the PC brigade say it must be black,as for Mohammad and religious jokes that’s a minefield but God jokes fill your boots 

Is it clearly people getting offended on others behalf though? That's not been my experience. A lot of my female friends find jokes about rape distasteful for example. I can understand why those jokes are really problematic now even though growing up I just thought they were funny. I used to think Sickapedia was the funniest thing on the internet. 

I know my family network used to make a lot of racist jokes which had an impact on me as a teenager and that's why I think it's good to think carefully about the narratives you're feeding into. Like a lot of white people I have been racist in the past and said racist jokes. I could either double down on that and talk about how everyone's so easily offended, or I could reflect on my behaviour to understand where it came from, the impact it had and think about how I want to be moving forward. 

As far as I know no black person I have ever been friends with, or worked with has had a problem with being called black and that's always how they've described themselves so why would I say coloured? Some really don't like the word coloured particularly those around my age as it was dying out then - so naturally I am not going to use it. I also recognise that it's not helpful to jump down peoples throat if they do use it, and that just because someone does use it that they are racist. I know for a fact I am not perfect. 

It's worth remembering that we are not one homogenous groups of people. I couldn't speak for the entire LGBT community and there will be people that would disagree with me - I definitely disagree with others a lot. Just like not all black people agree about what is racist, and what's not. It's more complex than a set of binary laws made in Westminster. 

In terms of comedy whose making the jokes? I have been to see a Muslim comedian who uses some of his experiences in comedy. It was really funny and also interesting to hear from his perspective. I guess that could feed into a narrative, but it was really clever and thoughtful rather than "Mohamad :laugh:." I've also seen some great comedies made by people who grew up in a similar environment to me and it was way better than any of the shit made by posh public school/university kids. Making jokes about your own culture is quite different to making them about someone else's in my opinion, but maybe that's wrong? I also don't think it's necessarily true you cant make a joke about another culture, but I think it's a lot harder to do without falling into tropes and merely causing offence. So be good at it and clever I guess? 

Comedy always sails a bit close to the wind and sometimes it oversteps it. I don't feel it's as under attack as people make out as there are some great small comedy nights around. You won't necessarily find much racism. Not only because its not accepted, but because what's left of that material that hasn't been said already? 

Sorry for the long post again. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Rebounder

[Davefevs]

@Reboundergood post, think it shows that “awareness” is pretty important in all of this.  Some of it needs to be self-education, some of it sometimes needs others to do the educating.