Next Season....Recruitment etc

[cidercity1987]

Cameron Pring is fast becoming our best player on current form

Interest from a parachute club might not be unexpected in the summer?

[James54De]

Had Kalas finished the season for, I would have loved him to stay. However, the boy can’t stay fit. Doesn’t matter how good he is if his knees have given up. 

[BCFC_Dan]

I thought what we really missed last night was someone in midfield to receive the ball from the back 4 and move it forward. I'd imagine it could have been Naismith had he been fit.

Most of our possession last night consisted of passing the ball across the back, looking for an outlet. Huddersfield did press, but nobody seemed to get themselves free in the middle to receive a short pass, and instead it tended to stay at the back until a long pass was on, or to progress down the flanks via winning throw ins.

James was outstanding as a combative midfielder, but he seldom took the ball from defence and moved it forward. This seemed to really limit our effectiveness as an attacking force.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

I thought what we really missed last night was someone in midfield to receive the ball from the back 4 and move it forward. I'd imagine it could have been Naismith had he been fit.

Most of our possession last night consisted of passing the ball across the back, looking for an outlet. Huddersfield did press, but nobody seemed to get themselves free in the middle to receive a short pass, and instead it tended to stay at the back until a long pass was on, or to progress down the flanks via winning throw ins.

James was outstanding as a combative midfielder, but he seldom took the ball from defence and moved it forward. This seemed to really limit our effectiveness as an attacking force.

Atkinson and his ball carrying ability would also have given us another option while posing some extra issues for them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Posted bits of this elsewhere but next season as it stands.

Still contracted and almost certain to be here

GK:

O'Leary

RB/RWB:

Tanner, Wilson

CB:

Atkinson, Vyner- (Technically out of contract but option in club's favour).

LB:

Pring

CM:

James, Naismith, Williams

Wider players- dunno the exact positional terms.

Benarous, Cornick, Mehmeti, Sykes

Forwards of varying types:

Bell, Conway, Weimann, Wells

Decisions to be made

GK:

Hakin, Bajic

CB:

Kalas

LB:

DaSilva

CM:

King?

Of course, the big transfer saga of the summer will be Scott. How much, loan back etc?

Some of the above are versatile and their positions aren't fixed either.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

 

No way good enough for Championship standard football imo. 

Behind Low...who imo would be a last resort and needs another season out on loan. 

And both wayyyyy behind Towler who's having a blinder at Pompey. 

Currently he may well be / is…but this thread is about next season.  Last season his development meant he was given the chance to play in a couple of games, so it’s perfectly possible he could at least get back to that level and / or improve.

 

[Cityboy1954]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

The recent 'Problems up front' thread got me thinking last night. As some valid points were made regarding players. 

With the recent departure of Semenyo, the long term injuries to Kalas and Williams and age catching up with some prominent essential players, I thought the subject deserved a thread of it's own. 

Tinman has alluded to bringing in possibly 4 players next season. 

Is this enough?

We are likely to sell Scott for decent money. 

Kalas (30 next season) injury prone likely to not get a renewed contract, but can't be relied on for a full season. 

Williams...again...injury prone. We can't rely on him being a regular.

King will be 35 next season. Age catches up just like it did with Klose.

Naismith had a bad injury, will be 32 next season.

James...been fantastic this season, but again, will be 32 next season. Age catches up. 

Weimann will be 32, hasn't been great this season. On a downward slope?

Wells will be 33. He's been good, but again...legs don't last.

Massengo will be gone, doubts over DaSilva, maybe interest in the likes of Pring. 

That's 11 players with question marks. 

Take those away...and it leaves us with this.

GK 

Haikin 27, O'Leary 26

DF 

Atkinson (long term injury) 24

Vyner 25

Wilson 22

Tanner 23

MF 

Benarous (long term injury) 19

Sykes 25

Mehmeti 22

Forwards 

Conway ( long term injury ) 20

Cornick 27

Bell 20

So in short. We have age catching up with some influential players. Injury prone players who are deemed first team starts we can't rely on. Our best players leaving/ just left. Players coming back from injury, and new recruits who are showing how long it takes to gell. 

I can't see anyone in our current academy that can come in and start on a regular basis and be good enough to make an impact that would make us a solid Championship side. 

So we can't rely on that?

Whilst our younger players will have another season under their belts and positively developing ( Tanner, Sykes eg) our experienced players have imo, reached their peak, and will be on a downward slope. Age just catches up. Even more so when playing with such high intensity we are aiming to play. 

It's been said we will be looking to recruit, young hungry players from League 1 with games under their belt. 

What about replacing our experienced players. James has been a rock. But next season? 

Thoughts?

Great post so true all ageing players if he goes on this shoestring budget knowing our injury record could be a struggle for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

We've known for a while that this summer will be a busy one. It's not surprising that we're all talking about big movements. A number of players are OOC, it's clear from January that we want rid of Dasilva and Massengo. Scott will surely go. 

From either the academy or elsewhere (including free agents in short contracts - for example to cover CB until Atkinson comes back) I reckon we need: 2CBs, 1LB, 2CM. Minimum. Probably at least one wide player as well - whether left or right depends on how we see Pring, Sykes, Tanner and Mr. NewLB being used.

[1960maaan]

We have 3 goalkeepers, whatever we think of their levels I doubt we will be messing about there.
We have 2 Right backs , probably not priority
We have 1 Left back , (depending on JD ) Going to need one in *
We have 1 Centre Back (Atkinson missing to start) Need at least 2 *
We have (with Naismith & OTC) 4 Midfielders (if Scott goes) and a doubt over Williams. Going to need 1 maybe 2 in *
We have ( with Benarous )3 Wide Midfielders Not a priority
We have 5 Strikers , might like some quality or something different. 

I make that, we need 5 in, but the squad might need more. Going to be another tough Summer. I know we are supposed to have at least 4 targets , not sure that will be enough. It all depends how much we get from selling, how much the "must haves" cost, whether we can afford more.
Nige and the gang have done ok with recruitment so far, they will have to be at the top of their game this Summer.

[LondonBristolian]

Like others, I see the 4 signings as "players we know for sure we need" rather than an absolute final number. I'd assume it is based on a scenario where Vyner either Haikin stays or Bajic becomes number two and Dasilva leaves with Kalas to be decided

I'd imagine the number would change in the event or Vyner not staying, Haikin and Bajic both leaving or Dasilva suddenly earning himself a new contract (which I suspect is unlikely).

I'd imagine the 4 in that scenario are a left back, 2 centre backs and a midfielder.

IF all that happened then that would leave:

GK - O'Leary, Haikin and/or Bajic - should be enough.

RB - Wilson & Tanner plus Sykes as cover - should be enough

CB - Vyner, Naismith, New CB 1, New CB 2 and Atkinson in late Autumn, possibly Kalas plus Pring and Tanner as cover - should be enough.

LB - Pring, New LB plus Naismith and Wilson as cover - should be enough 

CM - James, Williams, Scott, New CM, possibly King plus Weimann, Sykes, Naismith as cover. Taylor-Smith and Kadjj may be in the mix too plus Benarous in early 2024 - should be enough

FW - Wells, Sykes, Mehmeti, Cornick, Bell, Conway and Weimann - should be enough.

That leaves us with a 23 - 25 man squad. That ought to be enough depth and I doubt we'd add anymore without departures. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'd imagine the 4 in that scenario are a left back, 2 centre backs and a midfielder.

Agree….the priority ones, the ones with wheels already in motion.  That’s not to say you get them, but they are your “no regrets”.  If two of those four are O’Brien and Currie, then they won’t be expected to hit the ground running either.  They are long-term signings, like Atkinson, Wilson, even Mehmeti.

Then the rest of the summer recruitment is a bit more fluid.  Especially from fans perspective, because we don’t know the fate of certain players, e.g. Dasilva, Scott, etc.

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Agree….the priority ones, the ones with wheels already in motion.  That’s not to say you get them, but they are your “no regrets”.  If two of those four are O’Brien and Currie, then they won’t be expected to hit the ground running either.  They are long-term signings, like Atkinson, Wilson, even Mehmeti.

Then the rest of the summer recruitment is a bit more fluid.  Especially from fans perspective, because we don’t know the fate of certain players, e.g. Dasilva, Scott, etc.

I get the feeling DaSilva's time here is over, he would be on decent wages and I ( with absolutely nothing to go on ) feel Nige would like a bigger , stronger , more powerful version. With Pring in place , one for the future would make sense, time to grow with the team.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I get the feeling DaSilva's time here is over, he would be on decent wages and I ( with absolutely nothing to go on ) feel Nige would like a bigger , stronger , more powerful version. With Pring in place , one for the future would make sense, time to grow with the team.

Totally agree.

[firstdivision]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Totally agree.

I agree too.

But here's a question for anyone really. Dasilva is out of contract in the summer (and probably leaving) but is playing/part of the squad. Massengo is out of contract in the summer, but was basically frozen out. He's now on loan when anyone with half a wit could see we might easily find ourselves short in midfield. Couldn't we have been more pragmatic? We gave Massengo a four-year contract. Get four years worth out of him at least.

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by firstdivision

[spudski]

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Like others, I see the 4 signings as "players we know for sure we need" rather than an absolute final number. I'd assume it is based on a scenario where Vyner either Haikin stays or Bajic becomes number two and Dasilva leaves with Kalas to be decided

I'd imagine the number would change in the event or Vyner not staying, Haikin and Bajic both leaving or Dasilva suddenly earning himself a new contract (which I suspect is unlikely).

I'd imagine the 4 in that scenario are a left back, 2 centre backs and a midfielder.

IF all that happened then that would leave:

GK - O'Leary, Haikin and/or Bajic - should be enough.

RB - Wilson & Tanner plus Sykes as cover - should be enough

CB - Vyner, Naismith, New CB 1, New CB 2 and Atkinson in late Autumn, possibly Kalas plus Pring and Tanner as cover - should be enough.

LB - Pring, New LB plus Naismith and Wilson as cover - should be enough 

CM - James, Williams, Scott, New CM, possibly King plus Weimann, Sykes, Naismith as cover. Taylor-Smith and Kadjj may be in the mix too plus Benarous in early 2024 - should be enough

FW - Wells, Sykes, Mehmeti, Cornick, Bell, Conway and Weimann - should be enough.

That leaves us with a 23 - 25 man squad. That ought to be enough depth and I doubt we'd add anymore without departures. 

'Should be enough'...for what?

I look at that list, the age, experience, injuries, with trepidation. Hence my Op. 

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

'Should be enough'...for what?

I look at that list, the age, experience, injuries, with trepidation. Hence my Op. 

I think without knowing who the replacements are, it is very hard to say either way.

If we decide not to offer Kalas anything & bring in 2 centre backs (as I expect) then no way will both of them be inexperienced 21-23 year olds with absolutely no Championship experience.

Likewise when Massengo goes & Scott almost certainly does, I can’t see both midfield replacements being as above.

The squad probably won’t be any larger than this year, but moving on Taylor Moore, Owura Edwards & with Nathan Baker also leaving the wage bill too for much sadder reasons we will have a similar number of players but more contributors, I expect.

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I think without knowing who the replacements are, it is very hard to say either way.

If we decide not to offer Kalas anything & bring in 2 centre backs (as I expect) then no way will both of them be inexperienced 21-23 year olds with absolutely no Championship experience.

Likewise when Massengo goes & Scott almost certainly does, I can’t see both midfield replacements being as above.

The squad probably won’t be any larger than this year, but moving on Taylor Moore, Owura Edwards & with Nathan Baker also leaving the wage bill too for much sadder reasons we will have a similar number of players but more contributors, I expect.

You'd hope so. However for all the reasons I've mentioned, you cannot help looking at the squad, it's history with injuries, the age increase in experienced players, experienced players with Prem credentials, and look at what ponds we are fishing in...wage structure etc and not see a glaring problem. 

[1960maaan]

30 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

I agree too.

But here's a question for anyone really. Dasilva is out of contract in the summer (and probably leaving) but is playing/part of the squad. Massengo is out of contract in the summer, but was basically frozen out. He's now on loan when anyone with half a wit could see we might easily find ourselves short in midfield. Couldn't we have been more pragmatic? We gave Massengo a four-year contract. Get four years worth out of him at least.

 

As I see it.
It was as much us running DaSilvas contract down as him, as far as I know there has been no offer. Plus we have 2 left backs at the Club and now one is filling in at CB = no option.
HNM was offered a contract some time ago and is clearly not interested in signing. We had King, James, Williams, Naismith ,Scott, Kadji, OTC even Sykes. Playing Massengo , knowing he wouldn't be here next year could be seen as short termism, even blocking the pathway for the young lads that would be here next year. When the window closed we had most of those available. 

It's only now, now that we've lost Williams, Naismith, Kadji (loan) , James (potentially ) that we look thin on the ground.
IMO it made sense to send him on loan and save a few quid.

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

But we've fished in quite big ponds attracting players like James, Naismith and Cornick. We have a wage structure in place where can match the wages of the top ten, but we will supplement that with cheaper academy/up and coming players.

That seems a perfectly reasonable and extremely sensible approach considering our finances in recent years.

I'd expect us to add some experience, whether that be at this level or players with a lot of games at the level below. 

I'm fairly confident in the plan, it's not chasing a dream but building slowly to a sustainable future that means we won't need wholesale arrivals every summer. This team (when we've finally circumnavigated this final contract stage for the last remnants of the Ashton era) will grow together and improve over a 2-5 year period.

We've just gotta be patient for once!

Ultimately summer 2024 will be another big step in our evolution if you think of those 30 somethings that will potentially be a less significant part of the squad by then and the succession planning around that. We'll probably be selling Mehmeti for 25m by then too!

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

But we've fished in quite big ponds attracting players like James, Naismith and Cornick. We have a wage structure in place where can match the wages of the top ten, but we will supplement that with cheaper academy/up and coming players.

That seems a perfectly reasonable and extremely sensible approach considering our finances in recent years.

I'd expect us to add some experience, whether that be at this level or players with a lot of games at the level below. 

I'm fairly confident in the plan, it's not chasing a dream but building slowly to a sustainable future that means we won't need wholesale arrivals every summer. This team (when we've finally circumnavigated this final contract stage for the last remnants of the Ashton era) will grow together and improve over a 2-5 year period.

We've just gotta be patient for once!

I see the same... however...it's still cause for concern if we can't better what we have had this season. 

You are correct in what you see imo...without sounding contrived. 

But considering the how we've struggled this season, my concern is, another year older leggy highly experienced players, injury prone players, academy players, league 1 rough diamonds, are they going to improve on this season? 

The highly experienced players of James, King, Wells, Weimann, Naismith, Kalas. Fantastic players in their prime. But next season?

That's my concern. 

[robinforlife2]

I would like to see Haitkin get given a run of games now. The club will have already made a decision regarding Max in giving him a new contract or exercising the extra year, and whilst Bajic will be back from loan, I think we've got this experienced keeper here until the end of the season and he's yet to play for us. We aren't going down and we're not making the playoffs, so it would be ideal to give him 10 games and see what he is about and whether he is worth keeping for next season, and/or if he could be competition for Max. 

[DaveInSA]

I've pontificated about this before as well.

Since the Lord God Our Saviour Mark Ashton left BCFC, we've had less than thruppence ha'penny to spend on players.

In the past 2 years we've seen a radical trimming of the squad, with useful additions to create a competitive outcome. This summer is the first summer that we will see us able to spend some money, and it won't be a lot and the market has shifted at our level - so a £3million pound player 3 years ago is much lower today.

I would expect 6-8 incoming this summer, assuming that the OOC players don't sign new deals. If they do, the incoming decreases accordingly. And I would also expect no "keynote" signings.

On the older players I would like to think that we're being led by the sports science. Some players can easily play at the top level to age 35 and above. Others can't. It's player specific. And these guys have so much to teach the incoming new players and our academy youngsters.

I'm expecting 23/24 to be one of gaining momentum. And if we do that then 24/25 we could make inroads to the play offs.

The question is, do we want to be in the Premier league, getting beat every week, like Everton?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

9 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Best case scenario is the Newcastle rumours are true and they give us 25 million and Alex back on loan for another year. That way we keep Alex and have lots to spend on recruitment. A few loans too and we’re back up to a squad.

Of the 11 players with question marks, all 11 aren’t going to be gone or past it in 6 months time. I understand it’s a worst case scenario analysis but Weimann, Wells, James will all have more to give. Williams injury record is improving. I don’t think Cam will leave. 

I thought the rumour was 35 mill for Scott with season back with us. I could be wrong . And with others sold those still here will have to stand up and counted . But does give us incoming transfer and loan money . Think we bed more than Tins. 4

[Portland Bill]

In the interview I heard Tinman give, he stated that 3 were just about done deals. These 3 were players who have been playing below the Championship for a few years, and players that haven’t been given the chance ( yet)  to play at a higher level.

[firstdivision]

4 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

As I see it.
It was as much us running DaSilvas contract down as him, as far as I know there has been no offer. Plus we have 2 left backs at the Club and now one is filling in at CB = no option.
HNM was offered a contract some time ago and is clearly not interested in signing. We had King, James, Williams, Naismith ,Scott, Kadji, OTC even Sykes. Playing Massengo , knowing he wouldn't be here next year could be seen as short termism, even blocking the pathway for the young lads that would be here next year. When the window closed we had most of those available. 

It's only now, now that we've lost Williams, Naismith, Kadji (loan) , James (potentially ) that we look thin on the ground.
IMO it made sense to send him on loan and save a few quid.

Doesn’t that smack of double standards. We’re allowed to run down a player’s contract but woe betide him if he runs it down. 
Don’t see how he would be blocking a young player’s pathway when we play 34yo Andy King instead of a young player. James was injured last night but we still didn’t bring on a young lad.

[BUTOR]

10 hours ago, sinenomine said:

Who are the next players coming through the academy and are any of them likely to be able to fill some sort of role in the squad?

Few expected Scott to have the prolonged impact he has had, Bell wasn't seen as ready to step up, for a while neither was Conway. Most of the 'tips' from the academy over the years have ended up in the builders leagues. In all likelihood the next starlet, and the one after that, will come largely out of nowhere. You've no idea if a player is ready until they get their chance!

[spudski]

4 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

I think they will, but I'm a cup brimming over the edges kinda guy... 

I think we will continue to improve over a period of time. I think the process is there now to make us functional and hard to beat, I think there's a project underway with Cornick that I am refusing to pass judgement on until midway through next season. I think we have a plan and will recruit to that plan. Its exciting after years of scattergun awfulness.

I'm excited to see where this young team can get to and the inevitable bumps in the road ahead will not diminish that excitement 

It'll be interesting to see how Cornick develops and what plans we have for him. 

4 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

I've pontificated about this before as well.

Since the Lord God Our Saviour Mark Ashton left BCFC, we've had less than thruppence ha'penny to spend on players.

In the past 2 years we've seen a radical trimming of the squad, with useful additions to create a competitive outcome. This summer is the first summer that we will see us able to spend some money, and it won't be a lot and the market has shifted at our level - so a £3million pound player 3 years ago is much lower today.

I would expect 6-8 incoming this summer, assuming that the OOC players don't sign new deals. If they do, the incoming decreases accordingly. And I would also expect no "keynote" signings.

On the older players I would like to think that we're being led by the sports science. Some players can easily play at the top level to age 35 and above. Others can't. It's player specific. And these guys have so much to teach the incoming new players and our academy youngsters.

I'm expecting 23/24 to be one of gaining momentum. And if we do that then 24/25 we could make inroads to the play offs.

The question is, do we want to be in the Premier league, getting beat every week, like Everton?

I agree with what you say to a degree. 

However, we have struggled this year and need to kick on. To positively develop. You can only keep going for so long in this league at a level required to be successful. Regardless of experience, you still need legs. It only takes you so far. 

As for your last paragraph. 

It's a catch 22. The club want it. The players and manager want it. 

 

[Davefevs]

This is what Tins said:

 

[bpexile]

12 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

With Pring in place , one for the future would make sense, time to grow with the team.

Agreed but I'm now wondering if offers may come in for Pring after his performances this season, I guess only time will tell

[Rob k]

8 hours ago, firstdivision said:

Doesn’t that smack of double standards. We’re allowed to run down a player’s contract but woe betide him if he runs it down. 
Don’t see how he would be blocking a young player’s pathway when we play 34yo Andy King instead of a young player. James was injured last night but we still didn’t bring on a young lad.

Massengo played 99 times for us, by all accounts he didn’t play 100 as wouldnt sign a contract and that next game would have triggered something in his existing contract (probably a bonus or extra wages). That’s why he’s not played for us. (By all accounts anyway)