Next Season....Recruitment etc

[spudski]

The recent 'Problems up front' thread got me thinking last night. As some valid points were made regarding players. 

With the recent departure of Semenyo, the long term injuries to Kalas and Williams and age catching up with some prominent essential players, I thought the subject deserved a thread of it's own. 

Tinman has alluded to bringing in possibly 4 players next season. 

Is this enough?

We are likely to sell Scott for decent money. 

Kalas (30 next season) injury prone likely to not get a renewed contract, but can't be relied on for a full season. 

Williams...again...injury prone. We can't rely on him being a regular.

King will be 35 next season. Age catches up just like it did with Klose.

Naismith had a bad injury, will be 32 next season.

James...been fantastic this season, but again, will be 32 next season. Age catches up. 

Weimann will be 32, hasn't been great this season. On a downward slope?

Wells will be 33. He's been good, but again...legs don't last.

Massengo will be gone, doubts over DaSilva, maybe interest in the likes of Pring. 

That's 11 players with question marks. 

Take those away...and it leaves us with this.

GK 

Haikin 27, O'Leary 26

DF 

Atkinson (long term injury) 24

Vyner 25

Wilson 22

Tanner 23

MF 

Benarous (long term injury) 19

Sykes 25

Mehmeti 22

Forwards 

Conway ( long term injury ) 20

Cornick 27

Bell 20

So in short. We have age catching up with some influential players. Injury prone players who are deemed first team starts we can't rely on. Our best players leaving/ just left. Players coming back from injury, and new recruits who are showing how long it takes to gell. 

I can't see anyone in our current academy that can come in and start on a regular basis and be good enough to make an impact that would make us a solid Championship side. 

So we can't rely on that?

Whilst our younger players will have another season under their belts and positively developing ( Tanner, Sykes eg) our experienced players have imo, reached their peak, and will be on a downward slope. Age just catches up. Even more so when playing with such high intensity we are aiming to play. 

It's been said we will be looking to recruit, young hungry players from League 1 with games under their belt. 

What about replacing our experienced players. James has been a rock. But next season? 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ziderarmy]

I think Pearson has done a fantastic job with trimming the squad and moving on a lot of expensive dead wood.

He’s pretty much fixed the Ashton and Johnson mess I’m he inherited.

He’s spent next to nothing, less then a Kasey Palmer in total I’d imagine.

The majority of hos recruitment has been sound (permanent signings wise). it looks like we could need 8 to 10 players to me. I hope he’ll continue to bring younger players in from the English lower leagues so they don’t expect stupid money etc and allows us to hopefully have some sale on value.

We need a blend of youth and experience so players like Vyner, Pring, King and James need to step up and carry out that role which some have already been doing.

I think we need

GK

2 CBs 

LB

2 Midfielders

2 forwards

Not sure if we have any in the youth set up who could step up. Hope we keep hold of Conway and Bell which I expect us two. Scott will surely go 

[Port Said Red]

19 minutes ago, spudski said:

The recent 'Problems up front' thread got me thinking last night. As some valid points were made regarding players. 

With the recent departure of Semenyo, the long term injuries to Kalas and Williams and age catching up with some prominent essential players, I thought the subject deserved a thread of it's own. 

Tinman has alluded to bringing in possibly 4 players next season. 

Is this enough?

We are likely to sell Scott for decent money. 

Kalas (30 next season) injury prone likely to not get a renewed contract, but can't be relied on for a full season. 

Williams...again...injury prone. We can't rely on him being a regular.

King will be 35 next season. Age catches up just like it did with Klose.

Naismith had a bad injury, will be 32 next season.

James...been fantastic this season, but again, will be 32 next season. Age catches up. 

Weimann will be 32, hasn't been great this season. On a downward slope?

Wells will be 33. He's been good, but again...legs don't last.

Massengo will be gone, doubts over DaSilva, maybe interest in the likes of Pring. 

That's 11 players with question marks. 

Take those away...and it leaves us with this.

GK 

Haikin 27, O'Leary 26

DF 

Atkinson (long term injury) 24

Vyner 25

Wilson 22

Tanner 23

MF 

Benarous (long term injury) 19

Sykes 25

Mehmeti 22

Forwards 

Conway ( long term injury ) 20

Cornick 27

Bell 20

So in short. We have age catching up with some influential players. Injury prone players who are deemed first team starts we can't rely on. Our best players leaving/ just left. Players coming back from injury, and new recruits who are showing how long it takes to gell. 

I can't see anyone in our current academy that can come in and start on a regular basis and be good enough to make an impact that would make us a solid Championship side. 

So we can't rely on that?

Whilst our younger players will have another season under their belts and positively developing ( Tanner, Sykes eg) our experienced players have imo, reached their peak, and will be on a downward slope. Age just catches up. Even more so when playing with such high intensity we are aiming to play. 

It's been said we will be looking to recruit, young hungry players from League 1 with games under their belt. 

What about replacing our experienced players. James has been a rock. But next season? 

Thoughts?

I think this is already been discussed in the Transfer Forum. 

I think the main issue is getting a balance between strengthening the squad and maintaining a meaningful pathway for the talent coming through the Academy.

[And Its Smith]

The squad is ‘age unbalanced’ for sure. Lots of young players and lots of players over 30.  I think the 4-5 players we sign will be 24-27 years old though which will give the squad on overall better balance.  I think 4 players is enough really. You can’t just sign 6-7 players realistically.  It’s too much change.  Next year is not THE year to go for the play offs. It’s more of another progress year and then the big play off hope will be the season after. 

[Davefevs]

My gut feel was the 3-4 Tins mentioned was “3-4 ready to get done as soon as the season ends”.  O’Brien and Currie may be two of those 3-4.

I expect the profile to still be young players.  But in the likelihood that several OOC players leave, we will need more than 3-4.

@And Its Smithhow we manage the mid-age range recruitment will be interesting…because I don’t think we will want to pay much of a fee for them (even with Scott money), and the good OOC players will potentially have bigger suitors.  The reason we got Naismith on a free was because he was approaching 30 and we gave him decent wages and a 3 year deal…better than other clubs.  Trying to do the same in the 24-27 range is gonna be the norm, and competition will be tougher.

An interesting summer ahead.

[GrahamC]

As Dave said, I don’t think it will be 4, more likely we know we already need 3 or 4 on top of what we currently have.

Scott will almost certainly go, so that’s one more straight away.

Then decisions on the likes of Kalas & Haikin, if they both go, at least one more, depending on Bajic.

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My gut feel was the 3-4 Tins mentioned was “3-4 ready to get done as soon as the season ends”.  O’Brien and Currie may be two of those 3-4.

I expect the profile to still be young players.  But in the likelihood that several OOC players leave, we will need more than 3-4.

@And Its Smithhow we manage the mid-age range recruitment will be interesting…because I don’t think we will want to pay much of a fee for them (even with Scott money), and the good OOC players will potentially have bigger suitors.  The reason we got Naismith on a free was because he was approaching 30 and we gave him decent wages and a 3 year deal…better than other clubs.  Trying to do the same in the 24-27 range is gonna be the norm, and competition will be tougher.

An interesting summer ahead.

It certainly will be interesting but I for one have complete faith in the combination of Nige and Tinnion who  have already got certain players lined up.

Nige and his coaching team have the ability to improve players - look how much Sykes and Tanner have stepped up in a relatively short time both of whom recruited from lower leagues. Had Wilson not got injured I’m confident he’d have stepped up in  a similar fashion.

Another thing to remember is that Nige has been in the industry for all of his adult life and has vast experience as a player and manager and will have deep knowledge of what he’s looking for in a player.

Add to that our new CEO who has also in the game for decades and his contacts will be another essential ingredient.

We all know that City need to strengthen and the obvious positions are GK, CB MD and forwards.

[Rossineri]

In short we need a new spine. CB, CM and CF. 

[Son of Fred]

34 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Next year is not THE year to go for the play offs. It’s more of another progress year and then the big play off hope will be the season after. 

Absolutely right Smith - and perfectly timed for my retirement

[Fpcity]

Could Pring end up playing CB more next season if we bring in Currie? He played well there last albeit against a poor team. 

That's one CB position covered and the an academy lad as LB back up? 

[Bat Fastard]

Looking at the team last night it was clear that we need to recruit a few 6ft plus players because we are currently a team of small players.  Without a tall CH and a tall CF, we stand to take a battering from some of the more direct teams in our league.  

[Simon bristol]

57 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

The squad is ‘age unbalanced’ for sure. Lots of young players and lots of players over 30.  I think the 4-5 players we sign will be 24-27 years old though which will give the squad on overall better balance.  I think 4 players is enough really. You can’t just sign 6-7 players realistically.  It’s too much change.  Next year is not THE year to go for the play offs. It’s more of another progress year and then the big play off hope will be the season after. 

I dont really think we have much choice in it, the chances of us reaching championship playoffs are practically zero regardless of how we would like to time it, selling semenyo and scott this year isn’t exactly going to help with that

[GrahamC]

17 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

Could Pring end up playing CB more next season if we bring in Currie? He played well there last albeit against a poor team. 

That's one CB position covered and the an academy lad as LB back up? 

Can’t see it.

Atkinson, Vyner, Kalas (or a replacement), bring in another CB & Naismith as a possibility, all before Pring, who with Dasilva off is virtually certain to start as our first choice LB.

[mozo]

I think if OBrien and Currie come in the defence is pretty much there with 2 for each position.

In midfield, I'd like to see a player like Tiehi of Wigan to do the defensive side. Then a replacement for Scott.

If there is a powerful goalscorer out there then please sign them!

So that's 5 signings plus maybe a goalie.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think if OBrien and Currie come in the defence is pretty much there with 2 for each position.

In midfield, I'd like to see a player like Tiehi of Wigan to do the defensive side. Then a replacement for Scott.

If there is a powerful goalscorer out there then please sign them!

So that's 5 signings plus maybe a goalie.

Still need a CB.  Atkinson won’t be about until Nov / Dec (???).

[spudski]

52 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I think this is already been discussed in the Transfer Forum. 

I think the main issue is getting a balance between strengthening the squad and maintaining a meaningful pathway for the talent coming through the Academy.

Yes, I've partook of that thread, sadly as it's in a sub forum it often gets over looked.

I agree with getting the balance right, and maintaining a pathway. 

My biggest concern is, imo, we aren't likely to replace with the same capability and quality Semenyo and Scott. Both are awesome players. 

And Kalas, James, Weimann, King and Wells...our most experienced quality players, are either injury prone or coming/have come to the end of their careers, or are on a downward slide, incapable of playing high intensity football, to a standard that can make us a top 10 team every week. 

It's great having a pathway, and our academy has produced some stunning talent. However...my biggest concern is replacing the aging players. 

I look at this season...with the experience of James, Wells, Weimann, Naismith,  King and Kalas...and the talents of Semenyo and Scott...we've struggled. Yes injury has played a part.

However...Cornick and Mehmeti are not in the same class as both Semenyo and Scott, and the aforementioned players are all a year older, injury prone, on a downward slide. 

We look a lot weaker next season if we continue with our aging experienced players and loss of star players. 

Replacing them with hungry league 1 players doesn't give us that experience needed. 

The balance of youth and experienced quality players is being stretched imo. 

[cidered abroad]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Still need a CB.  Atkinson won’t be about until Nov / Dec (???).

Clear that Idehen doesn't figure? Left Centre back played for U21 yesterday instead of on the bench at Huddersfield?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, cidered abroad said:

Clear that Idehen doesn't figure? Left Centre back played for U21 yesterday instead of on the bench at Huddersfield?

Not as it stands.  But Nige allows redemption!

[mozo]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Still need a CB.  Atkinson won’t be about until Nov / Dec (???).

I didn't realise it would be that long.

Pring is an option if we want a short term solution. Otherwise, bring another nugget from L1 or L2.

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Clear that Idehen doesn't figure? Left Centre back played for U21 yesterday instead of on the bench at Huddersfield?

 

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not as it stands.  But Nige allows redemption!

No way good enough for Championship standard football imo. 

Behind Low...who imo would be a last resort and needs another season out on loan. 

And both wayyyyy behind Towler who's having a blinder at Pompey. 

[Selred]

No goals from outside the box this season. Need a midfielder to come in and change that.

Brownhill 2.0.

[SE23Red]

22 minutes ago, spudski said:

We look a lot weaker next season if we continue with our aging experienced players and loss of star players. 

Replacing them with hungry league 1 players doesn't give us that experience needed. 

The balance of youth and experienced quality players is being stretched imo. 

I agree. A lot of people have focussed on the 3-4 players quote from Tins but I was far more interested in the young, hungry 200 appearances ‘profile’ he identified. At best I think it’s unwise for us as a club to narrow the market down in this way. Shouldn’t it be as simple as who is the best player we can recruit for the positions we need to improve?

If I’m looking at player of the season candidates this season they have mostly come from the academy, but the two that haven’t are Wells and James. Atkinson is probably the pick of those recruited from lower leagues but wouldn’t be in my top 5.

I hope the recruitment team play a blinder and identify players who can come in at the top of the team from the lower leagues. But my fear is I’ve heard this plan before. In 2018 Ipswich appointed Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury with the plan of using his knowledge of the best of League 1 to build a new, younger, hungrier Championship team. He didn’t last until Christmas and Ipswich finished 24th.

 

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

The recent 'Problems up front' thread got me thinking last night. As some valid points were made regarding players. 

With the recent departure of Semenyo, the long term injuries to Kalas and Williams and age catching up with some prominent essential players, I thought the subject deserved a thread of it's own. 

Tinman has alluded to bringing in possibly 4 players next season. 

Is this enough?

We are likely to sell Scott for decent money. 

Kalas (30 next season) injury prone likely to not get a renewed contract, but can't be relied on for a full season. 

Williams...again...injury prone. We can't rely on him being a regular.

King will be 35 next season. Age catches up just like it did with Klose.

Naismith had a bad injury, will be 32 next season.

James...been fantastic this season, but again, will be 32 next season. Age catches up. 

Weimann will be 32, hasn't been great this season. On a downward slope?

Wells will be 33. He's been good, but again...legs don't last.

Massengo will be gone, doubts over DaSilva, maybe interest in the likes of Pring. 

That's 11 players with question marks. 

Take those away...and it leaves us with this.

GK 

Haikin 27, O'Leary 26

DF 

Atkinson (long term injury) 24

Vyner 25

Wilson 22

Tanner 23

MF 

Benarous (long term injury) 19

Sykes 25

Mehmeti 22

Forwards 

Conway ( long term injury ) 20

Cornick 27

Bell 20

So in short. We have age catching up with some influential players. Injury prone players who are deemed first team starts we can't rely on. Our best players leaving/ just left. Players coming back from injury, and new recruits who are showing how long it takes to gell. 

I can't see anyone in our current academy that can come in and start on a regular basis and be good enough to make an impact that would make us a solid Championship side. 

So we can't rely on that?

Whilst our younger players will have another season under their belts and positively developing ( Tanner, Sykes eg) our experienced players have imo, reached their peak, and will be on a downward slope. Age just catches up. Even more so when playing with such high intensity we are aiming to play. 

It's been said we will be looking to recruit, young hungry players from League 1 with games under their belt. 

What about replacing our experienced players. James has been a rock. But next season? 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of this. It might be that sitting at pitch level or that bloody robin mask is affecting my view but the scores given for last night’s mediocre performance worry me.

That and some posters view that we can trust in the Academy, Nige or Tinnion to improve things.

I guess it depends now improvement is measured. Is it enough to finish a few places higher each season? Whilst overall performance isn’t really upto it?

Improvements against whom? Cardiff was dour. Huddersfield was dour. Both are teams that - if we’re seeing genuine and sustainable improvements - we ought to be beating easily.

Nige may well have had to - and probably has - sorted out years of mess and underachieving. He might well have to contend with injuries. Christ alive. He might even have to manage dubious refereeing decisions - definite penalty to Colin’s terriers last night.

Thing is we’re Bristol City. We delight in up and down performances with an occasional evening of joy against a PL team with world beaters.

And as long as we rate performances like those seen last night and in Cardiff as being “progress” or “ok” then that’s the best we’ll ever get.

Thing is there is now no real or obvious answer. We’ve been kidding ourselves for far too many years now kiddos.

This is it. The best we’ll ever get. At least in my lifetime.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, SE23Red said:

I agree. A lot of people have focussed on the 3-4 players quote from Tins but I was far more interested in the young, hungry 200 appearances ‘profile’ he identified. At best I think it’s unwise for us as a club to narrow the market down in this way. Shouldn’t it be as simple as who is the best player we can recruit for the positions we need to improve?

If I’m looking at player of the season candidates this season they have mostly come from the academy, but the two that haven’t are Wells and James. Atkinson is probably the pick of those recruited from lower leagues but wouldn’t be in my top 5.

I hope the recruitment team play a blinder and identify players who can come in at the top of the team from the lower leagues. But my fear is I’ve heard this plan before. In 2018 Ipswich appointed Paul Hurst from Shrewsbury with the plan of using his knowledge of the best of League 1 to build a new, younger, hungrier Championship team. He didn’t last until Christmas and Ipswich finished 24th.

 

Yes I agree. 

Bell and Conway have been fantastic.

Scott and Semenyo star Premiership level stars. Both not here next season.

We are very very unlikely to replace with that star quality. 

Any players like you say, that come from League 1 with the identified profile, won't have any of the vast experience and quality from Prem/ international level of Kalas, Naismith, Weimann, James, King and Wells...who like I've pointed out are all on the downward slide...either injury prone, age related. Basically past their best. 

If we keep some of those experienced players, the chances of them playing to a better standard than this season or even equal too, is very remote. Odd game maybe, but not sustained over a season. 

What we are left with in the majority are academy players and youngsters with no more higher experience than the level they've played at already. 

So aging experienced players on a downslide mixed with players that are academy products, and players that have no more experience than league 1 level or mid Championship level. 

To me...that's a concern. 

On paper...and we know games aren't played on paper...we will look far weaker than this season. A season in which we've struggled. 

For me...we need the equivalent of a Kalas, James and Wells, but younger,  added to the spine of the squad to give that leadership and experience that will be needed. 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Pring, Naismith, James, Weimann will also still be here albeit 3 of these are 30 plus of course.

Think we need a squad of maybe 24-25- to mitigate against the inevitable injures for one.

Kalas ability and experience wise I'd keep, injures are the issue there.

Did I read Atkinson out until November/December?? That is a major blow, 2 CBs minimum this summer IMO.

One LB if DaSilva goes- anything between 0 and 2 GKs depending on Hakin and Bajic.

If Scott goes we probably need one CM monimum- two if we consider that Massengo has gone and surely King won't be extended again.

One more striker? Maybe but not essential- versatility will also come in handy ie Naismith, Sykes, Weimann can all play some roles.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[GrahamC]

39 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes I agree. 

Bell and Conway have been fantastic.

Scott and Semenyo star Premiership level stars. Both not here next season.

We are very very unlikely to replace with that star quality. 

Any players like you say, that come from League 1 with the identified profile, won't have any of the vast experience and quality from Prem/ international level of Kalas, Naismith, Weimann, James, King and Wells...who like I've pointed out are all on the downward slide...either injury prone, age related. Basically past their best. 

If we keep some of those experienced players, the chances of them playing to a better standard than this season or even equal too, is very remote. Odd game maybe, but not sustained over a season. 

What we are left with in the majority are academy players and youngsters with no more higher experience than the level they've played at already. 

So aging experienced players on a downslide mixed with players that are academy products, and players that have no more experience than league 1 level or mid Championship level. 

To me...that's a concern. 

On paper...and we know games aren't played on paper...we will look far weaker than this season. A season in which we've struggled. 

For me...we need the equivalent of a Kalas, James and Wells, but younger,  added to the spine of the squad to give that leadership and experience that will be needed. 

 

 

Would accept all of this bar James, think he’s perfectly capable of replicating this season. Naismith & Weimann will still have key roles too, Wells might morph into a squad player, Kalas potentially not here.

James is basically a 35 game a season player though, so that needs to be taken into account.

Pearson inherited a terrible blend of over 30s & untried youngsters, part of next season’s solution are O’Leary, Vyner, Atkinson, Sykes & Pring, all in their mid 20s & with decent experience of this level now.

We are expecting at least a couple of them to move into more senior roles in the squad.

The funds released by losing Kalas, Dasilva, Massengo, Baker (who is still on the payroll), Moore & a few others, like Owura Edwards allied to the Semenyo fee & probable Scott one gives us scope to reshape the squad to a greater extent than before.

Edited March 8, 2023 by GrahamC

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

another nugget from L1 or L2.

So long as he doesn’t chicken out of tackles. 

[The Fat Controller]

Who are the next players coming through the academy and are any of them likely to be able to fill some sort of role in the squad?

[James54De]

4 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

Who are the next players coming through the academy and are any of them likely to be able to fill some sort of role in the squad?

OTC, I expect, will play a roll as we see out this season. How he does could dictate how many midfielders we go for in the summer. 

[BCFCGav]

Best case scenario is the Newcastle rumours are true and they give us 25 million and Alex back on loan for another year. That way we keep Alex and have lots to spend on recruitment. A few loans too and we’re back up to a squad.

Of the 11 players with question marks, all 11 aren’t going to be gone or past it in 6 months time. I understand it’s a worst case scenario analysis but Weimann, Wells, James will all have more to give. Williams injury record is improving. I don’t think Cam will leave.