Next Season....Recruitment etc

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I think what we've seen in the last few games is the mental and physical toll of Championship football taking it's toll on a number of the younger players, and older ones (King for example) who are either in their first full season at this level, or played more games than before.

There's quite a few contract decisions to also be made around players that are in the last year of their current contracts. Weimann, Williams, James, Pring, Atkinson (option years on those last two of course), are just some of the players that are OOC. Jury is out for me on new contracts for Weimann and Williams. William's availability has obviously been better this year, but are we looking for better? Weimann seems to be on  somewhat downward trajectory after last season's heroics. The summer may be the last time we can achieve any fees for either of them. Not sure we would want to give Matty James a new 3 year contract to be fair, maybe 2 at best ( would be 34 by then).

Whilst not wanting to block the pathways of the academy players (where would we be without them this season), we certainly need 4-5 seasoned pro's that are going to take the whole squad forward. It really it about quality rather than quantity for me. I'm not sure some player who's played 200 games in L1 or below ( ie will be around mid twenties, and for some reason has not already been picked up by PL/Champ teams) will be the type of player to improve the squad as a whole.

There are players out there for around the £2m mark still ( Morris at Luton, and Flemming at Millwall being 2 good examples). You don't have to pay massive money to get a differential player, but our recruitment as a whole needs to be a hell of a lot better than the last time we had some money to spend.

I certainly wouldn’t be fretting about anyone who is out of contract in 2024, as the whole power balance has altered. We can decide if they’re going to be worth another deal during next season. Likewise can’t see anyone paying a fee for Weimann or Williams these days.

The last time we had money to spend was Rob Atkinson, wasn’t it? Think that went ok..

There is an opportunity to reshape more this summer than last, simply because we are coming to the end of far more contracts & the last of the high earners.

 I’m fascinated to see what type of signings we make, Tinnion is hinting at lower league players, Pearson seemed to say we need some with Championship experience, going to be hard to do both of those things.

Edited March 20, 2023 by GrahamC

[AG City]

I’ve said it before but there is an OOC Lucas Joao down the road at Reading who has a record of 40 goals/104 appearances who at 6ft 4 would make a great addition with loads of champ experience.

Plus Ojaria at Reading who has lost his way a bit and available who has always looked decent against us. 

[Philly The Kid]

Telling to me that we haven't activated the additional year on Zak's contract.
Improved though he has been this year, and is a candidate for player of the season, He still makes me think there's always a mistake around the corner that will cost us. Probably a bit unfair but that's my view. I think for the right money he's a squad player at best but probably won't accept that as he could be a regular in a lower half championship team (like us!!!). So I think if he stays it'll be on reduced terms but I suspect he's survived so long because he's reasonably reliable (with limitations), our other injury issues and the lack of ready replacements coming through. I personally think NP doesn't really fancy him and would replace him in a heart beat if someone was available for the right price.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

@Davefevs just read this & couple of things;

Watched a bit of Werder Bremen on Sky at the weekend Buchanan played the last 30 & did one absolutely brilliant goal saving tackle.

Secondly re LBs, very unusually I listened to Radio Bristol yesterday & Gary Owers was repeatedly making the point as to how impressed he was with Ryan Manning whose OoC this summer, 26 & definitely a feisty sort. I know we’ve discussed he’s a bit of a mercenary but good player.

As you know I have conscious bias on Manning, he’s halfway to being a similar p r I c k as Cunningham, so I can’t bring myself to suggest him as an option.  He is a good player, and ordinarily he’d feature in my thoughts.  But I also don’t think we get someone like him and then say, you’re fighting it out with Cam Pring…not on the wages he’d expect either.

4 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

@Davefevs what do you feel about the side in the RB position at present as a whole?

Tanner seems to be our only real RB, but has probably reached his limit for the season. Otherwise Wilson is a wing back really, Sykes a wide midfielder (who can't cross for toffee), and then we are into the kids, or at times Weimann. If we are to progress, then surely we need potentially more quality in that area, so we once again don't go so lopsided in an attacking sense.

What do you mean by the bit in bold?

Wilson played right back most of his career before his RWB season at FGR.

So, I don’t see RB as a priority at all.  Tanner will continue to grow imho.

I have no issues with playing lop-sided.

(Sykes has had a good season overall, he will improve his delivery too)

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

I certainly wouldn’t be fretting about anyone who is out of contract in 2024, as the whole power balance has altered. We can decide if they’re going to be worth another deal during next season. Likewise can’t see anyone paying a fee for Weimann or Williams these days.

The last time we had money to spend was Rob Atkinson, wasn’t it? Think that went ok..

There is an opportunity to reshape more this summer than last, simply because we are coming to the end of far more contracts & the last of the high earners.

 I’m fascinated to see what type of signings we make, Tinnion is hinting at lower league players, Pearson seemed to say we need some with Championship experience, going to be hard to do both of those things.

I think that’s why my earlier post suggested a two pronged approach.  I think Neil is kinda right with it’s unlikely to be someone who’s played 200 games and not got picked up, think Tins might not need to be taken quite as black and white as that.

I do see some business being done early, but not sure whether that will be the young up and coming players or more established players.

It would be much easier if Nige and Tins just told us who they are after!

[NcnsBcfc]

4 minutes ago, AG City said:

I’ve said it before but there is an OOC Lucas Joao down the road at Reading who has a record of 40 goals/104 appearances who at 6ft 4 would make a great addition with loads of champ experience.

Plus Ojaria at Reading who has lost his way a bit and available who has always looked decent against us. 

Whilst Joao is a quality player when fit, isn't he on ridiculous money at Reading? With going OOC, you can see him going overseas to maintain that kind of salary.

Ejaria is a strange one. Always looked quality (obviously bought from Liverpool), but had a bust up around the covid times, and unlike Wells( who never had a bust up, but of course had his own views on vaccination) never seemed to get back into the team afterwards. He's either been not in the squad or injured since 8th November, which doesn't exactly scream a progressive signing for me.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

Telling to me that we haven't activated the additional year on Zak's contract.
Improved though he has been this year, and is a candidate for player of the season, He still makes me think there's always a mistake around the corner that will cost us. Probably a bit unfair but that's my view. I think for the right money he's a squad player at best but probably won't accept that as he could be a regular in a lower half championship team (like us!!!). So I think if he stays it'll be on reduced terms but I suspect he's survived so long because he's reasonably reliable (with limitations), our other injury issues and the lack of ready replacements coming through. I personally think NP doesn't really fancy him and would replace him in a heart beat if someone was available for the right price.

I think the complete opposite.  The reason we’ve not exercised his option is 1) we don’t have to until May, but more likely (imho) is 2) he’s gonna be offered fresh terms / better terms.  He’ll be lowly paid compared to his peers I reckon, so will get a new deal to bring him up a bit in recognition of his improvement.

He also made him captain yesterday.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Davefevs

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

As you know I have conscious bias on Manning, he’s halfway to being a similar p r I c k as Cunningham, so I can’t bring myself to suggest him as an option.  He is a good player, and ordinarily he’d feature in my thoughts.  But I also don’t think we get someone like him and then say, you’re fighting it out with Cam Pring…not on the wages he’d expect either.

What do you mean by the bit in bold?

Wilson played right back most of his career before his RWB season at FGR.

So, I don’t see RB as a priority at all.  Tanner will continue to grow imho.

I have no issues with playing lop-sided.

(Sykes has had a good season overall, he will improve his delivery too)

I think that’s why my earlier post suggested a two pronged approach.  I think Neil is kinda right with it’s unlikely to be someone who’s played 200 games and not got picked up, think Tins might not need to be taken quite as black and white as that.

I do see some business being done early, but not sure whether that will be the young up and coming players or more established players.

It would be much easier if Nige and Tins just told us who they are after!

With the phrase "hit his limit for the season", I meant like a number of the young players their performance level has dropped off in the last few games. As NP said in his post match after Swansea, the physical and mental demands of the Championship are unrelenting, and take their toll.

I like Tanner, and fully support the new contract. But like NP said earlier on in the season, he needs to improve from an attacking perspective (I know RB should excel at defending first). He has said himself, that he is still learning his trade. If we were looking to improve the squad as a whole, do we think Wilson can be a second there? Feels like an area of the pitch where we could do with a bit more experience (I'm not talking about another Danny Simpson either )

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As you know I have conscious bias on Manning, he’s halfway to being a similar p r I c k as Cunningham, so I can’t bring myself to suggest him as an option.  He is a good player, and ordinarily he’d feature in my thoughts.  But I also don’t think we get someone like him and then say, you’re fighting it out with Cam Pring…not on the wages he’d expect either.

 

Fair enough but wouldn’t that equally apply to McCallum & Buchanan, too?

Making someone like the Wimbledon LB far more likely?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, NcnsBcfc said:

With the phrase "hit his limit for the season", I meant like a number of the young players their performance level has dropped off in the last few games. As NP said in his post match after Swansea, the physical and mental demands of the Championship are unrelenting, and take their toll.

I like Tanner, and fully support the new contract. But like NP said earlier on in the season, he needs to improve from an attacking perspective (I know RB should excel at defending first). He has said himself, that he is still learning his trade. If we were looking to improve the squad as a whole, do we think Wilson can be a second there? Feels like an area of the pitch where we could do with a bit more experience (I'm not talking about another Danny Simpson either )

If Kane plays anything like he did in the first few PSFs before doing his ankle against Exeter, then undoubtedly so.  To then suffer his knee injury (not sure the extent of it though) must’ve been gutting for him, especially having come on against Hull and looked very dangerous too.  Seems a long time ago now.

I know it’s one sprint yesterday, but eff me, he didn’t half travel with the ball.

We just have to watch and see how he does now, it’s almost like a new season for him.  I don’t worry about experience / lack of, there’s enough games around him.

If we can get better for little outlay then go for it, but not a priority for me.  But we shouldn’t get sentimental about players either.  Much as Zak deserves a new deal, if we find two CBs in the summer that are better, I’m more than happy for him to become more of a squad player.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Fair enough but wouldn’t that equally apply to McCallum & Buchanan, too?

Making someone like the Wimbledon LB far more likely?

Possibly, but they aren’t coming from a position of being first choice, so a bit different to Manning.  I think both would have plenty of suitors too.

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, AG City said:

I’ve said it before but there is an OOC Lucas Joao down the road at Reading who has a record of 40 goals/104 appearances who at 6ft 4 would make a great addition with loads of champ experience.

Plus Ojaria at Reading who has lost his way a bit and available who has always looked decent against us. 

Joao cost Reading a rumoured £6m, is on telephone numbers & injury prone, he’s only scored 5 this season in 13 starts.

A few years back I was a big fan, that ship has sailed now.

[DaveInSA]

I can’t really claim any knowledge about other players. In this or any other division. We do need to get some balance in the squad. And I think what that means is about 4 players incoming, all with championship experience. All at age 25-26.

If we can get this balance right, we could be there or thereabouts in 2 seasons time. 

[Davefevs]

Here’s my take on what next seasons squad could look like without too much fuss / outlay:

O’Leary / Bajic

Tanner / Wilson

Vyner / Atkinson / Andersen / O’Brien (OOC I think)

Pring / Jordan Williams

James / Joe Williams / Naismith / Benarous / Collins (OOC) / Khadra

Sykes / Weimann / Conway / Wells / Cornick / Mehmeti / Bell

obviously doubts over when Atkinson will be back, so if Naismith has to cover CB, then we need another CM, more so with Benarous too, hence the extra midfielder, making it 5 incoming.

Of course it won’t be anything like this, just shows how a squad could come together…and look stronger / more robust / better balanced.

Kalas, Dasilva, Moore, Massengo leave, plus Scott.  King undertaking more coaching.  Backed up by Taylor-Clarke, Thomas, Idehen, Araoye, Knight-Lebel, Thomas, Palmer-Houlden, etc.

 

[Cityboy1954]

3 hours ago, AG City said:

I’ve said it before but there is an OOC Lucas Joao down the road at Reading who has a record of 40 goals/104 appearances who at 6ft 4 would make a great addition with loads of champ experience.

Plus Ojaria at Reading who has lost his way a bit and available who has always looked decent against us. 

I like these players but be surprised if we moved for them as their wages are colossal.

[Cityboy1954]

On 08/03/2023 at 09:45, Robbored said:

It certainly will be interesting but I for one have complete faith in the combination of Nige and Tinnion who  have already got certain players lined up.

Nige and his coaching team have the ability to improve players - look how much Sykes and Tanner have stepped up in a relatively short time both of whom recruited from lower leagues. Had Wilson not got injured I’m confident he’d have stepped up in  a similar fashion.

Another thing to remember is that Nige has been in the industry for all of his adult life and has vast experience as a player and manager and will have deep knowledge of what he’s looking for in a player.

Add to that our new CEO who has also in the game for decades and his contacts will be another essential ingredient.

We all know that City need to strengthen and the obvious positions are GK, CB MD and forwards.

Yes definately a bully type centre forward to take the weight off conway and Bell.

[PHILINFRANCE]

On 09/03/2023 at 22:28, Davefevs said:

If I was thinking of a bit of a punt (not necessarily in terms of fee mind you!) from Lg1 as a physical striker, I’d take a look at Colby Bishop at Portsmouth.  Wish he was 22/23, not 26, but I think he could get goals at our level.  Think he’d cost a bit more than we’d want to pay.

Especially as he scored twice on Saturday .

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Here’s my take on what next seasons squad could look like without too much fuss / outlay:

O’Leary / Bajic

Tanner / Wilson

Vyner / Atkinson / Andersen / O’Brien (OOC I think)

Pring / Jordan Williams

James / Joe Williams / Naismith / Benarous / Collins (OOC) / Khadra

Sykes / Weimann / Conway / Wells / Cornick / Mehmeti / Bell

obviously doubts over when Atkinson will be back, so if Naismith has to cover CB, then we need another CM, more so with Benarous too, hence the extra midfielder, making it 5 incoming.

Of course it won’t be anything like this, just shows how a squad could come together…and look stronger / more robust / better balanced.

Kalas, Dasilva, Moore, Massengo leave, plus Scott.  King undertaking more coaching.  Backed up by Taylor-Clarke, Thomas, Idehen, Araoye, Knight-Lebel, Thomas, Palmer-Houlden, etc.

 

Have you given up on Wimbledon's Jack Currie?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Have you given up on Wimbledon's Jack Currie?

No, but I think there are better players available / possibly better value for money too, judging by the fact that Wimbledon don’t seem to have to sell following the sale of Assal for £1m.

Similar thoughts on O’Brien too.  With Wigan in the shit financially, someone like Whatmough might represent good value.

It’s all a bit of a game at this point.  No idea which players might go OOC, which players might have options exercised or sign new deals…all of which completely change the picture.

[PHILINFRANCE]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, but I think there are better players available / possibly better value for money too, judging by the fact that Wimbledon don’t seem to have to sell following the sale of Assal for £1m.

Similar thoughts on O’Brien too.  With Wigan in the shit financially, someone like Whatmough might represent good value.

It’s all a bit of a game at this point.  No idea which players might go OOC, which players might have options exercised or sign new deals…all of which completely change the picture.

Oh, I agree with you there.

We are still in March and the season doesn't even finish until VE Day, the King Charles III Coronation Public Bank Holiday on 8 May. 

As you say, Wigan have financial problems and will most likely be relegated;  Huddersfield, whilst they may yet escape relegation (Good Old Neil) also appear to have financial problems; there will be several players on many posters' lists whose contracts are extended, added to which random players whose contracts are surprisingly (to us) not extended.

Reading and QPR must also be ripe for picking.

All good fun, though.

[Major Isewater]

19 hours ago, spudski said:

can't help but wonder how we will ever get to being a team that challenges for Promotion under this plan

Brentford did it very successfully. Luton, Millwall as well to name but three. It’s about progression, recruitment and a bit of luck. 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Brentford did it very successfully. Luton, Millwall as well to name but three. It’s about progression, recruitment and a bit of luck. 

Spot on…building over time.  I think there are some that think we are ready to be Millwall and Luton next season.  We might well be, but as you say would take a brilliant summer window and for it all to click.  We are probably 2-3 seasons behind them.  We have also seen Barnsley and Huddersfield go from playoffs to relegation / relegation threat in one season, so we have to build with a bit of longevity in mind.

We can of course hold Nige to his (paraphrased) - it’s gonna take 3 seasons to get us into a position to challenge for promotion.

Is that during season 3 (23/24) or ready for season 4 (24/25)?  He has said it’s been tougher than he expected.

He certainly didn’t say promotion in 3 years, just have a squad capable of challenging.

It’s been two seasons clearing up the mess.  Next season is really year 1 in my mind.  Others see it differently.  That’s fine. This summer feels a bit like the summer of 2017…a couple of years mixing it around the bottom 8, ready to kick on. 

[1960maaan]

First of all, what have we got and what have we missed ?

I think the recruitment has been promising, not without it's blips but promising. 
Defence;
Tanner , done OK IMO. First season in the Championship he has done quite well.
Wilson , still an unknown , has not played enough to judge but looks a quick and willing runner. Like a new signing next year.
Naismith , big miss from two positions, very important player.
Atkinson , one of Nige's first signings. Has grown over his time and is a big miss ATM.

Just to make a point about what we are missing defensively ATM.

Sykes and James were the Midfield signings  ( I wont count King as it felt short term and I doubt he will be renewed ), Both have been very good this year. James has shown real class and Sykes will be better for this season.

The strikers are interesting as I think we go with what we have. Mehmetti looks a handful and will be better as he gets used to the team, already becoming a favourite. Cornick still dividing opinion , but we should be able to see what we have after the International break.

I think there is reason to be optimistic over recruitment now, a real focus and understanding through the Club. Targets have been decided on and signed with little fuss, if we can do the same in the summer , with or without Scott , I believe there is reason to think we could have a successful year. Whether that would mean Playoffs would depend on just how good the Summer goes, but in the words of Ian Dury ..... Reasons to be cheerful .

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It’s been two seasons clearing up the mess.  Next season is really year 1 in my mind.  Others see it differently.  That’s fine. This summer feels a bit like the summer of 2017…a couple of years mixing it around the bottom 8, ready to kick on.

IMO, this is his first real window of progression. So many other things going on previously, I think he's done well so far, but this window it feels more like we are in control. We still have Kalas & DaSilva to make decisions on (personally I think they will go) , but the start of the season will feel like Nige's side for the first time. 

It's going to be a long summer , if we haven't been linked with 30 players by June 1st I'll be surprised.