Davefevs Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 9 minutes ago, chinapig said: On a side note, Premier League clubs have voted by 12 to 6 with 2 absentions to tighten the rules on associated party transactions (sponsorships and transfers). One club is rumoured to be threatening legal action. You guessed it, it's Man City. How many guesses, un, deux, Troyes??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fpcity Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 14 minutes ago, chinapig said: On a side note, Premier League clubs have voted by 12 to 6 with 2 absentions to tighten the rules on associated party transactions (sponsorships and transfers). One club is rumoured to be threatening legal action. You guessed it, it's Man City. Would love it if they got relegated down the leagues like what happened to Rangers. But they'll just get a fine no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 (edited) Dr. Rob Wilson, a Football Finance expert reckons the following on the Everton case: *On Appeal, the deduction will be halved. *They (Everton) are very bullish about their 2023 Charge. *Nottingham Forest altogether different, much will hinge on Johnson sale timing. *PL need more clearly defined Sanctioning Parameters in general for FFP breaches. Point 1 refers on some level to the PL not wanting to make a rod for their own back with future cases according to him but that seems weak as anything if so. A reduction to 5 would still mean Burnley were wronged however as they finished 4 points behind Everton. Edited February 12 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 Last season, without going Chapter and Verse..if the 2 clubs found guilty then... If we factor in GD... *A deduction of 2 points or more would relegate Everton and keep Leicester up...subject to the Nottingham Forest deduction of course. *A deduction of 7 points or more would de facto relegate Nottingham Forest. (Them v Leeds would come down to Goals Scored as the next level of tie breaker). If we forget GD, never mind Goals Scored: *A deduction of 3 points or more would put Leicester above Everton. *A deduction of 5 points would move Leicester above Nottingham Forest. *A deduction of 6 points would put Everton below Leicester and Leeds- de facto relegating them. *A deduction of 8 points would de facto relegate Nottingham Forest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Dr. Rob Wilson, a Football Finance expert reckons the following on the Everton case: *On Appeal, the deduction will be halved. *They (Everton) are very bullish about their 2023 Charge. *Nottingham Forest altogether different, much will hinge on Johnson sale timing. *PL need more clearly defined Sanctioning Parameters in general for FFP breaches. Point 1 refers on some level to the PL not wanting to make a rod for their own back with future cases according to him but that seems weak as anything if so. A reduction to 5 would still mean Burnley were wronged however as they finished 4 points behind Everton. Point 1 misses the fact that the independent commission makes the decision not the PL. We're used to fans not getting this but you'd think Dr Wilson would. Point 4 ignores the fact that the PL Board proposed such parameters but the clubs voted against, including Everton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) Evertonian- dunno what to say really.. Will take many years to get it to court no? Edited February 19 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) Arrogant, whinging paranoid entitled w*****s in all honesty. Another one. Hope it gets upheld or near as dammit to the 10 and then they get a 2nd deduction this season. Edited February 19 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Arrogant, whinging paranoid entitled w*****s in all honesty. Another one. Hope it gets upheld or near as dammit to the 10 and then they get a 2nd deduction this season. Really amazing what the PL does to fans. They are (believe it or not) a thoroughly normal and down to earth bunch, but when it comes to finances, I'd like to strangle each and every one of them til they're blue and sputtering. My family are Everton fans on my Mum's side and are embracing the victimhood complex wholeheartedly. It's like they don't even realise there's a world outside the Premier League. EDIT: I'll post my balls on OTIB if the deduction gets rescinded. Edited February 19 by ZiderEyed 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) 39 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said: Really amazing what the PL does to fans. They are (believe it or not) a thoroughly normal and down to earth bunch, but when it comes to finances, I'd like to strangle each and every one of them til they're blue and sputtering. My family are Everton fans on my Mum's side and are embracing the victimhood complex wholeheartedly. It's like they don't even realise there's a world outside the Premier League. EDIT: I'll post my balls on OTIB if the deduction gets rescinded. Well okay maybe my post was a bit unfair but I used to think quite well of Everton tbh but their reaction from the club top brass all the way down to fans has been ridiculous and insular at best. I suppose I should caveat my post a bit, on tbis particular issue their views seem to he as described in my earlier post. Edited February 19 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) Quote Everton have let it be known “off the record” they are preparing to take our case to the high court. They are of course perfectly entitled to do so. However they can only appeal to the High Court on limited grounds. These are detailed in the EPL handbook as follows: So that will be tricky. I also believe that they will need the permission of the Court to start proceedings. Edited February 19 by Hxj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 15 minutes ago, Hxj said: They are of course perfectly entitled to do so. However they can only appeal to the High Court on limited grounds. These are detailed in the EPL handbook as follows: So that will be tricky. I also believe that they will need the permission of the Court to start proceedings. This is it, and thanks. Struggling to see to either the grounds or the timeframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 14 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Evertonian- dunno what to say really.. Will take many years to get it to court no? 14 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Arrogant, whinging paranoid entitled w*****s in all honesty. Another one. Hope it gets upheld or near as dammit to the 10 and then they get a 2nd deduction this season. 14 hours ago, ZiderEyed said: Really amazing what the PL does to fans. They are (believe it or not) a thoroughly normal and down to earth bunch, but when it comes to finances, I'd like to strangle each and every one of them til they're blue and sputtering. My family are Everton fans on my Mum's side and are embracing the victimhood complex wholeheartedly. It's like they don't even realise there's a world outside the Premier League. EDIT: I'll post my balls on OTIB if the deduction gets rescinded. Much as we saw with Derby's situation, fans of clubs affected by sanctions for ffp/p&s breaches seem to think that they have a case based solely on "being hard done by", "it's not fair", "the impact on the club - relegation, risk of admin or worse" and of course " whataboutery". What those fans fail to understand is that had their clubs not broken the financial rules ( cheating - as it enabled them to gain an unfair advantage over other clubs in their division who did adhere to the rules), then it could well have resulted in the very same outcomes they argue that could/will result from ffp/p&s sanctions -certainly true in the case of Everton! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fgrsimon Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Why would the football authorities have a vendetta against Everton in particular? You'd have thought if they wanted rid of certain teams for some strange reason, it would be the less famous, poorly supported clubs like Bournemouth or Brentford that don't bring in as much money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 I heard / read that Everton's second breach was just for the season following the three they previously got docked points for. Having been punished, a line was drawn and they were allowed to lose £35m in that season after allowances and lost more, which knocks all of the "punished twice for the same seasons" complaints on the head. I do recall a similar clause in either Birmingham's or Sheffield Wednesday's resolution document. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) McNeil to Onana, for their equaliser. Both players signed for fees after their first PSR breach to 2022. In the EFL of course that isn't possible. Breach=Ban on Fees, Loan Fees etc. Plus pushing for the appropriate deduction. Only allowed to add if less than 24 Established Players and even then no Transfer Fee, Loan Fees, Signing on Fees and Agents Fees plus perhaps wages limited. Edited February 19 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: McNeil to Onana, for their equaliser. Both players signed for fees after their first PSR breach to 2022. In the EFL of course that isn't possible. Breach=Ban on Fees, Loan Fees etc. Plus pushing for the appropriate deduction. Only allowed to add if less than 24 Established Players and even them no Transfer Fee, Loan Fees, Signing on Fees and Agents Fees plus perhaps wages limited. It's why I think they need to be severely punished due to the advantage they've gained on the pitch due to their cheating at the expense of other clubs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said: It's why I think they need to be severely punished due to the advantage they've gained on the pitch due to their cheating at the expense of other clubs. Exactly. They may have been able to sign some of the loans and frees in summer 2022 and or January 2022 still but beyond that..an EPL Business Plan equivalent is required, they seem to lack one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 6 hours ago, downendcity said: Much as we saw with Derby's situation, fans of clubs affected by sanctions for ffp/p&s breaches seem to think that they have a case based solely on "being hard done by", "it's not fair", "the impact on the club - relegation, risk of admin or worse" and of course " whataboutery". What those fans fail to understand is that had their clubs not broken the financial rules ( cheating - as it enabled them to gain an unfair advantage over other clubs in their division who did adhere to the rules), then it could well have resulted in the very same outcomes they argue that could/will result from ffp/p&s sanctions -certainly true in the case of Everton! Put perfectly. You called it quite early iirc That like the EFL with Derby, the PL were and seemed reluctant to grasp the nettle with Everton for some time. Much of the consequences could prove to be similar. The size of the firesale had Everton gone down in 2021-22 well I dread to think really. Some similarities had they dropped last year too. Limited Wage Reduction clauses, an underlying loss in 2021-22 of £100m or more, FFP limit down to £83m from £105m and Parachute plus EFL deal sees TV Revenue alone drop £60m. Ironically letting it spiral, earlier intervention by the Governing bodies maybe would have helped with solvency for e.g. Derby, Reading and who knows Everton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 7 hours ago, Davefevs said: Good news for Luton. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said: Good news for Luton. Plus anyone else in and around the bottom third who are compliant. (Still have reservations on Bournemouth and Fulham but they haven't been referred). Burnley and Sheffield United are probably doomed regardless. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 14 hours ago, SimonD said: I heard / read that Everton's second breach was just for the season following the three they previously got docked points for. Having been punished, a line was drawn and they were allowed to lose £35m in that season after allowances and lost more, which knocks all of the "punished twice for the same seasons" complaints on the head. I do recall a similar clause in either Birmingham's or Sheffield Wednesday's resolution document. Yeah, think what happened in those cases especially the 2nd Birmingham one (Sheffield Wednesday was the Stadium sale moving to the correct year resolving all issues), was that: *Prior two years. A) Losses in excess of the Upper Loss limit for one year were reset to the Upper. *Losses at that stayed the same. *Losses below stayed the same. Thereby providing a base for the next assessment. Reading and their failed Business Plan also had similar. Edited February 20 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 Putting aside my obvious views about the sanction being fair and the Everton moaning being Special Pleading and or entitlement, what legally or procedurally constitutes the case for Everton to get some points back? Carragher and others talk of it, Maguire but it was a significant breach that would get you-12 in the EFL probably, I don't see the great mitigation here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Author Report Share Posted February 22 Wonder when the Appeal Verdict is out, meant to be this week isn't it. Dragging a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Sinclair Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Reduced punishment to six points 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 6 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said: Reduced punishment to six points Just seen that . Not surprised but they have another case to answer to of course . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 26 Author Report Share Posted February 26 Seems unduly generous on the face of it. https://www.premierleague.com/news/3912574 Written Reasons will be interesting to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 26 Author Report Share Posted February 26 Given the points ratio I'd say Burnley still have a case. They finished 4 ahead of Burnley in 2021-22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Seems unduly generous on the face of it. https://www.premierleague.com/news/3912574 Written Reasons will be interesting to see. Absolutely ridiculous. Cheat by the amount they did and all they get is minus two wins? Can't help but feel that the pending breach has played a significant part in this decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Enter administration -12 points Cheat -6 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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