Everton FFP- yes

[Sniper]

Only 2 bloody points the cheating wanchors. There going to stay up now with ease

[transfer reader]

7 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Deducted 2 more points for breaching the rules again.

Almost pointless (not intended) as a punishment really that they've had the first significantly reduced (40% off) and a second that's a slap on the wrist.

Most frustrating of all, it's toothless measures like this that Man City and Chelsea will point to when their cases are having decisions made and they'll get off lightly too as a result.

[Markthehorn]

12 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Deducted 2 more points for breaching the rules again.

Probably still appeal it !

Get less for doing the same thing twice .

Edited April 8 by Markthehorn

[RedM]

Just reading they have now dropped to 16th, but Forest are expecting to hear about a further deduction for them later this week.

So I guess it will be fixed so Everton are seemingly punished but escape the drop?

[phantom]

£16.6m loss this time

[W-S-M Seagull]

Sorry but they may aswell get rid if these FFP as the punishments are pathetic. They've clearly twisted things to give Everton a favourable outcome. 

 

The commission decided that any breach of PSR justifies a three-point deduction, with an additional two points because Everton's breach of £16.6m - 15.8% above the £105m threshold - is deemed significant.

 

However, the commission accepted Everton's arguments for mitigation in relation to the fact the club has:

 

Already been deducted points this season

Suffered a loss of revenue because of the suspension of a sponsorship deal with Russian company USM

Made an early admission of guilt

The commission concluded that the fact Everton have already been punished this season merits a two-point reduction in punishment, with a further point for the loss of sponsorship revenue and early admission of guilt.

Edited April 8 by W-S-M Seagull

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Made an early admission of guilt

Sorry to quote myself but this annoys me. If a club makes an early admission of guilt and then recieves a discount because of that. Then surely if they appeal like Everton intend to do then they should lose that discount. 

[Sleepy1968]

40 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Sorry to quote myself but this annoys me. If a club makes an early admission of guilt and then recieves a discount because of that. Then surely if they appeal like Everton intend to do then they should lose that discount. 

That's a good point. Sadly, I think they stay up. But we've always got a further inquiry re interest payments on the stadium deal and the unraveling of 777's involvement in the club to look forward to.

[Markthehorn]

Apparently Everton might have more cases to answer going into next season?!

Never ending

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/08/everton-hit-with-two-point-deduction-over-second-breach-of-financial-rules

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

Apparently Everton might have more cases to answer going into next season?!

Never ending

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/08/everton-hit-with-two-point-deduction-over-second-breach-of-financial-rules

Will just be another slap on the wrist whilst clubs that get relegated by sticking by the rules. 

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Sorry to quote myself but this annoys me. If a club makes an early admission of guilt and then recieves a discount because of that. Then surely if they appeal like Everton intend to do then they should lose that discount. 

Isn't it the case that they're not appealing the guilt, they're appealing the penalty imposed. They're saying "you've punished us too much". 

Honestly in this second case I'm surprised that the PL aren't appealing.

Appealing is a risk btw. There's nothing to stop a commission from increasing the punishment.

Personally I wonder if the other clubs could all decide to cheat in order to let Luton, Brentford, and Burnley win all their remaining games and get Everton and Forest relegated.

Edited April 8 by ExiledAjax

[Markthehorn]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Will just be another slap on the wrist whilst clubs that get relegated by sticking by the rules. 

They all say it's unfair because Man City haven't been punished but I believe they have a very different set of charges ( plus a load more ( and are defending themselves against all of them as is their right.

Of course it's taken a long time but maybe City will be strongly penalised.

I say maybe ..

[Hxj]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Already been deducted points this season

That doesn't appear in the decision - the relevant part of the summary of the decision is:

I also understand, though haven't read the whole decision yet, that if there was a 'reset' as in the EFL rules when you have been sanctioned Everton would not have breached and therefore not be penalised.

Edited April 8 by Hxj

[SimonD]

45 minutes ago, Hxj said:

That doesn't appear in the decision - the relevant part of the summary of the decision is:

I also understand, though haven't read the whole decision yet, that if there was a 'reset' as in the EFL rules when you have been sanctioned Everton would not have breached and therefore not be penalised.

Are you saying that T-1 and T-2 are not capped as they have already been punished for them in the Premier League version of FFP?

The breach of circa £17m suggests that they are with the 22-23 loss alone being £89m.

 

Edited April 8 by SimonD

[RollsRoyce]

Yet Swindon were relegated 2 divisions 30 plus years ago. 

[pillred]

2 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

Yet Swindon were relegated 2 divisions 30 plus years ago. 

They were initially, but of course the inevitable happened they appealed and their punishment was then reduced to getting demoted back to the second division.

[RollsRoyce]

5 hours ago, pillred said:

They were initially, but of course the inevitable happened they appealed and their punishment was then reduced to getting demoted back to the second division.

Hardly comparable to a few points here and there though is it? 

[ExiledAjax]

They could yet receive more punishment as there's an outstanding dispute around the capitalisation of some of the loan they took out for their new stadium (plus interest). 

Looking at the sums involved that might amount to a further 1 point deduction.

Para 20 of the award basically says that the Commission will determine the outcome of that "at a later time".

[W-S-M Seagull]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

They could yet receive more punishment as there's an outstanding dispute around the capitalisation of some of the loan they took out for their new stadium (plus interest). 

Looking at the sums involved that might amount to a further 1 point deduction.

Para 20 of the award basically says that the Commission will determine the outcome of that "at a later time".

Why wasn't it dealt with now? What if Luton get relegated by 1 point? That would be incredibly harsh on them. 

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why wasn't it dealt with now? What if Luton get relegated by 1 point? That would be incredibly harsh on them. 

In simple terms, because it's complicated, is in dispute, and they didn't want to wait for expert determination on the matter.

In detailed terms - as follows.

The commission does recognise that this is not exactly desirable and is "acutely aware" that people want this sorted quickly.

Edited April 9 by ExiledAjax

[pillred]

11 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

Hardly comparable to a few points here and there though is it? 

No, but they weren't demoted TWO divisions as the post I was replying to stated.

Edited April 9 by pillred

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 points feels light.

I'd be Appealing that as the PL and maybe I'd even have Appealed the -4 for Nottingham Forest..

They really need a Fixed Tariff system but would that rule out the strongest punishments for clubs when a points deduction and or Embargo don't cut it?

[chinapig]

Imagine my shock when I read that 777 Partners don't actually have the money to buy Everton. Who'd have guessed it?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/10/everton-takeover-thrown-into-fresh-doubt-as-777-asks-for-more-time

[chinapig]

Perhaps Everton fans could take time off from complaining that the world is against them to tale note of things that shoud really concern them.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/12/everton-paid-30m-interest-lender-rights-media-funding-links-with-tax-exile-documents-suggest

See also my post above about 777 Partners. Points deductions are the least of their problems.

[chinapig]

Now Everton have avoided relegation perhaps their fans can turn their attention to 777 Partners takeover bid. Just when they thought it was safe to celebrate...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/30/blow-to-would-be-everton-owners-777-partners-as-airline-enters-administration

Or will they claim another conspiracy by the Premier League?

[Mr Popodopolous]

It feels like the Authorities are bending over backwards to try and preserve Everton and their financial position in some respects.

I genuinely would've appealed as the PL a 2nd deduction of only 2 points as being derisory given thst the threshold missed for a 2nd year on the spin.

PSR aside, can a club just exist in a never never world of a takeover process needing more time, more time and on borrowed money just getting loans that may or may not be repaid for a stadium that will be built but isn't it overdue and over budget already 

Edited Tuesday at 11:09 by Mr Popodopolous

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It feels like the Authorities are bending over backwards to try and preserve Everton and their financial position in some respects.

I genuinely would've appealed as the PL a 2nd deduction of only 2 points as being derisory given thst the threshold missed by 2 points.

PSR aside, can a club just exist in a never never world of a takeover process needing more time, more time and on borrowed money just getting loans that may or may not be repaid for a stadium that will be built but isn't it overdue and over budget already 

The Guardian is now reporting that Everton have called in restructuring and insolvency practitioners.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/30/everton-call-in-insolvency-restructuring-advisers-777-takeover-doubt

The PL should surely now show 777 a red card. Everton's best hope might be that the other major creditors take over. Though they would then have to repay the 777 loans presumably so maybe not.

[ExiledAjax]

16 minutes ago, chinapig said:

The PL should surely now show 777 a red card. Everton's best hope might be that the other major creditors take over. Though they would then have to repay the 777 loans presumably so maybe not.

And if a company has loans that it cannot repay and that no one will take on...

... someone will rescue Everton, I don't think that a club of that standing will cease to exist. But it's going to be messy, and the prospect of a -9 (iirc?) to start next season could finally, finally, relegate them.

[Markthehorn]

Another set of owners not fit and proper to take over a club but are allowed to..?

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

The Guardian is now reporting that Everton have called in restructuring and insolvency practitioners.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/30/everton-call-in-insolvency-restructuring-advisers-777-takeover-doubt

The PL should surely now show 777 a red card. Everton's best hope might be that the other major creditors take over. Though they would then have to repay the 777 loans presumably so maybe not.

777 will be shown the red card by the PL. That will then trigger Everton entering administration. 

In my opinion the PL are holding off doing that this season as that would mean Everton being relegated. 

What I don't like is that everything has been done to protect Evertons premier league status. Its destroying the integrity of the sport and clubs like Luton who play by the book are the ones being punished.