Markthehorn Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 (edited) Goodness knows what relegation would do to them ! Just wasting so much money . How much did that Beto cost for example? Guess they will say it’s all due to the new ground . Edited March 31 by Markthehorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 (edited) Apologies, -£127.503m if Restatement allowed and -£133.822m if not. They appear to have capitalised certain Stadium Interest Payments. Edited March 31 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 1 minute ago, Markthehorn said: Goodness knows what relegation would do to them ! From bits I read, 2 years ago they had only minimal Relegation wage clauses! Have more now but expect it could still be a big issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: -£255m in this Reporting Period despite the Accounting Policy change. Yes there was the Covid double season. Mind bogglingly bad financial management. Crazily high losses. With most Covid allowables dropping off, at best they go into this year with -£124m Pre Tax. 2018-19..-£111.845m 2019-20..-£120.9m 2020-21..-£139.863m (Average around-£130m). 2021-22..-£44.732m (or -£38.413m) 2022-23..-£89.09m. Everton fans' response. It's not fair........... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 16 minutes ago, downendcity said: Everton fans' response. It's not fair........... Someone I take as a sensible Everton fan, who does indeed analyse their Financials- The Esk- he forecast a Loss pre tax of £49m laat year. 80%, or so worse, wow. No wonder they failed again. They spent £90-95m on Additions in the Transfer Market last season, some of ir maybe contingent ie triggered on Appearances etc but.. Compare and contrast to Wolves who slammed the breaks in Summer 2023, got selling and continued consolidation in January 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 19 minutes ago, Markthehorn said: Guess they will say it’s all due to the new ground . Exactly what an Everton fan said on The Overlap last week. He's a regular on there on proves his ignorance every time he's on. Plus they have £500m in loans secured on the stadium. If they are not taken over by 777 Partners they are in big trouble. If they are taken over by 777 Partners they are also in big trouble. If they are taken over by 777 Partners and relegated heaven only knows what will happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42nite Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 (edited) 4 minutes ago, chinapig said: Plus they have £500m in loans secured on the stadium. If they are not taken over by 777 Partners they are in big trouble. If they are taken over by 777 Partners they are also in big trouble. If they are taken over by 777 Partners and relegated heaven only knows what will happen. The Sags will have their new stadiyum. Edited March 31 by 42nite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 (edited) 7 minutes ago, chinapig said: Exactly what an Everton fan said on The Overlap last week. He's a regular on there on proves his ignorance every time he's on. Plus they have £500m in loans secured on the stadium. If they are not taken over by 777 Partners they are in big trouble. If they are taken over by 777 Partners they are also in big trouble. If they are taken over by 777 Partners and relegated heaven only knows what will happen. Can they actually pay for it all or relying on endless loans to be paid back In the future? I am sure the builders don’t want to be kept waiting for their money . Edited March 31 by Markthehorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 Kieran makes it easy for this thread . Not massively surprising , but for fans massively disappointing for the Club to be ran this way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 17 minutes ago, chinapig said: Exactly what an Everton fan said on The Overlap last week. He's a regular on there on proves his ignorance every time he's on. Plus they have £500m in loans secured on the stadium. If they are not taken over by 777 Partners they are in big trouble. If they are taken over by 777 Partners they are also in big trouble. If they are taken over by 777 Partners and relegated heaven only knows what will happen. Just what I was thinking China. Everton fans bemoaning the punishment meted out for P&S breaches, are kidding themselves and missing the bigger picture. How far away are they from being insolvent? It seems everything hinges on the 777 takeover ( although from the little I've heard/read about 777 it seems to me that their track record would seem to indicate a case of out of the frying pan into the fire). Also Everton is looking increasingly like a basket case that's only getting worse, and there has to be a danger of any party interested in a takeover getting cold feet. At the very least Everton's sale price must be taking a nose dive! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 35 minutes ago, Markthehorn said: Can they actually pay for it all or relying on endless loans to be paid back In the future? I am sure the builders don’t want to be kept waiting for their money . It's even more complicated than I suggested. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/29/two-fifths-of-premier-league-clubs-yet-to-file-as-accounts-deadline-looms It is understood that Moshiri did not inject any new cash into Everton during the 2023 financial year, with funding instead coming via loans from third parties’ lenders that are thought to have lent more than £500m to the club. That includes about £225m from Rights and Media Funding Ltd (R&MF), an opaque UK company based in Cheshire with no employees that derives its financing from offshore secrecy jurisdictions; about £140m from a combination of the one-time suitor MSP Sports Capital and Blythe Capital; £20m from Metro Bank and more than £170m from 777 Partners, the investment company attempting to buy Everton. R&MF has security over property around the club’s Goodison Park stadium, as well as an Everton bank account, public Companies House filings set out. MSP and Blythe have security over the new stadium development at Bramley-Moore Dock, as well as a charge over just over half of Moshiri’s shares in Blue Heaven Holdings, the Isle of Man company that holds the businessman’s 94% stake in the club, according to corporate documents. Much depends on the terms but if the loans are called in it could be curtains. Their fans are so busy blaming the wrong people all this seems to have escaped their attention. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 And for their next chapter: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/31/evertons-financial-woes-continue-as-loss-doubles-to-89m The accounts, which were released during the high-profile Premier League clash between Manchester City and Arsenal, showed the club lost £89.1m, which shot up from £44.7m from 2021-22. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 Their Cash position doesn't look too clever either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 1 Author Report Share Posted April 1 Let's try to calculate the breach then. I misrembered, it was -£55m not -£53m. On one hand, -£55m and -£10m. On the other hand was this inclusive of the restatement which opened some £6m off the Pre Tax Loss. Plus the variable of Everton claiming around £8m in Covid losses for 2021-22. If it was prior to the Restatement (how should that be treated under PSR btw it goes). -£44m then knock off £8m for Covid and by process of elimination you get to-£10m so another £26m in Allowables. If it was post the restatement then £-38m, knock off £8m for Covid and by process of elimination you get to -£10m so another £20m in Allowables. Covid isn't a factor last year so you either knock off a likely £20m, or £26m in the first instance and then they will argue about £15-20m in Usmanov sponsorships they have been cost. Could be looking at an overspend of anything between £15-30m. You can't knock points off for an improving trend. Seen suggestions online or the top end ie -£25-30m for their 2nd breach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 1 Author Report Share Posted April 1 More sloppy or perhaps pisspoor Reporting on the Everton case. The Athletic It is NOT the case that a Club cannot fail FFP/P&S in successive years in the Football League, it is the matter of the principle of Reset to individual years that exceed and staying as it is to years that fall below. This forms the basis for the next year and perhaps the one after that. It doesn't reset as a whole or for the subsequent years. Evertonians will read that and whinge double jeopardy but that is awful Reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 2 Author Report Share Posted April 2 Not sure who they think they are. We went 15 months without a penalty despite and including steadily improving attacking and underlying metrics. https://www.everton.news/everton-fans-forum-now-left-baffled-by-howard-webbs-response-to-var-controversy/ We had many good shouts turned down. Hope they get a 2nd deduction and get relegated albeit Nottingham Forest also have overspend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Not sure who they think they are. We went 15 months without a penalty despite and including steadily improving attacking and underlying metrics. https://www.everton.news/everton-fans-forum-now-left-baffled-by-howard-webbs-response-to-var-controversy/ We had many good shouts turned down. Hope they get a 2nd deduction and get relegated albeit Nottingham Forest also have overspend. I feel sorry for Luton. They have gone into the prem and spent very little (by Premier league standards) and they could well be relegated because the two teams above them have cheated and gained a lasting sporting advantage. Everton will probably end up with -10 that they originally had. We could very well end up in a situation where Everton appeal the 2nd punishment and then get a point or two back and that could see Luton relegated instead of them. These punishments are far too lenient. Luton may aswell have spent far more and would have stood a greater chance of staying up and gaining another year of Premier league money. It feels like clubs that do stick to the rules are being disadvantaged and are being cheated by clubs that are happy to take the gamble. Luton and Everton have to play each other so that could well be a huge game. I can't see the PL giving approval to 777. If Everton go down in my opinion they'll end up in administration and in all sorts of bother. This worries me as I think that would put an enormous amount of pressure on an appeal commission if Everton were relegated by 1 or 2 points. I actually feel sick thinking about how Luton may secure survival by a point or two and then an appeal commission hands those points back to Everton after the season has finished which would see Luton go down instead. Imagine the special pleading that we will see in that sort of scenario! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) Report of a 3rd Everton FFP breach on the cards if they don't fix by 30th June. https://www.goodisonnews.com/2024/04/03/everton-must-sell-multiple-key-players-amid-risk-of-3rd-profit-and-sustainability-breach/ Edited April 3 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 30 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Report of a 3rd Everton FFP breach on the cards if they don't fix by 30th June. https://www.goodisonnews.com/2024/04/03/everton-must-sell-multiple-key-players-amid-risk-of-3rd-profit-and-sustainability-breach/ I'm getting Dutch boy with his fingers in the dyke vibes about this ....... in the financial sense of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) 22 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: I feel sorry for Luton. They have gone into the prem and spent very little (by Premier league standards) and they could well be relegated because the two teams above them have cheated and gained a lasting sporting advantage. Everton will probably end up with -10 that they originally had. We could very well end up in a situation where Everton appeal the 2nd punishment and then get a point or two back and that could see Luton relegated instead of them. These punishments are far too lenient. Luton may aswell have spent far more and would have stood a greater chance of staying up and gaining another year of Premier league money. It feels like clubs that do stick to the rules are being disadvantaged and are being cheated by clubs that are happy to take the gamble. Luton and Everton have to play each other so that could well be a huge game. I can't see the PL giving approval to 777. If Everton go down in my opinion they'll end up in administration and in all sorts of bother. This worries me as I think that would put an enormous amount of pressure on an appeal commission if Everton were relegated by 1 or 2 points. I actually feel sick thinking about how Luton may secure survival by a point or two and then an appeal commission hands those points back to Everton after the season has finished which would see Luton go down instead. Imagine the special pleading that we will see in that sort of scenario! Got round to this post. Totally agree WSM. Luton have been so compliant and they lest we forget got punished immensely by the EFL and FA all the way down to the Conference from the mid to late 2000s. I'm paraphrasing a bit.. -4 would be too light IMO and especially for a 2nd offence. That could be a winner takes it all, in May at Kenilworth Road. That is the thing, the risk of Everton going into administration should be an irrelevant consideration. The EFL did not care about this with Derby, they even pursued Derby after this and made sure their Rules would be upheld and enforced. Actually a Commission in one of the Appeals and or Cases nailed it..the wider principle and consequences. Deemed self-inflicted and given short shrift by the Commission that ultimately ordered them to Restate Accounts in the correct manner. Edited April 3 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 Everton going into Administration e.g. via a points deduction got a and breach in other words should carry little weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 Two other excellent Paragraphs. This Commission should be commended, really very good. Without fear and favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 Just found this on the Sunderland forum; https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/premier-league-eyeing-up-abolishing-points-deductions.1631030/ Basically want to scrap points deductions as per title and introduce a luxury tax. If that happens it'd provably result in the PL becoming a two horse race each year between the two state owned clubs. And would make a bit of a farce of the PL as a sporting competition. It would likely widen the already huge gap between the top and bottom clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 7 minutes ago, 22A said: Just found this on the Sunderland forum; https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/premier-league-eyeing-up-abolishing-points-deductions.1631030/ Basically want to scrap points deductions as per title and introduce a luxury tax. If that happens it'd provably result in the PL becoming a two horse race each year between the two state owned clubs. And would make a bit of a farce of the PL as a sporting competition. It would likely widen the already huge gap between the top and bottom clubs. This feels like their way of protecting Man City and Chelsea. What a farce Football at the top in this Country is becoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 4 Author Report Share Posted April 4 (edited) 15 minutes ago, 2015 said: This feels like their way of protecting Man City and Chelsea. What a farce Football at the top in this Country is becoming. Not sure it impacts upon existing cases but then changing the system 1/3, halfway, 2/3 whatever through the rolling cycle is hardly good governance either!! Well they can plan changes now but perhaps with a hard launch in 2026-27, that would make sense. Instant change however.. The Premier League seem awfully run however. Albeit the Clubs vote for the Rules. Edited April 4 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transfer reader Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 6 hours ago, 22A said: Just found this on the Sunderland forum; https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/premier-league-eyeing-up-abolishing-points-deductions.1631030/ Basically want to scrap points deductions as per title and introduce a luxury tax. If that happens it'd provably result in the PL becoming a two horse race each year between the two state owned clubs. And would make a bit of a farce of the PL as a sporting competition. It would likely widen the already huge gap between the top and bottom clubs. Thing is, Everton fans will cry about this coming in and not realise that it is (in part) a response to their constant crying about them getting a points deduction. Their already massive victim complex will go into overdrive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 The luxury tax would be a horrendous rule, what incentive is there for owners who treat the club as a play thing to make sure the club is sustainable? You essentially just add the tax amount into how much you plan for paying on transfers but the club will be the one lumped with the debt & repayments whereas owners will just sell when they get bored or see things going bad. Clubs already making huge losses will just see 'you won't get punished for spending more' and throw money at it trying to push themselves up the league. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 6 Author Report Share Posted April 6 https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/05/not-on-my-watch-sean-dyche-hits-out-at-costly-everton-mismanagement It's a bit NP (plus Gould) coming to clear up the mess. I reckon Everton wouldn't have run aground had Dyche been there for the duration e.g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 6 Author Report Share Posted April 6 Benitez also started to bring some costs down or at least show some restraint in the market to a degree but not sure of the timing of some of the January activity. Dyche though..bit of NP inheriting a shitshow about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted April 8 Admin Report Share Posted April 8 Deducted 2 more points for breaching the rules again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.