Massengo Contract

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If he's been offered a Contract in order to protect our position of recouping "some" fee for the lad I would have thought that we don't want him to do ANYTHING with it? Or am I missing something obvious here? I assume he's been offered a Contract that covers a worst case scenario where he says "actually I haven't been able to get anything and I'll sign it thanks" is acceptable to the club.

The contract has been offered with the expectation that he doesn’t sign it.  As he is u24 (FA Rules) and u23 (FIFA Rules) then as long as we offer a contract of at least as good terms as the best year of his current contract. Then if he decides to turn it down (he will), then we are entitled to compo from the club he next signs for.  How much depends on….see next bit.

31 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I can't see the compensation being large. While we paid a reasonable amount for him and aided his development, and that he's still young with untapped potential, it is clear from the engineering of the contract offer that we don't want him. 

if he signs for a club abroad, we will get compo under the FIFA RSTP scheme.  It is a fixed formula based on how many years he has spent “developing” here and the level of the club he goes to.  Let’s assume he goes to Auxerre in Ligue1.  It’s 4 years @ €90k p.a, therefore €360k.  If he went to a Ligue2 team it’s 4 years @ €60k p.a, therefore €240k.  It’s why I quote circa €300k, halfway between the two.  It is very likely it will be a Ligue1 club so likely €360k.  Better than nothing!

If he signs for a club in the English FA (unlikely imho) then we will get compo under the PFCC.  

How the PFCC determines compensation

o 3.1: The status of each of the clubs

o 3.2: The age of the player

o 3.3: The Training Model on which the player was engaged

o 3.4: Any fee paid by the former club in acquiring the player's registration

o 3.5: The length of time the player was registered with the former club

o 3.6: The terms of the new contracts offered to him by both clubs

o 3.7: The player's playing record including any international appearances

o 3.8: Substantiated interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the player's registration

The fact that we paid £2.8m in the first place will help our case.

Just now, Riaz said:

I dont think we get compensation if he moves abroad.

Incorrect. See sbove

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed since he's moved back to France he's had a couple of under 21 international games.

He's in theory playing at a higher level all be it in a very polarised league of haves and have nots.  

I think he will get an offer in the French top tier, and we just want to make sure a sell on clause is backed into his contract.  Whatever fee we get will be nominal. 

[italian dave]

26 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I imagine it is more “we don’t expect him to sign” than “we don’t want him to”. He’s a good player and Pearson has said in the past he rates him. I am sure the club would be very pleased if he committed his future, came back and knuckled down to compete for a first team place. It seems a very unlikely scenario though.

I’d agree: very, very unlikely! There was some discussion on the Retained thread about the possibility, but I think that boat has long sailed.

He’s established himself fairly quickly in a Ligue1 side, has been getting good reviews, he’s continued his progress through the French international under 18s, 19s,20s and now plays for the U21s. He’ll have other options on the table without a shadow of doubt.
Why would he come back to a side that clearly plays a style and a game plan that doesn’t suit his strengths (although I think he’d be far happier in the midfield 3 we now play).

No criticism there of either him or us - it’s just the way it’s worked out. 

[Riaz]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Incorrect. See sbove

At least we get something then, even if its minimal

1 minute ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed since he's moved back to France he's had a couple of under 21 international games.

He's in theory playing at a higher level all be it in a very polarised league of haves and have nots.  

I think he will get an offer in the French top tier, and we just want to make sure a sell on clause is backed into his contract.  Whatever fee we get will be nominal. 

He played against Mbappe and Messi at the weekend. They only lost by a goal aswell

[Moulin Rougier]

35 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed since he's moved back to France he's had a couple of under 21 international games.

He's in theory playing at a higher level all be it in a very polarised league of haves and have nots.  

I think he will get an offer in the French top tier, and we just want to make sure a sell on clause is backed into his contract.  Whatever fee we get will be nominal. 

I don't think there will be any sell on clauses as his contract with us is ending so we aren't selling him and therefore can't put any clauses in the sale to ensure his new club give us a percentage of any future sale. If you get me.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Moulin Rougier said:

I don't think there will be any sell on clauses as his contract with us is ending so we aren't selling him and therefore can't put any clauses in the sale to ensure his new club give us a percentage of any future sale. If you get me.

Correct, if he goes back to France / abroad

If he was to stay in this country, then things like appearance payouts and sell-ons are usually added in.

I think sentence 1 is 99.99% more likely.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

4 hours ago, Moulin Rougier said:

I don't think there will be any sell on clauses as his contract with us is ending so we aren't selling him and therefore can't put any clauses in the sale to ensure his new club give us a percentage of any future sale. If you get me.

 

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Correct, if he goes back to France / abroad

If he was to stay in this country, then things like appearance payouts and sell-ons are usually added in.

I think sentence 1 is 99.99% more likely.

Ahhh Balls, it's marginally better than I thought it was a few months back then.  I thought overseas = 0 until recently. 

[alexukhc]

And if he accepts?

[Oh Louie louie]

What was the add ons if he made a 100 games? All a bit pie in the sky too say the least 

[Eddie Hitler]

10 minutes ago, alexukhc said:

And if he accepts?

 

HNM wanting to be here and to play for the team would be a decent proposition.

[Top Robin]

On his day he is excellent...trouble is that day is not often enough.

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, alexukhc said:

And if he accepts?

On the fraction of a percent that he signs, then Nige has a player he can challenge to get into the first team.

[alexukhc]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

On the fraction of a percent that he signs, then Nige has a player he can challenge to get into the first team.

Def a position we need some competition in, I don’t think he’ll sign it but maybe some time away was needed for him to evaluate that

[frenchred]

7 hours ago, Super said:

So what do we want him to do with it then?

It's really not difficult to understand

[Oh Louie louie]

If you were his agent, would you say well hans you were in England years, you never got much of a sniff international wise, play five or so games in France your in the squad, ...  Its not rocket science 

[frenchred]

1 minute ago, Oh Louie louie said:

If you were his agent, would you say well hans you were in England years, you never got much of a sniff international wise, play five or so games in France your in the squad, ...  Its not rocket science 

Maybe him not actually playing may have had a teenie weenie bit of relevance?

[Super]

4 minutes ago, frenchred said:

It's really not difficult to understand

Thanks. 

[Oh Louie louie]

52 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Maybe him not actually playing may have had a teenie weenie bit of relevance?

Exactly!

[BLRed]

Can see Sunderland going for him. They seem to be keen on promising young French players

[Simon bristol]

1 hour ago, BLRed said:

Can see Sunderland going for him. They seem to be keen on promising young French players

Would be ideal,,  if we paid about 2.5 and hes a france under 21 player now, then we ought to be able to hike up the tribunal fee? Certainly up to more than the 360k we would get if he goes to ligue 1

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, BLRed said:

Can see Sunderland going for him. They seem to be keen on promising young French players

They’ve just decided to not take up the loan option-to-buy on Michoud for £2.5m.

Cant honestly see Han going anywhere but France tbh.  Can you?

[BLRed]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

They’ve just decided to not take up the loan option-to-buy on Michoud for £2.5m.

Cant honestly see Han going anywhere but France tbh.  Can you?

More likely but massengo would cost pittance compared to the michut deal, who btw I regard as a very tidy midfielder, albeit a little lightweight currently. Whoever sign massengo would no doubt make a tidy profit if he came good. Low risk, high reward potential.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, BLRed said:

More likely but massengo would cost pittance compared to the michut deal, who btw I regard as a very tidy midfielder, albeit a little lightweight currently. Whoever sign massengo would no doubt make a tidy profit if he came good. Low risk, high reward potential.

What do you call a pittance….consider compo and wages?

[REDOXO]

On 22/05/2023 at 12:07, MelksRed said:

Thank you all....just been reading the Retained List thread. 

What a world we live in....contracts offered when we don't want them to sign to get compensation. Football is a complicated beast.

It is the same contract he was offered a year ago. I haven’t read therest of the Thread so apologies if mentioned already!

[BLRed]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

What do you call a pittance….consider compo and wages?

600k let’s say compared to 2.5mill is a big difference. I believe his wages were one of the lowest in the squad going by what his mother said so doubt they would struggle with that either

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

They’ve just decided to not take up the loan option-to-buy on Michoud for £2.5m.

Cant honestly see Han going anywhere but France tbh.  Can you?

No chance he goes anywhere else.

His successful loan at Auxerre has put him in the shop window for medium sized Ligue 1 clubs, like you I’ll be amazed if he is somewhere else than France at the start of next season.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, BLRed said:

600k let’s say compared to 2.5mill is a big difference. I believe his wages were one of the lowest in the squad going by what his mother said so doubt they would struggle with that either

Only my guess, but I reckon we’d get c£1.5m compo if he went to another English club.

I doubt the wage he was on, and therefore offered now to invoke compo is the lowest in the squad now, by any stretch.  It might’ve been before everyone (Weimann, Baker, Wells) started taking huge wage cuts or moved on, granted.  I reckon whatever we’ve offered him to get compo would be in the top third of players now.  Only my view.

(as you know, I like Han)

[Norn Iron]

15 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

If you were his agent, would you say well hans you were in England years, 

If I was his agent, I'd call him Han! I'd be his pedantic agent.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Norn Iron

[Major Isewater]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Only my guess, but I reckon we’d get c£1.5m compo if he went to another English club.

I doubt the wage he was on, and therefore offered now to invoke compo is the lowest in the squad now, by any stretch.  It might’ve been before everyone (Weimann, Baker, Wells) started taking huge wage cuts or moved on, granted.  I reckon whatever we’ve offered him to get compo would be in the top third of players now.  Only my view.

(as you know, I like Han)

Doesn’t the new contract have to be above or equivalent to the old one? 
If that’s the case then, view the transfer market at the time of his signing ,it’s a bloody good one .

 I trust the club won’t get shafted by this manipulation but if he signs I wouldn’t be unhappy. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Doesn’t the new contract have to be above or equivalent to the old one? 
If that’s the case then, view the transfer market at the time of his signing ,it’s a bloody good one .

 I trust the club won’t get shafted by this manipulation but if he signs I wouldn’t be unhappy. 

Yes, at least equal.