Massengo Contract

[Red-Robbo]

Our midfield basically didn't exist yesterday. 

Yet here, at the club, we had a player who has the pace and the footwork to carry the ball into their final third and we don't use him because of an extended sulk over his decision regarding his future.

HNM has no end product and is often a headless chicken, but he can take the ball upfield time and time again and if a pass isn't found, a free-kick is often won, because he's tough to get off the ball without fouling.

If Han was played and strolled about aimlessly a la Fam because he had lost interest in the club, then we might understand Pearson's decision. But we've no evidence of that, the player has spoken of his desire to play, and with January a few days away, he'd want to put himself in the shop window and attract interest.

Let's face it, with hopeless Scott and Williams' performances, if ever a game was screaming to bring Massengo on it was yesterday. But we chose not to have him in the matchday squad because he "isn't part of the future".  Andy King isn't part of the on-pitch future either, so where's the logic there?

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

That’s not true though is it? There have been countless games where he’s picked the ball up in our half and driven at the opposition before releasing the ball forward. QPR at home last season and Cardiff away last season both stand out although he does it almost every time he’s on the pitch.

Hes inconsistent and I wouldn’t want 40 starts from him over a season but almost none of what you’ve said is accurate aside from his shooting. If we see the game differently so be it.

He will almost certainly go to a top flight side in Europe and almost certainly develop as a footballer. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t get European football again at some point in his career. Not necessarily going to be a world beater but he’ll play at a higher standard than city in the next few years.

Yeah I’m sorry it is accurate, which is why he isn’t in the squad despite us being pony! 
 

Where he ends up who knows, but where he is, is our U21s, which is his level for now. If he improves to become a world beater or just a decent team player. good for him! 

[KegCity]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yeah I’m sorry it is accurate, which is why he isn’t in the squad despite us being pony! 
 

Where he ends up who knows, but where he is, is our U21s, which is his level for now. If he improves to become a world beater or just a decent team player. good for him! 

Hasn’t Pearson said publicly it’s because he won’t be here next season so he has no interest in playing him? Rather than by your estimation his inability to do anything at all right on the football pitch?

[Cityboy1954]

14 hours ago, Taunton_BCFC said:

For the love of god!!! Is pearson that stubborn!!! I don’t care if he wants to leave, he would surely offer more than the current midfield!!

Definately at least hes got energy.

[REDOXO]

16 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Hasn’t Pearson said publicly it’s because he won’t be here next season so he has no interest in playing him? Rather than by your estimation his inability to do anything at all right on the football pitch?

Ok! 
 

Good players play football, average players play football for us, those not deemed to be good enough play in the U21s

Massengo doesn’t play for two reasons, possibly three

1 He’s not deemed good enough. If he was deemed good enough and added something to a struggling team he would play under any circumstances 

2 He won’t sign a contract and as such is not worth developing and as reason one applies here also so he is in the under 21s 

3 This applies if either or both of 1 and 2 apply. You can not sell/give away an injured player, but you do need to keep him fit thus he plays a less stressful junior game to minimize injury exposure and pray the big club that you (plural) hope exists comes in for him in January (as there are hopefully two clubs that are interested and one of them wants him more) 

Pearson has the final say here and if wants him in he will override all considerations. Up until now he hasn’t 

I did tell you what he was good at, getting in between players and little drag backs per your second sentence. 

[italian dave]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Ok! 
 

Good players play football, average players play football for us, those not deemed to be good enough play in the U21s

Massengo doesn’t play for two reasons, possibly three

1 He’s not deemed good enough. If he was deemed good enough and added something to a struggling team he would play under any circumstances 

2 He won’t sign a contract and as such is not worth developing and as reason one applies here also so he is in the under 21s 

3 This applies if either or both of 1 and 2 apply. You can not sell/give away an injured player, but you do need to keep him fit thus he plays a less stressful junior game to minimize injury exposure and pray the big club that you (plural) hope exists comes in for him in January (as there are hopefully two clubs that are interested and one of them wants him more) 

Pearson has the final say here and if wants him in he will override all considerations. Up until now he hasn’t 

I did tell you what he was good at, getting in between players and little drag backs per your second sentence. 

Getting into broader territory than this thread is really about, but I do think that we play a style of football that really doesn't suit Massengo's strengths. Mainly because ours is a style of football that really doesn't seem to see the midfield as particularly significant or important - evidenced by the fact that we normally dispense with it almost entirely in the final 15/20 minutes of games we're chasing.

The principal role of the midfield in our set up seems to be to pass the ball back to a central defender so that they can either launch it 40 years out to a wing back, or alternatively launch it 50 years up the middle for a striker to chase. From time to time (when the back 3 are under pressure) the midfield role is to get it out to the wing back themselves. And that's about it!

We aren't a side that plays it through the middle, that looks for short passes to work it through, that looks to give midfielders options going forward - and that's why Massengo runs into cul de sacs so often. 

He could be good at so much more I feel. Yes, he's inconsistent as hell (in part because he's never really been given a consistent role to play in ) but a player who can do what he does from time to time (and I was there that famous day at Preston!!!) has the ability - it just needs to harnessed.

It won't be in our current set up, which is why it's best for all concerned - mostly the player himself - that he move on. And to bring it back to the point of the thread - it's why he won't make an earth shattering difference - I don't think anyone's saying that. But to not even be on a bench when there are no other midfield players there....??

[Street red]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Perhaps he’s signed a pre-contract (about to come out of the drawer on 1st Jan) and clubs are in discussions in trying to find the right deal to make it a Jan transfer?

I think he's gone and like you say already pre agreed. 

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Getting into broader territory than this thread is really about, but I do think that we play a style of football that really doesn't suit Massengo's strengths. Mainly because ours is a style of football that really doesn't seem to see the midfield as particularly significant or important - evidenced by the fact that we normally dispense with it almost entirely in the final 15/20 minutes of games we're chasing.

The principal role of the midfield in our set up seems to be to pass the ball back to a central defender so that they can either launch it 40 years out to a wing back, or alternatively launch it 50 years up the middle for a striker to chase. From time to time (when the back 3 are under pressure) the midfield role is to get it out to the wing back themselves. And that's about it!

We aren't a side that plays it through the middle, that looks for short passes to work it through, that looks to give midfielders options going forward - and that's why Massengo runs into cul de sacs so often. 

He could be good at so much more I feel. Yes, he's inconsistent as hell (in part because he's never really been given a consistent role to play in ) but a player who can do what he does from time to time (and I was there that famous day at Preston!!!) has the ability - it just needs to harnessed.

It won't be in our current set up, which is why it's best for all concerned - mostly the player himself - that he move on. And to bring it back to the point of the thread - it's why he won't make an earth shattering difference - I don't think anyone's saying that. But to not even be on a bench when there are no other midfield players there....??

Yes I do have some sympathy here. 
 

I think there is a player in there, but he doesn’t suit Pearson. However there really wasn’t a great deal to write home about under LJ and Holden either, outside of odd games. The memory of him having good games at QPR and Preston are telling in that people remember that odd good game. 
 

I wish the kid nothing but the best, but we haven’t as a club over four years extracted it. 

[italian dave]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

Yes I do have some sympathy here. 
 

I think there is a player in there, but he doesn’t suit Pearson. However there really wasn’t a great deal to write home about under LJ and Holden either, outside of odd games. The memory of him having good games at QPR and Preston are telling in that people remember that odd good game. 
 

I wish the kid nothing but the best, but we haven’t as a club over four years extracted it. 

I think if we'd had Massengo under LJ during his first two years we'd have seen the best of him. Although we wouldn't have seen it for long cos Ashton would have sold him for some big money!

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

He’s off in January. Get over him.  If we play him and he gets injured then whatever interest/agreement is in place goes… and we have to pay him 200k in wages until the end of his contract 

[petehinton]

12 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

I know this is a thread about HNM, but I have to say Joe Williams has been a huge let down for me. 

I appreciate HNM blows hot and cold, but I think I'd rather have him in the midfield than not. 

In fairness to Williams I don’t think any player would be the same after the gross negligence he faced by physios. He’s probably a bit lucky to still be able to pay. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, italian dave said:

You think the three midfield performances we saw yesterday are going to save us from relegation?

I quite simple don't want players to play for us who don't want to be here. 

[TV Tom]

36 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I quite simple don't want players to play for us who don't want to be here. 

Well we’d struggle to get 11 players on the pitch then, we pay his wages, he wants to play and he has more energy than Williams, King and James put together, 

[italian dave]

46 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I quite simple don't want players to play for us who don't want to be here. 

How do you know he doesn’t want to be here?

[sh1t_ref_again]

Don't understand some of the criticism of HNM, sure he is not on the same curve and potential as AS (there are not many that are), but he gives a lot of energy to midfield, possible one of the best we have at interceptions and breaking up play, very rarely gives the ball away cheaply and always gives 100%, but like all our players prone to poor games. Even if you do not start with Han, at the minimum he should have been on the bench and ready to come on when like yesterday we needed some freshening up. I have not been in the NP out yet, but getting very frustrated at his stance on HNM, unless of course there is some sort of agreement behind the scenes not to play him.

[Bris Red]

19 hours ago, Negan said:

The same Massengo who has one good game followed by 3/4 none existent performances? But you know what… I agree. Don’t think I’ve seen Joe Williams have a decent 90 yet. 

Yup I don’t get the hype around Joe Williams to be honest. He has always looked well off the pace whenever I have watched him live.

[MelksRed]

I'm surprised that he has been loaned to Auxerre and we are offering a contract.....thought he was out of favour / no longer wanted to be here (or had an appearance barrier that couldn't be breeched). Anyone clear this up for me?

Edited May 22, 2023 by MelksRed

[Davefevs]

All in the retained list thread

[Cardy]

He’s been offered a contract for only one reason & it’s not on the basis that we want him to sign it!

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, Cardy said:

He’s been offered a contract for only one reason & it’s not on the basis that we want him to sign it!

It won't happen but if he were to suddenly sign the contract then Pearson has shown many times before that he's more than willing to give players another chance. 

[class not gas]

24 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

I'm surprised that he has been loaned to Auxerre and we are offering a contract.....thought he was out of favour / no longer wanted to be here (or had an appearance barrier that couldn't be breeched). Anyone clear this up for me?

It's so we can get compensation for him when he moves.

[MelksRed]

Thank you all....just been reading the Retained List thread. 

What a world we live in....contracts offered when we don't want them to sign to get compensation. Football is a complicated beast.

[Sir Geoff]

His contract was offered to him over a year ago. He said goodbye to the fans at Huddersfield this time last year. For some reason known only to HNM and his advisor (Dad) he is still currently a Bristol City player.

[Monkeh]

If we didn't offer him a contract he can leave for free, as we have we can get compensation and a sell on fee settled by a tribunal,

Unless he fails to find another club

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

I can't see the compensation being large. While we paid a reasonable amount for him and aided his development, and that he's still young with untapped potential, it is clear from the engineering of the contract offer that we don't want him. 

[Super]

15 hours ago, Cardy said:

He’s been offered a contract for only one reason & it’s not on the basis that we want him to sign it!

So what do we want him to do with it then?

[Numero Uno]

7 minutes ago, Super said:

So what do we want him to do with it then?

If he's been offered a Contract in order to protect our position of recouping "some" fee for the lad I would have thought that we don't want him to do ANYTHING with it? Or am I missing something obvious here? I assume he's been offered a Contract that covers a worst case scenario where he says "actually I haven't been able to get anything and I'll sign it thanks" is acceptable to the club.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Numero Uno

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

If he's been offered a Contract in order to protect our position of recouping "some" fee for the lad I would have thought that we don't want him to do ANYTHING with it? Or am I missing something obvious here? I assume he's been offered a Contract where a worst case scenario where he says "actually I haven't been able to get anything and I'll sign it thanks" is acceptable to the club.

I imagine it is more “we don’t expect him to sign” than “we don’t want him to”. He’s a good player and Pearson has said in the past he rates him. I am sure the club would be very pleased if he committed his future, came back and knuckled down to compete for a first team place. It seems a very unlikely scenario though.

[Numero Uno]

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I imagine it is more “we don’t expect him to sign” than “we don’t want him to”. He’s a good player and Pearson has said in the past he rates him. I am sure the club would be very pleased if he committed his future, came back and knuckled down to compete for a first team place. It seems a very unlikely scenario though.

I get that in terms of the risk wouldn't even have been taken if the lad was absolute poison around the club and likely to cause trouble behind the scenes. Like I said a "worst case" or "least expected" scenario of him putting pen to paper on that Contract would be acceptable to the club. I suspect they highly doubt (probably 99% certain) that least expected scenario will materialise.

[Riaz]

I dont think we get compensation if he moves abroad.