The Championship..tougher next year?

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's something I've been thinking about for a while although Barnsley v Sheffield Wednesday still to decide the final entrant.

First answer would be yes. Then again I think the Reading who went down had varied good or competent players on paper, Sheffield United still had a lot of their PL players tbh or a reasonable number anyway.

Whereas the three coming down on paper look big and established clubs, this can also be a culture shock to them.

Of more interest I found was the general views. On a range of forums and platforms I've seen the Championship described as a bit poor or weak tbis year. Reading forum I read it on, Stoke certainly, a few Nottingham Forest fans on Twitter and perhaps surprisingly a BBC journo on Radio Sheffield.

He also doubled down with quite the claim.

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[OldlandReddies]

Agree that apart from the 3 coming down who are always at a massive advantage, it looks the poorest Championship line up I can remember. Those 3 additional play off places are up for grabs. 

[firstdivision]

How is it possible to judge this? What metric do we use? 
I assumed WBA, Norwich and Watford would do much better, which perhaps left an opening for lean, well-organised clubs to do well. 
 

[tin]

2022/23 was the weakest this level has been for some time IMO so I think it’ll be tougher again next year, for sure, especially if Wednesday win today. 

The three coming down are all big clubs and should all be there or thereabouts. Boro, WBA, Norwich, Watford should be up there with their resources, and Stoke are meant to have a wedge to spend this summer. 

I suspect, and @Davefevsand @Mr Popodopolous know more about FFP than me, Ipswich’s spending will mean they might try and go straight up in the next two seasons or they will surely be at risk of a breach. Plymouth might struggle. 

That said, I think we will improve as well but talk of a play-off bid might be fanciful against the clubs and their resources we’ll be up against. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by tin

[RobArnold10]

Stability is the name of the game in the Championship, if you’ve got it, you stand to do better. Luton and Coventry are prime examples this - even with Luton losing Jones. There’s some “bigger names” in there next year but all of the following are either a bit of a mess and/or have to do a lot of work on their squads:

Saints, Leeds, Leicester, Watford, WBA, Norwich, Cardiff, QPR. 
 

That’s a third. Then you’ve got teams like Blackburn and Swansea with questions over the manager staying and the fallout of that. Birmingham may have new investment but who knows. 
 

Honestly? Teams like Sunderland, Coventry, Millwall and Hull (and why not ourselves) should be looking at this and thinking hey playoffs is doable here with a few key signings. Sure, at least one of the three relegated teams will get it together as well as a couple more in my list, but I really think there’s cause for looking up and not down.

[GrahamC]

Undoubtedly.

This season, like the one 15 years ago when us & Hull got to the final, was an outlier.

2 of the 3 relegated sides weren’t serious contenders for promotion.

No way that happens again next year, Leeds are massive, Leicester have incredible assets to sell.

Definitely tougher but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t make progress.

[Baba Yaga]

After seeing Burnley lose lots of their players after getting relegated, I really couldn't see them coming back and changing their style and storming the league like they did. This time around Leeds for instance look awful in defence but by the start of next season it could all be completely different. Likewise the L1 clubs might have high pts totals this season but I wouldn't be surprised if none of them do as well as Sunderland did this season to finish 6th after winning last year's L1 play offs.

So think this is impossible to predict really, certainly someone like Nigel Pearson who is focused on improving a group of players and doesn't look into things he can't control this won't be something he spends too much time worrying about.

[spudski]

Leicester

Leeds

Southampton

Boro

Coventry

Blackburn

Sunderland

Millwall

WBA

Swansea

Watford

Preston

Norwich

Bristol City

Hull

Stoke

Birmingham

Huddersfield

Rotherham

QPR

Cardiff

Plymouth

Ipswich

Sheff Wed/Barnsley

When you read it in black and white, it certainly looks a lot stronger on paper. 

 

[David Brent]

Given the teams who finished in and around the playoffs, I’d say it’s the strongest championship for a while.

[Sir Geoff]

The strength of the league will be worrying fans (and owners) of the likes of Norwich, Watford, WBA more than us imo. Whilst we would happily sneak into 6th they need promotion before the money runs out. (It already has for WBA). 

[spudski]

Some interesting stats on here.

Leicester relegated with the highest wages in Prem history. 

 

[Johnny Musicworks]

Given the fact that it looks a stronger division then that can also mean that it’s harder for one or two teams to run away with the division which I feel would benefit us. There could be much more evenly spread competition for all top 6 places. I think we are one of the few teams who have a good potential for improvement whilst many who challenged for top 6 this season will have tougher financial restrictions. 

[cidercity1987]

Yes more challenging particularly as upper half sized clubs like us and Stoke are emerging from Covid financial problems.

Wednesday are my favourites for relegation if they come up though with that old squad unless they invest substantially

[Mr Popodopolous]

Stoke have got away with more than  they should, I'd have referred them much like Everton in the PL have been. Just a matter of scale.

I digress, it could be stronger it is hard to say. Stoke seemingly going biggidh, although some clubs who made the playoffs could lose significant loanees, I say could because Diallo surprisingly could yet return to Sunderland on loan.

Sheffield Wednesday hmm if they come up, I'd say they have rersinrd more of it than they realistically could have expected on relegation. Otoh not exactly young and dynamic.

@spudski worth considering that it contained £20-25m in European Revenue in 2021-22 which won't have been a factor this time. My best guess from not 2021-22 to 2023-24 but 2022-23 to 2023-24 is £50-70m.

[chinapig]

@WarksRobinhas raised the issue of Leicester's finances in the Championship FFP thread. They are not going to be in a great starting position even with player sales.

Do they try to fix the finances or do they gamble on going straight back up and potentially risk the club's future?

[Davefevs]

I’ll start to think about the strength of the Championship when I see the kind of transfer business done.

From the relegated teams, we don’t even know who will be in charge of each of them.

From the promoted teams, how will they strengthen, Plymouth especially who relied on loans.  I get the feeling with Ipswich that they think their squad is ready to compete (I disagree).  I don’t see Barnsley having much clout next season, and Wednesday are looking a “bit old” and probably hamstrung a bit financially to improve much.

The likes of Watford, Norwich and West Brom don’t look in a great place.  At Norwich, golden-boy Webber (I liked him btw) seems to have fallen off his pedestal.

Can Sunderland, Coventry and Millwall go again?  Can Cov hold on to Gyokeres and Hamer…and replace their loaned defence?

Can Boro replace their star-loans?

Its far too early to say!

[George Rs]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll start to think about the strength of the Championship when I see the kind of transfer business done.

From the relegated teams, we don’t even know who will be in charge of each of them.

From the promoted teams, how will they strengthen, Plymouth especially who relied on loans.  I get the feeling with Ipswich that they think their squad is ready to compete (I disagree).  I don’t see Barnsley having much clout next season, and Wednesday are looking a “bit old” and probably hamstrung a bit financially to improve much.

The likes of Watford, Norwich and West Brom don’t look in a great place.  At Norwich, golden-boy Webber (I liked him btw) seems to have fallen off his pedestal.

Can Sunderland, Coventry and Millwall go again?  Can Cov hold on to Gyokeres and Hamer…and replace their loaned defence?

Can Boro replace their star-loans?

Its far too early to say!

Agreed that not much can be said until the transfers window closes or at least until we know who is managing every team.

But I agree with previous comments that on paper this coming season looks like a very competitive one. Luckily football is played on grass .

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll start to think about the strength of the Championship when I see the kind of transfer business done.

From the relegated teams, we don’t even know who will be in charge of each of them.

From the promoted teams, how will they strengthen, Plymouth especially who relied on loans.  I get the feeling with Ipswich that they think their squad is ready to compete (I disagree).  I don’t see Barnsley having much clout next season, and Wednesday are looking a “bit old” and probably hamstrung a bit financially to improve much.

The likes of Watford, Norwich and West Brom don’t look in a great place.  At Norwich, golden-boy Webber (I liked him btw) seems to have fallen off his pedestal.

Can Sunderland, Coventry and Millwall go again?  Can Cov hold on to Gyokeres and Hamer…and replace their loaned defence?

Can Boro replace their star-loans?

Its far too early to say!

Exactly names count for nothing yet! 

[reddoh]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Exactly names count for nothing yet! 

Dracula ? 

[LondonBristolian]

I cannot remember the last time there was a Championship season that was not described as the weakest in years. If the relegated teams storm it, it is because the division is weak. If the relegated teams struggle, the division is weak because they were not good enough. Promoted teams doing well means the division is weak because they would not have done well otherwise. Promoted teams struggling means they have not added to the division so the division is weak. A small team overachieving proves the division is weak because how else could they have done well? A small team underachieving means they were not good enough so the division is weak.

So yes, the division is weak because it always is. It is much weaker than last year which, at the time, was much weaker than the year before. Next year we will be talking about how much weaker the division was than this year when even teams like Luton and Coventry were good enough for the play offs and pretending nobody ever thought it was weak this year .

Edited May 29, 2023 by LondonBristolian

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said:

I cannot remember the last time there was a Championship season that was not described as the weakest in years. If the relegated teams storm it, it is because the division is weak. If the relegated teams struggle, the division is weak because they were not good enough. Promoted teams doing well means the division is weak because they would not have done well otherwise. Promoted teams struggling means they have not added to the division so the division is weak. A small team overachieving proves the division is weak because how else could they have done well? A small team underachieving means they were not good enough so the division is weak.

So yes, the division is weak because it always is. It is much weaker than last year which, at the time, was much weaker than the year before. Next year we will be talking about how much weaker the division was than this year when even teams like Luton and Coventry were good enough for the play offs and pretending nobody ever thought it was weak this year .

Put it on a t shirt.

[redkev]

Not impressed with Wednesday , unles they invest fairly heavily think it could be a long season for them , so reliant on Barry bannon, 

dont get hyped up with massive club / massive fan base as Roy Keane said supporters can’t come on the pitch and score goals or defend set pieces , 

also watching Leeds yesterday they look poor , Leicester will lose a fair few players soton have a very young squad ( albeit I think they will be top 10 ) Plymouth lots of loanees don’t know much about Ipswich ( not interested ) 

very open league next year me thinks 

[Andy082005]

8 hours ago, OldlandReddies said:

Agree that apart from the 3 coming down who are always at a massive advantage, it looks the poorest Championship line up I can remember. Those 3 additional play off places are up for grabs. 

…are you mad?

[Numero Uno]

The Championship next season will be the same as it’s always been. Tough league where everyone can beat everyone. Not sure how you can judge the strength until we know who is playing for who.

[REDOXO]

43 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The Championship next season will be the same as it’s always been. Tough league where everyone can beat everyone. Not sure how you can judge the strength until we know who is playing for who.

I don’t understand why that’s not obvious to so many!

[Dolman_Stand]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

The Championship next season will be the same as it’s always been. Tough league where everyone can beat everyone. Not sure how you can judge the strength until we know who is playing for who.

You are probably right in terms of the overall standard of players and teams on the pitch but it definitely feels like the strength of the clubs is as good as I can remember in terms of history, stadium size, average attendance etc. Luton, Burnley, Wigan and Blackpool are "smaller" than Leeds, Leicester, Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday that's a fact. Sheff Utd and Southampton is much of a muchness and Reading are arguably "bigger" than Plymouth and plenty of others have parachute payments so overall it should be harder to compete as a middle of the road club like us.

[Fammyfan]

On paper it looks a stronger league next season.

However, on doing a calculation of the points taken against the teams departing the league, I make it a total of 10 points from 12 games (0.83 per game) which is a very poor return and considered relegation form.

This also means that we took 49 points from the other 34 games (1.44 per game) which is the form of a team finishing 9th/10th.

Glad to see the back of the departing clubs and confident we’ll gain a better return from the clubs entering the championship next season.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Fammyfan

[Dr Balls]

Of the relegated teams, unlikely thought it may seem given this season, I actually think that Southampton are probably best placed. They aren’t going to lose masses of players like Leicester, or have all of their other financial concerns, they have a lot of decent youngsters, and they have already appointed a manager who has experience at this level in Russell Martin.

As for Leeds, no one knows who is going to own them let alone manage them by the beginning of next season, and they need a clear out of some players, while Leicester are going to solve their wages problem by many of their best players leaving at the end of their contracts, which is a disaster from a wider financial perspective.

From those coming up from League 1, Plymouth don’t look like they are going to invest much, Ipswich will have Ashton collecting players like it was going out of fashion and hang the finances, so might do something but could just as easily blow up, while Wednesday have a lot of older players, some of whom may not be quite so effective back in the Championship. And I don’t think Darren Moore is actually that good a manager.

As for the rest of the clubs, it will be the usual issues of which of your best players can you keep (or your manager) which new talents can you unearth, and then having some luck with injuries etc during the season. I expect the Championship to be as gloriously unpredictable as ever next season, and that predicting the top 6, let alone getting them in the right order, is fiendishly difficult, and should come with odds of something like 500/1.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Dr Balls

[downendcity]

14 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

…are you mad?

To quote Edmund Blackadder...

Who'd notice another madman around here?

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'd wonder a little but less about Southampton and their financials. Probably not a lot to worry about but.

£15.4m pre tax loss in 2021-22 despite and inclusive of a £31.2m Profit on Disposal of Players.

Less prize money for sure from finishing bottom, firing Hassenhuttl, compensation to hire and fire Jones, more cash outlay with Martin compensation. No notable sales last year but £100-120m spent on fees.

Then again a wage bill of £113m (2021-22) which will include reductions in relegation. Maybe nothing out of the ordinary.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous