spudski Posted May 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said: But if it's a greater achievement to do it then how is it a greater failure to not achieve it? By comparing ourselves with the other teams who haven't achieved it, and those lesser ones who have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted May 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Ok is Forest getting out of old Div2 any harder / easier than Leicester getting out of the Championship prior to their next success? Both backed heavily, one by the local “butcher”, the other by a less-local “butcher”! Who knows...using one team against another is just one example. You might enjoy this... https://totalfootballanalysis.com/article/how-difficult-is-it-to-climb-through-the-english-football-league-system Edited May 31, 2023 by spudski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 Some are saying Millwall in the comments of the OP… Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Yeah but that's all it is with Preston - history. Tom Finney etc. So yeah, Preston were (past tense) a bigger club. History is all it is with us too, mind. 1970s and 1900s. So you forget the past and compare the here and now = we're bigger than Preston. Huddersfield were massively successful in the 30s... who'd consider them a big club?? etc etc I agree but with nothing else to cling on to there’s history . We’re bigger because we get a few thousand more each week ? Huddersfield have been in the prem recently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, MarcusX said: We’ve played in the top flight, nothing story. Football didn’t start in 1992 Maybe read the title again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 24 minutes ago, spudski said: Who knows...using one team against another is just one example. You might enjoy this... https://totalfootballanalysis.com/article/how-difficult-is-it-to-climb-through-the-english-football-league-system I guess that’s my point, judging across eras is difficult. I tend to take the simplistic route…all eras have their own nuances so I treat them equally, same with players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 Cry me a river! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 Just now, And Its Smith said: Cry me a (south of the) river! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 It is just as accurate to say that the teams mentioned haven't played in the top flight since 1992 and you can probably add a shed load more that have played in the EPL but haven't played there for decades. Lots of people falling for the media and marketing that football began in 1992. Load of bollox. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said: Huddersfield have been in the prem recently So have Swindon Town! Bournemouth. Brentford. Bloody Luton. Come on, mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 hours ago, spudski said: ...it's pretty grim when you see it in black and white. Tick Luton off now. You can tick off Wimbledon too - they were in the premier league for eight seasons from 1992 to 2000 - your graphic seems a bit flawed ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 Just you wait till this time next season we’ll be crossing ourselves off that graphic Believe!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 I went for Preston because of their history, because we haven't finished above them for years and, oh yes, they're the team against which we attracted our record crowd. We might be a bigger City but they are definitely a bigger club. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 45 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: You can tick off Wimbledon too - they were in the premier league for eight seasons from 1992 to 2000 - your graphic seems a bit flawed ... And MK Dons as well - two for the price of one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 I remember watching The Big Match when City made their glorious return to the top flight in August 1976 and when Geoff Merrick led the team out onto the pitch at Highbury Brian Moore said 'It's been 65 years since Bristol City were last in Division One.' I recall thinking what a bloody long time that was. Yet it is now 43 years since we were last in the top flight. It's very close to the 65 years. Indeed, the 65 years, 1911-1976 included the two world wars when the Football League was suspended, so really that's about 54 seasons it took City to regain top flight status. So we have about 11 seasons to get promoted to the Prem before this current stretch will be longer than that incredibly long 65 years! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 Appreciate the ‘football started before 92’ view and it’s very valid, but this is a metric that’s going to be used. Needs sorting. Top flight even for just 1 year changes everything - financially and in terms of the external view of our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl Visiting Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 Outrageous Wimbledon have been included in that tweet. Got to be Preston, you and Millwall as the top 3 hasn't it? Sheffield United the smallest that have played in it obviously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said: I went for Preston because of their history, because we haven't finished above them for years and, oh yes, they're the team against which we attracted our record crowd. We might be a bigger City but they are definitely a bigger club. Meh depends on how far you want to go back, you justly say Royal Engineers are bigger than them ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted May 31, 2023 Report Share Posted May 31, 2023 42 minutes ago, Owl Visiting said: Outrageous Wimbledon have been included in that tweet. Got to be Preston, you and Millwall as the top 3 hasn't it? Sheffield United the smallest that have played in it obviously. Plymouth are bigger than Millwall and Preston. Just so far from everyone else they get forgotten.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 2 hours ago, The Bard said: Plymouth are bigger than Millwall and Preston. Just so far from everyone else they get forgotten.. Plymouth are not bigger than PNE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 7 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said: I went for Preston because of their history, because we haven't finished above them for years and, oh yes, they're the team against which we attracted our record crowd. We might be a bigger City but they are definitely a bigger club. Slightly bigger maybe. The statement, and I appreciate that it isn't the OP's, would be far less irritating if, instead of delineating this against the beginning of a commercial enterprise and the root of all evil in English football, it was: Which current League clubs have not appeared in the top division this century? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterstoke toad Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 The potential of this club is absolutely huge . The ambition and the way the club has been ran however is shocking . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 11 hours ago, spudski said: By comparing ourselves with the other teams who haven't achieved it, and those lesser ones who have. This is so arbitrary though. Swindon and Oldham have both played Premier League football, are they therefore clubs to seek to emulate? Or do people only focus on recent success stories such as Brentford and Brighton? Luton helped form the damn thing, got themselves relegated before it started, and have only now managed to get back there having plumbed the depths of the professional game in the process. Is that a dream timeline? It's really hard to get promoted. Not doing so doesn't point to some overarching failure, nor to this mythical "Bristol mindset" we hear about. It's just not happened yet, but it will. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) Whichever way you slice it, for a city like Bristol to have not had a top division for over 40 years is shocking. Preston is a one-horse town compared to Bristol. People were talking about this even before we got into the old first division - remember, we’ve only been in the top division for four of the last hundred years. Shocking really. Edited June 1, 2023 by The Dolman Pragmatist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 51 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: This is so arbitrary though. Swindon and Oldham have both played Premier League football, are they therefore clubs to seek to emulate? Or do people only focus on recent success stories such as Brentford and Brighton? Luton helped form the damn thing, got themselves relegated before it started, and have only now managed to get back there having plumbed the depths of the professional game in the process. Is that a dream timeline? It's really hard to get promoted. Not doing so doesn't point to some overarching failure, nor to this mythical "Bristol mindset" we hear about. It's just not happened yet, but it will. Im not disagreeing with that. Look at the data link I posted up further up the post. It shows how hard it is for teams to stay in the Prem once promoted. This is purely about who hasn't been promoted into it yet. Not how long you stay in it. It's fair to say when you look at that list we are arguably the strongest overall apart from Preston not to have made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciderhead433 Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 13 hours ago, spudski said: ...it's pretty grim when you see it in black and white. Tick Luton off now. Should have been clubs never in the top division or is the Prem the be-all and end-all? The Prem is all about money 8 clubs that I know of on that list have been in Div. 1 one P.N.E. have a great history in the early days. Why not just erase football history prior to the Premiership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Ciderhead433 said: Should have been clubs never in the top division or is the Prem the be-all and end-all? The Prem is all about money 8 clubs that I know of on that list have been in Div. 1 one P.N.E. have a great history in the early days. Why not just erase football history prior to the Premiership? Ok we all get it...kinnel...why so much hostility over a post about the Prem? Not aimed at you...but in general. We all know football existed before the Prem. No one is saying it's not. The OP is purely about those who haven't made the top division since it became the Prem. Just see it as that... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 In defense of the thread (and @spudski) I thought it was interesting and it's a shame it has mostly become a pretty tiresome/repetitive argument about semantics. Yes we know football existed before 1992 but you also have to accept getting to the top division now is a vastly different prospect to before, in terms of getting there, staying there, and the situation when you come back down. With the investment we've had and where we've been in the divisions it's pretty shocking the closest we've got is one playoff final and that's it. There are a few teams on that list we're comparable to... Even though a lot of us would like to think we're bigger than them... But not too many. I do feel we're getting closer now though, so if we're still on the list in 10 years that'll be (even more) ridiculous. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, spudski said: Ok we all get it...kinnel...why so much hostility over a post about the Prem? Not aimed at you...but in general. We all know football existed before the Prem. No one is saying it's not. The OP is purely about those who haven't made the top division since it became the Prem. Just see it as that... It is genuinely irritating though, in the way of one of those QI type questions which hang upon a technicality: "When did WWII end?" 1990 when Germany reunified and so was able to sign the peace treaty. The Premiership is just a new name for the first division, the Championship for the second. Records and questions shouldn't be differentiating purely because of such renames, like the Premeirship all time top scorer tables which slice out of history anyone scoring loads of goals before the rebrand. Alan Smith was the top scorer in the top division in 1990/91 with 22 goals. If only he had waited for a few years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990–91_Football_League_First_Division Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said: It's really hard to get promoted. Not doing so doesn't point to some overarching failure, nor to this mythical "Bristol mindset" we hear about. It's just not happened yet, but it will. This is surprisingly vague coming from yerself, if I may say. "It's just not happened yet" ? If there were such a thing what might our expected promotion (xP) be at this level? With one exception in 40 plus years, we just are never anywhere near. "It's really hard to get promoted" and yet, every year, three clubs are promoted. In fact, they must and inevitably will be. Many years, a club without PP manages it. In fairness though, it is really hard to get promoted from this level without PP. The thing about us is, we can spend years at this level and never be anywhere near, not have a chance. You do not need PP to be "there or thereabouts" and if you can finish 6th then you have a shot, a chance. Under SL we have had one such shot in umpteen seasons, that surely to goodness is an "overarching failure" on his part? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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