Swansea City club shop

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The China sentence

the banks sentence

the link to the post office

i could probably make an argument for the other sentence too, but I can’t as my chisel is blunt from trying to type my response on my stone tablet.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4

https://www.smallworldfs.com/en/blog/how-much-money-can-i-get-in-cash-from-a-bank-in-uk#:~:text=The bank usually places a,giving any notice in advance.

https://www.freeths.co.uk/legal-services/business-services/post-office-scandal-group-actions/#:~:text=Over a 14-year period,computerised point of sale system.

 

 

 

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, chinapig said:

China subjects its citizens to extraordinary surveillance and control, enabled by technology. Failure to have enough so called social credits for instance could indeed lead to loss of your bank account - or far worse.

Indeed it is...and each state has its own laws on it. 

In many places facial recognition is needed to move around town. 

And if you fail to pay a fine and such like...they put your face up on billboards to embarrass you. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4

https://www.smallworldfs.com/en/blog/how-much-money-can-i-get-in-cash-from-a-bank-in-uk#:~:text=The bank usually places a,giving any notice in advance.

https://www.freeths.co.uk/legal-services/business-services/post-office-scandal-group-actions/#:~:text=Over a 14-year period,computerised point of sale system.

 

 

 

Think you're conflating multiple issues there tbh.

I'm not keen on a cashless society or the mad digitisation but feels a bit of thin end of the wedge yo suggest that one leads to the other.

Clearly in the wrong hands, some negative outcomes will be possible, a risk factor if the technology is there to bring it about.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[bristolborn_and_red]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Jeez, you do love a nice convoluted conspiracy theory and linkage of random stuff.  

Wow. Making light of all those postmasters who had their lives ruined, ended up in prison or committed suicide.

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, TheReds said:

What about people who need to really look after what they spend. It will be guaranteed that some people will spend more than they anticipated to by going cashless because they simply won't stay on top of what they are spending, and then could easily get into debt. If you go out with x amount that you can/are willing to spend and it's in cash then you at least know where you stand and can control it better. Paying by card just isn't the same when it comes to restricting your spending for many people.

I definitely do get why businesses prefer contactless though, just wish the ones who are one way or the other would be a bit more flexible and maybe even have the "we prefer contactless or cash" type sign to encourage more people to what the business wants.

People used that excuse when cash machines were introduced. Access to easy money, easy to go into debt. Sorry but it's up to the individual to keep tabs of their own finances. 

[Sir Geoff]

33 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Behavioral Finance/Economics has been around for a good while. Thaler finally got the Nobel Economics gong in 2017 for his work on it. The point being suggestion is everywhere and now we are all on these things tapping keys that will lead us to places that tell you what you want. 
 

How you settle up is not the problem!

On another note, it looks to me as though the bloke from Swansea can’t be sued! I’d love to watch them bring that case, although a business will eventually!

No point Swansea wasting money suing him for something he paid for. It's not theft so the police won't be interested.

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Think you're conflating multiple issues there tbh.

I'm not keen on a cashless society or the mad digitisation but feels a bit of thin end of the wedge yo suggest that one leads to the other.

Clearly in the wrong hands, some negative outcomes will be possible, a risk factor if the technology is there to bring it about.

The wrong hands being the banks. 

We rely on them, but they do their darndest to make money from each transaction, and charge extra to companies that use cash and want to bank it. 

It's drip drip drip...things changing for the worse imo. 

[REDOXO]

9 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

No point Swansea wasting money suing him for something he paid for. It's not theft so the police won't be interested.

The first post stated that was exactly what they were thinking of doing. The videos up the thread were interesting. 
 

A crime and suing people are pretty mutually exclusive. 
 

A case like this will be brought at some point. Cash is obviously not king anymore in Swansea.  

Edited July 24, 2023 by REDOXO

[IAmNick]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

 

I have a £50 banknote in my pocket. Going to a restaurant and paying for dinner with it. The restaurant owner then uses the note to pay for the laundry. The laundry owner then uses the note to pay the barber. The barber will then use the note to pay for shopping. After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a £50 value, which has fulfilled its purpose to everyone who used it for payment and the bank has jumped dry from every cash payment transaction made. BUT IF I go to a restaurant and pay digitally via Card, - the bank fees for my payment transaction charged to the seller are 3%, so around £1.50 ( and so will be the fee of £1.50 for each further payment transaction ) -for the owner re laundry or - payments of the owner of the laundry shop, - or payments of the barber etc..... Therefore, after 30 transactions, the initial £50 will exist at only £5, and the remaining £45 has become the property of the bank … thanks to all of the digital transactions and fees!

 

That maths is absolutely awful. After 30 transactions it wouldn't be £5!

24 minutes ago, spudski said:

The wrong hands being the banks. 

We rely on them, but they do their darndest to make money from each transaction, and charge extra to companies that use cash and want to bank it. 

It's drip drip drip...things changing for the worse imo. 

Companies making money when people use their services?

I'm not sure that's a new thing.

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

That maths is absolutely awful. After 30 transactions it wouldn't be £5!

Companies making money when people use their services?

I'm not sure that's a new thing.

Banks charging companies to go contactless, and for every transaction, and charging the same companies fees to take any cash. 

The banks have made it harder for cash to be used. 

It's their way or the highway. 

It's the same as banks providing for free, self service tills with no cash option in some shops. 

They push their agenda of making it harder or no option to use cash. 

 Anyone who can't see that must be blind to what's going on. 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bristolborn_and_red said:

Wow. Making light of all those postmasters who had their lives ruined, ended up in prison or committed suicide.

No, I’m not at all, so don’t suggest I am.  I know one of them as it goes…not one who tragically committed suicide, thankfully.  It’s a tragedy.  It’s beyond that, it’s an effing disgusting cover-up.

But Spud linking it to his other arguments is complete horse shit!

[ZiderEyed]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

China subjects its citizens to extraordinary surveillance and control, enabled by technology. Failure to have enough so called social credits for instance could indeed lead to loss of your bank account - or far worse.

Waffle.

[spudski]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, I’m not at all, so don’t suggest I am.  I know one of them as it goes…not one who tragically committed suicide, thankfully.  It’s a tragedy.  It’s beyond that, it’s an effing disgusting cover-up.

But Spud linking it to his other arguments is complete horse shit!

I was pointing out that technology fails. 

And it ruined lives. 

The Post Office being an establishment that uses money, has savings accounts that many people rely on. 

It's an establishment recognised like any bank. 

If it can happen to the post office , it can happen to a bank or any other establishment that relies on technology to work. 

 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

I was pointing out that technology fails. 

And it ruined lives. 

The Post Office being an establishment that uses money, has savings accounts that many people rely on. 

It's an establishment recognised like any bank. 

If it can happen to the post office , it can happen to a bank or any other establishment that relies on technology to work. 

 

Pretty much everything requires technology to work these days.  It’s supposedly called progress.  Some of it you’ll like, some of it you won’t.

but….

You basically compared a standard IT “outage” and our reliance on IT….to what happened to a Post-Office computer system coding error, subsequent cover-up and in the meantime, wrongful imprisonment of PO workers / some who tragically took their own lives.

Thats one helluva link imho.

But, I’ve had my input to this thread now, it’s all yours now. Ta.

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Pretty much everything requires technology to work these days.  It’s supposedly called progress.  Some of it you’ll like, some of it you won’t.

but….

You basically compared a standard IT “outage” and our reliance on IT….to what happened to a Post-Office computer system coding error, subsequent cover-up and in the meantime, wrongful imprisonment of PO workers / some who tragically took their own lives.

Thats one helluva link imho.

But, I’ve had my input to this thread now, it’s all yours now. Ta.

You seem to forget the topic of discussion. Completely missing the point and twisting it. 

If you keep cash and technology you have a back up when the technology fails. That's the point. 

We rely on money, be it cash or in digital form.

You also ignored the proof I gave to what you claim as conspiracy. It's happening already. Which others have backed up

In doing so you've made yourself look like a right idiot who mocked someone, and then got proven wrong. 

I enjoy the majority of your football posts, but sometimes you can come across as a right know it all, who has an opinion on every thread and very condescending. All hail the self proclaimed King of otib

 

 

[stephenkibby.]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

People used that excuse when cash machines were introduced. Access to easy money, easy to go into debt. Sorry but it's up to the individual to keep tabs of their own finances. 

Yeah that's fair but i  hate the card only. Went to a funeral and wake on Tuesday and spent on my card twice what i would have if it was cash in my pocket.

No doubt Sir Geoff you would have controlled your spending better than me. 

 

[Sir Geoff]

12 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Yeah that's fair but i  hate the card only. Went to a funeral and wake on Tuesday and spent on my card twice what i would have if it was cash in my pocket.

No doubt Sir Geoff you would have controlled your spending better than me. 

 

I would but it helps that I have a Starling account that shows immediately what I have spent with an instant alert. So it is easier to keep tabs on expenditure. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

No point Swansea wasting money suing him for something he paid for. It's not theft so the police won't be interested.

Indeed.

The legal definition of theft is quite clear.

From the circumstances of the event described, there was no theft.

[PHILINFRANCE]

52 minutes ago, spudski said:

You seem to forget the topic of discussion. Completely missing the point and twisting it. 

If you keep cash and technology you have a back up when the technology fails. That's the point. 

We rely on money, be it cash or in digital form.

You also ignored the proof I gave to what you claim as conspiracy. It's happening already. Which others have backed up

In doing so you've made yourself look like a right idiot who mocked someone, and then got proven wrong. 

I enjoy the majority of your football posts, but sometimes you can come across as a right know it all, who has an opinion on every thread and very condescending. All hail the self proclaimed King of otib

 

 

This is not my argument, but, if I may say so, you are being a bit silly now.

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

Waffle.

Your point being? The social credit system with associated rewards and punishments certainly exists. It's a little piecemeal now but the plan is to have a comprehensive national system. That requires technology, in which China is of course advanced.

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, spudski said:

You seem to forget the topic of discussion. Completely missing the point and twisting it. 

If you keep cash and technology you have a back up when the technology fails. That's the point. 

We rely on money, be it cash or in digital form.

You also ignored the proof I gave to what you claim as conspiracy. It's happening already. Which others have backed up

In doing so you've made yourself look like a right idiot who mocked someone, and then got proven wrong. 

I enjoy the majority of your football posts, but sometimes you can come across as a right know it all, who has an opinion on every thread and very condescending. All hail the self proclaimed King of otib

 

 

My contribution earlier in this thread said that organisations have to bear in mind the costs of handling cash, amongst other reasons.  Some of these organisations have moved away from it and have gone card / online only.  That’s their choice.  They also need to understand the impacts of their strategy if it’s reliant on technology and it fails.

You’re the one who dragged the thread off onto a data, IT, controlling us / what we do, narrative.

I just thought that a strange direction to take this thread in relation to Swansea’s commercial decision to no longer take cash.

If you think I’ve made myself look a right idiot, so be it.  I’ll get over it.

Have an opinion? Yep.  Like discussing football?  Yep

Self-proclaimed King of OTIB? Really?  Don’t think so.

[spudski]

28 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

This is not my argument, but, if I may say so, you are being a bit silly now.

Yes you are probably right...I got dragged down to his level of condicending comments and taking the piss.  

Ok for the OTIB 'clik' to do...but not others. 

I should know better

[stephenkibby.]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My contribution earlier in this thread said that organisations have to bear in mind the costs of handling cash, amongst other reasons.  Some of these organisations have moved away from it and have gone card / online only.  That’s their choice.  They also need to understand the impacts of their strategy if it’s reliant on technology and it fails.

You’re the one who dragged the thread off onto a data, IT, controlling us / what we do, narrative.

I just thought that a strange direction to take this thread in relation to Swansea’s commercial decision to no longer take cash.

If you think I’ve made myself look a right idiot, so be it.  I’ll get over it.

Have an opinion? Yep.  Like discussing football?  Yep

Self-proclaimed King of OTIB? Really?  Don’t think so.

Anyway boys going to the game tomorrow, cash in my back pocket and the card in reserve.

The Mrs will say for the 1.000th time " Make sure you don't lose it".

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes you are probably right...I got dragged down to his level of condicending comments and taking the piss.  

Ok for the OTIB 'clik' to do...but not others. 

I should know better

This is an interesting response, although, if I was going to accuse an adversary of being condescending, I would probably make an effort to ensure my spelling was correct.

[PHILINFRANCE]

On the subject of cash/cashless society, I must confess that I tend slightly towards @spudski’s view.

I met up with one of my daughters in central Paris last year for a quick chat and coffee, and when I tried to pay (just under €4) I realised that, apart from a few coins, I only had a €50 note.

Not to worry, said my daughter, I’ll pay with my credit card!

Now, for me, settling a €4 tab with a credit card was astonishing, although my daughter assured me it is common practice.

[TheReds]

6 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

On the subject of cash/cashless society, I must confess that I tend slightly towards @spudski’s view.

I met up with one of my daughters in central Paris last year for a quick chat and coffee, and when I tried to pay (just under €4) I realised that, apart from a few coins, I only had a €50 note.

Not to worry, said my daughter, I’ll pay with my credit card!

Now, for me, settling a €4 tab with a credit card was astonishing, although my daughter assured me it is common practice.

Thinly veiled "I carry €50 notes" 

[PHILINFRANCE]

Further to my earlier post concerning the use of credit cards to settle small amounts, I do recall paying for a €1 baguette by credit card during the COVID pandemic, although that was somewhat exceptional.

Nevertheless, there are several fruit and vegetable stalls in my local market that remain ‘cash only’ and, on more than one occasion, I have had to pop down to the local cashpoint to get some money.

To be fair, though, the stall holders I frequent (mainly Maghrébins, it must be said) often tell me not to worry and to pay them next time!

Does this sort of trust still exist in the UK?

Serious question.

[Sir Geoff]

29 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Anyway boys going to the game tomorrow, cash in my back pocket and the card in reserve.

The Mrs will say for the 1.000th time " Make sure you don't lose it".

Make sure you remember your paper ticket. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

8 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Thinly veiled "I carry €50 notes" 

I am not sure how cash points in the UK operate now, but in France my bank gives me the option as to what denomination I want my notes.

I am an occasional visitor, and usually withdraw €100/200 at a time, normally requesting one or two €50 notes, which normally lasts a month or so.

[IAmNick]

13 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Further to my earlier post concerning the use of credit cards to settle small amounts, I do recall paying for a €1 baguette by credit card during the COVID pandemic, although that was somewhat exceptional.

Nevertheless, there are several fruit and vegetable stalls in my local market that remain ‘cash only’ and, on more than one occasion, I have had to pop down to the local cashpoint to get some money.

To be fair, though, the stall holders I frequent (mainly Maghrébins, it must be said) often tell me not to worry and to pay them next time!

Does this sort of trust still exist in the UK?

Serious question.

Yep. There's a little convenience store on West St in BS3 I go in quite often, I think their minimum card spend is £2 or £3. If I don't have quite enough change and it's under the limit they regularly let me drop a pound or whatever in the next time I'm there.

Most people are pretty trusting in my experience - and most people are trustworthy in response (or visa versa).

Edited July 24, 2023 by IAmNick