Recruitment - is ours really as good as we think?

[Dr Balls]

Just watching the EFL highlights and a few things are becoming clear.

Other clubs at our level are recruiting well from Europe, while we seem to only recruit from Championship or League 1. Of the 2 teams we have played this season at home, it’s arguable that Preston’s best player was a new recruit from Denmark, while Birmingham have brought in a Japanese international from Belgium, who scored their first goal.

Other clubs are recruiting players with experience, while we only seem to want youngsters with potential. Ramsay might be an extreme example at Cardiff, but others are recruiting for now, rather than hoping for the future.

Other clubs are taking players on loan from the Premier League, but under Pearson we never do. Yes they may not be “our” youngsters that we are developing, but with the best will in the world, Premier League youngsters on loan are likely to be better than Academy players that we are having to throw in because we don’t have anyone else. 

I know that there has been a bit of a “love-in” for Tinman and his recruitment over the summer, but when seen against the players brought in by other teams, ours looks a lot less impressive.

[B-Rizzle]

Think the Europe point is a good one. We never seemed to recruit from Europe, then we had a bit of a foray under LJ which largely didn’t work out and now we’ve reverted to domestic recruitment only.

Think we’re missing a trick tbh when you look at other teams in the league.

[Mendip City]

1 minute ago, B-Rizzle said:

Think the Europe point is a good one. We never seemed to recruit from Europe, then we had a bit of a foray under LJ which largely didn’t work out and now we’ve reverted to domestic recruitment only.

Think we’re missing a trick tbh when you look at other teams in the league.

Agree. Do we have scouts in Europe I wonder? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

PL loanees and or one or two foreign players could be worth a look for sure.

[tin]

It’s pretty clear we are recruiting players who a) have potential and we can develop to sell on for a profit, and b) will fit into our strict wage structure. That limits who we can realistically target  and clips the wings of the recruitment team IMO.

Generally, we’ve done that pretty well. As someone else said, Nige has generated £35m in transfer fees in 2023 and spent about £5m so I’m not sure that’s a fair stick to bash the recruitment team with. But I share the frustrations that we should be aiming higher, and that’s down to SL loosening the purse strings. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Mendip City said:

Agree. Do we have scouts in Europe I wonder? 

Closest we had was Mathieu Louis Jean who had experience of English football with Nottingham Forest and France of course being French.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Think the Europe point is a good one. We never seemed to recruit from Europe, then we had a bit of a foray under LJ which largely didn’t work out and now we’ve reverted to domestic recruitment only.

Think we’re missing a trick tbh when you look at other teams in the league.

Also don't think we had a manager who would get the best out of a range of them. Shape, man management, tactics etc.

[B-Rizzle]

3 minutes ago, tin said:

It’s pretty clear we are recruiting players who a) have potential and we can develop to sell on for a profit, and b) will fit into our strict wage structure. That limits who we can realistically target  and clips the wings of the recruitment team IMO.

Generally, we’ve done that pretty well. As someone else said, Nige has generated £35m in transfer fees in 2023 and spent about £5m so I’m not sure that’s a fair stick to bash the recruitment team with. But I share the frustrations that we should be aiming higher, and that’s down to SL loosening the purse strings. 

That’s fine but that policy suggests that our wage budget is significantly lower than rivals which I don’t think is true (apart from parachute payment teams).

If other teams can recruit from abroad to fit their wage structure, why can’t we?

I do accept the clubs stance on prem loans being too costly though but I’m not sure I quite buy into the rest of their narrative. 
Having sold Scott for £25m, we should have enough free money to replace him with someone who is more than an academy prospect.

Having offered Kalas a contract that wasn’t signed (yet), we should have budget for another centre half.

[Northern Red]

8 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Agree. Do we have scouts in Europe I wonder? 

I don't know that we have anyone specifically working for us, but we do have people that we can use to "get eyes" on a player in person when needed 

[Better Red]

11 minutes ago, tin said:

It’s pretty clear we are recruiting players who a) have potential and we can develop to sell on for a profit, and b) will fit into our strict wage structure. That limits who we can realistically target  and clips the wings of the recruitment team IMO.

Generally, we’ve done that pretty well. As someone else said, Nige has generated £35m in transfer fees in 2023 and spent about £5m so I’m not sure that’s a fair stick to bash the recruitment team with. But I share the frustrations that we should be aiming higher, and that’s down to SL loosening the purse strings. 

£5m ? Nearer £10m with signing on fees etc… 

We have spent all the Seymenyo money already

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

8 minutes ago, tin said:

It’s pretty clear we are recruiting players who a) have potential and we can develop to sell on for a profit, and b) will fit into our strict wage structure. That limits who we can realistically target  and clips the wings of the recruitment team IMO.

Generally, we’ve done that pretty well. As someone else said, Nige has generated £35m in transfer fees in 2023 and spent about £5m so I’m not sure that’s a fair stick to bash the recruitment team with. But I share the frustrations that we should be aiming higher, and that’s down to SL loosening the purse strings. 

FFS.

At least give the credit where the credit is due. 

Nige DID NOT recruit Scott or Semenyo- Tinnion did!

NP has not generated £35million- the club has through the Academy- both these players were up and coming stars before NP arrived.

NP should receive credit for making sure the youth talent got into the team which he has done more than any other BCFC Manager I can think of. However- the players he ( and BT) have brought in from other clubs over the past 2 years are extremely debatable as to potential profit.

As to the "£5 million" he has spent- please specify every transaction he has made to confirm only £5 million ( that's not a rhetorical question). 

[Dr Balls]

2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I don't know that we have anyone specifically working for us, but we do have people that we can use to "get eyes" on a player in person when needed 

That suggests that we have to somehow identify a player in Europe first, and then if we can, try to get someone to see the player in person. That doesn’t seem very robust in terms of scouting, and behind what others at this level can manage. If Preston could recruit a player very similar to Scott from Denmark for around £1 million, why can’t we? Surely trying to identify a relatively affordable replacement for Scott should have been right at the top of our list of recruitment requirements.

[joe jordans teeth]

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

FFS.

At least give the credit where the credit is due. 

Nige DID NOT recruit Scott or Semenyo- Tinnion did!

NP has not generated £35million- the club has through the Academy- both these players were up and coming stars before NP arrived.

NP should receive credit for making sure the youth talent got into the team which he has done more than any other BCFC Manager I can think of. However- the players he ( and BT) have brought in from other clubs over the past 2 years are extremely debatable as to potential profit.

As to the "£5 million" he has spent- please specify every transaction he has made to confirm only £5 million ( that's not a rhetorical question). 

Tins only scouted them if you want to call it after being told about them,let’s get this myth out the way that he rocked up out the blue and thought they have potential 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Tins only scouted them if you want to call it after being told about them,let’s get this myth out the way that he rocked up out the blue and thought they have potential 

Hahaha!

[joe jordans teeth]

Just now, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Hahaha!

Hahaha

[Simon bristol]

7 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

That suggests that we have to somehow identify a player in Europe first, and then if we can, try to get someone to see the player in person. That doesn’t seem very robust in terms of scouting, and behind what others at this level can manage. If Preston could recruit a player very similar to Scott from Denmark for around £1 million, why can’t we? Surely trying to identify a relatively affordable replacement for Scott should have been right at the top of our list of recruitment requirements.

Weve been burned so many times with signing players from europe, the ease of bedding in a player from england makes it a significantly higher chance that a transfer will be successful, and even then theres a pretty good chance that transfers wont work out. The odd ones like the danish lad at preston look good, but for every kodjia there are probably 15 who dont have much of an impact?

[And Its Smith]

It is funny how everyone sees us sign players and thinks we will improve and seemingly forgets everyone else does as well 

[Dr Balls]

1 minute ago, Simon bristol said:

Weve been burned so many times with signing players from europe, the ease of bedding in a player from england makes it a significantly higher chance that a transfer will be successful, and even then theres a pretty good chance that transfers wont work out. The odd ones like the danish lad at preston look good, but for every kodjia there are probably 15 who dont have much of an impact?

Sorry but I just don’t buy that argument. We have recruited successfully from Europe in the past for relatively low transfer fees (Magnússon, Djuruc, Pisano). It’s like in going from LJ/Ashton to Pearson we have gone from one extreme to another.

[RedRock]

40 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Agree. Do we have scouts in Europe I wonder? 

Key question: Do we have scouts in England I wonder?

[mozo]

25 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Nige DID NOT recruit Scott or Semenyo- Tinnion did!

 

19 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Tins only scouted them if you want to call it after being told about them

Yeah I'm not sure we can credit Tins with scouting Scott. The Guernsey FC coach phone called Tins with the recommendation, we gave Scott a trial, and didn't he score a perfect hat trick in the trial game? 

It was about as handed on a plate as a £25m player gets!

Edited August 19, 2023 by mozo

[Bris Red]

13 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Weve been burned so many times with signing players from europe, the ease of bedding in a player from england makes it a significantly higher chance that a transfer will be successful, and even then theres a pretty good chance that transfers wont work out. The odd ones like the danish lad at preston look good, but for every kodjia there are probably 15 who dont have much of an impact?

Or were the European players we were signing just not good enough/didn’t have the right mentality..

Let’s be honest when Johnson and Ashton were at the height of their spending spree it almost felt like they were signing players on football manager. I genuinely don’t think enough due diligence was done when signing foreigners during their reign.

I think it would be a disaster if as a club we just completely abandoned looking at players from Europe just because a % of the ones dumb and dumber signed didn’t work out.

Lets remember Pearson and his connections unearthed players like Mahrez from Europe.. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Bris Red

[Mr Hankey]

14 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Sorry but I just don’t buy that argument. We have recruited successfully from Europe in the past for relatively low transfer fees (Magnússon, Djuruc, Pisano). It’s like in going from LJ/Ashton to Pearson we have gone from one extreme to another.

You would really call Magnússon, Djuric & Pisano “successful” transfers??? I would say they were all part of an extremely expensive failed Mark Ashton/Lee Johnson experiment which was part of the reason we ended up in a financial mess!
 

All 3 signed for big wages & transfer fees (apart from Pisano, but im sure he had a wedge of a signing on fee) & 2 had pretty big injuries throughout thier time with us.

Edit: actually could be wrong on the transfer fee’s being high as i can’t remember, but i still wouldnt class them as successful transfers.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Mr Hankey

[joe jordans teeth]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

 

Yeah I'm not sure we can credit Tins with scouting Scott. The Guernsey FC coach phone called Tins with the recommendation, we gave Scott a trial, and didn't he score a perfect hat trick in the trial game? 

It was about as handed on a plate as a £25m player gets!

As much as we love tins because of his City career he’s credited with a lot which isn’t his work 

[Dr Balls]

5 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

You would really call Magnússon, Djuric & Pisano “successful” transfers??? I would say they were all part of an extremely expensive failed Mark Ashton/Lee Johnson experiment which was part of the reason we ended up in a financial mess!
 

All 3 signed for big wages & transfer fees (apart from Pisano, but im sure he had a wedge of a signing on fee) & 2 had pretty big injuries throughout thier time with us.

 

I don’t doubt that Ashton may have profited personally from some of these European transfers. As for Magnússon, my understanding was that we made a profit on his transfer out, while Djuruc was unfortunate with injuries (and what we wouldn’t give to have a player like him now) and Pisano did a more than decent job in the 2 seasons with us 

Although I am sure Pring and Tanner are on a fraction of Pisano’s wages, I can’t believe that our wage structure is really so tight that no one from a European league wouldn’t consider moving.

[Mr Hankey]

1 minute ago, Dr Balls said:

I don’t doubt that Ashton may have profited personally from some of these European transfers. As for Magnússon, my understanding was that we made a profit on his transfer out, while Djuruc was unfortunate with injuries (and what we wouldn’t give to have a player like him now) and Pisano did a more than decent job in the 2 seasons with us 

Although I am sure Pring and Tanner are on a fraction of Pisano’s wages, I can’t believe that our wage structure is really so tight that no one from a European league wouldn’t consider moving.

I understand what you are saying & i do agree to an extent (think you are also right that we made a bit of profit on Magnússon) but i would say based on the injuries that the other 2 had along with the high wages would not of meant they would be classed as successful bits of business.

I think you also have to then factor in the likes of Gieffer, Hegeler, Perreira and even Diony to then make you think that the club would no longer want to scout the European market - of course there are class players that would be value for money out there that other clubs will/have been picking up & we have missed out on, but i can also understand if the club were wanting to steer clear for the time being.

[Bazooka Joe]

38 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Hahaha!

 

37 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Hahaha

Are you two having a laugh ?

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Although I am sure Pring and Tanner are on a fraction of Pisano’s wages, I can’t believe that our wage structure is really so tight that no one from a European league wouldn’t consider moving

Agree.

 

I think our recruitment is improving, but it’s far from optimal.

[Taylor10]

31 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Sorry but I just don’t buy that argument. We have recruited successfully from Europe in the past for relatively low transfer fees (Magnússon, Djuruc, Pisano). It’s like in going from LJ/Ashton to Pearson we have gone from one extreme to another.

I think we should be exploring the European market or any viable market in all honesty. We need to be smart, however I can’t say any of the 3 players you mention were successful. Djuric could of been had he stayed fit. The less said about the other two the better.

[tin]

57 minutes ago, Better Red said:

£5m ? Nearer £10m with signing on fees etc… 

We have spent all the Seymenyo money already

Read my post again: I clearly referred to transfer fees only (not signing-on fees etc) and in the calendar year (2023), as that is when Semenyo and Scott were sold.

@Fubermade the point originally, so you might want to check where he got his figures, but by my reckoning he ain’t far wrong — Mehmeti (£1m), Cornick (£300k), McCrorie (£2m), Dickie (£600k), Roberts (free), Knight (£2m) — so an estimated total £5.9m. 

Whether it’s £5m or £6m spent is neither here nor there; my point was it’s still bugger all of the transfer fees we’ve received this year and more funds (either wages or transfer fees) should be available after Scott’s sale IMO.

Edited August 19, 2023 by tin

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

I understand what you are saying & i do agree to an extent (think you are also right that we made a bit of profit on Magnússon) but i would say based on the injuries that the other 2 had along with the high wages would not of meant they would be classed as successful bits of business.

I think you also have to then factor in the likes of Gieffer, Hegeler, Perreira and even Diony to then make you think that the club would no longer want to scout the European market - of course there are class players that would be value for money out there that other clubs will/have been picking up & we have missed out on, but i can also understand if the club were wanting to steer clear for the time being.

Question whether Lee Johnson was ideal to get more out of them, if you look at a number of them at time of signing they are of a similar starting point profile to many who went to e.g. Brentford or Norwich or whoever.

Not Giefer or Diony of course! Hegeler had many injuries and Pereira was youngish with ups and downs,