Recruitment - is ours really as good as we think?

[Dredd]

Without bringing this summers recruitment into it I would question if Pearsons recruitment so far has been successful. The caveat being that he's been working on a budget of course. 
For me, only James and Atkinson would fit into a top 6 team. Naismith clearly has done that recently but not for us. 
Tanner Sykes Cornick Mehmeti Bajic all no. King was a decent utility signing and the less said about Simpson and Kane Wilson the better. 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Tins only scouted them if you want to call it after being told about them,let’s get this myth out the way that he rocked up out the blue and thought they have potential 

Correct

44 minutes ago, mozo said:

 

Yeah I'm not sure we can credit Tins with scouting Scott. The Guernsey FC coach phone called Tins with the recommendation, we gave Scott a trial, and didn't he score a perfect hat trick in the trial game? 

It was about as handed on a plate as a £25m player gets!

Correct. 
And a very similar story with Semenyo, who was at the college in Filton, which was run by a city season ticket holder who notified City about him. 
 

So yes - neither Scott nor Semenyo were unearthed via any traditional scouting methods. Both very much were ‘alerted’ to the club. 

[Fpcity]

The foreign player comment is something I thought about over the summer. Most of the top teams in this division have them. Usually more pace, technically better or stronger. 

Pearson had them in his successful Leicester team so is it the board not keen? We have had some duffs over the recent years so can maybe see the concern! 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, paul_fox said:

The foreign player comment is something I thought about over the summer. Most of the top teams in this division have them. Usually more pace, technically better or stronger. 

Pearson had them in his successful Leicester team so is it the board not keen? We have had some duffs over the recent years so can maybe see the concern! 

With the revised / relaxed WP rules there is a real opportunity to go and find a new “market”.

I would like us to have a feeder club relationship, but I don’t think under the previous WP rules we had sufficient profile to link to a club in say Belgium Jupiler League (top flight) and get players from them.  We needed to be PL, e.g. Leicester and Leuven.  They also could use someone like Leuven to host other continent players.  We’d have had to link to a smaller / lower league team, who then wouldn’t pass the Brexit WP rules.  Having one club as a feeder to us is also a bit limiting.  So we were a bit hamstrung.

Fleetwood have some feeders in Ireland, but again the volume of players for the level is a bit constraining.  Fine for Lg1, but not Championship.

Therefore until the recent changes to make a dent in Europe you need extensive Scouting or Top-Analytics.

But why not NOW go and set something up for say Bundesliga.2.  You can have 4 players that don’t have to pass WP rules.  Look how Wagner / Huddersfield did it a few years back.  You could set something up like that cheaply.

We have to find a way to create an advantage.

[Harry]

In terms of general recruitment, I was thinking earlier this evening about our recruitment of strikers. 
I’m talking actual strikers here, not players who play on the wing but make up a front 3. 
Here’s the list of ins and outs (first team players only) in the last 6 seasons :

2018/19 In None. Out Reid. 
2019/20 In Wells. 
2020/21 In Martin. Out Taylor. 
2021/22 In None. Out Diedhiou. 
2022/23 In Cornick. Out Semenyo & Martin. 
2023/24 to date In None. 
 

So, in the last 5 (now into 6th) seasons we’ve signed 3 strikers, aged 28, 30 & 34. 
 

Yes, we have Conway and Bell who have come through. Arguably Bell isn’t an out and out ‘striker’ and is more of that wide man in a front 3 type. 
 

But I certainly think the recruitment of strikers over the last few years has been left wanting. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Harry

[Dr Balls]

5 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

The foreign player comment is something I thought about over the summer. Most of the top teams in this division have them. Usually more pace, technically better or stronger. 

Pearson had them in his successful Leicester team so is it the board not keen? We have had some duffs over the recent years so can maybe see the concern! 

Agree that there may be an element of reticence about recruiting from Europe from the highest levels at the club, especially having been most recently stung by the Massengo saga. By contrast, someone like Kodjia could be considered a success - 20 goals in a difficult season (20 goals that helped keep us up) and then sold for a tidy profit of £8-10 million after one season. And of course, LJ recruited Tammy Abraham on loan as the replacement striker and he also scored 20+ in a season. We could certainly do with a fit 20 goal-a-season striker right now.

[Better Red]

27 minutes ago, tin said:

Read my post again: I clearly referred to transfer fees only (not signing-on fees etc) and in the calendar year (2023), as that is when Semenyo and Scott were sold.

@Fubermade the point originally, so you might want to check where he got his figures, but by my reckoning he ain’t far wrong — Mehmeti (£1m), Cornick (£300k), McCrorie (£2m), Dickie (£600k), Roberts (free), Knight (£2m) — so an estimated total £5.9m. 

Whether it’s £5m or £6m spent is neither here nor there; my point was it’s still bugger all of the transfer fees we’ve received this year and more funds (either wages or transfer fees) should be available after Scott’s sale IMO.

Naismith as well add another 500/600k

Thats getting closer to £7m plus signing on fees and like I say we have pretty much done the Seymenyo money.

Club will bank circa £10m min from Scott to balance books.

Plus BM will have paid say £15m upfront.

That leaves maybe a few million max to reinvest if Nige is lucky.

 

 

[Rossi the Robin]

I thought recruitment was really good before Scott was sold and todays result 

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

I thought recruitment was really good before Scott was sold and todays result 

I didn’t. 

[Better Red]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

In terms of general recruitment, I was thinking earlier this evening about our recruitment of strikers. 
I’m talking actual strikers here, not players who play on the wing but make up a front 3. 
Here’s the list of ins and outs (first team players only) in the last 6 seasons :

2018/19 In None. Out Reid. 
2019/20 In Wells. 
2020/21 In Martin. Out Taylor. 
2021/22 In None. Out Diedhiou. 
2022/23 In Cornick. Out Semenyo & Martin. 
2023/24 to date In None. 
 

So, in the last 5 (now into 6th) seasons we’ve signed 3 strikers, aged 28, 30 & 34. 
 

Yes, we have Conway and Bell who have come through. Arguably Bell isn’t an out and out ‘striker’ and is more of that wide man in a front 3 type. 
 

But I certainly think the recruitment of strikers over the last few years has been left wanting. 

Great post.

Also not really sure Cornick is a Striker really so that makes it look even worse.

Most clubs would have at least 5 in that period.

We have had Martin and Wells.

Its because largely are scouting in shit.

Brownhill, Webster in recent times you could say have been scouted and  been players we have sold on to better things 

and not much else if the truth be known.

Are net loss on signings outside those 2 over the past few years must be nothing short of a disaster. I would guess close to £30/35m + in signings out with no return. 

 

[BasSavage88]

Isn't our head scout a guy with a laptop and 0 experience?

[Shauntaylor85]

I loved Tinman as a player, probably my all time top 3 in past 30 years, but I am not as convinced as others that he is the right person to be leading our recruitment. Let’s not forget the disaster he created as manager and poor quality of signings back then. Deserves a role for life like Scotty of course, just not sure it’s the right setup. Someone like Dembele would have been perfect for us. 

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, tin said:

Read my post again: I clearly referred to transfer fees only (not signing-on fees etc) and in the calendar year (2023), as that is when Semenyo and Scott were sold.

@Fubermade the point originally, so you might want to check where he got his figures, but by my reckoning he ain’t far wrong — Mehmeti (£1m), Cornick (£300k), McCrorie (£2m), Dickie (£600k), Roberts (free), Knight (£2m) — so an estimated total £5.9m. 

Whether it’s £5m or £6m spent is neither here nor there; my point was it’s still bugger all of the transfer fees we’ve received this year and more funds (either wages or transfer fees) should be available after Scott’s sale IMO.

Literally off the top of my head. But my estimate was indeed between £5.5-6m.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

It does appear a bit worrying as our current squad does seem to have areas which need new signings. And there is the money from Scotts sale. Which does not appear to being available for NP & Tins to out and invest with. But the transfer window has not finished. The club seem to be very quiet about potential targets. Yes we missed the Bolton lad. 

Let's believe and hope.

COYR

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Mr Hankey said:

I understand what you are saying & i do agree to an extent (think you are also right that we made a bit of profit on Magnússon) but i would say based on the injuries that the other 2 had along with the high wages would not of meant they would be classed as successful bits of business.

I think you also have to then factor in the likes of Gieffer, Hegeler, Perreira and even Diony to then make you think that the club would no longer want to scout the European market - of course there are class players that would be value for money out there that other clubs will/have been picking up & we have missed out on, but i can also understand if the club were wanting to steer clear for the time being.

I think what those three players (Pisano, Magnússon, Djuric) demonstrate is that there are decent value for money players available in Europe. You could add Kodjia and Diedhiou and Nagy to that list. Whether we’ve got the best from them in the past is a different matter. 

[tin]

7 hours ago, Better Red said:

Naismith as well add another 500/600k

Thats getting closer to £7m plus signing on fees and like I say we have pretty much done the Seymenyo money.

Club will bank circa £10m min from Scott to balance books.

Plus BM will have paid say £15m upfront.

That leaves maybe a few million max to reinvest if Nige is lucky.

 

 

Naismith signed in June 2022, not 2023, on a free! Plus I’ve said I’m talking transfer fees in this calendar year. I give up.

[Rob k]

The club must have known it was highly likely that Scott was going to be leaving this summer. The replacement should have been lined up and already here. 
Im at the point where I’d welcome new owners, i think they would shake the whole place up including the way we recruit. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Rob k

[Jose]

I think I along with others I  got carried away Pre season. If you actually break down our team there is not a lot of quality. Can’t question their commitment. 
 

Tanner/Sykes/Cornick Bang average at best. 
Pring has been so poor so far this season and Bell is still so raw.

Mehmeti gets the odd go but hasn’t made the impact I hoped. ( That said I noticed yesterday when he had the ball the movement was non existent) 

Questions over Max. 

You are then missing a massive spark in midfield. I never saw Knight as a replacement for Scott. James, Knight and a player who can get us up the pitch.

Add Conways injury we look light up top.

Can’t wait for Friday

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

9 hours ago, mozo said:

 

Yeah I'm not sure we can credit Tins with scouting Scott. The Guernsey FC coach phone called Tins with the recommendation, we gave Scott a trial, and didn't he score a perfect hat trick in the trial game? 

It was about as handed on a plate as a £25m player gets!

 So everytime the phone rings- Tinnion only has to answer it  and hey presto.... "we" give them a trial?  Meanwhile the player develops themselves?

Brian Tinnion has to kiss an awful lot of frogs to find a Prince- that's his job.

"Handed on a plate" suggests you have little knowledge of what goes into producing a player good enough for Nige to select.

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

 So everytime the phone rings- Tinnion only has to answer it  and hey presto.... "we" give them a trial?  Meanwhile the player develops themselves?

Brian Tinnion has to kiss an awful lot of frogs to find a Prince- that's his job.

"Handed on a plate" suggests you have little knowledge of what goes into producing a player good enough for Nige to select.

There appeared to be at least 1 or 2 frogs on the pitch yesterday on that basis, at at the very least reverting to amphibian tendencies. The form of players like Pring and Vyner is a worry, while the starting front 3 yesterday were as toothless as a bunch of tadpoles.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

4 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

There appeared to be at least 1 or 2 frogs on the pitch yesterday on that basis, at at the very least reverting to amphibian tendencies. The form of players like Pring and Vyner is a worry, while the starting front 3 yesterday were as toothless as a bunch of tadpoles.

After one poor game for them?

[Dr Balls]

Just now, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

After one poor game for them?

The risk is that last season was a blip for a number of these players. And unlike some on here, I still don’t think that Vyner is actually a top-notch Championship defender. Not terrible, but certainly not someone any other club looking for promotion would want to take off our hands. And his distribution yesterday was really poor, but then again depending on the central defenders to set up our attacks also highlights our midfield woes.

[mozo]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

In terms of general recruitment, I was thinking earlier this evening about our recruitment of strikers. 
I’m talking actual strikers here, not players who play on the wing but make up a front 3. 
Here’s the list of ins and outs (first team players only) in the last 6 seasons :

2018/19 In None. Out Reid. 
2019/20 In Wells. 
2020/21 In Martin. Out Taylor. 
2021/22 In None. Out Diedhiou. 
2022/23 In Cornick. Out Semenyo & Martin. 
2023/24 to date In None. 
 

So, in the last 5 (now into 6th) seasons we’ve signed 3 strikers, aged 28, 30 & 34. 
 

Yes, we have Conway and Bell who have come through. Arguably Bell isn’t an out and out ‘striker’ and is more of that wide man in a front 3 type. 
 

But I certainly think the recruitment of strikers over the last few years has been left wanting. 

When was Weimann?

Correct me if I'm wrong but in those 5 years, Andi Weimann was the only player to score more than 12 league goals in a season.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Anyway- the players transferred in since NP arrived i.e BCFC recruitment:

Simpson

King

James

Atkinson

Wilson

Bajic

Roberts

McCrorie

Cornick

Mehmeti

Roberts

Dickie

Sykes

Knight

Haikin

Tanner

Naismith

Edited August 20, 2023 by Marina's Rolls Royce

[Davefevs]

You missed Klose!

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Anyway- the players transferred in since NP arrived i.e BCFC recruitment:

Simpson

King

James

Atkinson

Wilson

Bajic

Roberts

McCrorie

Cornick

Mehmeti

Roberts

Dickie

Sykes

Knight

Haikin

Tanner

Naismith

And Klose

[Davefevs]

My view….for the relatively little money we’ve spent in fees (£7.030m) I think we’ve done alright.  It’s been spent pretty frugally.  It’s been spent based on creating “budget” by moving on many players.

Semenyo’s sale (and Scott’s too if that is true) allowed us to spend £4.950m (Mehmeti £1.000m, Cornick £0.300m, McCrorie £1.200m, Dickie £0.700m, Knight £1.750m), about £1.500m amortised over the next 3 to 4 seasons, wages probably £2.500m p.a. also.

I could make an argument that £4.000m p.a. Isn’t using the Semenyo or Scott money at all…it’s using the savings on Massengo, Kalas, Wilson, Dasilva, Moore, Martin, Klose, Bentley, which I’d imagine was more than £4.000m p.a.

That paints an interesting picture / gives a different angle to it.

We have made the least recruits in the Championship over the past 5 windows.

I really hope we do add to the squad.  If that’s it for the summer window, I think I will be very frustrated.

[GrahamC]

11 hours ago, Rossi the Robin said:

I thought recruitment was really good before Scott was sold and todays result 

Mixed bag overall for me but think your point is a good one.

Prior to yesterday’s poor performance & the news about McCrorie I think the consensus on here was that our recruitment this summer of Dickie, Roberts & Knight was decent.

I also think the comments about signing strikers is a bit rich, we are looking to develop our own which with Semenyo then Conway & Bell is a strategy that makes a lot of sense & if TC was fit, I’m not sure people would be posting this.

Wells is going through quite a goal drought in League games but I’m confident he can still make a valuable contribution & so could Weimann if played centrally.

[Dredd]

46 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Mixed bag overall for me but think your point is a good one.

Prior to yesterday’s poor performance & the news about McCrorie I think the consensus on here was that our recruitment this summer of Dickie, Roberts & Knight was decent.

I also think the comments about signing strikers is a bit rich, we are looking to develop our own which with Semenyo then Conway & Bell is a strategy that makes a lot of sense & if TC was fit, I’m not sure people would be posting this.

Wells is going through quite a goal drought in League games but I’m confident he can still make a valuable contribution & so could Weimann if played centrally.

I don't think it's fair to judge this summers recruitment after 3/4 games. Brownhill to a while to get going and most have gone up a division so need time to get used to that. 
But prior to that I've not been impressed. Someone on Twitter mentioned us shopping in Lidl and it kind of feels that way. There's nothing wrong with buying players who you think have a high ceiling and develop them but you can't fill your team with them. It would be nice if we could make a signing that's a statement of intent but I don't see it happening. 

[Henry]

12 hours ago, Harry said:

In terms of general recruitment, I was thinking earlier this evening about our recruitment of strikers. 
I’m talking actual strikers here, not players who play on the wing but make up a front 3. 
Here’s the list of ins and outs (first team players only) in the last 6 seasons :

2018/19 In None. Out Reid. 
2019/20 In Wells. 
2020/21 In Martin. Out Taylor. 
2021/22 In None. Out Diedhiou. 
2022/23 In Cornick. Out Semenyo & Martin. 
2023/24 to date In None. 
 

So, in the last 5 (now into 6th) seasons we’ve signed 3 strikers, aged 28, 30 & 34. 
 

Yes, we have Conway and Bell who have come through. Arguably Bell isn’t an out and out ‘striker’ and is more of that wide man in a front 3 type. 
 

But I certainly think the recruitment of strikers over the last few years has been left wanting. 

Agreed. Is Maynard the last striker we have signed on a perm who been a proper goal scorer?

Bell is not a striker. I don’t think he’ll have a championship career, he’ll go the same way as Wes Burns.