FBC Podcast: B'ham City [H] the verdict ...... next 12 days will shape our season

[headhunter]

Listen on Podbean : https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/b-ham-city-h-the-verdict-as-bad-a-performance-as-parky-s-infamous-meg-ryan-interview/, plus Spotify, Google & Apple

Watch on Twitter: https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1OwxWwXRVLkxQ

It wasn't so much the defeat as the manner of the performance which has set the alarm bells ringing for the FBC quartet [DaveP, Neil, Ian & Mark] who will by some on OTIB be seen as being in a typically bed-wetting meltdown after only 3 games.

The next 12 days WILL shape our season particularly if there is no transfer activity to address the negatives that were glaring highlighted in yesterdays game. 3 shots on target in 3 games simply isn't good enough - we need sharpness in front of goal and the guile to create decent chances.

The loan market has to be the option as, to quote Nigel himself in the Bristol Live post-match analysis, when the likes of Atkinson, Conway & McCrorie eventually return we want the flexibility to return the reinforcements rather than have the squad "cluttered" by their presence.

I can only describe the behaviour of our "owner" at present as verging on bizarre and whilst I see Nigel being under no pressure in the short term that situation might need reviewing by the time we get to the 2nd international break in mid-October; there is, IMHO, no bond between the two most important people at the club and as for our new CEO .... who??

[Engvall’s Splinter]

Love a click bait headline. 

[GrahamC]

Strange that this is in the transfer section if you’re trying to drum up interest.

4 games played, first defeat yesterday & the next 12 days will define our season, apparently.

Not an overreaction at all, oh no.

[NcnsBcfc]

16 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Strange that this is in the transfer section if you’re trying to drum up interest.

4 games played, first defeat yesterday & the next 12 days will define our season, apparently.

Not an overreaction at all, oh no.

Not sure if the transfers will define our season, more a question of how we redefine our tactics (particularly at home) moving forward.

Certainly I don’t see the need to play both Williams and James in a double pivot at home. Maybe that element is better suited to away games when the home team is more likely to come onto us.

Hopefully Weimann is back soon and the management team feel that Naismith is capable of more mins (obviously managing his return). We need that spark/creativity in the middle of the park

For me, Cornick is probably in at the moment for his long throws (led to both league goals of course). I can see no other reason why he is starting ahead of Sykes otherwise.

NP made reference to the full backs. Pring hasn't started the season the way he ended last one (for whatever reason) and Tanner is a perfectly capable defensive RB, but for both of then when it's not happening in midfield we need something more from them both. Pring has it (although not shown it this season yet), Tanner I'm not so sure.

As for transfers in the forward department.  If we are saying that a 17 year old who only signed his first pro contract a couple of weeks ago is an answer off the bench, then we really are struggling. Where is Francois here? 

Body language/words from NP taking about "contraints" is a worry. As is the way Plan A & Plan B seemed to have merged rather than being two distinct strategies.

If there wasn't an issue, why are we looking at a L1 midfielder who can't get into their team at the moment. Can't see how that sort of transfer falls into the "better than what we have mantra" that NP likes to quote.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

If there wasn't an issue, why are we looking at a L1 midfielder who can't get into their team at the moment. Can't see how that sort of transfer falls into the "better than what we have mantra" that NP likes to quote.

You also have to build for the future too!!  Recruitment isn’t one-dimensional.  Nige explained last week about bringing in a CB for example, and what that might mean, with the form of Dickie and Vyner (who after yesterday have become liabilities!!!), and also Atkinson coming back.  You could be paying out money for someone not to play.  We are trying not to do that.

I really don’t want to go back to the “old days” and quote people of former regimes, but the answer to lack of form, injuries, systems, was - recruit players!  It’s why we’ve just gone through 3 years of austerity.  It’s possible to solve problems in house, sometimes it’s the only option.

Re Francois, I assume he’s not done enough to warrant a slot ahead of Yeboah.  FWIW I’ve not really seen anything of him to think he’ll progress out of age group football.  Having said that he had a bad injury, so might end up developing late.

[lenred]

58 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Strange that this is in the transfer section if you’re trying to drum up interest.

4 games played, first defeat yesterday & the next 12 days will define our season, apparently.

Not an overreaction at all, oh no.

There’s a hell of a lot of hyperbolic bollocks on this forum after yesterday and this seems to fit that mood nicely.   

[NcnsBcfc]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You also have to build for the future too!!  Recruitment isn’t one-dimensional.  Nige explained last week about bringing in a CB for example, and what that might mean, with the form of Dickie and Vyner (who after yesterday have become liabilities!!!), and also Atkinson coming back.  You could be paying out money for someone not to play.  We are trying not to do that.

I really don’t want to go back to the “old days” and quote people of former regimes, but the answer to lack of form, injuries, systems, was - recruit players!  It’s why we’ve just gone through 3 years of austerity.  It’s possible to solve problems in house, sometimes it’s the only option.

Re Francois, I assume he’s not done enough to warrant a slot ahead of Yeboah.  FWIW I’ve not really seen anything of him to think he’ll progress out of age group football.  Having said that he had a bad injury, so might end up developing late.

@Davefevs unlike the sage Ian Gay, I wasn't advocating 4-5 transfers. It's evolution rather than revolution for me.

However that is now 42 league goals in 41 league games (40 last season, 2 this). It's quite clear now than the system we are playing is constrainly us creatively.

You only have to look at the "maverick" Mehmeti when he came in the Jan window. Raw, yes; but he had an unpredictably to his play that could be a differential for us. In much the same way Semenyo had when he was on his game. The first half away at Sunderland he was superb, at other times less so. Now for whatever reason (confidence, coaching?)  that "unpredictability " seems to have been as I say constrained to fit into a structure.

How many goals did we score from outside the box last year (in my mind only Weimann's at home to blackpool). We are extremely predicable as an attacking force (look to break quickly, and spread it wide).

However without anyone on the centre to force the tempo, this is happening too slowly and allowing teams to get back in numbers.

The full backs aren't pushing on like last year and we are stuck in a bit of a rut.

I get what @GrahamC says, we are only 3 league games into the season. But this had been coming for a while (4 goals in last 8 away games last season) and as the goals per game ratio mentioned above, we not evolving our attacking options, merely rotating personnel in the same plan.

I still believe in NP, but something isn't right behind the scenes. Nothing from the board as a whole about supporting the manager with funds (on the basis that he might say he doesn't need them). His interview yesterday and in the week was almost "I want to get new players in, but I'm constrained". At the same time SL is saying the money is "useful for the future". There are a number of mixed messages out there.

Maybe the chairman can make an appearance and clarify the club's thinking ?

Edited August 20, 2023 by NcnsBcfc

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

@Davefevs unlike the sage Ian Gay, I wasn't advocating 4-5 transfers. It's evolution rather than revolution for me.

However that is now 42 league goals in 41 league games (40 last season, 2 this). It's quite clear now than the system we are playing is constrainly us creatively.

You only have to look at the "maverick" Mehmeti when he came in the Jan window. Raw, yes; but he had an unpredictably to his play that could be a differential for us. In much the same way Semenyo had when he was on his game. The first half away at Sunderland he was superb, at other times less so. Now for whatever reason (confidence, coaching?)  that "unpredictability " seems to have been as I say constrained to fit into a structure.

How many goals did we score from outside the box last year (in my mind only Weimann's at home to blackpool). We are extremely predicable as an attacking force (look to break quickly, and spread it wide).

However without anyone on the centre to force the tempo, this is happening too slowly and allowing teams to get back in numbers.

The full backs aren't pushing on like last year and we are stuck in a bit of a rut.

I get what @GrahamC says, we are only 3 league games into the season. But this had been coming for a while (4 goals in last 8 away games last season) and as the goals per game ratio mentioned above, we not evolving our attacking options, merely rotating personnel in the same plan.

I still believe in NP, but something isn't right behind the scenes. Nothing from the board as a whole about supporting the manager with funds (on the basis that he might say he doesn't need them). His interview yesterday and in the week was almost "I want to get new players in, but I'm constrained". At the same time SL is saying the money is "useful for the future". There are a number of mixed messages out there.

Maybe the chairman can make an appearance and clarify the club's thinking ?

I didn’t say you were advocating lots of transfers, but signings can be made for different reasons.  We appear to have nobody in u21s to fill the void that will be left by Matty James, for say next season.  So, although I have no knowledge of the thought process behind the bid for Thomason, he seems a deep-lying passer type that we might look to develop.

I know you’re focussing on attack with your numbers, but if we’d scored 65, but conceded 65, you’d be saying our defence isn’t good enough.  That might be true, but there is another side to the argument.  We’ve improved defensively, it never gets mentioned.  It’s come at the expense of some attacking by the looks of it.

We aren’t firing in attack.

We aren’t even getting it wide for Pring.  Without checking I can barely recall him going at the opposition full-back in the final third this season.

We are generally solid defensively.

I think we’ve played three sides so far who are largely “difficult to play against”, “disrupters”.  When we’ve played a few more we can see where we are.

My “excuse” last season was losing key players at the same time.  Summer recruitment looked to address that.  To lose Conway and Scott (different reasons) is a huge blow.  Naismith just feeling his way back in.  Weimann out too.  He has mixed thoughts on here, but he’s still an important player imho.

[NcnsBcfc]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I didn’t say you were advocating lots of transfers, but signings can be made for different reasons.  We appear to have nobody in u21s to fill the void that will be left by Matty James, for say next season.  So, although I have no knowledge of the thought process behind the bid for Thomason, he seems a deep-lying passer type that we might look to develop.

I know you’re focussing on attack with your numbers, but if we’d scored 65, but conceded 65, you’d be saying our defence isn’t good enough.  That might be true, but there is another side to the argument.  We’ve improved defensively, it never gets mentioned.  It’s come at the expense of some attacking by the looks of it.

We aren’t firing in attack.

We aren’t even getting it wide for Pring.  Without checking I can barely recall him going at the opposition full-back in the final third this season.

We are generally solid defensively.

I think we’ve played three sides so far who are largely “difficult to play against”, “disrupters”.  When we’ve played a few more we can see where we are.

My “excuse” last season was losing key players at the same time.  Summer recruitment looked to address that.  To lose Conway and Scott (different reasons) is a huge blow.  Naismith just feeling his way back in.  Weimann out too.  He has mixed thoughts on here, but he’s still an important player imho.

I think the thing for me, is that absolutely as you state we have "sacrificed" creatively for solidtivity. Defensively we are better (although the debate on Max will rumble of course). The issue with this sacrifice is it relys on your strikers being clinical when they get their 1/2 chances per game.

In our case at the moment, we have a main number 9 (due to injury) who hasn't scored from open play in 23 games. Yesterday we played Bell there and I think we can all agree that was a hiding to nothing. To then bring on Yeboah later, is a complete hiding to nothing really.

The loss of McCrorie is massively overlooked as well. I think whether at RB or CM. He was seem as a dynamic player who could get us driving forward.

As you say only a small sample of games so far, but the issues of last season don't seem to have been addressed so far.

Probably a good time for 2 away games, with teams that will hopefully come at us, rather than be "disrupters".

[headhunter]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You also have to build for the future too!!  Recruitment isn’t one-dimensional.  Nige explained last week about bringing in a CB for example, and what that might mean, with the form of Dickie and Vyner (who after yesterday have become liabilities!!!), and also Atkinson coming back.  You could be paying out money for someone not to play.  We are trying not to do that.

I really don’t want to go back to the “old days” and quote people of former regimes, but the answer to lack of form, injuries, systems, was - recruit players!  It’s why we’ve just gone through 3 years of austerity.  It’s possible to solve problems in house, sometimes it’s the only option.

Re Francois, I assume he’s not done enough to warrant a slot ahead of Yeboah.  FWIW I’ve not really seen anything of him to think he’ll progress out of age group football.  Having said that he had a bad injury, so might end up developing late.

You are right Dave in saying recruitment isn't one-dimensional but it is certainly 2 with the loan market being just that. As the OP I quoted Nigel from his piece with Bristol Live which suggests  he might be modifying his stance on loans viz. avoiding clutter when injured players become available again for selection.

Were we a bit premature in letting Seb P-H go out on loan. He offers that "something different" up front and could be no less impactful coming off the bench in the manner Yeboah has?

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I didn’t say you were advocating lots of transfers, but signings can be made for different reasons.  We appear to have nobody in u21s to fill the void that will be left by Matty James, for say next season.  So, although I have no knowledge of the thought process behind the bid for Thomason, he seems a deep-lying passer type that we might look to develop.

I know you’re focussing on attack with your numbers, but if we’d scored 65, but conceded 65, you’d be saying our defence isn’t good enough.  That might be true, but there is another side to the argument.  We’ve improved defensively, it never gets mentioned.  It’s come at the expense of some attacking by the looks of it.

We aren’t firing in attack.

We aren’t even getting it wide for Pring.  Without checking I can barely recall him going at the opposition full-back in the final third this season.

We are generally solid defensively.

I think we’ve played three sides so far who are largely “difficult to play against”, “disrupters”.  When we’ve played a few more we can see where we are.

My “excuse” last season was losing key players at the same time.  Summer recruitment looked to address that.  To lose Conway and Scott (different reasons) is a huge blow.  Naismith just feeling his way back in.  Weimann out too.  He has mixed thoughts on here, but he’s still an important player imho.

I'm not saying you're endorsing this but I got a massive shudder at the thought of Matty James, with his Premier League experience and footballing intellect, being replaced next season by a young lad currently playing okay for Bolton! 

It just reminded me that we need a succession plan for this midfield. Knight will hopefully be part of the solution, although we haven't got a measure of him yet (I know you're confident he has the talent).

I've just seen that Christ Tiehi has just signed for Rotherham. I thought he was fantastic for Wigan at Ashton Gate last season as an energetic Makalele type. He's 25 and clearly not going to be a high earner. Someone like that would be a good option.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, mozo said:

I'm not saying you're endorsing this but I got a massive shudder at the thought of Matty James, with his Premier League experience and footballing intellect, being replaced next season by a young lad currently playing okay for Bolton! 

It just reminded me that we need a succession plan for this midfield. Knight will hopefully be part of the solution, although we haven't got a measure of him yet (I know you're confident he has the talent).

I've just seen that Christ Tiehi has just signed for Rotherham. I thought he was fantastic for Wigan at Ashton Gate last season as an energetic Makalele type. He's 25 and clearly not going to be a high earner. Someone like that would be a good option.

Probably didn’t word it very well.  James will very likely get an extension, but you need someone pushing him next season, being seen as a genuine successor by the end of next season.

[JoeAman08]

10 minutes ago, mozo said:

I'm not saying you're endorsing this but I got a massive shudder at the thought of Matty James, with his Premier League experience and footballing intellect, being replaced next season by a young lad currently playing okay for Bolton! 

It just reminded me that we need a succession plan for this midfield. Knight will hopefully be part of the solution, although we haven't got a measure of him yet (I know you're confident he has the talent).

I've just seen that Christ Tiehi has just signed for Rotherham. I thought he was fantastic for Wigan at Ashton Gate last season as an energetic Makalele type. He's 25 and clearly not going to be a high earner. Someone like that would be a good option.

Don’t we will be better when we finally replace him. Important in a poor side? Sure but evolving to be a top 6 side he needs to be pushed to the bench by someone. We don’t have anyone to do that at the minute though

[mozo]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Probably didn’t word it very well.  James will very likely get an extension, but you need someone pushing him next season, being seen as a genuine successor by the end of next season.

Could Knight be that successor? Or is Knight the next Weimann?

Matty James is my favourite Pearson signing. I hope he can maintain his fitness and standards for another couple of seasons.

[GrahamC]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Probably didn’t word it very well.  James will very likely get an extension, but you need someone pushing him next season, being seen as a genuine successor by the end of next season.

And rightly should.

The phrase throwing the baby out with the bath water comes to mind.

Unlikely we keep him, Williams & Weimann on (& King is surely going to retire next summer) but we should keep at least one, arguably two of them.

Succession planning is never about letting everyone go at the same time.

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

And rightly should.

The phrase throwing the baby out with the bath water comes to mind.

Unlikely we keep him, Williams & Weimann on (& King is surely going to retire next summer) but we should keep at least one, arguably two of them.

Succession planning is never about letting everyone go at the same time.

I think Weimann and James are good for another season after this.

Williams is an odd one because we've supported him through long periods of injury and it would be ironic to then let him leave for nowt just when he gets fit. Is he playing for his City future this season?

I'd personally like an AM before the window shuts and a DM next summer, and they need to be ready for the first team.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, mozo said:

Could Knight be that successor? Or is Knight the next Weimann?

Matty James is my favourite Pearson signing. I hope he can maintain his fitness and standards for another couple of seasons.

Knight for me is what Joe (with Hamstrings) Williams should’ve / could’ve been.  Bursting forward from midfield, not starting from high-up.  He is versatile, but for me his best position is “midfield” and doing a bit / lot of everything.

Hence why I’ve talked about changing how we are set up.

[daored]

I’m not sure we’ll see much recruitment between now and September. Think the club see us as having enough to stay in this league , there is no question Pearson will not be here next season and believe any budget will be for whoever the club appoint as manager next season. Just a hunch 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, daored said:

I’m not sure we’ll see much recruitment between now and September. Think the club see us as having enough to stay in this league , there is no question Pearson will not be here next season and believe any budget will be for whoever the club appoint as manager next season. Just a hunch 

Would be a disgrace if it does play out like that.

[daored]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Would be a disgrace if it does play out like that.

I’m not saying I agree with the approach but just have a feeling it’s what is going to happen 

[headhunter]

14 minutes ago, daored said:

I’m not sure we’ll see much recruitment between now and September. Think the club see us as having enough to stay in this league , there is no question Pearson will not be here next season and believe any budget will be for whoever the club appoint as manager next season. Just a hunch 

I agree we have enough to stay in the League. Having read the interview with Nigel in the Sunday Times today [he was with the journo in Scozzi in Clevedon Monday evening] and featured in another thread on here, I think he could well call it a day anyway - there appears to be more to his life than football  and there's that bucket list to achieve which he alludes to in the article as "you never know how long you've got". He's 60 tomorrow and at 67 myself I know what he means!!

[CodeRed]

11 minutes ago, daored said:

I’m not sure we’ll see much recruitment between now and September. Think the club see us as having enough to stay in this league , there is no question Pearson will not be here next season and believe any budget will be for whoever the club appoint as manager next season. Just a hunch 

That's how I see it, if you heard Steve Lansdown on the Guernsey podcast he was saying that Luton got promoted with a squad of players that were not as good as ours -  inference being that our manager should have done better with his resources. 

If Nige isn't backed he'll probably walk anyway, if he can't move forward he'll probably see no point in signing a new contract even if one was offered. In his recent Times interview he said there were plenty of things he still wanted to do in his life after football and he talked about not leaving it too late.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, daored said:

I’m not saying I agree with the approach but just have a feeling it’s what is going to happen 

Oh, I know you’re not…just worried you might be a soothsayer!

[daored]

15 minutes ago, headhunter said:

I agree we have enough to stay in the League. Having read the interview with Nigel in the Sunday Times today [he was with the journo in Scozzi in Clevedon Monday evening] and featured in another thread on here, I think he could well call it a day anyway - there appears to be more to his life than football  and there's that bucket list to achieve which he alludes to in the article as "you never know how long you've got". He's 60 tomorrow and at 67 myself I know what he means!!

Glad you do , because I don’t!! Start of every season I look for three worse teams than us and was confident we’d be well clear. No creativity and 3 shots on target in 3 games - you don’t score you’ve got problems 

4 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

That's how I see it, if you heard Steve Lansdown on the Guernsey podcast he was saying that Luton got promoted with a squad of players that were not as good as ours -  inference being that our manager should have done better with his resources. 

If Nige isn't backed he'll probably walk anyway, if he can't move forward he'll probably see no point in signing a new contract even if one was offered. In his recent Times interview he said there were plenty of things he still wanted to do in his life after football and he talked about not leaving it too late.

Can’t see us offering Pearson another contract , if we did would he sign but to be honest pointless discussion as don’t think club will. 
 

The club needed a feel good factor following Scott departure , fact there hasn’t been suggested we stick with what we’ve got. Hopefully the gamble will prove correct 

[Nogbad the Bad]

28 minutes ago, headhunter said:

I agree we have enough to stay in the League. Having read the interview with Nigel in the Sunday Times today [he was with the journo in Scozzi in Clevedon Monday evening] and featured in another thread on here, I think he could well call it a day anyway - there appears to be more to his life than football  and there's that bucket list to achieve which he alludes to in the article as "you never know how long you've got". He's 60 tomorrow and at 67 myself I know what he means!!

There is, but another one on his bucket list may have been one more managerial success with a club he admitted to find 'fascinating', Bristol City.

He could easily have retired to concentrate on his bucket list before taking the City job - even through ill health - but the fact he was determined to take on the City challenge suggests there is still plenty of professional hunger there.

Now, if he should leave City by his own choice we can assume it will not be due to an impatience to accomplish other items on his bucket list but because he feels let down by a club and owner who were no doubt desperate for him to get City out of the sh*t but once the club's squad and finances were stabilised then refused to back him, making any further progress, and job satisfaction, impossible.

I'm sure the moment he feels that to be undeniably the case he'll be off. 

[marcofisher]

NP was talking about how much he was loving life at the end of last season… 3 signings and we could be really pushing the next couple of season as well.

[headhunter]

28 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

There is, but another one on his bucket list may have been one more managerial success with a club he admitted to find 'fascinating', Bristol City. Agree

He could easily have retired to concentrate on his bucket list before taking the City job - even through ill health - but the fact he was determined to take on the City challenge suggests there is still plenty of professional hunger there. Not so sure now - those friends [Chris Bart Williams, Trevor Francis, Gordon McQueen and his assistant at Carlisle] of his who have passed in the last year may have modified that view on his part

Now, if he should leave City by his own choice we can assume it will not be due to an impatience to accomplish other items on his bucket list but because he feels let down by a club and owner who were no doubt desperate for him to get City out of the sh*t but once the club's squad and finances were stabilised then refused to back him, making any further progress, and job satisfaction, impossible. As I have said on FBC, SL is scant with any praise for Nigel and his comment about our squad being stronger than Luton's says it all - the inference is that Nigel should be getting a better tune out of what he's got. He'll pull that trigger sometime in the next 9 months or let the contract run down and not renew. Remember, Nige described the recruitment under MA/LJ as bonkers with in saying that an implied criticism of a strategy signed off by SL

I'm sure the moment he feels that to be undeniably the case he'll be off. 

I hope we can muster 2 or 3 points from the two away games and progress to the 3rd of the Carabao. If we don't its going to be carnage on here

[marmite]

16 minutes ago, headhunter said:

I hope we can muster 2 or 3 points from the two away games and progress to the 3rd of the Carabao. If we don't its going to be carnage on here

That's a big ask on current form. I personally think Nige won't be here next season unless we are challenging come April. Whether that's down to him or SL, hmmm, I wouldn't like to call it.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, marmite said:

That's a big ask on current form. I personally think Nige won't be here next season unless we are challenging come April. Whether that's down to him or SL, hmmm, I wouldn't like to call it.

On “current form” we have four points from three games. So 2-3 points in the next two would be hitting current form wouldn’t it? It’s irrelevant though because we know that’s not how the Championship plays out. We could get zero or come away with all six. Impossible to predict. The only comment missing after yesterday is “can’t see where our next win is coming”……..

[marmite]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

On “current form” we have four points from three games. So 2-3 points in the next two would be hitting current form wouldn’t it? It’s irrelevant though because we know that’s not how the Championship plays out. We could get zero or come away with all six. Impossible to predict. The only comment missing after yesterday is “can’t see where our next win is coming”……..

Fair comment. I was judging form as performance rather than points accrued.  It's been pretty dire in the home league games so far. I want us to win ,yes, but I want to be entertained too. Is that too much to ask? (I suppose it is)