FBC Podcast: B'ham City [H] the verdict ...... next 12 days will shape our season

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, marmite said:

That's a big ask on current form. I personally think Nige won't be here next season unless we are challenging come April. Whether that's down to him or SL, hmmm, I wouldn't like to call it.

Would that be this “current form”? W2 D1 L1?

I was also checking what Neil had said about our away scoring record (4 goals in 8 games) & it’s interesting how you can often make the stats say what you want;

In our last 5 away league games now we have scored 5, however the two games in this run where we didn’t score were against 2 sides who are both now in the Prem.

Doesn’t sound anywhere near as bad, does it?

[headhunter]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Would that be this “current form”? W2 D1 L1?

I was also checking what Neil had said about our away scoring record (4 goals in 8 games) & it’s interesting how you can often make the stats say what you want;

In our last 5 away league games now we have scored 5, however the two games in this run where we didn’t score were against 2 sides who are both now in the Prem.

Doesn’t sound anywhere near as bad, does it?

You should know all of us on FBC never sugar coat any discussion topic

[firstdivision]

11 hours ago, headhunter said:

You should know all of us on FBC never sugar coat any discussion topic

I listened to the whole podcast this morning. I agreed with nearly everything that everyone said. The contributors were gloomy but reasonable in their analysis: critical but largely fair.

I always desperately hope we win every game but I also try to be objective about how we play etc. People think using your critical faculties makes you a bed wetter (or if you over-support, you are a happy clapper.) I ignore that nonsense. It’s childish. Just say what you see without insulting.

This is what I see: we have problems and those that run the club/team need to find solutions: injuries, illness, some average signings and the sale of AS have left us looking leaden and unconvincing. We will get injuries so we need a bigger squad if we want to compete - the last few seasons have shown that. I agree with Ian that we need five new players - not that we’ll get them, of course. 

I can’t believe some posters are using the phrase: ‘if we want to compete for a top six place…’ I thought 10-14 at the start of the season and for the first time since we were promoted I didn’t try to work out three teams obviously worse than us. I did it after Saturday though. Fortunately, I think there are more than three but there aren’t stacks of them. 

[Sir Geoff]

Cant understand all the doom and gloom on the podcast, personally. I think it was Ian at the end said that we have put in 3 poor performances.  If any of you had bothered to travel to Millwall you would have witnessed a controlled, professional away performance that garnered 3 points. It was anything but a poor performance. We weren't poor against Preston either, not great admittedly but sometimes the opposition and the way they play / set up has a bearing on our performance too.

[frenchred]

15 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Cant understand all the doom and gloom on the podcast, personally. I think it was Ian at the end said that we have put in 3 poor performances.  If any of you had bothered to travel to Millwall you would have witnessed a controlled, professional away performance that garnered 3 points. It was anything but a poor performance. We weren't poor against Preston either, not great admittedly but sometimes the opposition and the way they play / set up has a bearing on our performance too.

But surely that's the management and players job to workout how to beat teams no matter how they play against us

We were shite against Preston and Birmingham, Millwall I'll give you and hope that proves to be the norm and not the other 2

I have my doubts though, and personally you can't look any further to apportion blame than the man at the top

[2015]

I like the podcast. I think some of the posters on here are being negative about the podcast being negative.

Lets be fair, our performances to date this season have been poor, lets call a spade a spade and be honest.

[Sir Geoff]

52 minutes ago, frenchred said:

But surely that's the management and players job to workout how to beat teams no matter how they play against us

We were shite against Preston and Birmingham, Millwall I'll give you and hope that proves to be the norm and not the other 2

I have my doubts though, and personally you can't look any further to apportion blame than the man at the top

I'm sure they do, but that's not giving any credit to the opposition management / players who do the same. We can't win every game.

We weren't shite against Preston. I can't comment on Birmingham as I wasn't there.

Why would you blame the manager, if players don't carry out their roles as instructed. (not saying that is the case but its not always the mangers fault).

[johnbytheriver]

No discussion on why Pring was substituted  at half time? Was he injured? or was it just tactical?

[Numero Uno]

16 hours ago, marmite said:

Fair comment. I was judging form as performance rather than points accrued.  It's been pretty dire in the home league games so far. I want us to win ,yes, but I want to be entertained too. Is that too much to ask? (I suppose it is)

Not at all. Performances have to get better, neither home game has reached the standard. Only the most Clappy of Happy Clappers would ignore that. However the difference between stating that and some of the more negative stuff we read is massive.

I think Naismith in the middle would help us as the current three doesn’t work as a unit, it’s a pisser that he’ll probably have to replace Dickie at Centre Half on Saturday instead.

[frenchred]

58 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I'm sure they do, but that's not giving any credit to the opposition management / players who do the same. We can't win every game.

We weren't shite against Preston. I can't comment on Birmingham as I wasn't there.

Why would you blame the manager, if players don't carry out their roles as instructed. (not saying that is the case but its not always the mangers fault).

I beg to differ, we were shite against Preston, even worse against birmingham

[firstdivision]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

I'm sure they do, but that's not giving any credit to the opposition management / players who do the same. We can't win every game.

We weren't shite against Preston. I can't comment on Birmingham as I wasn't there.

Why would you blame the manager, if players don't carry out their roles as instructed. (not saying that is the case but its not always the mangers fault).

You're right about the Millwall game, Sir Geoff (I did bother to watch it and watch nearly every game). We played well enough, but there was still something troubling about it, I thought. Afterwards I was ecstatic with the win but couldn't help feeling a little disquiet as well. Our uncontrolled forward play left me wondering about our ability to unseat teams (especially at home) who've done their prep and stick to the game plan. We are simply too lightweight up front. We had one of those (rare) days when something fell nicely for us at the end. Serendipitous. But the Championship is generally more brutal than romantic.

I would characterise the Preston game as worrying (the lack of creativity and the ease with which Preston started to open us up when they were 1-0 down). The way the Birmingham game panned out didn't surprise me in the slightest. We're hard working, but I fear some hard work for our watching fans this season.

And God help us if we get any more long-term injuries. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by firstdivision

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, firstdivision said:

We are simply too lightweight up front

I totally believe we aren’t lightweight up front.

I do believe we are poorly structured to make use of the types of players we have and benefit the midfield behind them.

I’ve written plenty of times about this.  I also recognise that there might be reasons why Nige plays the three the way he does, and moving to a pair might create other weaknesses.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, frenchred said:

I beg to differ, we were shite against Preston, even worse against birmingham

We weren’t brilliant against Millwall either, I noted just one shot on target, James take a bow . 
However we do seem to be better defensively at the expense of the open attacking football that we thought we would get this season. 

[headhunter]

5 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Cant understand all the doom and gloom on the podcast, personally. I think it was Ian at the end said that we have put in 3 poor performances.  If any of you had bothered to travel to Millwall you would have witnessed a controlled, professional away performance that garnered 3 points. It was anything but a poor performance. We weren't poor against Preston either, not great admittedly but sometimes the opposition and the way they play / set up has a bearing on our performance too.

 

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

I'm sure they do, but that's not giving any credit to the opposition management / players who do the same. We can't win every game.

We weren't shite against Preston. I can't comment on Birmingham as I wasn't there.

Why would you blame the manager, if players don't carry out their roles as instructed. (not saying that is the case but its not always the mangers fault).

Watched the Millwall game live on Robins TV whilst on holiday abroad.

Were you not at the Brum game as you couldn't be bothered.

I think you are in a minority in terms of your seemingly positive view on performances to date.

I approached this season in a positive frame of mind which after 56 seasons takes some effort. Typical City - raising expectations with a good cup win vs. Oxford [which I bothered to go to] and at Millwall only to have them dashed by the *hitshow that was Brum on Saturday.

[Sir Geoff]

27 minutes ago, headhunter said:

 

Watched the Millwall game live on Robins TV whilst on holiday abroad.

Were you not at the Brum game as you couldn't be bothered.

I think you are in a minority in terms of your seemingly positive view on performances to date.

I approached this season in a positive frame of mind which after 56 seasons takes some effort. Typical City - raising expectations with a good cup win vs. Oxford [which I bothered to go to] and at Millwall only to have them dashed by the *hitshow that was Brum on Saturday.

After 56 years you should realise that you can't really analyse a game properly from watching it on TV. You miss so many nuances, I e runs made off the ball, closing down, even how windy it was during the Preston game ( which definitely affected Max's kicking). However you and your pals pass comment every week on games they haven't attended. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word bothered but if I hosted a podcast that is prone to criticize rather than be positive about I would make the effort to actually be there.

[headhunter]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

After 56 years you should realise that you can't really analyse a game properly from watching it on TV. You miss so many nuances, I e runs made off the ball, closing down, even how windy it was during the Preston game ( which definitely affected Max's kicking). However you and your pals pass comment every week on games they haven't attended. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word bothered but if I hosted a podcast that is prone to criticize rather than be positive about I would make the effort to actually be there.

I get your point about the nuances. However, the Robins TV coverage is great with replays and different camera angles more than, IMHO, compensating for those nuances.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, headhunter said:

I get your point about the nuances. However, the Robins TV coverage is great with replays and different camera angles more than, IMHO, compensating for those nuances.

Are you not attending any more?

What about Ian, Mark and Neil….are they still going to AG?

[Curr Avon]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Are you not attending any more?

What about Ian, Mark and Neil….are they still going to AG?

Yes, we are all still going to AG.

[firstdivision]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I totally believe we aren’t lightweight up front.

I do believe we are poorly structured to make use of the types of players we have and benefit the midfield behind them.

I’ve written plenty of times about this.  I also recognise that there might be reasons why Nige plays the three the way he does, and moving to a pair might create other weaknesses.

I think you should pick the team, Dave.

We are lightweight with the current structure - and without Tommy C.
 

I would like to have seen Mehmeti, Conway, Bell. I wonder if he’ll get there eventually (quite a while now with TC’s injury), just like he got to Cam Pring eventually, and a back four eventually. I don’t mind your idea of Mehmeti in the 10 role either. 

God, I miss Antoine. And AS. And TC.

[NcnsBcfc]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Are you not attending any more?

What about Ian, Mark and Neil….are they still going to AG?

@Davefevs, yes still got the 4 STs in E32. Trying to go to as many away games as possible, but i've now taken on the DOF role at Clevedon Utd as well, which takes up some of my weekends when not at AG.

@Sir Geoff I've never said the Millwall performance was poor. It was a well executed defensive performance caped by a 94th min winner from our only shot on target. Using the now patented and (indeed only way of scoring a league goal this season ) Cornick long hopeful throw into the box and hope for the best.

If that's the way we're going to set up away from home, there are of course benefits to that approach. Our strengths are still as a team on the fast break and the home team are more likely to come onto us.

The problem is we seem to be adapting this away strategy to our home performances now. Where the away team are just sitting back, denying us the space behind and waiting for us to make a mistake (as Birmingham did in the run to the 1st goal with Vyner, and 2nd with Naismith)

@GrahamC After 30 years, you know I'm not going to be an Ian Gay who will take stats and try to make them fit an agenda. But if we are going to be a possession based team (basically because other teams are happy for us to have the ball, knowing there is zero creativity at the moment) then we have to learn to be more effective with it.

As a team one of our strengths is on the fast break. I think we were about 4th in the division for effective fast breaks last season. What we are missing is the Scott tempo that assisted our assisters. The pace is slow and tepid at present whilst still trying to do the same thing we did last season without the personnel to do it (some gone, some injured of course).

Second half of the season, teams cottoned onto us and we haven't adapted. The away losses at Swansea, Cardiff, Luton, Sheffield Utd (I hear you on the last two) were poor performances.

But let's not forget the Huddersfield, Reading games. Blackpool where before our only goal from outside the box last season, we weren't great. 

The last game of the season at QPR (that I went to) was a bit of a banker. QPR had given up, they stayed up, but just wanted the season to end.

Still supporting NP, but we are stuck in bit of a rut at the moment. Let's see where we are after 10 games of course. I hope we're able to get going again as a team, because at the moment we're treading water.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Birmingham themselves are a bit counter attacking. Can sit in at times.

More positive than previous years of course but when you have a side who are slowly evolving to a more possession based style from a counter attacking base vs one in a similar boat, the away side can have a tactical advantage.

Our team selection was a bit suspect too. IMO.

Sykes-Wells-Bell was how I would have started. Or if we went with the front 3 we did, Cornick central?

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

I don’t believe PNE or Brum sat back.

PNE were very brave, going 3 v 3 at the back, they actually denied the space in front.  They played a pretty high line.  They were a bit like Barnsley under Ismael.

Brum were a bit mixed.  Four high pressers / blockers, then two DMs protecting the Back 4. The fact that we broke that initial block quite often first half, shows more that we failed to take advantage of getting at their back 6.  It wasn’t anything like two blocks of 4, or a 451/460 without the ball.

I actually think over quite a long period most sides (bar the really strugglers) come to AG thinking they can get something, and very few sit back per se.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Preston and their shape caught us a bit IMO. Said it before but the 3-5-1-1 isn't that common at our level.

The new Danish midfielder for them was good and a 1-1 can give a pair of centre backs a bit of a dilemma. Couldn't break the lines or pull out of position so well without Scott or Naismith.

Lowe definitely has Preston more positive than under Neil however.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I actually think over quite a long period most sides (bar the really strugglers) come to AG thinking they can get something, and very few sit back per se.

Our home record has been crap since the start of the 2015/16 season - when the AG rebuild was completed. 

Can't be arsed to check now, but I'd be surprised if we've won more than 12 home league games in a season since then. 

[Davefevs]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Our home record has been crap since the start of the 2015/16 season - when the AG rebuild was completed. 

Can't be arsed to check now, but I'd be surprised if we've won more than 12 home league games in a season since then. 

Yep, not me…but teams fancy AG.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Our home record has been crap since the start of the 2015/16 season - when the AG rebuild was completed. 

Can't be arsed to check now, but I'd be surprised if we've won more than 12 home league games in a season since then. 

12th last season wasn't it?

Define crap anyway- middling to lower middling?

[Harry]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Our home record has been crap since the start of the 2015/16 season - when the AG rebuild was completed. 

Can't be arsed to check now, but I'd be surprised if we've won more than 12 home league games in a season since then. 

22/23 - 9

21/22 - 8

20/21 - 7

19/20 - 8

18/19 - 8

17/18 - 11

16/17 - 11

15/16 - 7

[Harry]

69 Home wins since we got back in the championship 

58 Away wins since we got back in the championship 

That says a lot. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I get the feeling that the number of home wins and or PPG has declined a bit at this level I did a little bit of research a few years ago but am happy to look over the last 8 seasons.

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

12th last season wasn't it?

Define crap anyway- middling to lower middling?

We were 14th last season & won 9, so not sure what you mean by 12th.

Anyway I’m not bothered if the wins come at home or away but think we have been set up as the sort of side that is a counter attacking one, so that probably works better away.

The loss of Semenyo’s pace & strength & Scott’s artistry is bound to make a difference though.