Another big away following on the cards

[CyderInACan]

4 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Begs the question where is our dweeb of a chairman gone hiding? Haven’t heard a peep out of him for months and months..

Football & Rugby shirts don't just design themselves, you know . . . 

[lenred]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A good post but where we are getting 26.5k from? Was under the impression ground held 27k as a starting point and then work backwards from there.

Gould kept us in the loop quite well but people will have different views on this..it all feels a little rudderless on the exec side. A sense of drift.

Upper Lansdown would be nice but the kids area up there..directors Lower Lansdown hmm.

Fair point on the 1k from a financial perspective but to what extent does it give the opposition a major lift? Quite a good one IMO. Playing towards an end of your fairly noisy fans, across 3/4 of a stand, maybe slightly more. Mostly standing as a big group.

(Good luck getting them to sit).

Standing fans are on average I would suggest more likely to sing which in turn lifts their side and the two can feed off each other. If we got say 2 up first half hour, the equation would change drastically and their noise surely dissipates.

Where are we getting that we need over a quarter of the seats in the stand as segregation? Again you don’t see other clubs having to do this so why should we need to?

Edited August 21, 2023 by lenred

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, lenred said:

Where are we getting that we need over a quarter of the seats in the stand as segregation? Again you don’t see other clubs having to do this so why should we need to?

Valid but again my suspicion well I'm tired of saying it but a majorly overly risk averse SAG etc.

I also don't get where the 500 seats went, part of it could be an automatic 10 percent reduction in persistent standing areas to help with crowd safety but I'm only guessing.

Oh also what sort of impact would the usual segregation have on the police bill within Ashton Gate e.g. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[RedM]

From a financial point of view, who can afford to turn down money? If 3,000 away fans want to visit AG then we got to smile and grab their money.

If we were selling out and turning our own fans away then it would be a different matter, so rarely does that happen. Until then take the money.

[Baba Yaga]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Millwall may have been a one off for them, bigger sample size needed IMO due to the unique circs surrounding the sad passing of their owner and it being the first (League) home game of their sesson.

I do agree however- 2k, 2.5k tops, segregation, then as much as possible to our fans in the Atyeo would be my ideal medium term benchmark. Cup rules on allocation may make it a bit difficult but League sure.

Would have to be looked at again if we ever go up due to PL away allocation requirements which are 3k or 10 pct of capacity whichever is less.

Will the baggies even sell more than 2-2.5k since its their 3rd visit in 9 months? Would be quite impressed if they do.

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Valid but again my suspicion well I'm tired of saying it but a majorly overly risk averse SAG etc.

I also.dont get where the 500 seats went, part of it could be an automatic 10 percent reduction in persistent standing areas but I'm only guessing.

So the club need to challenge SAG then IF that’s the case with reasons given - ie every single other ‘ing club in the country do it so why can’t we!  Rovers stand right next to their away fans on the open end.   Why are we so different to SAG?  
I personally don’t think any of it is SAG - it’s the owners and that’s why these minutes of meetings are never available with much detail.  
They just want a sterile  atmosphere to bring in as much cash as possible. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by lenred

[lenred]

5 minutes ago, RedM said:

From a financial point of view, who can afford to turn down money? If 3,000 away fans want to visit AG then we got to smile and grab their money.

If we were selling out and turning our own fans away then it would be a different matter, so rarely does that happen. Until then take the money.

Fine.   What about the majority of games that don’t though?  Preston being the latest example.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

So the club need to challenge SAG then IF that’s the case with reasons given - ie every single other ‘ing club in the country do it so why can’t we!  Rovers stand right next to their away fans on the open end.   Why are we so different to SAG?  
I personally don’t think any of it is SAG - it’s the owners and that’s why these minutes of meetings are never available with much detail.  
They just want a sterile  atmosphere to bring in as much cash as possible. 

That could be the case, may be although maybe attitudes have changed internally at the club too because for a time we did have home and away fans segregated in the East End in modern times. The club did somewhat allow for it.

Policing bill, would be interesting to know. Such an area would of course have to be policed and or stewarded correctly.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[lenred]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That could be the case, may be although maybe attitudes have changed internally at the club too because for a time we did have home and away fans segregated in the East End in modern times. The club did somewhat allow for it.

Policing bill, would be interesting to know. Such an area would of course have to be policed and or stewarded correctly.

Barely any stewards at Brum and Swansea last season and Millwall this season and no police actually policing any line.  Just some netting / advertising banners or empty seats.  So why does there need to be at AG?  Are we saying that our fans are different to every other club? Really? 

Edited August 21, 2023 by lenred

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, lenred said:

Barely any stewards at Brum and Swansea last season and Millwall this season and no police actually policing any line.  Just some netting / advertising banners or empty seats.  So why does there need to be at AG?  Are we saying that our fans are different to every other club? Really? 

It's impossible to say the rationale or otherwise as the Safety Advisory Group seem not to have published anything since 2014! Rejected two FOIs too regarding it, grounds of public safety and or Commercial Confidentiality supposedly.

Millwall again who knows whether that will be the norm or was a one off but It is major overkill but haven't police bills at AG been quite big not that long ago.

[maxjak]

9 minutes ago, RedM said:

From a financial point of view, who can afford to turn down money? If 3,000 away fans want to visit AG then we got to smile and grab their money.

If we were selling out and turning our own fans away then it would be a different matter, so rarely does that happen. Until then take the money.

It;s NOT the three thousand away fans that are the problem?  It is where they are housed?     They are situated in an area that reflects their sound and creates a great volume of noise, which produces an atmosphere akin to a home match for them.   It's absurd:!, NP and Pring were drumming up the idea of a campaign last week....to make AG a fortress that intimidates the opposition...Ha!!    The football we have produced so far in home matches is more like an attempt to send us all into a coma?   The loyal home fans should be given first consideration as to where is the optimum place in the stadium for them to  generate the loudest and most encouraging wall of sound?  But instead priority is given to the away support..............it really is a Pheckin joke!

[Son of Fred]

29 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Will the baggies even sell more than 2-2.5k since its their 3rd visit in 9 months? Would be quite impressed if they do.

Only a 90 minute drive -

I'll be surprised if they don't sell out.

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's impossible to say the rationale or otherwise as the Safety Advisory Group seem not to have published anything since 2014! Rejected two FOIs too regarding it, grounds of public safety and or Commercial Confidentiality supposedly.

Millwall again who knows whether that will be the norm or was a one off but It is major overkill but haven't police bills at AG been quite big not that long ago.

Never realised about the FOI requests.   What an absolute piss take. Could the areas of special interest be redacted I wonder? 
I rant about it a lot I know but it just drives me spare that we as a club have become so bloody soft and that our owners do absolutely nothing about it - quite the opposite they actively encourage it.  It doesn’t have to be like the ‘good old days’ but there could still be an atmosphere at least.  I can’t believe managers don’t see it either other than Cotts - marginal gains and all that. 

[REDOXO]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looked up City news. Most of Atyeo again.

3,414 to West Brom. 

What a big advantage that promises to be. Well done- again. 

The only thing LJ ever said that I agreed with is the away end at AG gives visiting teams with large followings an extra lift. Villa always used to wrap visitors around the side.

Hey ho. At least there will be an atmosphere when we go two down!

[maxjak]

9 minutes ago, maxjak said:

It;s NOT the three thousand away fans that are the problem?  It is where they are housed?     They are situated in an area that reflects their sound and creates a great volume of noise, which produces an atmosphere akin to a home match for them.   It's absurd:!, NP and Pring were drumming up the idea of a campaign last week....to make AG a fortress that intimidates the opposition...Ha!!    The football we have produced so far in home matches is more like an attempt to send us all into a coma?   The loyal home fans should be given first consideration as to where is the optimum place in the stadium for them to  generate the loudest and most encouraging wall of sound?  But instead priority is given to the away support..............it really is a Pheckin joke!

You really are a very confused old/young Man....... Son of Sad...Ha!

[johnbytheriver]

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

You really are a very confused old/young Man....... Son of Sad...Ha!

NO HE'S NOT HE IS DEAD RIGHT!

[Harry]

It doesn’t matter where the ‘singing’ fans are situated. In my experience over the last 7-8 years, there’s only a couple of hundred who regularly bother to sing anyway. 
Stick them behind the goal - same 300 fans. Same noise. 
The location is a minor contributing factor. The main factor in a lack of atmosphere is that only a few hundred make any noise. 
 

I would rather see a full away end than a half full one. So I don’t mind giving them the full allocation. I thought Brum on Saturday were the loudest we’ve had down here in quite a while and fair play to ‘em. 
 

Would I rather City fans at both ends and away fans up in the gods? Yeah, of course. 
But no matter where the City fans are, if only 250 sing it ain’t gonna make any difference. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Harry

[FromeReds]

In my opinion, the solution to this is to put the away fans bottom right of the Lansdown (imagine a much bigger version of Bournemouth’s ground), then if there’s a big away following, give them the top right of the Lansdown too.  Minimal disruption to season ticket holders, as there aren’t too many currently in that section of the ground to rehome.  Home fans could then be behind both goals, S82 moving to the Atyeo. 

I appreciate this isn’t an overnight job, but should be our long term goal for next season to improve the atmosphere.

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

10 hours ago, lenred said:

We should be giving a block or two to our fans.  It’s that simple.  But as has been proven time and time and time again, the owners of this club just don’t seem to care about improving the atmosphere and just want an easy time of it.  Nearly every away ground we go to has home and away fans in the stand we are given - even Millwall now - but for some reason our owners don’t deem it possible.

The owners just want easy profit. 

[NcnsBcfc]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Valid but again my suspicion well I'm tired of saying it but a majorly overly risk averse SAG etc.

I also don't get where the 500 seats went, part of it could be an automatic 10 percent reduction in persistent standing areas to help with crowd safety but I'm only guessing.

Oh also what sort of impact would the usual segregation have on the police bill within Ashton Gate e.g. 

I actually think the capacity if AG is now somewhere around 26,400.

A number of seats have been taken out of stands to allow for the new disabled Supporter's areas.

The Man City attendance was 25,700. I think that was probably due to them having around 3700-3800 in the Atyeo.

As @CyderInACanand @Graham c can testify it's been a major bug bear of mine for years giving the whole Atyeo to.away fans. But I can't really see a way around it unfortunately. 

To segregate the stand, would mean separate turnstiles, internals and additional stewarding costs in the stand during the game. We would never financially make it worthwhile.

I'd rather stick them up in the gods, Upper Lansdown way (like we are at Sunderland. But that's the family area and that would once again need a load of money spent to make it safe (Lansdown stand not designed for that in any way).

All a bit of a mess at the moment. @Harry and @Kid in the Riot have posted on another topic our home record since the stadium redevelopment. I'm sure the way we manage this situation has had a major.impact on our results over that period.

[MelksRed]

12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looked up City news. Most of Atyeo again.

3,414 to West Brom. 

What a big advantage that promises to be. Well done- again. 

Money above all else.....they will never learn.

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I actually think the capacity if AG is now somewhere around 26,400.

A number of seats have been taken out of stands to allow for the new disabled Supporter's areas.

The Man City attendance was 25,700. I think that was probably due to them having around 3700-3800 in the Atyeo.

As @CyderInACanand @Graham c can testify it's been a major bug bear of mine for years giving the whole Atyeo to.away fans. But I can't really see a way around it unfortunately. 

To segregate the stand, would mean separate turnstiles, internals and additional stewarding costs in the stand during the game. We would never financially make it worthwhile.

I'd rather stick them up in the gods, Upper Lansdown way (like we are at Sunderland. But that's the family area and that would once again need a load of money spent to make it safe (Lansdown stand not designed for that in any way).

All a bit of a mess at the moment. @Harry and @Kid in the Riot have posted on another topic our home record since the stadium redevelopment. I'm sure the way we manage this situation has had a major.impact on our results over that period.

Ah so it is <27,000?

Thanks for this. I had heard it or remembered it from somewhere but was not sure where, but areas for Disabled Supporters areas?

Salient point then I guess, what is the maximum possible capacity for the Atyeo.

In theory for League subtract 2,000 then subtract segregation and the remainder home fans. LofifisfucK issues too of those that you state, ie the current profile of the Lansdown albeit @lenred suggests that segregation elsewhere is relatively minimal.

It may not be such a drain so much on current ticket prices, it all counts of course but it depends if we are aiming as close to break even as possible or accepting losses to some extent as a cost of doing business at this level.

Let's say an average away following of 2,500. You cap it to 2k, 500 x 30 x 23..£345,000 over a season. Then a question then is how many can we squeeze into home ends. Even say I dunno 200 x £25 x 23..£230,000.

Would be POTD or ST only? If the latter feel free to revise accordingly. 

Clearly cost of stewarding would have to increase, a big unknown is the cost of policing which is much more expensive. Say another 30 stewards at £11 per hour. Add costs of £56,925 if x 23.

Basically £170-180k a year. Not that material at this level but again it depends how far we are looking to push sustainability.

That should change down the line as and when the T.V. distribution, the Parachute and the soft wage cap as a ratio of revenue kick in but until then..well you tell me.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Thinking about it my figures are a bit sketchy hut if we accept certain losses for the greater good, I dunno exactly but the balance just doesn't seem entirely right.

It's a huge advantage to potentially gift to an away side. A proportion of clubs however do not fill even the 2k allocation.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[sglosbcfc]

After far too many seasons of watching City in the third tier where the majority of clubs cannot even muster 1000 travelling fans, I love it in the Championship where over half the clubs are capable of filling the away end. We'd be nuts not to take the money generated by 3500 away fans. As regards any advantage, the noisy away following should inspire us to sing louder. It will be another 20,000 + crowd v WBA, let us roar on the reds.

[red84]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

It doesn’t matter where the ‘singing’ fans are situated. In my experience over the last 7-8 years, there’s only a couple of hundred who regularly bother to sing anyway. 
Stick them behind the goal - same 300 fans. Same noise. 
The location is a minor contributing factor. The main factor in a lack of atmosphere is that only a few hundred make any noise. 
 

I would rather see a full away end than a half full one. So I don’t mind giving them the full allocation. I thought Brum on Saturday were the loudest we’ve had down here in quite a while and fair play to ‘em. 
 

Would I rather City fans at both ends and away fans up in the gods? Yeah, of course. 
But no matter where the City fans are, if only 250 sing it ain’t gonna make any difference. 

Spot on and been going on longer than 7-8 years! Remember all those people moaning when the atyeo was the home end and the noise 'got lost' because the roof wasn't pitched right! City can easily out sing the away end but only rare occasions everyone actually joins in.

[Rob k]

27 minutes ago, red84 said:

Spot on and been going on longer than 7-8 years! Remember all those people moaning when the atyeo was the home end and the noise 'got lost' because the roof wasn't pitched right! City can easily out sing the away end but only rare occasions everyone actually joins in.

Exactly - when we had the Atyeo people wanted to be in the East End, people were always moaning about the atmosphere in there. It’s not a difficult fix either, move the signing section to A block Dolman and it would be better. However we also have a crap atmosphere because we also have crap songs these days!! 

[Peter1450]

15 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

Will the baggies even sell more than 2-2.5k since its their 3rd visit in 9 months? Would be quite impressed if they do.

Why wouldn’t they come for a great day out in their favourite part of the country? The big plus is that it’s probably a nailed on away win if recent home form is anything to go by!

[the frampton balti]

Rather somebody made some noise than nobody

Why are we so bothered about passionate away fans taking our seats when we dont even bother turning up.

Empty seats everwhere

[headhunter]

20 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The CEO seems to be a man of few words too.

He was known as Teflon Phil at Palace as nothing stuck on him amidst the *hitstorm associated with the club twice going into admin, i.e. keeps a low profile (CP's financial problems not his fault in fairness). 

Btw, his forte is "commercial deals", nothing on the playing side like MA

 

[pongo88]

15 hours ago, maxjak said:

It;s NOT the three thousand away fans that are the problem?  It is where they are housed?     They are situated in an area that reflects their sound and creates a great volume of noise, which produces an atmosphere akin to a home match for them.   It's absurd:!, NP and Pring were drumming up the idea of a campaign last week....to make AG a fortress that intimidates the opposition...Ha!!    The football we have produced so far in home matches is more like an attempt to send us all into a coma?   The loyal home fans should be given first consideration as to where is the optimum place in the stadium for them to  generate the loudest and most encouraging wall of sound?  But instead priority is given to the away support..............it really is a Pheckin joke!

I think the view that the Atyeo Stand design generates more noise is a myth. I can remember when home fans were in the Atyeo they complained that the design of the stand allowed the noise to escape!