Where is our CEO...who is he?

[Sir Geoff]

3 hours ago, headhunter said:

I posted this on Palace forum earlier this year and it is clear from this [and in another thread from summer 22 when he resigned] that PA's skill is on commercial opportunities not player contracts:  https://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=106&tid=181641 

A little worrying that a CEO of obvious standing but not on player contracts was "leading" the negotiations on the sale for our prized asset - who's telling the truth here, PA or SL

When the deal was done SL said we achieved "asking price" which is the £25M but for all we know that could be £18M plus £7M in add ons - we did after all sell Alex in a "crocked" state and our desire to get this over the line to fund the acquisitions made "in advance" may have played a part in all of this 

That was my big take from the interview. It was almost as though Lansdown was desperate to sell Scott and the longer it went on he would take any deal / offer that took the total to around £25m. Also I don't recall SL or PA actually confirming that the deal was £25m. Tins said Scott was worth more than £25m but for all we know Lansdown may have caved at £20m.

[fisherrich]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

That was my big take from the interview. It was almost as though Lansdown was desperate to sell Scott and the longer it went on he would take any deal / offer that took the total to around £25m. Also I don't recall SL or PA actually confirming that the deal was £25m. Tins said Scott was worth more than £25m but for all we know Lansdown may have caved at £20m.

Probably staged payments also. Lansdown’s track record with anything to do with football is crap

Edited September 5, 2023 by fisherrich

[Sir Geoff]

3 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

Probably staged payments also. His track record with anything to do with football is crap

And Alexander alluded to bonus amount / add ons. I guess appearance based, staying up. Question is though is that part of the £25m package or additional.

[The Journalist]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I think in this case it doesn’t appear to have just been a ‘final sign off’. 
The impression Phil gave was that he was “leading” the negotiations but that Steve was “very much involved all along the way”. 
 

He also said that the talks had been going on for a long period of time. 
So we can assume from this that there was a lot of back and forth between clubs and agents, and given that Steve was involved all through the process this wasn’t just a final ratification from Steve. 
 

It gives the impression that after every phone call Phil had to run it past Steve. 
“Hi, Wolves here. How does £18m + £3m add ons sound?”  
“Ok. I’ll check with Steve”. “Steve says No”. 
 

“Hi Bournemouth here. How does £18m + £4m add ons sound?”  
“Ok, I’ll check with Steve”. “Steve says no”. 

Etc etc….. 
 

I’m happy with Steve setting an overall financial target for the club. And I’m also happy with him putting a valuation on assets. If he says “we value Scott at £25m”, then he should leave it to the other important people he’s put in place to conduct those negotiations. 
 

Him being directly involved “all through the lengthy process” on this one smacks to me of a bloke who wanted to do the best for Guernsey as much as he wanted to do the best for City. 

One thing that also came through from that interview - and I appreciate many fans felt this was the case anyway, but it being put across publicly to the media is a different thing - was that the club wanted to sell Alex.

From that, the Alex money had already been spent prior to his departure, him staying would've cost the owner a considerable amount of cash as a result, the owner was closely involved during the process of the sale and those negotiations went on for several months... that's very different to setting a price and waiting for a club to match it.

And, again, while we all know the optics haven't been great for a while around transfers/the manager's future I just feel like the chief executive hasn't made it any better in that interview. And I can't pretend I don't feel just a bit disappointed by the whole thing?

Just for clarity, I don't consider myself a typical forum moaner/a grass is always greener on the other side type. I've always been a supporter of the owner - I still am, really - and I can always forgive poor decision making when it's made in good faith or for the right reasons. Nobody is perfect and I do believe he's really tried to get us promoted to the Premier League during his tenure, that he does genuinely want to leave the club in a good place.

But it's hard not to be slightly despondent about the direction of travel off the pitch, isn't it?

We've sold our two best players for a combined £30-35m in the past nine months and, despite the "what football brings in, football can spend" mantra that's been trotted out publicly even in recent interviews, we've recruited, almost exclusively, players surplus to requirements at Championship clubs or out of League One and League Two during that timeframe.

That's not to say our recruitment has been a disaster, I do like some of the players we've brought in, but the team that started at Swansea contained just two - one of those a loanee signed as injury cover, according to the chief executive - who weren't with us 12 months ago... when Alex and Antoine were still part of our squad.

Of course, the strategy now is to emulate a club - Luton - who've achieved promotion on a shoestring budget against all odds.

I mean... actually where is the logic there? It was against all odds for a reason - it's unlikely to be repeated again in a hurry! And I can't imagine they spent the past two years telling all and sundry that promotion was the aim, being around the top six was the expectation and that worst teams than them had done it either.

And, to top all of it off, the board could barely be more visibly uncomfortable with Nigel as manager - they give the impression that any success, past, present or future, has been and will be in spite of him rather than because of him. The chief executive refusing to talk about a prospective new contract on the radio I can live with, but the club refusing to give any clear public backing to one of the most popular managers we've had in the past decade is tone deaf at best. At very best.

After all that - and taking a deep breath - can we still have a successful season? Yeah, we can. Could we even do the unthinkable and get promoted if things go our way? Absolutely. It's football, weird shit happens.

But if the above happens it won't be in spite of Nigel, it'll be in spite of his employers at this point IMO.

Edited September 5, 2023 by The Journalist

[tin]

12 hours ago, Ian M said:

I am still digesting tonight's interview and a few things don't add up for me:

• Earlier in the summer, Brian Tinnion stated that there was a Plan A for recruitment if Alex stayed and a Plan B for recruitment if Alex was sold.
• Meanwhile, Pearson, said in answer to the press that the signing of Jason Knight was to play with Alex and not in place of him.
• However, Alex Scott was sold to Bournemouth in August for £25m.
• Following that sale, when the press asked Pearson for comment, he seemed genuinely annoyed/upset by the decision and said “it was the club that sold him” insinuating he was not pleased, almost sulky at the time.
• Since that sale, Bristol City signed just one player on loan, a midfielder capable of covering at full-back due to a long-term injury to Ross McCrorie.
• We have also since learned that the wage budget was set in March of this year, several months ahead of selling Alex and that we have maxed that and cannot sign anyone else.
• Tonight on Radio Bristol, Phil Alexander, the club’s CEO, revealed that the club was always working towards that budget set in March and that we had bought early to pre-spend the money that selling Alex would bring in. He also stated that TGH was not planned for and was a response to injuries.

Based on these facts, it is difficult to determine whether Tinnion and Pearson were complicit in misleading fans or whether they were misled themselves. However, it is clear that there is a discrepancy between what was said earlier in the summer and what has been revealed tonight. It is up to fans to decide what they believe based on these facts.

Excellent post. For me, Nige has been as straight as a dye with us whenever he’s been interviewed and I have no doubt Tinnion has the club’s best interests at heart. The fact both of them were singing off the same hymn sheet speaks volumes.

Reading between the lines, I think it’s pretty clear the goalposts have been  moved since March and there were not two separate budgets set in March (one with Scott, one without). 

What I also found interesting is that PA insisted it was a risk for SL to bring in four players before we received the Scott cash, completely ignoring the £10m we brought in from Semenyo. PA also made is very clear IMO that SL is responsible for every decision, right down to the details of the Scott deal. 

SL is misleading people and cowardly dodging explaining his rationale. Either that or he’s losing his marbles. If he no longer wants to invest, he can’t sell up soon enough IMO. 

[RedRoss]

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I've been giving the board the benefit of the doubt recently - hell, I feel like I've been writing their PR on OTIB at times...

But I have to say, despite being onboard with the strategy to build and be more 'sustainable' (within realistic limits) the discrepancies between words and actions, as others have pointed out, is plain to see.

And the different messaging from board and manager, worrying to see. 

I'd still like to partially reserve judgement until the next few windows, however...as others have said, 'put up or get out' - a middle ground longer term simply doesn't work.

I don't have the anger towards SL that many do, but I share many of the same frustrations - I'm more than OK with him selling up. But I still think we are in a damn good position as a club right now (admittedly largely in spite of SL at times) but he would leave without me throwing a huge party.

You could argue we are at a bit of a crossroads moment, potentially on the cusp of something special, where a lot of these foundations could also be washed away if we don't make the right decisions going forward - investment, manager.. we can't be viewed as "treading water" from inside or outside the club. If we stand still we go backwards. 

Whatever happens though, it seems we are very much at the beginning of the end for the Lansdowns at the club. 

Exactly the same from me. I've somewhat felt like his PR rep recently.

I'm not angry per se with Steve because unlike others I can reflect on all the progress he's done for our club since his arrival. His decisions haven't always been the best in regards to employing the best people for footballing reasons but his intentions I believe were coming from the right place. Infrastructure wise he's been amazing for this football club and I won't forget or just dismiss that huge investment as some fans do 'it means nothing to him as he's a billionaire' ect

However it's the insistence on play offs/promotion as the key objective of the club when the likelihood of that happening without additional support from him (doesn't have to be like MA's splurge) but a slight loosening of the purse strings this is very unlikely to happen. I know he references Luton for promotion and so have I for different reasons i.e sustainability but in reality that sort of outcome is very rare. He and us basically can't have our cake and eat it.

He can't pursue with going from one extreme to the other. Changes were ultimately needed when they did but it would be foolish to continue with this austerity as however good the recruitment has or will be..money is normally the ultimate factor for success.

It's fine if he wants to sell up and can't find a buyer currently but rather than that wishy-washy interview he had a few months back when he briefly mentioned seeking investment just tell the fans the truth. They might not agree or be happy but they'll respect the honestly nonetheless.

Finally if he's seeking investment but ultimately wants to retain a majority stake this is insane and no wonder he can't find a buyer.

 

[Old Sodbury Red Evs]

17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Huboo was an apparent record sponsorship but will be interesting when the accounts are out.

Record across Bristol Sport maybe, it will be very interesting how much is apportioned to BCFC

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Evs said:

Record across Bristol Sport maybe, it will be very interesting how much is apportioned to BCFC

Thanks.

Would hope as the biggest earner that the largest proportion defo would be to here but time will tell.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Lrrr]

35 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

for all we know Lansdown may have caved at £20m

It was fairly well reported that it was £25m if the likes of SSN had got wind it was £20m I imagine they’d have reported it as such 

[And Its Smith]

4 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I reckon Nige and co were misled too. He seemed really annoyed about AS going, plus SL said he was in charge of the sale, which I took to mean it was my decision, end of.

I thought there was a plan B too. 

Pearson basically said we will sell at £25m which we did so not sure he was misled. More likely just annoyed someone had bid that amount 

[Stevesthename]

Equally if Pearson had said we had to sell as already spent the money then no way would we have got as much as we did.

Also people are forgetting that pre semenyo sale we were in the red big time enough to possibly get a points deduction 

[Bristol Oil Services]

Be interesting to see, or know, what the funding is for that nice Mr Lam and his lads this coming season. Steve "building that nest egg" in that wing of BS?

[phantom]

1 minute ago, Stevesthename said:

Also people are forgetting that pre semenyo sale we were in the red big time enough to possibly get a points deduction 

That was always denied by the club, only mentioned as fact on social media

[Merrick's Marvels]

10 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Be interesting to see, or know, what the funding is for that nice Mr Lam and his lads this coming season. Steve "building that nest egg" in that wing of BS?

He splashed it on a big Argie - who's done his ACL and will be out for most of the season!!!!!!

Presumably this "HPC" thing actually stands for High Percentage of Crocks.

(We already know what BS stands for and it ain't Bristol Sport)

Edited September 5, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Mr Popodopolous]

As we can see in 2022, The Rugby club required zero cash or equity investment. Zero.

How it looks in other prior years well others can look. Rugby also has some kind of Salary Cap.

Football is a bit of a bottomless pit especially with the distortions at this level.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Harry]

58 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Is that based on anything specific or just a hunch?

Spidey senses.

Just a hunch. But as per the reasons I’ve given, one with an understandable rationale. 
It just looks so obvious to me. This was his personal crusade. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yep, very similar scenario.

A silent owner, looking to sell the club, who decides to turn the taps off, leaving a gruff, old school manager to carry the can while his best players are sold from under him.

Ended well for Ipswich didn't it.

Going alright, under the new owner. And, er, their new CEO ....

[And Its Smith]

Any implication he is underfunding city due to the rugby club is naive 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Given his strong personal views he really should be querying the Stoke position quire strongly with the League..their exploitation of the Covid loopholes is egregiously bad.

Nottingham Forest were middling but had major sales of academy players to fall back on in arguing a case as did we had the 2022 position been an issue but the Stoke City Holdings accounts for 2019-20, 2020-21 have to be read in depth to be believed, they were egregiously bad.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[mozo]

12 hours ago, Harry said:

Don’t blame the messenger. It’s quite clear who’s calling the shots and who are the fall guys. 

It makes you wonder why he took the CEO role then?? Is accountancy his hobby so he joined for that?

The most exciting things happening at Bristol City are transfers, potential investors and the Bristol Sport development. If he isn't involved with much of that, what excited a man with his experience about this role?

The commercial side was already under control so again not much to do there?

11 hours ago, Ashtongreight said:

Is Nige still registered to play?, and Tinns for that matter…

If Nige wants to bring wild dogs over from Romania to play in our midfield would they get a work visa...?

5 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

In the corporate world, a CEO having to check with the majority shareholder over every deal just doesnt happen. Too hands on still, but then it’s his money isn’t it as we keep being told. Clear that there is a loss of appetite with a hope to being able to fluke the Luton model which is like saying I hope to win the lottery next year! 

 

4 hours ago, lenred said:

Amazing that this is our ‘aim’ now isn’t it - to emulate a club getting shafted every week. Never mind though - the clone club will change again next season to whoever is successful this year -  as was eloquently put by someone earlier in the thread! 

But think of Luton's balance sheet. They'll break even for a good couple of years now *warm tingly feeling*. That's what football's all about isn't it?

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, mozo said:

But think of Luton's balance sheet. They'll break even for a good couple of years now *warm tingly feeling*. That's what football's all about isn't it?

That is the tail wagging the dog tbh, football shouldn't be reliant on wealthy owners keeping the entity (club) solvent. Certainly not at £25-30m turnover for a club like us.

 Bit different with Luton, building a ground doing things correctly so finance is somewhat squeezed in other areas.

I don't get excited by a good Balance Sheet but as and when the new Football Regulator kicks in, some clubs may have to fundamentally rethink their Business model.

For some a double whammy, when the football Gambling restrictions kick in whatever will Bet365 er I mean Stoke do!

Edited September 5, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That is the tail wagging the dog tbh, football shouldn't be reliant on eeslrnt owners keeping the entity (club) solvent.  Certainly not at the £25-30m.

 Bit different with Luton, building a ground doing things correctly so finance is somewhat squeezed in other areas.

I don't get excited by a good Balance Sheet but as and when the new Football Regulator kicks in, some clubs may have to fundamentally rethink their Business model.

For some a double whammy, when the football Gambling restrictions kick in whatever will Bet365 er I mean Stoke do!

I think Mozo was being sarcastic Mr P!

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, lenred said:

I think Mozo was being sarcastic Mr P!

Oh yes I got the sarcasm for sure!

"Never mind the Beautiful Game, applaud and marvel at the Beautiful Balance Sheet!"

That said, a model whereby ever increasing amounts of cash need pouring in to stand still is somewhat ludicrous.

The new Regulator, one possibility is that TV money or similar will be weighted by how sustainable a club is. Or Fair Game.

Is that the gist @ExiledAjax ?

Edited September 5, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

And Alexander alluded to bonus amount / add ons. I guess appearance based, staying up. Question is though is that part of the £25m package or additional.

PA said appearances by Alex and performances by Bournemouth.

The best we’ll be able to do is make some best guesses in the 22/23 accounts by looking at the notes to things that happened after the end of the season or wait until 23/24 accounts come out!!!

1 hour ago, The Journalist said:

One thing that also came through from that interview - and I appreciate many fans felt this was the case anyway, but it being put across publicly to the media is a different thing - was that the club wanted to sell Alex.

From that, the Alex money had already been spent prior to his departure, him staying would've cost the owner a considerable amount of cash as a result, the owner was closely involved during the process of the sale and those negotiations went on for several months... that's very different to setting a price and waiting for a club to match it.

And, again, while we all know the optics haven't been great for a while around transfers/the manager's future I just feel like the chief executive hasn't made it any better in that interview. And I can't pretend I don't feel just a bit disappointed by the whole thing?

I guess there are some angles to the bit in bold:

• How much would it have cost our P&L?  Answer: £25m (or whatever the fee was).
• How much would it have affected Cashflow? Answer: Depends on the payment terms, but I heard stories of wanting £10m at the first payment.  If that’s accurate then it’s £10m this year.
• How much has he risked / had to fork out for players by pre-empting the sale?  Answer: £1.210m this year as Knight, McCrorie and Dickie’s costs are spread throughout their contract term.  You could possibly add £0.700m loan fee for TGH….so let’s call it £2.000m.  That risk of £2m might’ve been mitigated in January too.  So it wasn’t much of a risk, certainly not worth portraying it as such.

 

@spudski ta for the video.  The cynic Fevs watched it thinking.

Dave likes Football as a kid, dad helped buy me some boots, kit, etc

Dave likes Golf at 18, Dave saved up his wages and bought a half-set, a bag etc

Dave likes holidays, Dave saves up and books a Club1830 to Ipsos

It’s worlds apart.

Jon likes football, dad buys him a football club

Steve likes golf, he buys himself a golf resort

Steve likes holidays, he buys himself a Safari resort

Fair play to the bloke, but I can’t sit there and watch / listen and think he has any real understanding of a football fan.  Apologies if this comes across as jealous.

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Any implication he is underfunding city due to the rugby club is naive   Le Grande Mare could have legs!

[Riaz]

17 hours ago, eardun said:

Interview was pretty clear and unsurprising: 

- recruitment before the sale of Scott was on the budget assumption that Scott would be sold.

- they didn’t want to do the recruitment after Scott’s sale as hinders negotiation position re recruitment.

- therefore SL was taking the financial risk on this buy now pay later strategy, ie if the Scott deal couldn’t be done, the budget would be blown so SL would have to put more money in.

- the Scott deal was done so we are as per the budget.

- up to SL to determine how much he wants to fund (lose!); too early to tell what the position will be in Jan. 

So my view on this is clearly SL doesn’t want to fund as much as he might have in the past. However I don’t think it necessarily follows that he won’t open the cheque book a bit more in Jan if we are looking promising for top 6 (or have more injuries - TGH was brought in because of injuries). I also don’t think you can make a leap one way or the other re NP’s future. Personally I think everyone is waiting to see how we progress during the season. I doubt NP is as bothered about that as some on here. 
 

Bit of a contradiction there.

You just said it - SL gave us the money to make signings BEFORE the alex scott sale and if it didnt happen, SL would have plugged that gap in the finances.

So he was willing to put more money in, if needed?

[CyderInACan]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Any implication he is underfunding city due to the rugby club is naive   Le Grande Mare could have legs!

He's having a very grand mare to be honest!

[ExiledAjax]

30 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh yes I got the sarcasm for sure!

"Never mind the Beautiful Game, applaud and marvel at the Beautiful Balance Sheet!"

That said, a model whereby ever increasing amounts of cash need pouring in to stand still is somewhat ludicrous.

The new Regulator, one possibility is that TV money or similar will be weighted by how sustainable a club is. Or Fair Game.

Is that the gist @ExiledAjax ?

That is the gist of what we are going for, although that is not what is being "crystallised". I think there he's referring to discussions between the EFL and PL about restructuring the current distribution/replacing PP. That will just be cash and will almost certainly be based on league position because how could football ever think anything else is important.

We are still a long way from a regulator imposing a different way of distributing cash.

[frenchred]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

PA said appearances by Alex and performances by Bournemouth.

The best we’ll be able to do is make some best guesses in the 22/23 accounts by looking at the notes to things that happened after the end of the season or wait until 23/24 accounts come out!!!

I guess there are some angles to the bit in bold:

• How much would it have cost our P&L?  Answer: £25m (or whatever the fee was).
• How much would it have affected Cashflow? Answer: Depends on the payment terms, but I heard stories of wanting £10m at the first payment.  If that’s accurate then it’s £10m this year.
• How much has he risked / had to fork out for players by pre-empting the sale?  Answer: £1.210m this year as Knight, McCrorie and Dickie’s costs are spread throughout their contract term.  You could possibly add £0.700m loan fee for TGH….so let’s call it £2.000m.  That risk of £2m might’ve been mitigated in January too.  So it wasn’t much of a risk, certainly not worth portraying it as such.

 

@spudski ta for the video.  The cynic Fevs watched it thinking.

Dave likes Football as a kid, dad helped buy me some boots, kit, etc

Dave likes Golf at 18, Dave saved up his wages and bought a half-set, a bag etc

Dave likes holidays, Dave saves up and books a Club1830 to Ipsos

It’s worlds apart.

Jon likes football, dad buys him a football club

Steve likes golf, he buys himself a golf resort

Steve likes holidays, he buys himself a Safari resort

Fair play to the bloke, but I can’t sit there and watch / listen and think he has any real understanding of a football fan.  Apologies if this comes across as jealous.

It doesn't come across as jealousy, we all do what we can for our kids

It just proves how far detached he is from the fan base and the quicker he goes the better

[exAtyeoMax]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

PA said appearances by Alex and performances by Bournemouth.

The best we’ll be able to do is make some best guesses in the 22/23 accounts by looking at the notes to things that happened after the end of the season or wait until 23/24 accounts come out!!!

I guess there are some angles to the bit in bold:

• How much would it have cost our P&L?  Answer: £25m (or whatever the fee was).
• How much would it have affected Cashflow? Answer: Depends on the payment terms, but I heard stories of wanting £10m at the first payment.  If that’s accurate then it’s £10m this year.
• How much has he risked / had to fork out for players by pre-empting the sale?  Answer: £1.210m this year as Knight, McCrorie and Dickie’s costs are spread throughout their contract term.  You could possibly add £0.700m loan fee for TGH….so let’s call it £2.000m.  That risk of £2m might’ve been mitigated in January too.  So it wasn’t much of a risk, certainly not worth portraying it as such.

 

@spudski ta for the video.  The cynic Fevs watched it thinking.

Dave likes Football as a kid, dad helped buy me some boots, kit, etc

Dave likes Golf at 18, Dave saved up his wages and bought a half-set, a bag etc

Dave likes holidays, Dave saves up and books a Club1830 to Ipsos

It’s worlds apart.

Jon likes football, dad buys him a football club

Steve likes golf, he buys himself a golf resort

Steve likes holidays, he buys himself a Safari resort

Fair play to the bloke, but I can’t sit there and watch / listen and think he has any real understanding of a football fan.  Apologies if this comes across as jealous.

I don't think I actually did one of those. Intasun went bust the day before we were due to go… (I remember thinking, once upon a time, that 30 is really old!!)

I don't mind rich people investing in stuff, for them or their kids but they have to do it for the right reasons, and in the right way. I guess you don't know that until you've involved yourself in those kinds of enterprises.