Pearson Post Match

[FNQ]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67204097

it gets worse…

[alexukhc]

Robins to us and Eustace to Cov I can see

I don’t want NP to go no way, we are in a good position and this looks like the hardest championship we have ever seen.

If he goes could it be he’s set up some foundations for us to become a better team in the future? Like setting up Leicester to win the premier league?  

No one else would be ballsy enough to blood as much youngsters as he has throughout the squad, he’s been great for us.

Ideally I’d like him to work in a more upstairs role with Tinnion and keep the management team we have,  but if he leaves/ pushed I think we will be back to days of Derek McInnes and that was awful.

Anyway onto Ipswich, we have to beat them and Swiss Tony

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

On 23/10/2023 at 09:57, 2015 said:

It's not just about NP leaving it's the fact we all know his replacement will be extremely underwhelming and all progression made under NP will be for nothing.

 

I genuinely don't recognise this as fact.

IF (and it's still if) Nige leaves then I think anyone coming in will benefit from Nige's legacy. The club has gone through a transition which NP has been very much part of. However, the Academy which is an undeniable shining light for BCFC is not down to Nige, it's been a work in progress for many years and this progression will not change as a result of a new Manager.

As for the next head coach/manager( whatever the incarnation is) being 'extremely underwhelming'  this is and will always be subjective until such time as they prove you right or alternatively exceed most supporter's expectations as SC did.

[Northern Red]

9 minutes ago, FNQ said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67204097

it gets worse…

Good to see the BBC have caught up to something the Post ran 2 days ago.

[FNQ]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

Good to see the BBC have caught up to something the Post ran 2 days ago.

Yea I know.. it just felt a bit sad and a bit more real when the BBC themselves said that they contacted the club but got a ‘no comment’

[Riaz]

15 minutes ago, alexukhc said:

Robins to us and Eustace to Cov I can see

I don’t want NP to go no way, we are in a good position and this looks like the hardest championship we have ever seen.

If he goes could it be he’s set up some foundations for us to become a better team in the future? Like setting up Leicester to win the premier league?  

No one else would be ballsy enough to blood as much youngsters as he has throughout the squad, he’s been great for us.

Ideally I’d like him to work in a more upstairs role with Tinnion and keep the management team we have,  but if he leaves/ pushed I think we will be back to days of Derek McInnes and that was awful.

Anyway onto Ipswich, we have to beat them and Swiss Tony

Why would Robins leave Coventry?

[Hartleysbeard]

7 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Yea I know.. it just felt a bit sad and a bit more real when the BBC themselves said that they contacted the club but got a ‘no comment’

The BBC referred to here could simply mean BBC Radio Bristol, i.e. Sound of the City show

[Numero Uno]

14 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I genuinely don't recognise this as fact.

IF (and it's still if) Nige leaves then I think anyone coming in will benefit from Nige's legacy. The club has gone through a transition which NP has been very much part of. However, the Academy which is an undeniable shining light for BCFC is not down to Nige, it's been a work in progress for many years and this progression will not change as a result of a new Manager.

As for the next head coach/manager( whatever the incarnation is) being 'extremely underwhelming'  this is and will always be subjective until such time as they prove you right or alternatively exceed most supporter's expectations as SC did.

The Academy do take credit obviously for bringing lads through BUT and it’s a huge BUT you still need a first team manager and coaching staff prepared to blood youngsters and convert the promise into achievement in MENS football. That is another process in itself. The Academy does not produce ready made MENS players. Yeboah is a great example, you can see what the kid has got but he’s still wet behind the ears in some respects (albeit I’m amazed a 17 year old does the defensive work he does tbf). Nige is prepared to let him learn on the job even when it’s his cock on the block.

To do the above and convert the youth it takes recognition in the first place of who can mix it with the men, patience and bravery whilst people on here are panicking and suggesting Bell should go out on loan etc. Bring in the wrong manager and our Academy will quickly return to where it’s often been and we will see loans galore to lower league football again.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

For me, the acid test of a manager is whether they leave the club in a better position overall than when they found it. That includes finances, squad size, everything.
Certainly true for NP. Can it be said about many others for the entirety of the club?

 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

For me, the acid test of a manager is whether they leave the club in a better position overall than when they found it. That includes finances, squad size, everything.
Certainly true for NP. Can it be said about many others for the entirety of the club?

 

It’s exactly what the Leicester fans told us would happen.

[Hartleysbeard]

I don’t think either side is without fault in this situation. NP remains a prickly character and whilst I like what he’s building and would like for him to stay on, it’s a constant irritation to me that he remains so obtuse. He’s nearing the end of a three year contract and ought to be judged much nearer the end of this season, not a quarter of the way through it. That being said, if we’re miles off the play offs come the end of 2023, I’d support a change of direction to enable building for 2024/25 season. Ultimately he’s come in to help achieve playoffs within the agreed tenure, and if we aren’t making progress towards that, then it’s right he goes. Personally I think we are making that progress, but that’s more of a holistic view on the squad balance and playing identity  than solely on the results. Based on results…had we lost (you might say deservedly so) at the weekend, then we’d be on 15 points in 17th place. That, on face value, is not really the progress we expected to be making is it? But again that swing between 8th—17th just shows that it’s too early to make any real judgment this season. 
 

As for the owners, they’re letting themselves down with poor communication and by apparently trying to interfere with the football operation by questioning team selection (although I still can’t find any reference to this interview with Sky Sports anywhere?). But, how do we know either way what they’re saying about potential of a new contract? Maybe there are some KPIs in place that, once achieved, do trigger an extension? Or perhaps they want to see where we’re at come the end of the season? That’s not unreasonable. And none of this needs to be in the public domain. Nigel, by bringing it up in this way, has done himself no favours in my opinion. He’s clearly said he’ll honour his contract, and perhaps the club are happy to do so too? 
 

It feels like a lot of speculation at this point. I hope it blows over. 
 

whatever is going on, let your support tomorrow be focussed on the team and not directing ire towards the board or indeed our former CEO. Get behind the boys; if we can get a result against an inform Ipswich, then that can only help Nige’s case for a new deal. 
 

COYR

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Thoughts:

NP should carry on unless he can't.

agree, and he’s said he has done so with a few minor adjustments.

SL is right not to offer a new contract until the season is all but over. It then may be time for a change as it proves the case with the majority of Championship clubs but any change guarantees nothing. The relationship between employer and employee may have been broken beyond repair but there are no doubt two sides to this situation which no one on here knows fully beyond speculation, rumour and agenda.

Ignoring health - for me, that’s leaving it too late. There’s two windows to plan for (Jan and Summer), existing player contracts to sort, etc.

Just because there is a current swell of fans wanting Nige to succeed doesn't mean he can or will. OTIB does not always exactly mirror the rank and file of ST holders/regular fans who do not frequent these pages. I thought it slightly ironic that there are calls to sing NP's name throughout the match tomorrow after two and a half years of very very rarely singing his name.

haha, cracks me up too…we even sing Johnson songs with Nige in charge.

The premise from some that NP is the only manager who is right for City is ,imo, ridiculous. Those saying he is the 'best Manager since Alan Dicks' are measuring NP on some weird scale likely based on rebuilding/inheriting a mess which would make him the best Manager since Sean O'Driscoll using that same scale. It also does a disservice to Gary Johnson, John Ward, Joe Jordan and Steve Cotterill and Terry Cooper in particular who all actually won something- some of whom had no better circumstances than Nige. People are quick to forget that Lee Johnson was the only Manager given seemingly unlimited resources albeit that his best players were still always sold.

agree to some extent…I think for many that it feels like he’s got us into a good position to kick-on and then had the drawbridge lifted.  And I think that rankles.  I go back to Alan Dicks days, the only manager to do a consistent job at this level since is GJ imho.

I don't see BCFC as the basket case depicted by others. I don't see Nige as the only person on the planet that can take City forward yet any change ,however calculated, is always a roll of the dice.

certainly not a basket case, but was on a crappy trajectory.  I can only hope that the person who replaces Nige whenever that is, builds upon what he’s done, because it finally feels like there are solid foundations.  The clamour for a “modern” coach is bollocks in my opinion.  The clamour should be for the best manager, the right manager, regardless of age, experience.

Good reply, ta, some comments above.

2 hours ago, Jeez said:

This thread is going a bit OTT about Pearson.  

Nigel is a strong & vocal advocate of players earning their next contract and letting them run down to end of season. So it’s a bit hypocritical for him to get antsy & call out the club for doing the same.

IMO Nigel should be managing up as well as down the club. If he could do that, this thread doesn’t exist.

I like him & what he’s done for the club, but part of me does think that in principle maybe the club are right to see where we are at the end of the season. Anything sooner than that would be savage.

Yes, I’m just as aware an anyone on here about the limitations & him not being backed and I too don’t have much faith in the clubs ability to source the next manager.

Shame it’s coming to this as I would personally stick but I won’t be losing too much sleep either. 

That is somewhat open to scrutiny, because most of those players were on pre-covid contracts…where their value had gone and knew they would have to take a big paycut, so we’re themselves dragging it out.  Nige just placating the situation imho.

2 hours ago, mozo said:

So you don't think we'd go as established as a Rowett or Eustace, but fishing around for an up and coming, inexperienced and unproven manager from lower down the ladder?

I don’t know.

I doubt either were in our plan, but plans can react???

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Surely this is a two way street in that in the last 20 years no Manager has had such a rich resource of realistic first team prospects from the Academy?

Nige has been excellent at utilising this resource sometimes through pure necessity but more often because he has chosen to based on merit.

Think it comes down to restricted budget / sorting out the losses too.  When decisions have needed to be taken you can imagine the conversations about signing someone on £8k p.w. against an academy player not yet that good but Nige happy to go with it.  Despite Nige’s talk of working with a small squad we saw this summer the strive to get some depth.  As it’s panned out it’s still not deep enough really.  Although I think 9 subs exaggerates. I don’t see many / any managers being content to field a bench like we have at times this season.

Definitely not black and white though.

47 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah was that pre-prepared or just quick-witted? Either way, it was liquid radio.

Off the cuff. I’m here all week!!

[Jerseybean]

2 hours ago, tin said:

RE stability — bear in mind, Rennie, Fleming, Euell, King and James - all key individuals with top-flight (and in some cases PL- winning) experience are all here because of Nige and will likely leave. Bear in mind Tinnion is the only man with any football experience above the manager. There is nothing stable about that, it looks like a rudderless ship IMO and has the real potential to create a vacuum. This has real potential to create avoidable upheaval — the polar opposite of stability — that risks our status in this league. 

RE culture — again, that ties in my first point. When Rennie, Fleming and Euell go, followed by King and James next summer, the individuals who were setting the standards of the club will have left. It takes longer than two-and-a-half years to embed culture into the “fabric” of a club, see Sir Alex Ferguson for example. In any case, culture begins at the very top and transcends down. Not here, though, not in the last two decades at least. 

And ultimately, we have never had a succession plan under the Lansdowns; instead we have leapt from one failed strategy to another. There is a body of evidence spanning 20+ years to show you that it will almost certainly be no different this time around. 

Great post thank you tin for summing up my fears.

[Red Exile]

7 minutes ago, Hartleysbeard said:

Ultimately he’s come in to help achieve playoffs within the agreed tenure, and if we aren’t making progress towards that, then it’s right he goes.

This is the bit I struggle with. Looking objectively at City's current squad who would reckon it one of the top 6 in the Championship? Its all very well for the club to state year after year that our target is the play-offs, but you don't achieve that by selling your best players and not replacing them. Pearson is making bricks with straw, it seems to me that play-offs or the boot is a near impossible brief with the resources he has.

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The Academy do take credit obviously for bringing lads through BUT and it’s a huge BUT you still need a first team manager and coaching staff prepared to blood youngsters and convert the promise into achievement in MENS football. That is another process in itself. The Academy does not produce ready made MENS players. Yeboah is a great example, you can see what the kid has got but he’s still wet behind the ears in some respects (albeit I’m amazed a 17 year old does the defensive work he does tbf). Nige is prepared to let him learn on the job even when it’s his cock on the block.

To do the above and convert the youth it takes recognition in the first place of who can mix it with the men, patience and bravery whilst people on here are panicking and suggesting Bell should go out on loan etc. Bring in the wrong manager and our Academy will quickly return to where it’s often been and we will see loans galore to lower league football again.

This is what surprises me from those few ITK who are suggesting that Tins is (my word) “shit-stirring”.  After all his moans previously about academy players not getting a chance, signings being made blocking pathway and not playing them, he now has a manager that does…and Tins gets a lot of praise / credit off the back of it.

Why upset that?

Who are the managers out there of championship pedigree that do that to a similar extent to Nige - and I mean several academy players in the match day squad?

Mowbray - the 59 year old “dinosaur”

Tomasson -  perhaps benefitting from the work of Mowbray

Probably one or two others, but not many.

[maxjak]

35 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Why would Robins leave Coventry?

I have a vague suspicion that SL covets Robins, and would be willing to pay compensation and provide him with the Nest egg to push for promotion?   I Could of course be way off target, and be living in a fantasy scenario?   However.....It seems that SL is a big admirer of Robins, and although it appears unlikely, anything could happen? ..... In the land of BCFC..........Ha!                   

[Hartleysbeard]

5 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

This is the bit I struggle with. Looking objectively at City's current squad who would reckon it one of the top 6 in the Championship? It’s all very well for the club to state year after year that our target is the play-offs, but you don't achieve that by selling your best players and not replacing them. Pearson is making bricks with straw, it seems to me that play-offs or the boot is a near impossible brief with the resources he has.

Given that Pearson had a good look at our situation and got to understand the way the club operates during a temporary period prior to taking the job on permanently, is it not reasonable to assume that the ‘shared vision’ was reached on the understanding of what resources he would have available? Therefore, if play offs was the stated aim, failure to achieve that within the agreed tenure, would be justifiable reason for no contract extension. 

[Riaz]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

I have a vague suspicion that SL covets Robins, and would be willing to pay compensation and provide him with the Nest egg to push for promotion?   I Could of course be way off target, and be living in a fantasy scenario?   However.....It seems that SL is a big admirer of Robins, and although it appears unlikely, anything could happen? ..... In the land of BCFC..........Ha!                   

I'm sure he does - but why would Mark Robins leave coventry for a sideways move? I dont see the attraction for him?

[RUSSEL85]

1 minute ago, Riaz said:

I'm sure he does - but why would Mark Robins leave coventry for a sideways move? I dont see the attraction for him?

Or me, maybe the money to potentially spend, longer contract maybe better pay. 

[Red Exile]

Just now, Hartleysbeard said:

Given that Pearson had a good look at our situation and got to understand the way the club operates during a temporary period prior to taking the job on permanently, is it not reasonable to assume that the ‘shared vision’ was reached on the understanding of what resources he would have available? Therefore, if play offs was the stated aim, failure to achieve that within the agreed tenure, would be justifiable reason for no contract extension. 

I guess that would depend on 'the understanding of what resources he would have available' - which I imagine at the time included a striker and a midfielder we've sold for millions more than has subsequently been invested in the squad. What I mean is that stating an objective and then failing to give the person responsible for delivery the tools to do the job seems a pretty daft way of deciding whether to renew their contract. But far from the daftest thing about Steve Lansdown's time running the show.

[ExiledAjax]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Who are the managers out there of championship pedigree that do that to a similar extent to Nige - and I mean several academy players in the match day squad?

Mowbray - the 59 year old “dinosaur”

Tomasson -  perhaps benefitting from the work of Mowbray

Probably one or two others, but not many.

From what I've seen I like Tomasson and what he's doing. Doubt we'd get him to switch over to us so he's not an option.

I know little about League 1 right now. Is there anyone doing good work in a similar set up down there?

Can I suggest Manning at Oxford? Yes we turned them over but he's got them 2nd, well outperforming their xG (which I of course know could be a bit flukey) and with a cast iron defence. MOTM in August and doing this with a young squad with an average age of 24.* I've no idea how many have come through Oxford's youth ranks under him (as he's only been there since March I'll assume it's not many) but it's a young squad and they purportedly didn't spend a dime in the summer (other than loan fees).* He's also previously worked as an U23s coach at West Ham, so must surely have some sort of recognition for the power of youth development.

I don't know the details of his methods, personality or anything, whether he'd build on culture or be willing to work under our terms and conditions. Shoot this down with an Exocet if you like, but I'd say he would merit further investigation.

*Source is transfermarkt for both these figures.

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I guess that would depend on 'the understanding of what resources he would have available' - which I imagine at the time included a striker and a midfielder we've sold for millions more than has subsequently been invested in the squad. What I mean is that stating an objective and then failing to give the person responsible for delivery the tools to do the job seems a pretty daft way of deciding whether to renew their contract. But far from the daftest thing about Steve Lansdown's time running the show.

Indeed.

To quote @Davefevs , Nige has been operating with his hands tied behind his back, which isn't easy when he's on crutches.

(nice line that, sums it up)

[Hartleysbeard]

2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I guess that would depend on 'the understanding of what resources he would have available' - which I imagine at the time included a striker and a midfielder we've sold for millions more than has subsequently been invested in the squad. What I mean is that stating an objective and then failing to give the person responsible for delivery the tools to do the job seems a pretty daft way of deciding whether to renew their contract. But far from the daftest thing about Steve Lansdown's time running the show.

I follow your logic and who’s to say you’re not correct in that assessment. However, I don’t think it should a surprise to anyone, either now or three years ago, that as a club we are in a position both financially and within the league hierarchy, where we need to sell in order to progress. Of course it hurts to lose your best talents, but look at what’s coming through too. There will come a point, if we can get promoted, where we no longer need to sell those assets in order to progress. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

And finally...recruitment is analysed months in advance. Any thoughts for the next two windows would be being looked at now. As to where we need strengthening, who's coming through from Academy, who's contracts to renew or not. 

This is what I think Pearsons recent comments are also about. 

He said "All I will say is, why don't you ask someone above me for once, see if you can find somebody who's going to say something" 

I may be reading to much into this, but maybe he's not just referring to silence about his contract? But also silence around budgets etc? 

We are at the point now where that planning for the next two windows should be happening. Budgets should be set, targets should be identified and contracts of the players ooc in the summer should be discussed. But then you can't really do any of that if we don't know who the manager is going to be.  

[DaveInSA]

2 hours ago, tin said:

RE stability — bear in mind, Rennie, Fleming, Euell, King and James - all key individuals with top-flight (and in some cases PL- winning) experience are all here because of Nige and will likely leave. Bear in mind Tinnion is the only man with any football experience above the manager. There is nothing stable about that, it looks like a rudderless ship IMO and has the real potential to create a vacuum. This has real potential to create avoidable upheaval — the polar opposite of stability — that risks our status in this league. 

RE culture — again, that ties in my first point. When Rennie, Fleming and Euell go, followed by King and James next summer, the individuals who were setting the standards of the club will have left. It takes longer than two-and-a-half years to embed culture into the “fabric” of a club, see Sir Alex Ferguson for example. In any case, culture begins at the very top and transcends down. Not here, though, not in the last two decades at least. 

And ultimately, we have never had a succession plan under the Lansdowns; instead we have leapt from one failed strategy to another. There is a body of evidence spanning 20+ years to show you that it will almost certainly be no different this time around. 

On this culture point - it is EXTREMELY difficult to create, and yes it totally depends on the leadership team. 

I work in a company that changed the CE last year, they were recruited from within the business. We're now undergoing a restructure. Whether intended or not, the culture is shot to bits and the company values have gone with it.

So what I am trying to say is that culture is dependent on leadership and unless there is continuity in the ETHOS and CULTURE of that leadership, be they internal or external then it will break down pretty quickly. When Sir Alex retired from managing at United, look at the chaos. They are still in total flux. And Fergie looms large still in the directors box.

For success, look at Brentford and Brighton. For failure, well, look almost everywhere else.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Indeed.

To quote @Davefevs , Nige has been operating with his hands tied behind his back, which isn't easy when he's on crutches.

(nice line that, sums it up)

I feel like Dave had been working on that line all day

But it was the perfect description of the current situation. 

[NickJ]

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

Why would Robins leave Coventry?

 

18 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I'm sure he does - but why would Mark Robins leave coventry for a sideways move? I dont see the attraction for him?

 

You make very valid points for a change!!

Can't see it either.

[Red Exile]

9 minutes ago, Hartleysbeard said:

I follow your logic and who’s to say you’re not correct in that assessment. However, I don’t think it should a surprise to anyone, either now or three years ago, that as a club we are in a position both financially and within the league hierarchy, where we need to sell in order to progress. Of course it hurts to lose your best talents, but look at what’s coming through too. There will come a point, if we can get promoted, where we no longer need to sell those assets in order to progress. 

Selling to progress I get - but that means replacing the players sold with something better - better individuals or a better, broader, deeper, squad. It doesn't seem to me that the Alex Scott sale has resulted in that. But who knows what the plan is - the silence from the top is deafening. I've put in many decades - and fast losing patience.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Red Exile

[petehinton]

24 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I have a vague suspicion that SL covets Robins, and would be willing to pay compensation and provide him with the Nest egg to push for promotion?   I Could of course be way off target, and be living in a fantasy scenario?   However.....It seems that SL is a big admirer of Robins, and although it appears unlikely, anything could happen? ..... In the land of BCFC..........Ha!                   

He could’ve appointed Robins on 3 separate occasions and didn’t, now all of a sudden he’s done unbelievably well at Coventry SL seems to have it in his head that he always rated and always knew he’d do well. So I really wouldn’t be surprised. 

[Rocky]

3 minutes ago, NickJ said:

 

 

You make very valid points for a change!!

Can't see it either.

What's the latest with their ownership, ground etc?  Robins might want stability if all that hasn't been sorted.  Getting paid every week and playing in a permanent home ground can we quite attractive.  He's also played here briefly, and his boss would be a fanboy of his