Observation on our play...

[spudski]

... I've noticed something that's crept into our game and it was really noticeable yesterday against a side who did it well. 

Being able to control a ball, with composure, and make angles to receive the ball at the right pace. 

We seem in our eagerness to play fast football on the transition to forget the basics. 

Passes are hit in hope rather than precision with correct pace. 

Often the first touch is like a trampoline and needs a second to control. Or there is no control and it's ' passed ' again into an area, in the hope it will be won again. 

There is a complete lack of composure...everything seems rushed. 

When we play well...we move into space to create angles and time to compose and pick a pass. We aren't doing that so often now. 

It's so rushed. And so many times players are cutting off a pass to themselves by standing in a straight line with an opponent in between. No angle or space. 

Ipswich did those basics very well. They weren't outstanding tactically, they simply did the basics well. 

 

[Sir Geoff]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

... I've noticed something that's crept into our game and it was really noticeable yesterday against a side who did it well. 

Being able to control a ball, with composure, and make angles to receive the ball at the right pace. 

We seem in our eagerness to play fast football on the transition to forget the basics. 

Passes are hit in hope rather than precision with correct pace. 

Often the first touch is like a trampoline and needs a second to control. Or there is no control and it's ' passed ' again into an area, in the hope it will be won again. 

There is a complete lack of composure...everything seems rushed. 

When we play well...we move into space to create angles and time to compose and pick a pass. We aren't doing that so often now. 

It's so rushed. And so many times players are cutting off a pass to themselves by standing in a straight line with an opponent in between. No angle or space. 

Ipswich did those basics very well. They weren't outstanding tactically, they simply did the basics well. 

 

I don't think we were anywhere near as bad as you make out, but my reply is a one word answer.   Naismith.

[ooRya]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

... I've noticed something that's crept into our game and it was really noticeable yesterday against a side who did it well. 

Being able to control a ball, with composure, and make angles to receive the ball at the right pace. 

We seem in our eagerness to play fast football on the transition to forget the basics. 

Passes are hit in hope rather than precision with correct pace. 

Often the first touch is like a trampoline and needs a second to control. Or there is no control and it's ' passed ' again into an area, in the hope it will be won again. 

There is a complete lack of composure...everything seems rushed. 

When we play well...we move into space to create angles and time to compose and pick a pass. We aren't doing that so often now. 

It's so rushed. And so many times players are cutting off a pass to themselves by standing in a straight line with an opponent in between. No angle or space. 

Ipswich did those basics very well. They weren't outstanding tactically, they simply did the basics well. 

 

100% agree with this. Pass and move - so simple but so effective.

I think the main difference last night was that Ipswich oozed confidence all over the pitch - we seem to have lost that at the moment.

[And Its Smith]

Can some it up by saying we lack consistent quality when in possession, whether that’s the player receiving the pass or the movement from others to receive the next pass 

[Mr Popodopolous]

A genunine RB would help. Not that Tanner is a great attacking outlet necessarily but that balance helps a whole side. Sykes or Gardner-Hickman is a little unbalanced.

Vyner and Atkinson can pass and carry.

Plus if course Naismith, absolutely Naismith gives us a different dimension.

[Offside]

I agree with @spudski, some of our passing and movement is dire. Far too often we struggle to retain the ball and put pressure on ourselves by giving it away in our own half. 

[stephenkibby.]

25 minutes ago, spudski said:

... I've noticed something that's crept into our game and it was really noticeable yesterday against a side who did it well. 

Being able to control a ball, with composure, and make angles to receive the ball at the right pace. 

We seem in our eagerness to play fast football on the transition to forget the basics. 

Passes are hit in hope rather than precision with correct pace. 

Often the first touch is like a trampoline and needs a second to control. Or there is no control and it's ' passed ' again into an area, in the hope it will be won again. 

There is a complete lack of composure...everything seems rushed. 

When we play well...we move into space to create angles and time to compose and pick a pass. We aren't doing that so often now. 

It's so rushed. And so many times players are cutting off a pass to themselves by standing in a straight line with an opponent in between. No angle or space. 

Ipswich did those basics very well. They weren't outstanding tactically, they simply did the basics well. 

 

They were very good at getting out,two or three times they had throw ins by the corner flag and got out comfortably.

We just seemed a bit rushed in  ours attempts to get out.

Confidence goes a long way.

[Open End Numb Legs]

Fair point but remember that Ipswich went a bit AWOL in the last 15 minutes, their movement was poor. They out played us earlier at times so fitness is key.

Had we played the final pass or cross better it could easily have been 2-1 so that is where I would concentrate improvement. Too often we get to the byline, don't look up and the cross goes nowhere near our players. Having done the hard bit.....

One of the differences to Prem players is the whipped in cross, accurate and at pace. We rarely do that IMO.

[Red-Robbo]

The only time we threatened is through fast play. I thought one of the problems last night was we were far too ponderous in attack and by the time we'd passed it around sideways and back a dozen times then finally put a through ball into their final third, they had 11 men back. 

It was symptomatic in my view of Weimann not really providing that link between MF and the forwards, and us missing Naismith and Williams. 

Strangely, although he'd been great when playing through illness on Saturday, I don't think Knight had a very good game either. He had moments, but by his high standards was muted and got done by Ipswich opponents a fair few times as well. Perhaps feeling the after-effects of whatever bug he had. 

But it is what it is.  I don't think we can draw too many conclusions about City's preferred style of play when watching a side with so many people out and others filling in, out-of-position. 

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

 Ipswich went a bit AWOL in the last 15 minutes, their movement was poor. They out played us earlier at times so fitness is key.

Had we played the final pass or cross better it could easily have been 2-1 so that is where I would concentrate improvement. Too often we get to the byline, don't look up and the cross goes nowhere near our players. Having done the hard bit.....

One of the differences to Prem players is the whipped in cross, accurate and at pace. We rarely do that IMO.

 

Very true and never was the phrase "fine margins" more apt. Cornick's shot must've stopped a centimetre short of activating the goal-line technology, and the foul on Knight was about 2 foot (at most) outside the box. 

[BCFC31]

39 minutes ago, spudski said:

... I've noticed something that's crept into our game and it was really noticeable yesterday against a side who did it well. 

Being able to control a ball, with composure, and make angles to receive the ball at the right pace. 

We seem in our eagerness to play fast football on the transition to forget the basics. 

Passes are hit in hope rather than precision with correct pace. 

Often the first touch is like a trampoline and needs a second to control. Or there is no control and it's ' passed ' again into an area, in the hope it will be won again. 

There is a complete lack of composure...everything seems rushed. 

When we play well...we move into space to create angles and time to compose and pick a pass. We aren't doing that so often now. 

It's so rushed. And so many times players are cutting off a pass to themselves by standing in a straight line with an opponent in between. No angle or space. 

Ipswich did those basics very well. They weren't outstanding tactically, they simply did the basics well. 

 

This is absolutely spot on !! 

[TV Tom]

It doesn't help that if we are trying to retain the ball our keeper just launches it down the throats of two six foot two centre-halves 

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

The only time we threatened is through fast play. I thought one of the problems last night was we were far too ponderous in attack and by the time we'd passed it around sideways and back a dozen times then finally put a through ball into their final third, they had 11 men back. 

It was symptomatic in my view of Weimann not really providing that link between MF and the forwards, and us missing Naismith and Williams. 

Strangely, although he'd been great when playing through illness on Saturday, I don't think Knight had a very good game either. He had moments, but by his high standards was muted and got done by Ipswich opponents a fair few times as well. Perhaps feeling the after-effects of whatever bug he had. 

But it is what it is.  I don't think we can draw too many conclusions about City's preferred style of play when watching a side with so many people out and others filling in, out-of-position. 

It's not the style of play that's the problem RR...it's being able to do the basics well within that style of play. 

We use pace to break the lines. Even though we've become better at retaining the ball, as you correctly point out, we are at our best when we break at speed...counter attacking. 

We've lost that ability to do it consistently well in a composed fashion. 

It's not the way we play that's our problem, but the factors by the players trying to do it in a rushed way. Too eager to make the transition, they are often doing it in a non controlled fashion. 

[petehinton]

Hard to use yesterday as an anchor point really given how patched up we are. Tbh for me it’s just about picking up as many points as possible whilst the squad is in its current state, however that may be. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by petehinton

[Open End Numb Legs]

10 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Hard to use yesterday as an anchor point really given how patched up we are. Tbh for me it’s just about picking up as many points as possible whilst the squad is in its current state, however that may be. 

Yes, agreed. I suppose my point about crosses is that it is something that is very easy to work on in training, much like shooting practice or penalties, you don't need the squad, even just stay behind after hours with a coach.

There is saying somewhere about being lucky. Sportsman replies, yeh, funny how the more I practice the luckier I get.

(Someone will know who said that!!).

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Hard to use yesterday as an anchor point really given how patched up we are. Tbh for me it’s just about picking up as many points as possible whilst the squad is in its current state, however that may be. 

I haven't really...it's been noticeable over a few weeks. 

I used yesterday as an example as the opponents did the basics very well. 

They weren't tactically geniuses. They just passed and moved well. Controlled the ball well. Created space and angles. And the pace of pass was good and precise. 

Ours on the other hand isn't. 

Again it's not our style...but how we are going about it. 

I'd say Matty James has been our best player at being composed and doing the basics continually well. 

Go on the player statistics on this link to compare our players and Ipswich over this season and their individual player pass success percentages. 

Some of ours are shocking. 

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1731708/PlayerStatistics/England-Championship-2023-2024-Bristol-City-Ipswich

Edited October 26, 2023 by spudski

[marmite]

1 hour ago, TV Tom said:

It doesn't help that if we are trying to retain the ball our keeper just launches it down the throats of two six foot two centre-halves 

I understand possession football but can someone explain why, when we have a free kick in our own half near half-way, we invariably play it back to Max who lumps it up field to be contested by the half-way line. Surely the free kick should be hit into the opponents penalty area to be contested. I'm well aware that other teams do this as well but I find it so negative.

[W-S-M Seagull]

We had a 80.8% successful passes last night which was higher than Ipswichs. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

There is saying somewhere about being lucky. Sportsman replies, yeh, funny how the more I practice the luckier I get.

(Someone will know who said that!!).

Gary Player?

[Rudolf Hucker]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

… and by the time we'd passed it around sideways and back a dozen times …

I sense that throughout many matches, we play more passes backward and sideways than forward. We seem to do this particularly from free kicks awarded ten yards either side of halfway. Yes, we retain possession and yes, we are looking for attacking opportunities to appear but it’s hardly progressive and it’s extremely frustrating to watch.

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

When we play well...we move into space to create angles and time to compose and pick a pass. We aren't doing that so often now. 

It's so rushed. And so many times players are cutting off a pass to themselves by standing in a straight line with an opponent in between. No angle or space. 

Several times this season, I've seen one of ours receive the ball with an angle to pass to a team-mate (often out wide) immediately available.

Instead of passing, the player in possession advances up the pitch so far that an opponent ends up blocking the pass to the team-mate out wide. So we stop, retreat or go sideways, losing all momentum. It happened many times last night. 

Basics. Infuriating. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We had a 80.8% successful passes last night which was higher than Ipswichs. 

Ipswich was 80%.

However...we made 454 passes to their 497.

367 of our passes were accurate, compared to Ipswich who had 396 accurate passes. 

Ipswich had double key passes. 12 to our 6.

Bare in mind those stats don't include crosses. So our percentage would be far less if those were included. 

You have to look at the context. 

 

[Red-Robbo]

28 minutes ago, marmite said:

I understand possession football but can someone explain why, when we have a free kick in our own half near half-way, we invariably play it back to Max who lumps it up field to be contested by the half-way line. Surely the free kick should be hit into the opponents penalty area to be contested. I'm well aware that other teams do this as well but I find it so negative.

 

I'd also have liked us to put their keeper under more pressure. The guy did one long kick - right at the death - all game and liked to dribble it around the box before a short pass to one of their centre backs. He didn't look the most confident. An Antoine Semenyo would've loved to have robbed him. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

12 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I'd also have liked us to put their keeper under more pressure. The guy did one long kick - right at the death - all game and liked to dribble it around the box before a short pass to one of their centre backs. He didn't look the most confident. An Antoine Semenyo would've loved to have robbed him. 

You're not the first to mention this, and you won't be the last.

Their keeper passing out is all very much part of their plan, the old rope-a-dope trick - get us to over commit and leave acres in behind, which they are exceptionally good at exploiting. This is from a Guardian article last week about their goalkeeper Hladky:

- Hladky recognises the direction of the conversation and smiles. He is being taken back to Ipswich’s win over Hull this month and his contribution to an extraordinary goal. Leaving two onrushing opponents for dead with a turn and pass deep inside his own six-yard box, he opened up a new angle of attack and watched Conor Chaplin finish off a thrilling move 16 seconds later.

The sequence went viral and the goalkeeper’s influence was lost on few. “It was pure instinct,” he says, choosing his words modestly. “It’s on me to pick the right option, and sometimes you have to do something a bit extra.”

Everything is coming off for Ipswich, who have won nine of 11 games in the Championship by playing some of the best football in the country. The same can be said of Hladky, who has faced down ferocious presses and, time after time, opened teams up from the back - 

I dare say somewhere, some time, they'll come unstuck this season. But I'd be happy to bet it will reap far more positive results than negative of the course of these 46 games. 

Semenyo would have made it interesting last night though, for sure!

Edited October 26, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[GrahamC]

26 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Gary Player?

It was.

[Roger Red Hat]

5 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Semenyo would have made it interesting last night though, for sure

Exactly what I was thinking at the time!

I remember having a conversation with a bluebird mate when Colin was in charge there. He asked what was the point in all this tippy-tippy between defenders/keeper,  in the penalty area, so I explained. His response was "I can't see Colin going for any of that"!

[redkev]

Totally agree with all that has been said on our performances so far this season , some people have gone a little over the top but generally think we’re all batting off the same wicket ( England obviously arnt ) but for all that was said about tonight’s performance I do think - vyner Atkinson Naismith Williams Lord Lucan ( MCCrorie) who would no doubt all of played tonight might have made a fair bit of difference . 

[Port Said Red]

3 hours ago, ooRya said:

100% agree with this. Pass and move - so simple but so effective.

I think the main difference last night was that Ipswich oozed confidence all over the pitch - we seem to have lost that at the moment.

The exception to the rule was Jason Knight who was always moving, always available and always knew what he has going to do with the ball. I don't think there was a blade of grass he didn't cover last night.

[Merrick's Marvels]

6 minutes ago, redkev said:

Totally agree with all that has been said on our performances so far this season , some people have gone a little over the top but generally think we’re all batting off the same wicket ( England obviously arnt ) but for all that was said about tonight’s performance I do think - vyner Atkinson Naismith Williams Lord Lucan ( MCCrorie) who would no doubt all of played tonight might have made a fair bit of difference . 

They would have but - for me - it's a daft argument.

Why? Because the odds on them all being fit at the same time - and staying fit - are longer than Lord Lucan re-appearing - it just won't happen!

McCrorie/Tanner/Vyner/Dickie/Atkinson/Pring + James/Naismith/Williams/Knight/Weimann + Wells/Conway/Sykes/Bell/Cornick - that's a solid if unspectacular matchday squad.

How often will we ever see it?

And Benarous? It's all gone very quiet on him, which worries me.

[Clutton Caveman]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

... I've noticed something that's crept into our game and it was really noticeable yesterday against a side who did it well. 

Being able to control a ball, with composure, and make angles to receive the ball at the right pace. 

We seem in our eagerness to play fast football on the transition to forget the basics. 

Passes are hit in hope rather than precision with correct pace. 

Often the first touch is like a trampoline and needs a second to control. Or there is no control and it's ' passed ' again into an area, in the hope it will be won again. 

There is a complete lack of composure...everything seems rushed. 

When we play well...we move into space to create angles and time to compose and pick a pass. We aren't doing that so often now. 

It's so rushed. And so many times players are cutting off a pass to themselves by standing in a straight line with an opponent in between. No angle or space. 

Ipswich did those basics very well. They weren't outstanding tactically, they simply did the basics well. 

 

For me there were a few big differences between us and Ipswich last night.

a) they had 2 central midfielders with real football intelligence and they ran the game. In his pomp, James could do the same but now he has to pace himself.

b) when they broke, the rest of the team busted a gut to get up and give great passing options. When we broke too often our player had no decent passing options so either lost the ball or had to go backwards.

c) When an Ipswich player was in received the ball he almost always had 3 decent passing options. Apart from when we have our tails up like having just scored, our movement off the ball is poor and has been for a long time. As such we frequently have to go back or hit it long

d) Ipswich had a centre forward who could hold the ball up and bring others into the game. As much as I like Conway this is not his game. He is too small and needs a centre forward to play off.

Having said all that, our shear effort and great mentality meant that we were always in this game and with a little luck (which we probably used up against Coventry) we could have nicked a draw.

With a fully fit squad and our determination, we could be a shout for top six but back in the real world where players do get injured we will do well to finish in the top half.

Imagine what NP could do with a squad and budget that LJ had.