Myths, Learnings, Lansdowns, Manning and more

[The Exiled Robin]

Ahead of the new Liam Manning era, some personal thoughts on the events of the last couple of weeks at Bristol City...quite a lot has happened!

All thoughts/replies welcome - thanks guys

 

https://exiledrobin.blogspot.com/2023/11/ten-days-is-long-time-in-footballthe.html

[headhunter]

Excellent piece Paul.

Dave Barton & Lisa Knights, the club's & Bristol Sport's communication supremos, should be called out regarding the shambles you refer to in the opening paragraphs.

 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Excellent piece Paul.

Dave Barton & Lisa Knights, the club's & Bristol Sport's communication supremos, should be called out regarding the shambles you refer to in the opening paragraphs.

 

I can’t get the link here to work but Barton is really starting to irritate me.

Many of his questions are just so incredibly inane, with the answers blatantly set up by them.

”How impressed are you by the x million High Performance Centre”?

”A sold out away end tomorrow, how much do you appreciate that backing”?

It isn’t as if anyone will say “not very” to the first & “it’s really not that great” to the second, will they?

It’s Playschool stuff, Manning apparently does have a bit of a reputation for being somewhat robotic in his interviews, but come on, this simpleton stuff massively insults our intelligence.

Didn’t we get this bloke from a rugby background? He certainly won’t be rivalling Jeremy Paxman any time soon.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

What great article and both so accurate and honest.

It's great to read such a balanced view particularly surrounding Nige's health issues and especially recognising the commitment from the Lansdowns to BCFC. 10/10

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

Excellent read and agree with it

[Davefevs]

Well done PB.

Balanced from a critical point of view because criticism was right on some aspects.

[Red-Robbo]

39 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I can’t get the link here to work but Barton is really starting to irritate me.

Many of his questions are just so incredibly inane, with the answers blatantly set up by them.

”How impressed are you by the x million High Performance Centre”?

”A sold out away end tomorrow, how much do you appreciate that backing”?

It isn’t as if anyone will say “not very” to the first & “it’s really not that great” to the second, will they?

It’s Playschool stuff, Manning apparently does have a bit of a reputation for being somewhat robotic in his interviews, but come on, this simpleton stuff massively insults our intelligence.

Didn’t we get this bloke from a rugby background? He certainly won’t be rivalling Jeremy Paxman any time soon.

 

I guess you'll always get a bit of corporate arse-kissing from club employed interviewers, but I agree, it's got much worse.

Manning isn't alone in sort of saying nothing in his interviews: to be honest, it's rife in football, and post-match interviews are particularly uninformative - I've long since given up listening to them. Nigel Pearson got me back into the habit of looking for insights from managerial pronouncements. Not only was he unusually frank, he was actually interesting to listen to. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I guess you'll always get a bit of corporate arse-kissing from club employed interviewers, but I agree, it's got much worse.

Manning isn't alone in sort of saying nothing in his interviews: to be honest, it's rife in football, and post-match interviews are particularly uninformative - I've long since given up listening to them. Nigel Pearson got me back into the habit of looking for insights from managerial pronouncements. Not only was he unusually frank, he was actually interesting to listen to. 

Made a similar point yesterday.

I’m expecting very little from Manning’s post-match stuff based on the evidence of matching a dozen or so, sun lose or draw.

I will focus on the pre-match ones.  Nige’s were “must watch” for me, some absolute nuggets thrown out by him.

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I guess you'll always get a bit of corporate arse-kissing from club employed interviewers, but I agree, it's got much worse.

Manning isn't alone in sort of saying nothing in his interviews: to be honest, it's rife in football, and post-match interviews are particularly uninformative - I've long since given up listening to them. Nigel Pearson got me back into the habit of looking for insights from managerial pronouncements. Not only was he unusually frank, he was actually interesting to listen to. 

100%.

I fully appreciate this from my day job but also think it has got worse.

Not expecting Manning to be particularly insightful but for me the lowest bar was Danny Wilson, should have been a politician, never said anything or answered the question in his interviews at all.
 

[WarksRobin]

10 hours ago, The Exiled Robin said:

Ahead of the new Liam Manning era, some personal thoughts on the events of the last couple of weeks at Bristol City...quite a lot has happened!

All thoughts/replies welcome - thanks guys

 

https://exiledrobin.blogspot.com/2023/11/ten-days-is-long-time-in-footballthe.html

That’s a really well written piece, and I agree with pretty much all of it

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

100%.

I fully appreciate this from my day job but also think it has got worse.

Not expecting Manning to be particularly insightful but for me the lowest bar was Danny Wilson, should have been a politician, never said anything or answered the question in his interviews at all.
 

 

He only spoke to @Robbored  

[tin]

Some points I agree with, others I don’t. Manning certainly hasn’t said or done anything to excite me and the Lansdowns deserve criticism IMO, for reasons that go deeper than simply sacking Pearson.

[GrahamC]

35 minutes ago, tin said:

Some points I agree with, others I don’t. Manning certainly hasn’t said or done anything to excite me and the Lansdowns deserve criticism IMO, for reasons that go deeper than simply sacking Pearson.

Where I am.

Think the mention of Tinnion’s influence is brushed over too easily as well.

 

[Street red]

1 hour ago, tin said:

Some points I agree with, others I don’t. Manning certainly hasn’t said or done anything to excite me and the Lansdowns deserve criticism IMO, for reasons that go deeper than simply sacking Pearson.

This sticking up for the Lansdowns and covering the loses every season well if they had it right and not gone fall metal on spending they wouldn't have to also to separate the ground from the football club is another pathetic decision. Yes they do deserve criticism massively. Over and over theyve done the same mistake let's just hope this isn't another bad decision. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Street red

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

48 minutes ago, tin said:

Some points I agree with, others I don’t. Manning certainly hasn’t said or done anything to excite me and the Lansdowns deserve criticism IMO, for reasons that go deeper than simply sacking Pearson.

Possible reasons:

NP was increasingly seen as forging his own path and at points openly critical of the " hierarchy ". The more he did it , the more he endeared himself to the fans and the more the fans liked it, the more the board didn't.

This is turn led to a divergence of strategy between Manager and board/owners. "Them and us" style. Tinnion maybe ( speculation) picked a side and it wasn't NP's.

Nige clearly has a health issue. The third one during his tenure but this one being undiagnosed and unfortunately leading to being less abled physically. The board may well have felt that they could end up carrying a manager unable (through no fault of his own) to carry out his duties.

Therefore

1) They felt he had got too big for his boots 2) They thought he might be unwell 3) They had already decided no new contract.

The easiest way to spin that was to point at results and say the squad were capable of more than he was achieving. Stating the actual reasons truthfully would have been commercial hari kari.

 

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, tin said:

Some points I agree with, others I don’t. Manning certainly hasn’t said or done anything to excite me and the Lansdowns deserve criticism IMO, for reasons that go deeper than simply sacking Pearson.

This , absolutely

Their serious credibility decline for me began with the end of the SC romp , the ridiculous LJ personal project , the farce around and appointment of Holden through to the treatment of NP

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The easiest way to spin that was to point at results and say the squad were capable of more than he was achieving. Stating the actual reasons truthfully would have been commercial hari kari.

I disagree that was the easiest way.

Instead of coming out with a nice outside off stump, leg-spinner, turning harmlessly away from the batsman who  could leave alone, they tossed up a “wrong’un” out of the back of the hand, got it wrong, turned it into a full toss and invited the batsman to slog it out of the ground.

What they’ve done is put unnecessary pressure on the new manager…and themselves .  They’ve created a narrative that leaves the new regime open to scrutiny going forwards, comparisons that could’ve been left internal, e.g. injuries / training. 

They could’ve handled it so much better.

The club had gone silent on many things, there was no planned transfer window comms, a hastily arranged SOTC, when the fans started asking for answers.  Nige wasn’t forging his own path, he was the only one fronting up.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

3 minutes ago, Spreadsheet Boy said:

The club had gone silent on many things, there was no planned transfer window comms, a hastily arranged SOTC, when the fans started asking for answers.  Nige wasn’t forging his own path, he was the only one fronting up.

and I disagree with this. He was indeed forging his own path in the absence of any clear vision to the contrary from above.

The reaction will hopefully be a lesson that the board/owner will take on board. If the recipient of the ill feeling from the ardent NP fans in any way shifts to the new coach- then more fool them. Lessons to be learnt all around perhaps.

[chinapig]

46 minutes ago, Spreadsheet Boy said:

Nige wasn’t forging his own path, he was the only one fronting up.

And he was having to answer questions that weren't his to answer e.g. the budget.

Meanwhile I assume Jon was hiding in a cupboard at the HPC. He just doesn't seem to have any of the qualities to qualify him to be Chairman of a football club.

[chinapig]

40 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The reaction will hopefully be a lesson that the board/owner will take on board.

There's a first time for everything I suppose. It was staggering that Jon said it was the first time in 20 years they had a clear idea of what they wanted from a Head Coach. Maybe that is evidence of lessons learned but it's certainly an admission of long term failure.

[CliftonCliff]

Some interesting points in the exchange between you two (MRR & Dave), though by the end I was becoming unclear as to exactly where you were in agreement and where you differed.

The arguments put forward can all claim some validity. It comes down in the end to personal opinion, but for me the overwhelmingly important feature of the whole sorry business is (and forgive me for repeating what you’ve already said), not the obviously important question of whether the right decisions got made, but the almost unbelievably inept way in which the entire process was handled, a shambles and a PR car crash that is still ongoing and which they continue to make worse with every utterance.
 

The sheer lack of judgment, professionalism and communication skills are breathtaking and have hugely alarming implications about the running of the club that actually go way beyond the question of whether it was right to sack NP. I find the incompetence of these people, given the power they wield, depressing and terrifying in equal measure. I’ve said my piece on Pearson at considerable length while the debate was raging and I’m done with that now, but the wider organisational issues are here to stay and a massive cause for concern.

 

[One Team]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I can’t get the link here to work but Barton is really starting to irritate me.

Many of his questions are just so incredibly inane, with the answers blatantly set up by them.

”How impressed are you by the x million High Performance Centre”?

”A sold out away end tomorrow, how much do you appreciate that backing”?

It isn’t as if anyone will say “not very” to the first & “it’s really not that great” to the second, will they?

It’s Playschool stuff, Manning apparently does have a bit of a reputation for being somewhat robotic in his interviews, but come on, this simpleton stuff massively insults our intelligence.

Didn’t we get this bloke from a rugby background? He certainly won’t be rivalling Jeremy Paxman any time soon.

In his interview with James yesterday he said to him “we’re well placed in the table”! I am sure he would have loved to have said something more candid back!

[tin]

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

This , absolutely

Their serious credibility decline for me began with the end of the SC romp , the ridiculous LJ personal project , the farce around and appointment of Holden through to the treatment of NP

Nail on the head, and those are just some of the big decisions they’ve got wrong. There are loads of other things they’ve done over the years that’ve increasingly irritated me. 

There’s the “it’s my club and I’ll do as I please” statement, the lies “we have a top-10 budget” (to give one example), and the nepotistic appointments.

There’s the Bristol Sport fallacy that makes it unnecessarily difficult for BCFC to be sold and the total lack of direction from the top. 

There are the farces over the kit deal and the robin splat, and the total lack of open communication that stands up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. 

When you add into the pot things like the BS bots coming on here to try an influence matters and it takes the piss IMO. I could go on and on but in short the sooner they go, the better. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by tin

[chinapig]

40 minutes ago, One Team said:

In his interview with James yesterday he said to him “we’re well placed in the table”! I am sure he would have loved to have said something more candid back!

Of course if Nigel had been in charge still Jon would have complained that we were not in the top 6. Not so much Comms and Media teams more the Ministry of Truth.

[CliftonCliff]

7 minutes ago, tin said:

Nail on the head, and those are just some of the big decisions they’ve got wrong. There are loads of other things they’ve done over the years that’ve increasingly irritated me. 

There’s the “it’s my club and I’ll do as I please” statement, the lies “we have a top-10 budget” (to give one example), and the nepotistic appointments.

There’s the Bristol Sport fallacy that makes it unnecessarily difficult for BCFC to be sold and the total lack of direction from the top. 

There are the farces over the kit deal and the robin splat, and the total lack of open communication that stands up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. 

When you add into the pot things like the BS bots coming on here to try an influence matters and it takes the piss IMO. I could go on and on but in short the sooner they go, the better. 

My sentiments exactly.

[Davefevs]

57 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Some interesting points in the exchange between you two (MRR & Dave), though by the end I was becoming unclear as to exactly where you were in agreement and where you differed.

The arguments put forward can all claim some validity. It comes down in the end to personal opinion, but for me the overwhelmingly important feature of the whole sorry business is (and forgive me for repeating what you’ve already said), not the obviously important question of whether the right decisions got made, but the almost unbelievably inept way in which the entire process was handled, a shambles and a PR car crash that is still ongoing and which they continue to make worse with every utterance.
 

The sheer lack of judgment, professionalism and communication skills are breathtaking and have hugely alarming implications about the running of the club that actually go way beyond the question of whether it was right to sack NP. I find the incompetence of these people, given the power they wield, depressing and terrifying in equal measure. I’ve said my piece on Pearson at considerable length while the debate was raging and I’m done with that now, but the wider organisational issues are here to stay and a massive cause for concern.

 

Yeah, we probably ended converging on a similar position from different starting points, as per @Marina's Rolls Royce latest post.  That is what OTIB is for.

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

2 hours ago, Street red said:

This sticking up for the Lansdowns and covering the loses every season well if they had it right and not gone fall metal on spending they wouldn't have to also to separate the ground from the football club is another pathetic decision. Yes they do deserve criticism massively. Over and over theyve done the same mistake let's just hope this isn't another bad decision. 

Covering the loses from the spending spree, trying to get promoted, what an awful thing for them to do.

I keep on seeing nonsense stating they have to put in money because of their mistakes, whilst it's true they covered the loses based on their actions that did not work out, the real problem is the cost of running a championship club even without extravagant spending makes a huge loss, unless you can start to offset by trading players. So by reducing our spending and culling the wage bill we will still likely to make a average 10-15 million loss, if you use transfer money in to offset over the next few years. 

At a guess and very rough figures, if you have a 10 million loss and say we have 12,000 adult season ticket holders, we only have to pay an extra £800 a year each, every year, but obviously before wanting to bring in more players.

Sure these figures can be argued upon, but the principle is SL subsidises every one of us to watch city with no real chance of getting that money back, because all championship clubs run at a loss.

As for the ground its been covered before and standard practice amongst clubs to protect it and very likely to be part of any sell.

[Harry]

Nice blog @ExiledRobin

Good to see you pick up on my O’Driscoll comparison

[NSFF]

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

and I disagree with this. He was indeed forging his own path in the absence of any clear vision to the contrary from above.

The reaction will hopefully be a lesson that the board/owner will take on board. If the recipient of the ill feeling from the ardent NP fans in any way shifts to the new coach- then more fool them. Lessons to be learnt all around perhaps.

We all have our opinions on who should be in charge and how things have been done,  but surely the reason is we all want what’s best for our football club ? 
History suggests that Tinnion can’t manage a football club but he’s having a big say in what goes on which don’t sit right with me 

[sh1t_ref_again]

7 minutes ago, NSFF said:

We all have our opinions on who should be in charge and how things have been done,  but surely the reason is we all want what’s best for our football club ? 
History suggests that Tinnion can’t manage a football club but he’s having a big say in what goes on which don’t sit right with me 

So because someone years ago had a problem doing a particular job, they can't every do one similar again, even though they may have learnt a lot since