Manning Pre Huddersfield

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not a fan of this emotionless stuff. 

I feel that traditionally we are at our best when players feed off the emotion that Ashton Gate displays. 

Manning is very meticulous in how he does things. However when it comes to emotions he's powerless. He doesn't like emotions because they bring uncertainty. Football is an emotional game. Manning is all about processes and there is no room for emotions in his processes. 

Whilst Pearson didn't display many emotions, he harnessed the power of emotions. He knew the importance of them. Whilst he didnt always show it, Pearson by his very nature is a very passionate person. It doesn't seem Manning has that in his locker which could be his downfall at this level. 

Even at Man City where they have all their systems, processes etc they still have a passionate team. Peps team is a mirror of himself. 

The lack of emotions does make it difficult to warm to Manning. 

It is an emotional game tbh, football. Think there are still raw emotions about the sacking of NP and potential shifting of the fial posts, if not 180 degrees then 100 certainly.

Will watch the Press Conference before making a full view.

So far I'd say this season but at times in the prior 2 seasons, NP ball much more likely to get the crowd going than Manning ball would. The two can and do feed off each other..

Big tackle gets the crowd going, pressing high from the front gets the crowd going that sort of thing. Early goals for definitely can get the crowd going. 

Ideally planning will tweak it and try to get to more of a pressing blueprint but better and indeed sharper in possession.

Possession football to me is fine provided there is the intensity out of it in particular.

Evatt at Bolton likes a high press and his sides are technically fine- he might have been a better fit than Mannuby but still very early days.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I'd imagine what BT and JL say to manning and what they say infront of the media are 2 very different things 

From what angle?

As in higher expectations in public, downplaying behind the scenes- or the other way round?

[BCFC31]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

From what angle?

As in higher expectations in public, downplaying behind the scenes- or the other way round?

I think they just tell us fans what they think we are likely to want to hear I'd imagine there alot more realistic with manning.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I think they just tell us fans what they think we are likely to want to hear I'd imagine there alot more realistic with manning.

Interesting, thanks.

Problem is unsure it'll wash this time..anti Lansdown chants when Middlesbrough equalised, some v Sheffield Wednesday chants.

Pro NP chants at the end v Sheffield Wednesday and reported at QPR away in a national match report.

Stand up rows in the anti Lansdown chanting v Middlesbrough reported on here.

Credibility of Jon Lansdown, Tinnion, perhaps Marshall and even Rawcliffe heavily on the line IMO.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mendip City]

7 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I'd imagine what BT and JL say to manning and what they say infront of the media are 2 very different things 

But that’s that point. LM has bought into whatever they have said. If you felt the squad was mid table at best (as I do) would you take a job where your boss has told the world the squad is much better than that? 
LM is surely not that naive? Is he?? 
Whatever anyone thinks JL and BT’s cowardly way of sacking NP (blaming results) has set an expectation on them and their new man. 
Ashton Gate is going to be an angry place in the New year if we’re playing dead rubbers and not challenging at the right end of the table. 

[BCFC31]

I agree I'm sick of all the crap coming from the club so far this season just looks like another complete waste. I fully expect and am demanding of a win on Saturday personally if we lose or even draw imo it's unacceptable! When does this club start having that winning mentality if we aren't able to beat the sides below us in the division then honestly what is the point what is the aim.

Edited December 8, 2023 by BCFC31

[Mendip City]

19 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I agree I'm sick of all the crap coming from the club so far this season just looks like another complete waste. I fully expect and am demanding of a win on Saturday personally if we lose or even draw imo it's unacceptable! When does this club start having that winning mentality if we aren't able to beat the sides below us in the division then honestly what is the point what is the aim.

Less than 3 points (in total) from these next two games and I dread to think what the atmosphere will be like at Ashton Gate. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mendip City

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Less than 3 points (in total) from these next two games and I dread to think what the atmosphere will be like at Ashton Gate. 

We got 4 from those 2 for the record last season.

Indeed, from the 4 games.so far we got 7. Okay we had Scott and we had for Blackburn away at least, Semenyo- but they in turn had the likes of Brereton-Diaz and Kaminski.

Huddersfield had the know how of Warnock.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Checked against last season we should be getting another 36 pts set against last season.

We are 2 points better off than from the exact equivalent fixtures this season but that was done to NP and the one Fleming game..We were plus 5.

Manning is therefore like for like-3.

QPR (A) 2-0 v 0-0

Middlesbrough (H) 2-2 v 3-2

Southampton (A)..0-1, but we lost by one goal at Burnley, Luton, Sheffield United too.

Norwich (H) 1-0 v 1-2

On a PPG to maintain what was inherited another 37-38 pts from 27.

Perhaps even 39-40 to claw back to the 1.4 PPG inherited.

NP himself left us like for like games, between 3 and 5 points better off when he was sacked, from 14 games. After Fleming it either rise to 5 or stayed at 5.

That is progression.

GD was maybe 3 better off albeit it's a little complex with the NP v Fleming bit. There is an argument that it was +2 or +3, Idk.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Less than 3 points (in total) from these next two games and I dread to think what the atmosphere will be like at Ashton Gate. 

I stood up for a corner at the game the other day (because others in front of me where stood up so I couldn't see) the amount of abuse I got hurled at me from those behind me was insane. 

Whilst that wasn't acceptable the point I'm trying to make is that the fans at Ashton Gate have an anger that is bubbling away under the surface and its ready to come out and a run of bad results will see it come out.

 

[Red Skin]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m more than willing to say that he had different conversations internally than were positioned externally, but he undoubtedly knew what he was walking into in terms of public expectation.

On that basis, for want of a better term, I’d suggest he’s “fair game”. As with any job, he knows the expectation (set at a false bar by the ownership but the fans will judge on that), and not meeting that will naturally lead to dissatisfaction.

No one really knows, but regardless of the talk of 'top six' finish that was nail in Pearson's coffin, LM would not have been given this as a target for this year when he was being courted.   And that's what his appointment was, not an interview.  He's a manager on the up, why would he come to City weighed down with those expectations?  He'd be better off staying at Oxford and having the chance of a better opportunity in the summer, or taking them up and having it later.

He is a man so immersed and obsessed with football at the club he is working for, I do not believe he'd have had any idea about how the fans felt about Pearson's sacking.  Why would he?  Did you see anything in the national media about how badly we took it?  

The only thing he would have had to go on would have been what he was told by the club.  And most people seem to think they either didn't know or didn't care what the fans thought, so at the very least it would have been played down. 

The club owners are fair game, but I don't believe LM is.  And taking the position that LM is fair game, where does that leave you?  It means the righteous anger and antipathy that should rightly be levelled at the club owners and hierarchy is completely misplaced.   

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Did you see anything in the national media about how badly we took it?

Yes actually, I did. Will try and find it but there was absolutely something in The Game about pro NP chanting after Manning's first game.

8 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

The club owners are fair game, but I don't believe LM is.  And taking the position that LM is fair game, where does that leave you?  It means the righteous anger and antipathy that should rightly be levelled at the club owners and hierarchy is completely misplaced.   

Completely agree that if it goes wrong, the anger and antipathy should be aimed at the hierarchy ie Jon Lansdown, Tinnion and co.

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Red Skin

[Mendip City]

33 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I stood up for a corner at the game the other day (because others in front of me where stood up so I couldn't see) the amount of abuse I got hurled at me from those behind me was insane. 

Whilst that wasn't acceptable the point I'm trying to make is that the fans at Ashton Gate have an anger that is bubbling away under the surface and its ready to come out and a run of bad results will see it come out.

 

It’s really changed a bit recently. I find us apathetic by and large. Willing to take almost any old rubbish on the chin. 
Hard to see where it goes from here, in the old days it would have been “sack the board” chanted behind the grand stand after the game.  Not really an option now! 
If it turns poisonous, the Lansdowns may be encouraged to get a move on with any sale.  They’ve talked about it for ages which has coincided with a real stagnation on the field. 

[Silvio Dante]

4 hours ago, Red Skin said:

He is a man so immersed and obsessed with football at the club he is working for, I do not believe he'd have had any idea about how the fans felt about Pearson's sacking.  Why would he?  Did you see anything in the national media about how badly we took it?  

The only thing he would have had to go on would have been what he was told by the club.  And most people seem to think they either didn't know or didn't care what the fans thought, so at the very least it would have been played down. 

The club owners are fair game, but I don't believe LM is.  And taking the position that LM is fair game, where does that leave you?  It means the righteous anger and antipathy that should rightly be levelled at the club owners and hierarchy is completely misplaced.   

I think you’ve highlighted here something which, if true, i’m going to call the “Manning Paradox”. He is at the same time so obsessed with football that he spends every waking moment devouring information on it, yet at the same time is so unobsessed with football that he doesn’t do basic due diligence on fans expectations/feeling on a club when he is looking at a job. This place, Twitter etc aren’t hard to find and nor were Jon and Brian’s (eventual) public pronouncements.

If he did have no idea, then I’d suggest he’s not as diligent about things as he’s made out to be.

 

[Son of Fred]

31 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think you’ve highlighted here something which, if true, i’m going to call the “Manning Paradox”. He is at the same time so obsessed with football that he spends every waking moment devouring information on it, yet at the same time is so unobsessed with football that he doesn’t do basic due diligence on fans expectations/feeling on a club when he is looking at a job. This place, Twitter etc aren’t hard to find and nor were Jon and Brian’s (eventual) public pronouncements.

If he did have no idea, then I’d suggest he’s not as diligent about things as he’s made out to be.

 

Quite right & excellent post-

Knowledge is power & why wouldn't you take a 360° view of any position you are potentially stepping into??

[Monkeh]

Manning is on a hiding to nothing and set up to fail by the board,

I feel bad for him, 

[cidered abroad]

7 hours ago, Mendip City said:

But that’s that point. LM has bought into whatever they have said. If you felt the squad was mid table at best (as I do) would you take a job where your boss has told the world the squad is much better than that? 
LM is surely not that naive? Is he?? 
Whatever anyone thinks JL and BT’s cowardly way of sacking NP (blaming results) has set an expectation on them and their new man. 
Ashton Gate is going to be an angry place in the New year if we’re playing dead rubbers and not challenging at the right end of the table. 

It will be even angrier IF the slow drop from higher up the table becomes a slide downwards. What will we all think when QPR or Wednesday overtake us?

[Lew-T]

3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Manning is on a hiding to nothing and set up to fail by the board,

I feel bad for him, 

Well we’ll see in the next couple transfer windows.

[redsquirrel]

manning will get the flak if it goes tits  and bt and jl know that. manning wont care, hes got enough going in his bank account to not worry about it and the other two dingo brains know they are safe in the drawing room with jons wax box

[Son of Fred]

35 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Manning is on a hiding to nothing and set up to fail by the board,

I feel bad for him, 

He took this job with his eyes open.

[johnheadbcfc]

Confident for Manning and the boys to get 3 points saturday

[GrahamC]

32 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Confident for Manning and the boys to get 3 points saturday

Genuinely interested in what you are basing that on.

Huddersfield have only lost one of their last 5, their 2 draws were against Southampton (who beat us) & Watford, they won at Sunderland & only defeat was at Hull.

I’m not saying it is like going to Leicester or Leeds but I don’t expect 3 points based on Sunday.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

Just listened to the full press conference. I'll give my full thoughts on that later. 

But him talking about us being in a transition phase has really annoyed me. We don't need to transition. But here we are less than half way through the season having to transition. I feel like he's read the room completely wrong. 

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Manning is on a hiding to nothing and set up to fail by the board,

I feel bad for him, 

He really wasn't , if you said Pearson, then maybe.
The top 6 bollox was a smokesceen of excuses trying to cover why they got rid of Pearson.
Manning was exactly the sort of person they wanted , and what many on here would have wanted when Pearson's time came to a natural end.
Manning comes in with a decent squad, players returning to fitness and will have money to spend in Jan. 
They did put necessary pressure on him and the team with the top 6 squad & top 10 budget nonsense , but he will be backed.
 

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Manning comes in with a decent squad, players returning to fitness and will have money to spend in Jan. 

That's why for me my expectations are so high. He has everything he needs to succeed. He has to deliver immediately. None of this give it time or need 3 windows bs. He has all the tools at his disposal. 

[Silvio Dante]

14 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Just listened to the full press conference. I'll give my full thoughts on that later. 

But him talking about us being in a transition phase has really annoyed me. We don't need to transition. But here we are less than half way through the season having to transition. I feel like he's read the room completely wrong. 

I think what you have to remember is that he’s hugely process driven. You could put him into Man City or Harrogate Town and he’d follow the same pattern/journey, irrespective of what went before - so from his point of view, it is a transition phase from “what was before” to “what it will be”. I’m not narked about him talking about transition because I think that’s just poor use of language and comes from his character and really using stock answers in interviews.

As above, he did say he didn’t see it as a “rebuild” which probably tells more as to the thinking. However, he did then also say (words to the effect of) you wouldn’t necessarily get a bounce quickly from him but he would yield results long term. The problem there is he couldn’t define what long term was, which if I tried in an appraisal I’d likely get a flea in my ear!

Edited December 8, 2023 by Silvio Dante

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That's why for me my expectations are so high. He has everything he needs to succeed. He has to deliver immediately. None of this give it time or need 3 windows bs. He has all the tools at his disposal. 

He does start in a much better place than most Managers coming in here. 
I do think there will be a bit of a mixed bag of performances while they get used to his ideas, but I am expecting improvement. Been a little unlucky so far , the 2 OG's have cost us, but there are signs I think we can push on a bit. 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, Red Skin said:

No one really knows, but regardless of the talk of 'top six' finish that was nail in Pearson's coffin, LM would not have been given this as a target for this year when he was being courted.   And that's what his appointment was, not an interview.  He's a manager on the up, why would he come to City weighed down with those expectations?  He'd be better off staying at Oxford and having the chance of a better opportunity in the summer, or taking them up and having it later.

He is a man so immersed and obsessed with football at the club he is working for, I do not believe he'd have had any idea about how the fans felt about Pearson's sacking.  Why would he?  Did you see anything in the national media about how badly we took it?  

The only thing he would have had to go on would have been what he was told by the club.  And most people seem to think they either didn't know or didn't care what the fans thought, so at the very least it would have been played down. 

The club owners are fair game, but I don't believe LM is.  And taking the position that LM is fair game, where does that leave you?  It means the righteous anger and antipathy that should rightly be levelled at the club owners and hierarchy is completely misplaced.   

If that was so, ie promotion isn’t the aim, wouldn’t you then wonder - why did they sack Nigel Pearson

He must have been sold the job on the basis of being the candidate to improve upon Nige’s performance. 

8 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Just listened to the full press conference. I'll give my full thoughts on that later. 

But him talking about us being in a transition phase has really annoyed me. We don't need to transition. But here we are less than half way through the season having to transition. I feel like he's read the room completely wrong. 

Transition can take many forms, just like his starting point as “manager” of Bristol City starts from a more advantageous position than most new appointments do.  Transition / Continuous Improvement / Evolvement is always happening.

Nige was transitioning us to a team that wants to control possession more don’t forget.  Nige still recognised that we were good on the counter though.  Something to watch for in the upcoming games.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He has to deliver immediately.

By immediately I expect progress as THIS season progresses.  I don’t think that’s unreasonable given what he’s taken over.

Defining what progress means is harder though!!!

For me that is maintaining us as a mid/top half team in the mix.  I expect us to fall short of playoffs based on squad strength (unless we go crazy in January - unlikely), I just don’t think we are as good as a few sides above us.  But I don’t expect us to have a second half of the season without hope that if we could string a few wins together we might be right in it.  If in February we are a dozen points off the play-offs something has gone wrong.  We need to stay in that sweet-spot of being in-touch.

Does that make sense?

So, nor am I talking about 3 windows either.  I don’t think anyone is, are they?