Manning Pre Huddersfield

[bcfc01]

12 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Glad we got such an exhaustive list of all the options, weird how they all paint him in a negative light!

Par for the course.

Ignore it, I'm sure Manning would as well.

Just a minority sounding off.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

The other difference is that LM has been coaching for 18 years whereas LJ had 5 mins before joining us.

In fairness to Lee, he’d been coaching a while, not 18 years, but a good while.  Even whilst he was a player he was helping out the Academy.

This will be probably come across different to how I intend it, but for me Lee was always trying to prove himself, distance himself from his dad’s style, invent things to deer if they work, ie he hadn’t grounded his thoughts over a period of time.  Liam seems completely confident in his ability, he understands what outcomes his processes will deliver.

Back to rebuild / transition:

I don’t see any of this as a big deal.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Davefevs

[Red Skin]

8 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think you’ve highlighted here something which, if true, i’m going to call the “Manning Paradox”. He is at the same time so obsessed with football that he spends every waking moment devouring information on it, yet at the same time is so unobsessed with football that he doesn’t do basic due diligence on fans expectations/feeling on a club when he is looking at a job. This place, Twitter etc aren’t hard to find and nor were Jon and Brian’s (eventual) public pronouncements.

If he did have no idea, then I’d suggest he’s not as diligent about things as he’s made out to be.

 

So, let me get this clear, now we are criticising Manning for not spending more time on Twitter? Give the bloke a chance.

I don't want a manager that is so concerned about fan reaction that it would influence his decision to join a club or not.   What kind of character and backbone would any such individual have when he is in the job and the going gets a bit tough?  LM is obviously a man with a belief that he method and his ability, and I admire that.

What I feel he (through the City media) are doing though is trying to ask for fans patience as his way of working in bedded in.   That's a sensible approach for me. 

 

[Sheltons Army]

59 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Par for the course.

Ignore it, I'm sure Manning would as well.

Just a minority sounding off.

‘Minority’

 

You keep telling yourself that

 

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

So, let me get this clear, now we are criticising Manning for not spending more time on Twitter? Give the bloke a chance.

I don't want a manager that is so concerned about fan reaction that it would influence his decision to join a club or not.   What kind of character and backbone would any such individual have when he is in the job and the going gets a bit tough?  LM is obviously a man with a belief that he method and his ability, and I admire that.

What I feel he (through the City media) are doing though is trying to ask for fans patience as his way of working in bedded in.   That's a sensible approach for me. 

 

No, we’re not doing that.

What we’re doing, is quite logically and based on what we know of Liams character, is stating that it’s highly likely he would have done some due diligence. The genesis of this is that some posters have stated he would have no idea what he walked into here - and that’s patently not going to be correct.
 

Doing due diligence means that he understands what’s been said and the expectations raised by the board and articulated to the fans - which is a position any manager would want to be in as a minimum.

Ironically, the posters who suggest he wouldn’t have done due diligence are the ones who are actually criticising him, as it would make him an exception to practically every person who’s gone for another job ever!

[Red Skin]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

If that was so, ie promotion isn’t the aim, wouldn’t you then wonder - why did they sack Nigel Pearson

Dave, for an incredibly bright bloke you seem a bit naive on Pearson's sacking.  The ownership did not want Pearson.  They were grasping at straws to give a coherent footballing reason for getting rid of him.  There isn't one.  

There is a very good case for organising to change the ownership and I'd support that.  People would be far better pursuing that, rather than trying to rake over the ownership's empty words trying make any sense of them.

[bcfc01]

27 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

‘Minority’

 

You keep telling yourself that

 

Will do 

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Dave, for an incredibly bright bloke you seem a bit naive on Pearson's sacking.  The ownership did not want Pearson.  They were grasping at straws to give a coherent footballing reason for getting rid of him.  There isn't one.  

There is a very good case for organising to change the ownership and I'd support that.  People would be far better pursuing that, rather than trying to rake over the ownership's empty words trying make any sense of them.

In what way am I naive about Nige’s sacking?

The point I’m making, like others, is that Manning would’ve done due diligence, and he’d have wanted to know several answers to why the job needed filling.  To think Manning would’ve just rocked up, listened to the spiel and taken it as told is naive thinking, isn’t it?

He’d want to know lots of stuff to inform his decision.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The truth us it could easily become s minority view, the disquiet about the change.

If Manning comes in and wins games, steadily builds the style and has us right in the mix for the playoffs this season. Talking 5th or 6th, race for that- more likely 6th.

Winning games and accumulating a decent number of points at a good rate is the key for Manning.

Otherwise and until then, the fanbase will be somewhat split IMO.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[One Team]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The truth us it could easily become s minority view, the disquiet about the change.

If Manning comes in and wins games, steadily builds the style and has us right in the mix for the playoffs this season. Talking 5th or 6th, race for that- more likely 6th.

Winning games and accumulating a decent number of points at a good rate is the key for Manning.

Otherwise and until then, the fanbase will be somewhat split IMO.

Agree with all that but equally if lose a few more the disquiet we’ve already had at the Gate will be much more I would think. 

[Ring]

On 07/12/2023 at 12:39, Mr Popodopolous said:

"Three windows, three windows, three windows" anyone??

Well okay he isn't Lee Johnson but I've pretty much written off the season in a League sense. Mad I know but..

Hmm. I think he probably IS Lee Johnson. If not, it’s a really good impersonation.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, One Team said:

Agree with all that but equally if lose a few more the disquiet we’ve already had at the Gate will be much more I would think. 

Oh absolutely.

My view is that it will depend broadly on results and performances, which in turn will buy time for Manning to progress his style etc.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness to Lee, he’d been coaching a while, not 18 years, but a good while.  Even whilst he was a player he was helping out the Academy.

This will be probably come across different to how I intend it, but for me Lee was always trying to prove himself, distance himself from his dad’s style, invent things to deer if they work, ie he hadn’t grounded his thoughts over a period of time.  Liam seems completely confident in his ability, he understands what outcomes his processes will deliver.

Back to rebuild / transition:

I don’t see any of this as a big deal.

I must admit I haven’t listened to the interview, but if I take the above quote (which seems to be the talking point), I see it like this :

Rebuild- No, we’re not in a rebuild. There are plenty of players here that he can work with and that he feels are good enough to progress. 
Transition - The transition is to suggest that he is trying to get the players to learn his style. It’s not revolutionising their play, it’s just moving them to a more possession heavy team than we have been (and Nige was wanting this as well anyway).  So it’s no biggie. 
Medium/long term - by this I think he means that whilst he wants to transition the team now, he has probably realised early on that some of the players are not going to be capable of implementing what he wants. So he will need to temper his requirements in the short term to be able to fit what the current players can do. 
 

In summary, I think he’s basically saying that he wants the players to play a certain way, some can some can’t, so short term we’ll transition as much as we can but longer term we’ll need a few different players to make the full transition he wants. 
 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Harry

[Davefevs]

Exactly Harr

[spudski]

34 minutes ago, Harry said:

I must admit I haven’t listened to the interview, but if I take the above quote (which seems to be the talking point), I see it like this :

Rebuild- No, we’re not in a rebuild. There are plenty of players here that he can work with and that he feels are good enough to progress. 
Transition - The transition is to suggest that he is trying to get the players to learn his style. It’s not revolutionising their play, it’s just moving them to a more possession heavy team than we have been (and Nige was wanting this as well anyway).  So it’s no biggie. 
Medium/long term - by this I think he means that whilst he wants to transition the team now, he has probably realised early on that some of the players are not going to be capable of implementing what he wants. So he will need to temper his requirements in the short term to be able to fit what the current players can do. 
 

In summary, I think he’s basically saying that he wants the players to play a certain way, some can some can’t, so short term we’ll transition as much as we can but longer term we’ll need a few different players to make the full transition he wants. 
 

 

NP said he wanted to become a more possession based team, but I'm sure he said we didn't have the players in the squad now, that were capable of doing it well, on a regular basis to win games...or words to that affect. 

Implying future signings would be sought to play this way, in transition. 

This is where I find the whole summary of the board saying we should be higher up the league with the squad we have very odd. 

It's only good enough if it's strengths are used...which is what NP found. He found we weren't going to win regularly by being possession based. 

So with Manning coming in...whilst in transition with the same squad, trying to play more possession based, it's questioning NPs judgement. 

If we improve and win playing possession based football with this squad, then the Board will be proved right. If not...then NP will be proven wrong. 

My own belief, is that in transition, we will be an indifferent team, results wise, and it will need at least January and the Summer to recruit, implement, and find out who's capable of not. 

 

[Angmering Red]

I hope with the possession based approach we don’t lose the ability for the quick counter attack when appropriate, we scored some lovely goals such as the one if I remember against QPR away last season near the end of the game, Weimann’s run and pass over the CB for Wells to score. Also numerous runs down the wing, ball across the 6 yd box for the ‘tap in’.

[Peter1450]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In what way am I naive about Nige’s sacking?

The point I’m making, like others, is that Manning would’ve done due diligence, and he’d have wanted to know several answers to why the job needed filling.  To think Manning would’ve just rocked up, listened to the spiel and taken it as told is naive thinking, isn’t it?

He’d want to know lots of stuff to inform his decision.

Probably how much bigger his salary would be?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

If we improve and win playing possession based football with this squad, then the Board will be proved right. If not...then NP will be proven wrong. 

The likelihood is it won’t be the same squad though.  Even a couple of additions (the right additions) in January could make quite a difference.

(I think if Nige had been able to add those 2 players after Alex’s sale, he would’ve been more bullish).

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

The likelihood is it won’t be the same squad though.  Even a couple of additions (the right additions) in January could make quite a difference.

(I think if Nige had been able to add those 2 players after Alex’s sale, he would’ve been more bullish).

Over half way through the season Dave...a tough ask imo. 

[stortfordred]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In what way am I naive about Nige’s sacking?

The point I’m making, like others, is that Manning would’ve done due diligence, and he’d have wanted to know several answers to why the job needed filling.  To think Manning would’ve just rocked up, listened to the spiel and taken it as told is naive thinking, isn’t it?

He’d want to know lots of stuff to inform his decision.

Yes but any intelligent person would see through the spin and Bristol Sport bullshit. Not wishing to belittle the guy but is it not a case of ‘Money talks and if I get sacked I get a big payoff anyway’   These guys are journeymen in the truly accepted interpretation: they get a huge daily rate and even if they don’t make it to the end of the contract, they get compensated the daily rate as if they’d worked the whole lot. In other words if it goes tits up they don’t give a sh1t. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, stortfordred said:

Yes but any intelligent person would see through the spin and Bristol Sport bullshit. Not wishing to belittle the guy but is it not a case of ‘Money talks and if I get sacked I get a big payoff anyway’   These guys are journeymen in the truly accepted interpretation: they get a huge daily rate and even if they don’t make it to the end of the contract, they get compensated the daily rate as if they’d worked the whole lot. In other words if it goes tits up they don’t give a sh1t. 

I’m sure money goes relatively hand in hand with ambition / climbing up the leagues.

 

 

(For info: Not all termination clauses will pay out the remainder of the contract)

[stortfordred]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I’m sure money goes relatively hand in hand with ambition / climbing up the leagues.

 

 

(For info: Not all termination clauses will pay out the remainder of the contract)

I bet his does. Ps you climb the greasy pole high enough and you don’t need another job afterwards. You’ve already made more than most of us in a lifetime. 
 

oh and it’s us (and the Lansdowns) paying it. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A few minority is a tad low IMO.

Even if this forum may have a greater %, I do think it has split the fanbase somewhat and there was certainly no chanting for NP to be sacked  this year.

That in itself brings a level of pressure. If results and go performances go South, the heat is on somewhat which makes trying to get your ideas across very difficult.

On TV tonight Rowett whilst talking about Birmingham said something along the lines of you have to get results. Need to win games etc. After that you can then work on your plan and you need to find the right balance.

Deeney mentioned something like as a player when you see the likes of Huddersfield on your tails then you can become disheartened. 

Manning has come in and his plan takes preference over results because he believes in the long term that will yield better results. He's gonna to be judged on that. 

My worry is with this approach that a point may come when results because a necessity and then the plan gets ripped up and then out comes the LJ tombola again. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

On TV tonight Rowett whilst talking about Birmingham said something along the lines of you have to get results. Need to win games etc. After that you can then work on your plan and you need to find the right balance.

Deeney mentioned something like as a player when you see the likes of Huddersfield on your tails then you can become disheartened. 

Manning has come in and his plan takes preference over results because he believes in the long term that will yield better results. He's gonna to be judged on that. 

My worry is with this approach that a point may come when results because a necessity and then the plan gets ripped up and then out comes the LJ tombola again. 

Yeah tend to agree with this.

That is sensible of Rowett, winning games buys time, can help to being abour patience to implement change when you are picking up points at a steady rate.

Weimann in, Sykes on the left- oh I know Bell and Mehmeti are in a bit of a slump but that selection slightly unsettled me.

Could have maybe gone Sykes right, Conway a bit leftish bit centre Weimann central if we were to revisit, that would've made more sense IMO.

How far do we give, to sacrifice results for change before fans start to wonder.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Manning has come in and his plan takes preference over results because he believes in the long term that will yield better results. He's gonna to be judged on that. 

 

He hasn’t said that though has he?

Here’s a quote from yesterday:

He didn’t say “preference”, that’s your words, he actually said “at the same point”, that’s trying to balance the now with the future.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How far do we give, to sacrifice results for change before fans start to wonder.

Ditto above

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

He hasn’t said that though has he?

Here’s a quote from yesterday:

He didn’t say “preference”, that’s your words, he actually said “at the same point”, that’s trying to balance the now with the future.

Yea they are my words but those words are based on what he has said and what he has done here so far. 

He's got his principles and that's fair enough. But what it seems is that whilst of course he'd like to be winning games straight away, he's not going to change his way of playing in order to get short term results. He favours the laying of foundations approach. Kinda like this is going to be our philosophy l, mentality etc from day 1. 

That's how I've perceived it anyways. Start as we mean to go on sort of thing. 

I'd agree with this sort of approach during pre season but we are not even mid way through the season and that's where I kinda agree with Rowett that sometimes results need to be prioritised and then make your changes further down the line. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yea they are my words but those words are based on what he has said and what he has done here so far. 

He's got his principles and that's fair enough. But what it seems is that whilst of course he'd like to be winning games straight away, he's not going to change his way of playing in order to get short term results. He favours the laying of foundations approach. Kinda like this is going to be our philosophy l, mentality etc from day 1. 

That's how I've perceived it anyways. Start as we mean to go on sort of thing. 

I'd agree with this sort of approach during pre season but we are not even mid way through the season and that's where I kinda agree with Rowett that sometimes results need to be prioritised and then make your changes further down the line. 

I guess my thoughts are - what has he done to not try to win straight off the bat?

I can see why some might suggest slower, more patient football might be used as a basis of embedding principles over results, but I wouldn’t take that view.

I didn’t criticise Nige for playing Kingy at CB to “coach” Vyner and Atkinson at the expense of a couple of games last season.  I do think the changes we’ve seen from Manning are pretty minimal, and I don’t think they’ve really impacted results.

But that’s just me.

[redsquirrel]

im worried we might take a dip in results,plunge towards the bottom 3.  if that happens,i would have been much more confident in NP turning it round to see us through this season than LM purely on the basis i dont know anything about him or what he can do. we are only 3 wins ahead of qpr, this could soon change over xmas/new year. would have been better if curtis had stayed,would have had a plan b if things do go awry but he might have wanted out after nps departure

[chalkeyred]

I'm worried that we might start to 'click' with the possession plus counter attacking game and win a few on the bounce.

That could cause mayhem on here.....