Watford away match thread

[Harry]

We saw a very well coached team today. 
 

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

We saw a very well coached team today. 
 

Really impressed with us today. What he says about not getting emotional . I get it . We weren’t & with & without the ball we looked in control. Being very picky , but if we made 2 or 3 better decisions up top we could have had 6 today . I get why Sykes went for goal , he’s confident . A simple pullback though& Tommy had a tap in. Plus a few poor passes final third first half . Best all round performance since possibly the Man U game 

[Ian M]

6 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Who let the Dog out....

Northern Red with the assist…

[bexhill reds]

19 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Really impressed with us today. What he says about not getting emotional . I get it . We weren’t & with & without the ball we looked in control. Being very picky , but if we made 2 or 3 better decisions up top we could have had 6 today . I get why Sykes went for goal , he’s confident . A simple pullback though& Tommy had a tap in. Plus a few poor passes final third first half . Best all round performance since possibly the Man U game 

Totally agree, we’ve long heard about decision making and poor decisions costing goals at either end of the pitch, but it does appear that of late there is an environment being created might help that decision making process, plus a higher level of confidence. I don’t think it’s churlish to suggest that Sykes and Mehmeti both had opportunities to play people into better positions during the game but made the wrong decision, Sykes with Conway as you’ve mentioned, but Mehmeti with Knight also in the second half where he tried to play a cute inside pass to Conway when Knight was totally unmarked in front of him. I think that ruthlessness might come with time.

[W-S-M Seagull]

43 minutes ago, Harry said:

We saw a very well coached team today. 
 

As we did against Hull, Swansea, Plymouth etc. 

I see what you're doing here. 

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, Harry said:

We saw a very well coached team today. 
 

I don’t like that phrase particularly Harry, it’s a bit clichéd like “front foot, high press….” (You know the rest).

Today we played well.

Playing Devil’s advocate were we poorly coached in other games?  Was it Norwich you said at h-t “we look well coached”!

As you know I was more than happy when LM was appointed, in some ways JL’s and Tins’ description of what they wanted was a contradiction to what LM has played at MK Dons and Oxford.  Can’t comment on Lommel, but having watched a load of his interviews and a few highlights to supplement games I’d already seen with him in charge, I said to you I think we’ve got someone genuine (that’s kind of my best way I describing someone who believes what he wants to do, how he wants to play and why he’s doing it his way).

He talked a lot about adaptability, he talked a load about not being fixated on formations, etc, and of course processes.

And therefore my view of Manning-ball, if people seriously want to call it that (Holdenball was always used a bit jokingly imho), is a number of eclectic way of playing underpinned by playing principles.  He is not a one trip / trick pony, based on what I’ve seen so far

I’m a little surprised that some are not picking up the differences from game one to game nine.  What none of us really know at this point is whether the changes are reactions to what worked well (keep doing / improve), what hasn’t (stop doing / coach), individual game plans, realisation of strengths and weaknesses in what he has, a combo of all of these, or just good old Bristol City consistent in its inconsistency.

No two games have been the same.

The last two have been the closest to each other in likeness (on the face of it), but in Hull on Friday we had an opponent who could impose their game even though I thought we played pretty well.  Today Watford couldn’t, either we never let them or they were shit…maybe a bit of both.  We made 177 less passes today (366 vs 543) btw, which kinda contradicts my opening sentence in this paragraph, but hey-ho.  I’d argue that Hull were less easy to play through, hence we couldn’t be hot knife through butter like today.

Will Birmingham (a) be - “ah yes, this is our identity now”, or another type.

I still think we are too early to judge.

I set my 12 game target (mine only, others can do whatever they like).  All things being equal that is, ie not getting more injuries, ridiculous ref decisions impacting results, etc, he’s trending just above.  Fair play to him.  A very encouraging start.

26 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Really impressed with us today. What he says about not getting emotional . I get it . We weren’t & with & without the ball we looked in control. Being very picky , but if we made 2 or 3 better decisions up top we could have had 6 today . I get why Sykes went for goal , he’s confident . A simple pullback though& Tommy had a tap in. Plus a few poor passes final third first half . Best all round performance since possibly the Man U game 

I agree SSN.  I was annoyed he didn’t play Tommy, get him on the scoresheet, get that fourth goal and three goal advantage.  As long as he doesn’t do it when scoring / missing can affect a result, then I’ll let him off (ark at me!).

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

What do you mean by that @REDOXO? 

Mr Manning wants to play a possession based game.
 

He wants the team to play the ball until the opposition makes some kind of error in or out for possession. What was played in the last two games really wasn’t that. It was much more aggressive and we were prepared to lose possession in order to gain it back and go wider. Pring and Sykes hurt them today (and to be fair their subs keep that up) and the renaissance of Mehmetti is helpful and a feather in Mannings cap.
 

Do you honestly think we look anything like we did in his first few games?
 

I suspect not but perhaps you will make an argument we do! Not sure what some watch but there is a big change, mainly because we have basically a new signing 

Edited December 27, 2023 by REDOXO

[steviestevieneville]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t like that phrase particularly Harry, it’s a bit clichéd like “front foot, high press….” (You know the rest).

Today we played well.

Playing Devil’s advocate were we poorly coached in other games?  Was it Norwich you said at h-t “we look well coached”!

As you know I was more than happy when LM was appointed, in some ways JL’s and Tins’ description of what they wanted was a contradiction to what LM has played at MK Dons and Oxford.  Can’t comment on Lommel, but having watched a load of his interviews and a few highlights to supplement games I’d already seen with him in charge, I said to you I think we’ve got someone genuine (that’s kind of my best way I describing someone who believes what he wants to do, how he wants to play and why he’s doing it his way).

He talked a lot about adaptability, he talked a load about not being fixated on formations, etc, and of course processes.

And therefore my view of Manning-ball, if people seriously want to call it that (Holdenball was always used a bit jokingly imho), is a number of eclectic way of playing underpinned by playing principles.  He is not a one trip / trick pony, based on what I’ve seen so far

I’m a little surprised that some are not picking up the differences from game one to game nine.  What none of us really know at this point is whether the changes are reactions to what worked well (keep doing / improve), what hasn’t (stop doing / coach), individual game plans, realisation of strengths and weaknesses in what he has, a combo of all of these, or just good old Bristol City consistent in its inconsistency.

No two games have been the same.

The last two have been the closest to each other in likeness (on the face of it), but in Hull on Friday we had an opponent who could impose their game even though I thought we played pretty well.  Today Watford couldn’t, either we never let them or they were shit…maybe a bit of both.  We made 177 less passes today (366 vs 543) btw, which kinda contradicts my opening sentence in this paragraph, but hey-ho.  I’d argue that Hull were less easy to play through, hence we couldn’t be hot knife through butter like today.

Will Birmingham (a) be - “ah yes, this is our identity now”, or another type.

I still think we are too early to judge.

I set my 12 game target (mine only, others can do whatever they like).  All things being equal that is, ie not getting more injuries, ridiculous ref decisions impacting results, etc, he’s trending just above.  Fair play to him.  A very encouraging start.

I agree SSN.  I was annoyed he didn’t play Tommy, get him on the scoresheet, get that fourth goal and three goal advantage.  As long as he doesn’t do it when scoring / missing can affect a result, then I’ll let him off (ark at me!).

I do see that we’re adapting to games differently but not just how to stop them but how to exploit their weaknesses . He seems very horses for courses . I.E williams & knight’s energy against Livermore allowed us to get hold of midfield. I don’t really do stats but I was surprised to see Watford had more possession . It seemed like we constantly had possession /dictated/ controlled the game .

[cotswoldred2]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

I strongly suspect you seeing conflict, when there actually isn’t any.  

Have you ever considered that anyone mentioning playing a Pearson like system aren’t trying to pull LM down or wipe egg off their face?  

To me, it seems very much like an acceptance that our players aren’t suited to his original tactics, but now he’s moved closer to the style they’re used to, performance levels have risen accordingly.  I reckon that actually enhances LM’s coaching and tactical credentials, as it proves he has flexibility, which is great for us.

If you want to see all this in a negative light, that’s up to you but imho, I can’t see it myself.

My perception is that there are quite a few that are still hanging on to their dislike of the Pearson sacking, but not just Pearson the crayon boy quip, nest egg, front foot, top 6 and of course the Muppet quote to a picture of Jon and Steve at the game Friday, in game time. 

Pearson was a sour puss, that's a given, Manning is not and i can see the players are up for it.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

mainly because we have basically a new signing 

As I often say, players make “Systems” work, the vast majority of the time.

A confident Mehmeti brings a different technical element to Sam Bell, which helps Pring (imho).

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

My perception is that there are quite a few that are still hanging on to their dislike of the Pearson sacking, but not just Pearson the crayon boy quip, nest egg, front foot, top 6 and of course the Muppet quote to a picture of Jon and Steve at the game Friday, in game time. 

Pearson was a sour puss, that's a given, Manning is not and i can see the players are up for it.

But the small number on both sides just wanna point score, rather than discuss / debate objectively.

(I’m not sure Pearson was a sour puss, a number of players found him to be a cuddly father / uncle figure)

edit: not helped by complete Les / Dog / Londoner / Gabrielle / <insert new name until banned> who are just on here to shit stir.  They drag so many threads down.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Davefevs

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, cotswoldred2 said:

My perception is that there are quite a few that are still hanging on to their dislike of the Pearson sacking, but not just Pearson the crayon boy quip, nest egg, front foot, top 6 and of course the Muppet quote to a picture of Jon and Steve at the game Friday, in game time. 

Pearson was a sour puss, that's a given, Manning is not and i can see the players are up for it.

There some validity to your first paragraph . However your second is childish , severely lacking in respect at what Pearson did to rescue the club from a massive slide that under other managers wouldn’t have recovered from . My point is

manning couldn’t do what he’s doing if NP hadn’t stabilised it first . 

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

But the small number on both sides just wanna point score, rather than discuss / debate objectively.

(I’m not sure Pearson was a sour puss, a number of players found him to be a cuddly father / uncle figure)

Ask Kasper Schmiechel. 

[BrizzleRed]

49 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

My perception is that there are quite a few that are still hanging on to their dislike of the Pearson sacking, but not just Pearson the crayon boy quip, nest egg, front foot, top 6 and of course the Muppet quote to a picture of Jon and Steve at the game Friday, in game time. 

Pearson was a sour puss, that's a given, Manning is not and i can see the players are up for it.

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their view and you clearly have yours.

I also have mine too and I can assure you, it differs greatly from yours.  

I certainly don’t agree that it’s a ‘given’ that Pearson is a ‘sour puss’.  You may think so, but that certainly doesn’t automatically make it a given!

Why are you also assuming that any anti board/Lansdown/Pearson sacking is also anti-Manning?

I’ll bet the massive majority of pro-Pearson supporters are willing Liam Manning to do well, as it means the Club will also be doing well and what fan wouldn’t want that??

That doesn’t mean they’ll have forgiven those who are running the club for some of their actions and why should they be immune from criticism anyway?

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their view and you clearly have yours.

I also have mine too and I can assure you, it differs greatly from yours.  

I certainly don’t agree that it’s a ‘given’ that Pearson is a ‘sour puss’.  You may think so, but that certainly doesn’t automatically make it a given!

Why are you also assuming that any anti board/Lansdown/Pearson sacking is also anti-Manning?

I’ll bet the massive majority of pro-Pearson supporters are willing Liam Manning to do well, as it means the Club will also be doing well and what fan wouldn’t want that??

That doesn’t mean they’ll have forgiven those who are running the club for some of their actions and why should they be immune from criticism anyway?

Why do you bother?

[BrizzleRed]

3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Why do you bother?

I honestly don’t know mate, it’s pointless really …….. sometimes I just can’t help myself though!

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Why do you bother?

What do you mean ? I get his point .

i didn’t want Nige to be sacked . Can we please remember where we were just before he got given the job . A massive squad who’d down’d tools. A metaphorical cancer within the club . It was caused by the lansdowns & mark Ashton . Not once but for the second time in ten years . 
Pearson came in & did what SOD didn’t much better . 
I like mannings philosophy , but he couldn’t do it if nige hadn’t sorted the shitshow out before . 

[BCFC Rich]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

I do see that we’re adapting to games differently but not just how to stop them but how to exploit their weaknesses . He seems very horses for courses . I.E williams & knight’s energy against Livermore allowed us to get hold of midfield. I don’t really do stats but I was surprised to see Watford had more possession . It seemed like we constantly had possession /dictated/ controlled the game .

I think the possession stat is thrown because for nearly the entire 2nd half we were 2 up and didn't need to chase the game. So we were able to let them have the ball and almost say see if you can play through us. It's part of what I thought made a confident performance. The press was great and disciplined, we weren't in a hurry to get it back. We were confident the opportunity to do so would come. 

[transfer reader]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

But the small number on both sides just wanna point score, rather than discuss / debate objectively.

(I’m not sure Pearson was a sour puss, a number of players found him to be a cuddly father / uncle figure)

edit: not helped by complete Les / Dog / Londoner / Gabrielle / <insert new name until banned> who are just on here to shit stir.  They drag so many threads down.

I think most current managers (Pearson included) have enough about them to know that different players respond to different approaches. 

I'm sure he could be the father/uncle figure for some, and the 'sourpuss' for others.

Even in interviews I think he played up the perceived grumpiness a bit, but there was sometimes a bit of humour behind it.

Edited December 27, 2023 by transfer reader

[steviestevieneville]

32 minutes ago, BCFC Rich said:

I think the possession stat is thrown because for nearly the entire 2nd half we were 2 up and didn't need to chase the game. So we were able to let them have the ball and almost say see if you can play through us. It's part of what I thought made a confident performance. The press was great and disciplined, we weren't in a hurry to get it back. We were confident the opportunity to do so would come. 

So , by being 2-0 up then3-1 we still controlled the game by letting them have the ball .

[BCFC Rich]

7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

So , by being 2-0 up then3-1 we still controlled the game by letting them have the ball .

When they are passing at the back and even into midfield there is no threat, so yes, think you can let them have the ball in those positions. They have possession but it is controled. The impetus is on them to do something with it not for us to win it back.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

I honestly don’t know mate, it’s pointless really …….. sometimes I just can’t help myself though!

It is! Me too! But I have a brilliant knowledge of the ignore button. 
 

Thus if you talk nonsense and I don’t respond you are on the ignore/**** button!

[ExiledAjax]

8 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

our shots per game count has certainly risen significantly for sure.  

1 extra shot per game. Up from 11 per game under NP to 12 under LM. A 9% increase.

It's all come at home though which might be why people see a bigger increase. Shots at AG have gone from 10 to 13, whilst away from home we average almost exactly the same.

More important for me is that shots on target has increased by almost 50%, from 3 per game to 4.4 per game. Simultaneously shots on target against has come down to below 4 per game. I like that, I think it's good.

The average quality of these chances remains pretty consistent with NP's time here.

[Numero Uno]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t like that phrase particularly Harry, it’s a bit clichéd like “front foot, high press….” (You know the rest).

Today we played well.

Playing Devil’s advocate were we poorly coached in other games?  Was it Norwich you said at h-t “we look well coached”!

As you know I was more than happy when LM was appointed, in some ways JL’s and Tins’ description of what they wanted was a contradiction to what LM has played at MK Dons and Oxford.  Can’t comment on Lommel, but having watched a load of his interviews and a few highlights to supplement games I’d already seen with him in charge, I said to you I think we’ve got someone genuine (that’s kind of my best way I describing someone who believes what he wants to do, how he wants to play and why he’s doing it his way).

He talked a lot about adaptability, he talked a load about not being fixated on formations, etc, and of course processes.

And therefore my view of Manning-ball, if people seriously want to call it that (Holdenball was always used a bit jokingly imho), is a number of eclectic way of playing underpinned by playing principles.  He is not a one trip / trick pony, based on what I’ve seen so far

I’m a little surprised that some are not picking up the differences from game one to game nine.  What none of us really know at this point is whether the changes are reactions to what worked well (keep doing / improve), what hasn’t (stop doing / coach), individual game plans, realisation of strengths and weaknesses in what he has, a combo of all of these, or just good old Bristol City consistent in its inconsistency.

No two games have been the same.

The last two have been the closest to each other in likeness (on the face of it), but in Hull on Friday we had an opponent who could impose their game even though I thought we played pretty well.  Today Watford couldn’t, either we never let them or they were shit…maybe a bit of both.  We made 177 less passes today (366 vs 543) btw, which kinda contradicts my opening sentence in this paragraph, but hey-ho.  I’d argue that Hull were less easy to play through, hence we couldn’t be hot knife through butter like today.

Will Birmingham (a) be - “ah yes, this is our identity now”, or another type.

I still think we are too early to judge.

I set my 12 game target (mine only, others can do whatever they like).  All things being equal that is, ie not getting more injuries, ridiculous ref decisions impacting results, etc, he’s trending just above.  Fair play to him.  A very encouraging start.

I agree SSN.  I was annoyed he didn’t play Tommy, get him on the scoresheet, get that fourth goal and three goal advantage.  As long as he doesn’t do it when scoring / missing can affect a result, then I’ll let him off (ark at me!).

Great comment about the “well coached” part. The individual result each week does not mean the coaching was good or bad. Imo Liam got it right on the tactics board yesterday, spotted where Watford were weak/lazy and executed the plan spot on. Watford have some very good players and will be a threat to teams all season but we neutralised them fantastically whilst imposing ourselves on them whenever we had the ball. Classic away performance.

[CiderJar]

 

[cidered abroad]

7 hours ago, Harry said:

We saw a very well coached team today. 
 

A team where confidence is visibly growing match by match. There is improvement all over the team and while the Mehmeti performance is a stand out one, the subtle differences with Tanner and Williams are helping just as much.

I was upset when Pearson was dispensed with but it's not unusual in any walk of life, that a change is as good as a rest. NP did a fantastic job in helping us to become a proper football club again. Now it's Manning to guide us forward without having to right what was wrong three years ago.

COYREDS!

[TV Tom]

6 hours ago, cotswoldred2 said:

My perception is that there are quite a few that are still hanging on to their dislike of the Pearson sacking, but not just Pearson the crayon boy quip, nest egg, front foot, top 6 and of course the Muppet quote to a picture of Jon and Steve at the game Friday, in game time. 

Pearson was a sour puss, that's a given, Manning is not and i can see the players are up for it.

Agreed, i hate these disrespectful and offensive comments

[downendcity]

13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just to point out this isn't a gloat or a dig at Watford or their fans but losing to us can make opposing managers quite sour it seems!

Granted nobody likes losing, I know I don't but losing to us can make opposing managers quite churlish.

Martin was chippy after a victory vs us, Rosenior last week was quite irritable, Dodds was a bit too.

All down to Watford having an off day then, against Bristol we should be beating these City (to give us our full and proper name)!

 

 

[downendcity]

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

There some validity to your first paragraph . However your second is childish , severely lacking in respect at what Pearson did to rescue the club from a massive slide that under other managers wouldn’t have recovered from . My point is

manning couldn’t do what he’s doing if NP hadn’t stabilised it first . 

They are different managers with different personalities, attributes, abilities and approaches

It is probably the case that Manning could not have managed what NP was asked to do, and achieved, over the last two and a half years.

it could well be the case that NP could not have managed what Manning will go on to achieve in the next couple of seasons.

 

 

[johnheadbcfc]

7 hours ago, cotswoldred2 said:

My perception is that there are quite a few that are still hanging on to their dislike of the Pearson sacking, but not just Pearson the crayon boy quip, nest egg, front foot, top 6 and of course the Muppet quote to a picture of Jon and Steve at the game Friday, in game time. 

Pearson was a sour puss, that's a given, Manning is not and i can see the players are up for it.

It's got a tad boring now hasn't it