Jon and Brian - Time to Shine Boys

[Mattredrobin]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

What evidence have you seen in his body of work to date, as a coach leads you to the conclusion you make in your first line ?

Just from my own personal view not expecting anyone to think how I do at all....he talks about a modern way of playing, he did well with Oxford, and the players talk about how they enjoy training and its exciting, just all about opinions and this is just mine, happy to be proven wrong and have no issue at all if I'm wrong but think we just need to give the guy time and get behind him. 

[Sheltons Army]

3 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Pearson made his own bed. He publicly fuelled a fire with powers that be, by going to the media about his contract and position, with a sort of back me or sack me stance. The board didn't like that one little bit and sacked him. Had he said nothing, carried on about his job, he wouldn't have been fired. He may not have had his contract renewed in the summer, but he played his hand early and knew what he was doing. One could say, he forced their hand on purpose. 

Complete tosh 

In your weekly anti Pearson agenda , stretching back years you appear to have missed what I believe to actually be the turning point , and a red warning light 

That was when Jon ‘completely unqualified’ Lansdown made public comments a year or so earlier that we should be doing better than we were 

That was whilst Pearson was still in the latter stages of doing surgery on the mess he inherited.

His comments typified his complete lack of football knowledge and understanding , and an early alert that in no way did he or Daddy actually have any appreciation for the job Pearson had done to date.

I would guess , and there were indications that, that  p****d Pearson off and understandably I would think Pearson’s view of JL in particular was going to be difficult from that point on.

Any friction or breakdown in relationship lies at the Lansdowns door , particularly at Junior , later helped and fuelled I’d suggest by our Football Expert

[Mattredrobin]

13 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I thought we had a squad that had those qualities. So how come now we dont? 

We clearly Don't 

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, Mattredrobin said:

Just from my own personal view not expecting anyone to think how I do at all....he talks about a modern way of playing, he did well with Oxford, and the players talk about how they enjoy training and its exciting, just all about opinions and this is just mine, happy to be proven wrong and have no issue at all if I'm wrong but think we just need to give the guy time and get behind him. 

The players may enjoy training and find it exciting. 

As a Pro training every day, doing the basics, so they are second nature and ingrained, can become monotonous and ' boring' without a different structure. 

Finding different ways to ingrain those technical abilities is good. 

However...if it's exciting and ' enjoyable'...it doesn't mean it's right. 

For all we know, he could be trying to get players to play a certain way, that doesn't suit their game and not able to perform to a good level in the Championship. 

[steviestevieneville]

After a good nights sleep , I decided to tweet JL & tinnion this morning . I never swear & it’s as constructive as I can be . It was 4-5 tweets getting things off my chest . When I mentioned the squad not suiting manning & Brian being economical with the truth regarding NP he blocked me . I wonder why

[Mattredrobin]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

The players may enjoy training and find it exciting. 

As a Pro training every day, doing the basics, so they are second nature and ingrained, can become monotonous and ' boring' without a different structure. 

Finding different ways to ingrain those technical abilities is good. 

However...if it's exciting and ' enjoyable'...it doesn't mean it's right. 

For all we know, he could be trying to get players to play a certain way, that doesn't suit their game and not able to perform to a good level in the Championship. 

Of course, as I've said it's all about opinions, I'm choosing to believe in what I've seen so far and get behind manning, I know I'm in a small minority of fans that will do that. ( not that I think the majority aren't behind him, just unsure at the moment ) I just believe if he is given the right backing he will be a great coach for us. 

[redsquirrel]

5 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

After a good nights sleep , I decided to tweet JL & tinnion this morning . I never swear & it’s as constructive as I can be . It was 4-5 tweets getting things off my chest . When I mentioned the squad not suiting manning & Brian being economical with the truth regarding NP he blocked me . I wonder why

fair play for trying , i like your style, if you dont ask,you wont get. might not get anyway but at least you tried.

[steviestevieneville]

Just now, redsquirrel said:

fair play for trying , i like your style, if you dont ask,you wont get. might not get anyway but at least you tried.

I doubt Lansdown even reads twitter . Tinnion did though. I actually think , when I wrote . “ why are you , as a technical director of a professional football club private messaging people about transfer activity , he had enough  . 

[Natchfever]

22 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

When I mentioned the squad not suiting manning & Brian being economical with the truth regarding NP he blocked me . I wonder why

Because hes a treacherous *** who has brown nosed his way into a position no other club anywhere near our level would even consider him for.

[steviestevieneville]

4 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Because hes a treacherous *** who has brown nosed his way into a position no other club anywhere near our level would even consider him for.

Plus I did suggest that if he is professional he shouldn’t be in social media at all . Plus he can’t spell technical correctly

[redsquirrel]

im not going back until hes gone , i know my little one supporter me wont make a scrap of difference but i will not support a board who sack a good team of staff to suit their egos and agendas, 

its going to take a long time for jl and sl to see and then accept they might have trusted in the wrong person yet again so looks like another however many years of treading water until they do. only my opinion and one i intend to get verified one way or another but that will take time.  Having said all that, tinnion might have played a blinder and surprise me but i cant see anything of note in his past to suggest he might

[Natchfever]

1 minute ago, redsquirrel said:

im not going back until hes gone , i know my little one supporter me wont make a scrap of difference but i will not support a board who sack a good team of staff to suit their egos and agendas, 

its going to take a long time for jl and sl to see and then accept they might have trusted in the wrong person yet again so looks like another however many years of treading water until they do. only my opinion and one i intend to get verified one way or another but that will take time.  Having said all that, tinnion might have played a blinder and surprise me but i cant see anything of note in his past to suggest he might

Well done mate and im not renewing my sc.

People on here who say its all hot air and people will renew are 95%  right though, and until a few thousand vote with their wallets the egos will continue to sneer at the fan base.

Packed out pubs in BS3 at kick off with the clientele watching the game on telly would be a strong message, albeit very unlikely unfortunately.

[And Its Smith]

2 hours ago, bearded_red said:

He wasn’t brought in to bring his own squad, he was brought in to get more out of the current squad.

 

I know that. Bought in my the board. The fans can judge him how they want 

[And Its Smith]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Plenty said he was the best young manager in the country. 

Can’t see anyone saying that let alone plenty 

[marmite]

2 hours ago, bearded_red said:

He wasn’t brought in to bring his own squad, he was brought in to get more out of the current squad.

 

Top post! 

[Swede]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

Can’t see anyone saying that let alone plenty 

After having a proper experienced manager and backroom staff, the club refer to type and think they can save lots of money and do better by getting rid of the chief exec, manager & backroom staff and replace him with such an underwhelming inexperienced coach. I can't recall anyone saying he was the best young manager in the country. He's done f-all to date unless you count as an achievement getting Oxford to near the top of the third tier or initially doing well at another massive club MK Dons before getting bulleted. At least Eustace did it at Championship level.

I am really concerned that he doesn't have the technical knowhow to adapt and change during a match. This is increasingly becoming obvious especially when you come up against defensively minded teams. 

To use one of Manning's excruciating soundbites its all about behaviours & he is right. The behaviour of the board at this time has been nothing short of shocking.

Where are we now as a club? Pretty much the same as when we had Pearson, albeit now we have more back from injury yet we are doing worse.

Unlike others I can't see him lasting long here and that is because, like Pearson before him, the problem is not with the manager or head coach, it is more fundamental than that, its further up the chain of command.

 

[And Its Smith]

31 minutes ago, marmite said:

Top post! 

What the poster says is true but it was in a response to fans moving the goalposts in judging Manning.  That hasn’t happened 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Pearson made his own bed. He publicly fuelled a fire with powers that be, by going to the media about his contract and position, with a sort of back me or sack me stance. The board didn't like that one little bit and sacked him. Had he said nothing, carried on about his job, he wouldn't have been fired. He may not have had his contract renewed in the summer, but he played his hand early and knew what he was doing. One could say, he forced their hand on purpose. 

See @Sir Geoff’s post below

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

My hypothesis is that Manning does a decent job on analysing teams with all the data etc. I think LJ did too. Spends all week coaching them about how these teams will play. 

But then when those teams change and then Manning, like LJ, doesn't have that instinct to recognise what we need to change to counter their changes.

It seems he needs to wait for the data to come through about the changes the other team has made before we implement our own changes. By that time it's already too late. 

Unfortunately this I feel is where his lack of experience and Championship knowledge comes into it. Basically he's winging it and learning on the job. I'm not saying Pearson was perfect, but him and his team did have that experience and knowledge of the Championship. For example, and I'm hypothesising again, he may know that Lowe would make 3 changes and go more direct. 

I think Manning is a decent coach. But as a manager, I'm not convinced. He doesn't seem to be able to motivate players either at half time or from the sidelines. 

 

I was chatting to someone last night about in-game “management”.  It’s all well and good hearing that Hoggy thinks the same, they are in-tune…but sometimes you need someone to challenge your view.  I’m purely speculating here, but I can imagine both of them are so aligned in their way will come through, there is a naivety (I called it confidence / arrogance in my chat, before settling on naivety) that you don’t need to counter your opponent.  This is is their no1 lesson to learn imho.

5 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Pearson played his hand after an International break. Before the International break he was asked to 'stand down' (mutual consent).

Would you not be a bit peed off if you knew your bosses were asking you to leave, for no good reason ?

Yep, he took a stance that most would. Go out fighting.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

After a good nights sleep , I decided to tweet JL & tinnion this morning . I never swear & it’s as constructive as I can be . It was 4-5 tweets getting things off my chest . When I mentioned the squad not suiting manning & Brian being economical with the truth regarding NP he blocked me . I wonder why

What’s your Twitter name?  DM me if you feel you want to share but not on here.

[robinforlife2]

3 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Complete tosh 

In your weekly anti Pearson agenda , stretching back years you appear to have missed what I believe to actually be the turning point , and a red warning light 

That was when Jon ‘completely unqualified’ Lansdown made public comments a year or so earlier that we should be doing better than we were 

That was whilst Pearson was still in the latter stages of doing surgery on the mess he inherited.

His comments typified his complete lack of football knowledge and understanding , and an early alert that in no way did he or Daddy actually have any appreciation for the job Pearson had done to date.

I would guess , and there were indications that, that  p****d Pearson off and understandably I would think Pearson’s view of JL in particular was going to be difficult from that point on.

Any friction or breakdown in relationship lies at the Lansdowns door , particularly at Junior , later helped and fuelled I’d suggest by our Football Expert

 

My anti Pearson agenda stretching back years ???? The first I wasn't happy with him in charge was Xmas 2022 and we were playing awful. After the Boxing Day defeat to West Brom, I do think he should have been sacked. That's not an anti Pearson agenda stretching back years ...... He got 11 months longer in a job he was failing at. Yes he did turn it around somewhat, and I wasn't calling for his head when he was sacked. If you read some posts in the weeks prior to his dismissal, I actually said, I didn't think we should be renewing his deal, but see where we were end of the season, but at most a one year extension as he hadn't warranted a longer deal in what we had achieved. That's not a anti Pearson agenda! He never won me over, I don't think we achieved much, and I wasn't upset when he went. I own opinion is, we would have never achieved success under him. 

I genuinely think had he not gone to the media, the club would have let him see out his contract this year, but wouldn't have renewed it. 

Also, what makes Jon's comments about us should be doing better "completely unqualified" as you put it. 

[harvey54]

20 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Couldn’t agree less with respect. The two at the top HAVE to take responsibility and if they don’t then fans sitting back and doing **** all will have one ending.

For me, this is nothing to do with Manning UNTIL he is given the tools. If he doesn’t perform then he has to be accountable at that point.

Totally agree. I have a lot of respect for robbored but I struggle to support a manager I don't want and owners who have made unexplainable decisions and then fed us bull about why they made their decisions. 

The club lost me after Pearson was sacked. It was the last straw for me after years of poor decisions. SL may be a businessman but he's not a football man and continues to make decisions that prove this

[frenchred]

3 hours ago, Mattredrobin said:

Of course, as I've said it's all about opinions, I'm choosing to believe in what I've seen so far and get behind manning, I know I'm in a small minority of fans that will do that. ( not that I think the majority aren't behind him, just unsure at the moment ) I just believe if he is given the right backing he will be a great coach for us. 

What have you seen so far?

[harvey54]

4 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Complete tosh 

In your weekly anti Pearson agenda , stretching back years you appear to have missed what I believe to actually be the turning point , and a red warning light 

That was when Jon ‘completely unqualified’ Lansdown made public comments a year or so earlier that we should be doing better than we were 

That was whilst Pearson was still in the latter stages of doing surgery on the mess he inherited.

His comments typified his complete lack of football knowledge and understanding , and an early alert that in no way did he or Daddy actually have any appreciation for the job Pearson had done to date.

I would guess , and there were indications that, that  p****d Pearson off and understandably I would think Pearson’s view of JL in particular was going to be difficult from that point on.

Any friction or breakdown in relationship lies at the Lansdowns door , particularly at Junior , later helped and fuelled I’d suggest by our Football Expert

Spot on. The other thing that I can't understand was the statement that he wants us to 'play front foot football, have an identity and should challenge for promotion '. You can guarantee if they get good offers for Conway, Bell, Vyner etc they will be gone because for the Lansdowns, it's all about money. 

[Mattredrobin]

50 minutes ago, frenchred said:

What have you seen so far?

 we've dominated some games ok not all, and we also won 3 games on the trot which i cant remember the last time we did that, I think there are signs that what he's doing is working to a certain aspect. Ok the last 3 games haven't been great, but we are an inconsistent mid table team that's all we are, with the correct recruitment I believe manning can push us on. 

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, robinforlife2 said:

 

My anti Pearson agenda stretching back years ???? The first I wasn't happy with him in charge was Xmas 2022 and we were playing awful. After the Boxing Day defeat to West Brom, I do think he should have been sacked. That's not an anti Pearson agenda stretching back years ...... He got 11 months longer in a job he was failing at. Yes he did turn it around somewhat, and I wasn't calling for his head when he was sacked. If you read some posts in the weeks prior to his dismissal, I actually said, I didn't think we should be renewing his deal, but see where we were end of the season, but at most a one year extension as he hadn't warranted a longer deal in what we had achieved. That's not a anti Pearson agenda! He never won me over, I don't think we achieved much, and I wasn't upset when he went. I own opinion is, we would have never achieved success under him. 

I genuinely think had he not gone to the media, the club would have let him see out his contract this year, but wouldn't have renewed it. 

Also, what makes Jon's comments about us should be doing better "completely unqualified" as you put it. 

After the World cup break we beat Rotherham away 3-1 and threw away the home game to Stoke, Then the boxing day game v WBA. prior to the WC we held Watford 0-0 with Andy King at CH. Hardly playing awful.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

After the World cup break we beat Rotherham away 3-1 and threw away the home game to Stoke, Then the boxing day game v WBA. prior to the WC we held Watford 0-0 with Andy King at CH. Hardly playing awful.

Denied 2 clear penalties in that Watford game too, one in particular the boot to the head- was it Wells.

King wad good in that position v Watford and Rotherham, cost us v Stoke and West Brom but Stoke especially..

Edited January 14 by Mr Popodopolous

[Merrick's Marvels]

6 hours ago, bearded_red said:

The change in manager was supposedly to get more out of the squad we had.

An excellent point and one that deserves frequent repetition.

Unless, like you say, it was just more bullsh1t. Surely not.

[BUTOR]

Just looked at our next 4 fixtures. Watford, Leeds, Boro and Southampton. It’s not impossible, in fact probably quite likely, that our season could be over by March AGAIN. 

I am reminded that the worst form of football is this. Nothing to play for, languishing deadness. And we’ve had it from Spring onwards for as long as we’ve been in the Championship, barring one or two limp play off pushes under LJ and one sort of relegation battle. It’s unbearably boring. I don’t care how this sounds, give me a fiery survival battle over stuck in the mud nothingness every single time. I’m done with this non-movement. We’re the most 14th position team in Europe. Probably the world. If we can’t string a serious run of wins together then let’s sell our best players this month for cheap in order to go on a big losing run and have a bit of danger to contend with come April. I want to feel something, that’s the ******* point of all this 

[frenchred]

2 hours ago, Mattredrobin said:

 we've dominated some games ok not all, and we also won 3 games on the trot which i cant remember the last time we did that, I think there are signs that what he's doing is working to a certain aspect. Ok the last 3 games haven't been great, but we are an inconsistent mid table team that's all we are, with the correct recruitment I believe manning can push us on. 

But we were told, and you cannot escape the fact, that we have a top 6 squad that the previous manager should have done better with. Manning was brought in to realise this belief not to start all over again! At this present time he looks way out of his depth

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, frenchred said:

But we were told, and you cannot escape the fact, that we have a top 6 squad that the previous manager should have done better with. Manning was brought in to realise this belief not to start all over again! At this present time he looks way out of his depth

Under the old regime we achieved 21 points from 15 games (18 from 14 for Nige). Manning has had 12 games and got 15 points so needs 6 from his next three or 3 from his next 2 if you compare directly with Nige only to achieve the par that wasn’t good enough for the two muscateers.

The interesting thing is how do those two square that off with the comments they made? According to some we have a better coached team by a progressive manager not a dinosaur. How do we explain the lack of progress in terms of points if that’s the case?

The dinosaur and the progressive have achieved the same to all intents and purposes and the latter has less injury issues. Perhaps an admission by the hierarchy that they over estimated the squad quality is in order?