Tommy Conway

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

You don't recruit a head coach as fixed in their way as Manning if you're not comfortable with them bringing their style of football with them as well, regardless of whether it being the on the grass style coach that is the main point you want.

But even after the appointment they continued with the insistence that we wanted front foot, high press attacking football. Tinnion bizarrely said we were playing that way under Manning. 

When Manning came in here I raised questions about how his style was different to what we wanted. There was some hope that he would be able to adapt and that he wasn't set in his ways. At times he has but by and large we look like a toothless confused team. 

I wasn't present during the interview process obviously. But I think there was one of two things that happened. I don't for a second believe that we were willing to change what we wanted. So there was either a massive misunderstanding of Mannings style or Manning assured them that he could change his style to suit what we wanted and what we have. 

There was a fundamental flaw in the recruitment process because what Manning is, is not what we wanted. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But even after the appointment they continued with the insistence that we wanted front foot, high press attacking football. Tinnion bizarrely said we were playing that way under Manning. 

When Manning came in here I raised questions about how his style was different to what we wanted. There was some hope that he would be able to adapt and that he wasn't set in his ways. At times he has but by and large we look like a toothless confused team. 

I wasn't present during the interview process obviously. But I think there was one of two things that happened. I don't for a second believe that we were willing to change what we wanted. So there was either a massive misunderstanding of Mannings style or Manning assured them that he could change his style to suit what we wanted and what we have. 

There was a fundamental flaw in the recruitment process because what Manning is, is not what we wanted. 

My completely wild speculation.

Sack Nige.

Confirm shortlist.

Start sounding out shortlist.

Highest one to nibble, approach them / their club if they’re employed

Sell the club to prospect / I doubt prospect had to work too hard

Formalities

Announce

whats reckon?

[FNQ]

5 hours ago, SydneyCity said:

From what I understand, Celtic are one of the clubs interested and it may be similar for TC there.

Under Postecoglou, their forward - Kyogo - was prolific. The ball was moved into the box quickly and his movement and natural instinct meant he was always on the end of it for a goal.

Under Rodgers, Celtic are slow, and pass it around the back. Kyogo has been non-existent. His runs are futile and the ball simply isn’t getting to him in time.

Some on here have said TC isn’t suited to a lot of modern passing teams, but he is. Basically, any team that can get it to him, or his space, efficiently.

It’s actually quite depressing typing that out. We are at the stage where we can’t get a meaningful ball into the box

Celtic are the top scorers in the SPL and have scored as many as the third and fourth teams combined - 68 in 28 games. Rangers have scored 63 in 28 games. If Tommy went to either he’d score a hatful, it would not be much more challenging for him than playing in the U21s. I certainly don’t think he should go north of the border though, an in form young championship forward will always attract more attention from the premier league, (which would be his dream.. he’s not really Scottish), than an SPL equivalent IMO.

[FNQ]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

My completely wild speculation.

Sack Nige.

Confirm shortlist. A PUNT ON RELATIVE LOW COST YOUNG LEAGUE ONE (OR BELOW) TALENT - TINNION ‘s PROVEN METHODOLOGY

Start sounding out shortlist.

Highest one to nibble, approach them / their club if they’re employed

Sell the club to prospect / I doubt prospect had to work too hard

Formalities

Announce

whats reckon?

Just an update to point #3.

[redsquirrel]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

My completely wild speculation.

Sack Nige.

Confirm shortlist.

Start sounding out shortlist.

Highest one to nibble, approach them / their club if they’re employed

Sell the club to prospect / I doubt prospect had to work too hard

Formalities

Announce

whats reckon?

another championship manager got the bullet just before NP , ive completely forgotten who it was, but they were doing well and seemed an unjustified sacking.  pure guess on my part but the timing to me made it look like we booted Nige thinking this bloke would walk straight in with open arms but took one look and said no thanks leaving us in limbo so they panicked,looked at league one,oxford were 2nd, 'their manager must be good; so went and grabbed him. pure guess ,could it have been like that? 

fwiw, i dont think mannings style of play was anything to do with the process as Tinnion was going to do his bit there if i heard the interview right

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, redsquirrel said:

another championship manager got the bullet just before NP , ive completely forgotten who it was, but they were doing well and seemed an unjustified sacking.  pure guess on my part but the timing to me made it look like we booted Nige thinking this bloke would walk straight in with open arms but took one look and said no thanks leaving us in limbo so they panicked,looked at league one,oxford were 2nd, 'their manager must be good; so went and grabbed him. pure guess ,could it have been like that? 

fwiw, i dont think mannings style of play was anything to do with the process as Tinnion was going to do his bit there if i heard the interview right

Eustace. There was a rumour that he was first choice and had been seen at HPC.

[Sir Geoff]

5 hours ago, FNQ said:

Celtic are the top scorers in the SPL and have scored as many as the third and fourth teams combined - 68 in 28 games. Rangers have scored 63 in 28 games. If Tommy went to either he’d score a hatful, it would not be much more challenging for him than playing in the U21s. I certainly don’t think he should go north of the border though, an in form young championship forward will always attract more attention from the premier league, (which would be his dream.. he’s not really Scottish), than an SPL equivalent IMO.

Would be a good stepping stone though, even to a top end Championship club. Play in front of 50, 000 crowds, score loads of goals, play in Europe, get full International recognition. Bit of a no brainer, if you back yourself to make the Premier League eventually.

[1960maaan]

6 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Would be a good stepping stone though, even to a top end Championship club. Play in front of 50, 000 crowds, score loads of goals, play in Europe, get full International recognition. Bit of a no brainer, if you back yourself to make the Premier League eventually.

Exactly and the U21 comparison doesn't stand up. The non competitive part of Scottish football is actually winning things , the games are nothing like U21s. 

His representatives will be sounding out top Championship & lower Prem sides to see who is interested. I would imagine the fact he (we) aren't scoring loads it would have to be a lower Prem , or newly promoted sides willing to take a punt.
If there are none, Celtic or Rangers would be a good move , as the next step.

[alexukhc]

Hat trick today for Tommy

[SydneyCity]

5 hours ago, FNQ said:

Celtic are the top scorers in the SPL and have scored as many as the third and fourth teams combined - 68 in 28 games. Rangers have scored 63 in 28 games. If Tommy went to either he’d score a hatful, it would not be much more challenging for him than playing in the U21s. I certainly don’t think he should go north of the border though, an in form young championship forward will always attract more attention from the premier league, (which would be his dream.. he’s not really Scottish), than an SPL equivalent IMO.

There’s no denying both teams score goals, as you’d expect… but for Celtic, at least, this season has been remarkably poor compared to expectations. Ange got Celtic scoring 284 goals in his two seasons there!

I think one of the top two in Scotland would be good for TC. Work on his game, play Champions League football and/or go far in other European comps. If he does well, I’d say it’s a more likely route to the PL than signing for another Champ team.

[robinforlife2]

11 hours ago, bexhill reds said:

No one is irreplaceable granted, and I appreciate that quite often your views can be contrary, but no one is stating that TC is the finished article, but to write him off at this stage in his career I think is very short sighted, you don’t get many strikers on top of their game at his age, he’s still learning his trade. His finishing ability will have lots of people looking at him as one to develop further.

Ultimately if he’s not going to sign, then we’ll have to sell, and undoubtedly he will have had his mate in his ear on what Prem earnings are, it’s just a crying shame that our current way of playing seems to have a complete aversion to creating any sort of meaningful chance unless it’s a corner, and I get why a young kid would be massively frustrated and to look elsewhere.

No issue about being “gifted” goals, if that’s what you believe, although again i think that’s perhaps a line to be deliberately obtuse, but all good striking double acts tend to have one of them scoring more than the other - Turner and Taylor is a good City example, you’ve still got to put them away.

I suspect if he was enjoying his football then he might be slightly less inclined to go, but there is nothing about the way we are playing him that suggests he is enjoying he football right now, and frankly I’d have to agree with him. What Manning is serving up is mostly dull and to opposition managers is seemingly very predictable football.

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I want to pick up on two points you make.

Firstly, I agree, that TC is still very raw, he has potential and he may not be at the top of his game yet. That said, he is a player demanding a wage which would make him one of the clubs top earners, if not the top earner and for me, he has not earned that yet. He is listening to his Premier League buddies, and some of the raw hype and imo I believe that TC believes he can just waltz into another top club, and that he too, can be like his mates on big bucks in the premier league. It is because of this, I don't think he will make it, and will end up, being a mid table Championship player, not because he doesn't have the potential, or the ability to be a better player, but because he is making a fatal error career wise, that he is right now better than he actually is.

This leads me on to my second point, Conway has been aided by Nahki Wells and in many ways has looked a shadow of the player since we have moved away from that partnership for numerous reasons. Therefore I believe they complement each other, and without that pairing, in many ways, both have struggled. Good partnerships are as you say a great thing and one has to be the provider and the other has to put them away, but when you remove that nucleus, you often see a player struggle. I think Conway has struggled without Wells, and Wells has struggled without Conway, but I think the chances of Conway getting the same service, unselfishness from other players is unlikely, and because he seems unable to have a different side to him, in that he can't really make goals, I think he will ultimately struggle to make an impact at this level.

I know I will be called mad, but I would like to see a 2 up top of Mehmeti and Wells given a run out. Nahki holds the ball well, brings players off their man and can make those clever switches and passes to feed a player. I think Anis, works too hard, he wants to do everything himself and he wants to do all the tricks, in playing out wide, he is invited to take on his man, which he does so well, until his final ball or end product lets him down. That said, he has pace, he has a bit of trickery in him, and I think playing off Nahki and keeping it simple with a top 2, he will find more space, more positioning to take on his man, and get in the positions to score goals. For me, Anis is the potential turn a corner player we have, he just needs to be focussed on a path and be played in a position that will utilise his strengths. As a winger, he reminds me a lot of Bobby Reid, in that he flattered to deceive, but playing up top, I think could see a completely different player and one who could score and be involved in a lot of goals. I hope Manning gives him a shot up top pre season, as I could see it really transforming Anis into the player he has the potential to be, and unlike Conway, he actually wants to be here. 

[Back of the Dolman]

6 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I want to pick up on two points you make.

Firstly, I agree, that TC is still very raw, he has potential and he may not be at the top of his game yet. That said, he is a player demanding a wage which would make him one of the clubs top earners, if not the top earner and for me, he has not earned that yet. He is listening to his Premier League buddies, and some of the raw hype and imo I believe that TC believes he can just waltz into another top club, and that he too, can be like his mates on big bucks in the premier league. It is because of this, I don't think he will make it, and will end up, being a mid table Championship player, not because he doesn't have the potential, or the ability to be a better player, but because he is making a fatal error career wise, that he is right now better than he actually is.

This leads me on to my second point, Conway has been aided by Nahki Wells and in many ways has looked a shadow of the player since we have moved away from that partnership for numerous reasons. Therefore I believe they complement each other, and without that pairing, in many ways, both have struggled. Good partnerships are as you say a great thing and one has to be the provider and the other has to put them away, but when you remove that nucleus, you often see a player struggle. I think Conway has struggled without Wells, and Wells has struggled without Conway, but I think the chances of Conway getting the same service, unselfishness from other players is unlikely, and because he seems unable to have a different side to him, in that he can't really make goals, I think he will ultimately struggle to make an impact at this level.

I know I will be called mad, but I would like to see a 2 up top of Mehmeti and Wells given a run out. Nahki holds the ball well, brings players off their man and can make those clever switches and passes to feed a player. I think Anis, works too hard, he wants to do everything himself and he wants to do all the tricks, in playing out wide, he is invited to take on his man, which he does so well, until his final ball or end product lets him down. That said, he has pace, he has a bit of trickery in him, and I think playing off Nahki and keeping it simple with a top 2, he will find more space, more positioning to take on his man, and get in the positions to score goals. For me, Anis is the potential turn a corner player we have, he just needs to be focussed on a path and be played in a position that will utilise his strengths. As a winger, he reminds me a lot of Bobby Reid, in that he flattered to deceive, but playing up top, I think could see a completely different player and one who could score and be involved in a lot of goals. I hope Manning gives him a shot up top pre season, as I could see it really transforming Anis into the player he has the potential to be, and unlike Conway, he actually wants to be here. 

You must be seeing a different Anis Mehmeti to the one I see !

If taking on his man is constantly coming inside onto his right foot and never switching it up to go outside his man then you are correct. There is no variation in his play and I’m sure Championship right backs find him pretty easy to deal with.

I question that he has pace, as if he did then we may actually see him go outside his man every so often but he can’t do it and as you say his end product nearly always lets him down so to rely on him to be the one converting chances seems risky.

Mehmeti was bought as a wide man after his performances as a wide man and from what I can see he never played as a striker for Wycombe ever.

You may have spotted something that no manager has ever seen in Anis but I doubt it.

As for the point that Anis wants to be here and Tommy doesn’t, I’d suggest Conway works harder on the pitch than Anis does in closing down and challenging opposition players.

 

[Davefevs]

@robinforlife2 I think TC is a good player now.  I don’t think he’s raw.  We are playing a system that just doesn’t suit him.  It doesn’t really suit any forwards.

If as per press conference LM is gonna have to adapt, and go back to something akin to how we played before he arrived, them we can see how TC fares in that system.

To hear TC’s press conference and hear him talk more about the without the ball stuff was utterly depressing, and I’m no psychologist, not even an amateur one, but there spoke a player unhappy with the way the team were playing.  He’s working his nuts off in the press / block to be starved of service.