5 wins in 18 games….dreadful!

[petehinton]

3 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Being honest, I’d say it was a mistake to judge how motivational a manager is or isn’t when speaking to players based on how they communicate with the press. How a manager speaks to those outside the club, how a manager speaks to the dressing room as a group and how a manager speaks to players 1:1 are three different skill sets and being good or bad at one does not necessarily mean they will be good or bad at the others. I have no idea how motivational Manning is in a dressing room because I’ve never seen him in a dressing room.

This. I’ve been astounded at some of the best coaches/managers I’ve seen at any level, and how different they are ‘in the zone’ compared to off the pitch. It brings out totally different sides to people. 
 

Same as players I guess. Korey Smith by all accounts off the pitch is the most placid, quiet, laid back guy ever but as soon as the whistle went he was a Duracell bunny who’d scream and shout at anyone in his eyeline. 

[Monkeh]

41 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s another strand of the common theme here isn’t it? Adaptability. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that LM hasn’t adapted his preferred methods of playing to fit the squad, and I also don’t think it’s unfair to say that he’s struggled to adapt to changes in game. It is a theory as you rightly say, but what we do know about LM is that he’s really systematic, planning, data driven as opposed to instinctive. People in the former group do tend to struggle more with adapting to the preferences of different personality types, so it wouldn’t be a theory without merit.

It's another reason why the change in manager should of been made at the end of the season

[Silvio Dante]

17 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

It's another reason why the change in manager should of been made at the end of the season

You never know, we still might do!

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

You never know, we still might do!

I don't see it, the board have the man they want, so much so they were willing to sack Pearson during an injury crisis and bring in a man with a crippled squad and a whole new plan, it was a wild decision to make but I feel like they'd had enough of the fans all getting behind Pearson and wanted a man who does as he's told. Manning hits me as a very methodical man, he makes a plan and keeps working towards it, no deviation at all no matter what and that's why when it goes well it looks great but when he's struggling he's not willing to change things to patch the leaks, instead he sticks firm until things fall in place. 
I think we have Manning for a minimum of a full season next season, the board will give him a preseason, more time to make the changes he requires and then if it's still failing their hand will be forced. I see Manning being here until the end of the 24/25 season, unless shit really hits the fan and we find ourselves battling relegation at which point the board will have no option but to find a Pearson manager, someone willing to come in, fix the mess they've created and get us back on track.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

I am still happy to give Manning time as he's still using Pearsons players, but if he manages to change so many players in the squad and his tactical vision still overlooks players weaknesses whilst failing to come to fruition then his days are already numbered regardless of what he does as he's not the type of manager to build his team on players strengths and weaknesses, he builds his tactics and tries to implied the right players to execute it, something that you need money to buy the right players to pull off effectively. 

If Manning is canned in the next 18 months because the job is too much for him then Sid 100% has to be booted out of the door with him as far as I'm concerned. We're still left with the inept (when it comes to football decision making rather than redeveloping the stadium or building a great training ground and then giving it a name that a five year old would think twice about) Lansdown's, nothing can be done about that unfortunately.

Let's be fair about this, and I am one who is very wary of getting on Manning's back early as the whole shambolic situation is down to Jon and Sid, had Nige resigned of his own volition due to ill health and with no controversy attached whatsoever, Liam Manning's record to date would be under FAR GREATER scrutiny than it is currently. You do have a minority of the fanbase that won't have him full stop, most of the fan base that have an open mind and are judging as they go and the other (larger) minority are Bristol Sport sympathisers who are literally giving Manning a free ride simply because he isn't Nige (people pretending that Birmingham, Millwall, Preston and Leeds haven't happened since Boxing Day).

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't see it, the board have the man they want, so much so they were willing to sack Pearson during an injury crisis and bring in a man with a crippled squad and a whole new plan, it was a wild decision to make but I feel like they'd had enough of the fans all getting behind Pearson and wanted a man who does as he's told. Manning hits me as a very methodical man, he makes a plan and keeps working towards it, no deviation at all no matter what and that's why when it goes well it looks great but when he's struggling he's not willing to change things to patch the leaks, instead he sticks firm until things fall in place. 
I think we have Manning for a minimum of a full season next season, the board will give him a preseason, more time to make the changes he requires and then if it's still failing their hand will be forced. I see Manning being here until the end of the 24/25 season, unless shit really hits the fan and we find ourselves battling relegation at which point the board will have no option but to find a Pearson manager, someone willing to come in, fix the mess they've created and get us back on track.

I see a few small signs of doubt, or perhaps better explanation, slight confusion that process doesn’t equal outcome, and maybe the process has some kinks in it.

Back to @Silvio Dante and his “adaptability” term, or perhaps lack of understanding cause and effect at a level when you don’t have superior footballers.

I find myself missing “pragmatism”.

[Silvio Dante]

32 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't see it, the board have the man they want, so much so they were willing to sack Pearson during an injury crisis and bring in a man with a crippled squad and a whole new plan, it was a wild decision to make but I feel like they'd had enough of the fans all getting behind Pearson and wanted a man who does as he's told. Manning hits me as a very methodical man, he makes a plan and keeps working towards it, no deviation at all no matter what and that's why when it goes well it looks great but when he's struggling he's not willing to change things to patch the leaks, instead he sticks firm until things fall in place. 
I think we have Manning for a minimum of a full season next season, the board will give him a preseason, more time to make the changes he requires and then if it's still failing their hand will be forced. I see Manning being here until the end of the 24/25 season, unless shit really hits the fan and we find ourselves battling relegation at which point the board will have no option but to find a Pearson manager, someone willing to come in, fix the mess they've created and get us back on track.

To be fair, I was joking!

I think what you outline is the most likely set of scenarios.

[mozo]

This thread is hilarious!

Apparently, Manning is tactically inept, can't motivate players, is devaluing our assets and is out of his depth in all ways. 

And yet somehow our team managed to outhustle West Ham twice, were a match for Forest and came very close to a win at Coventry, all in recent weeks. 

Manning must be flukiest head coach in the world. 

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

This thread is hilarious!

Apparently, Manning is tactically inept, can't motivate players, is devaluing our assets and is out of his depth in all ways. 

And yet somehow our team managed to outhustle West Ham twice, were a match for Forest and came very close to a win at Coventry, all in recent weeks. 

Manning must be flukiest head coach in the world. 

Love the condescending Post

How many points did west ham and forest give us by the way?

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

Love the condescending Post

How many points did west ham and forest give us by the way?

Probably a lot of revenue actually

[LondonBristolian]

11 hours ago, Ryan said:

We are back to being a poor quality relegation threatened team, with a ridiculously inexperienced head coach who no doubt is working tirelessly and doing his best - as did LJ and Holden. We are also back to the policy of collecting players again. This was how it was before Pearson, and is clearly how the owner, his son amd BT want it. It didnt work then, and it won't work now, but for some reason they either cant see it or dont care. 

I think this post needs a little bit of context. We've used (by my count) 19 players this season and have between 23 and 25 senior first team players, depending on if you count HRW and Benarous. Even though we added 6 players in the transfer window, 1 was a permanent signing of someone who was already here, 2 are loaned back out and 1 isn't first team ready. In practice we've gained 2 players and lost 1 player from a squad that has frequently lacked enough fit players to fill the bench. It is true that 3 more signings will come into the squad by the summer but 4 players are out of contract at that point so it remains to be seen whether the new signings add to the number of players in the squad or simply replace those who are going to be leaving. 

There's plenty of utterly valid criticisms to aim at JL, Tinnion and Manning but "collecting players" strikes me as massively inaccurate based on the evidence.

Edited February 4 by LondonBristolian

[Monkeh]

4 minutes ago, mozo said:

Probably a lot of revenue actually

And?

How many points did it get us, are we now closer to the play-offs because of it?

Or is it just papering over cracks that's starting to reflect on players body language 

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, mozo said:

Probably a lot of revenue actually

Bit confused of the relevance here. Nobody has criticised Manning or anyone else for failing to bring revenue into the club. 

[Numero Uno]

16 minutes ago, mozo said:

This thread is hilarious!

Apparently, Manning is tactically inept, can't motivate players, is devaluing our assets and is out of his depth in all ways. 

And yet somehow our team managed to outhustle West Ham twice, were a match for Forest and came very close to a win at Coventry, all in recent weeks. 

Manning must be flukiest head coach in the world. 

What isn’t quite as “hilarious” is despite those performances when we arrive in Middlesbrough next Saturday we won’t have won a game in the league for over six weeks picking up three points in six games during that period. Notwithstanding some of the more controversial comments why you wouldn’t expect that to be at least a concern to many is puzzling.

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

And?

How many points did it get us, are we now closer to the play-offs because of it?

Or is it just papering over cracks that's starting to reflect on players body language 

And... cup runs are important a/ for the revenue, b/ for the fun factor (I'm sure if City somehow get that game Man U you'll show some interest).

We're not closer to the playoffs, we're about a point further away, but we weren't ever going to get in the playoffs anyway. 

I think players are probably fatigued with what has been a punishing schedule. If you think something more sinister is going on, that's fine. Let's see how it plays out.

Fact is, we can't reinstate Nige, we can't change the fact that the board talk bollocks, we can't change the appointment of Manning, and whether you like it or not, Manning is 99% gonna be our head coach next season, and neither you or me know how that is gonna play out.

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Bit confused of the relevance here. Nobody has criticised Manning or anyone else for failing to bring revenue into the club. 

Read the exchange with Monkeh... 

It was put to me that the we didn't get points from the Forest or WHU games, suggesting those spirited performances were of no value. So I clarified the obvious value. 

Basically, Monkeh is trying to suggest I can't use those impressive cup games as evidence that Manning has achieved good performances from his players. I dispute that. 

[ProfitInMyPocket]

21 minutes ago, mozo said:

This thread is hilarious!

Apparently, Manning is tactically inept, can't motivate players, is devaluing our assets and is out of his depth in all ways. 

And yet somehow our team managed to outhustle West Ham twice, were a match for Forest and came very close to a win at Coventry, all in recent weeks. 

Manning must be flukiest head coach in the world. 

Well, he doesnt change from his system no matter what. He's not tactically inept with how we wants us to play but he certainly doesn't deviate from that if it ain't working.

We seem to be conceding after half time quite often so the motivation factor? I don't know.

Players with value like Conway/Bell not being played to their strengths or in their right position certainly doesn't help their value going forward. Even Jason Knight (who I'm not the biggest fan of) shouldn't be played in an attacking right position, doesnt bring a lot there but he perseveres with it for god knows what reason.

He's not out of his depth but he's not showing good early signs bar the ball retention in our own half - which got picked to pieces by a pressing Leeds. 

If a team doesn't press us like the games you mentioned we do pretty well. But not every team plays the same and I hope other teams don't catch on.

 

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What isn’t quite as “hilarious” is despite those performances when we arrive in Middlesbrough next Saturday we won’t have won a game in the league for over six weeks picking up three points in six games during that period. Notwithstanding some of the more controversial comments why you wouldn’t expect that to be at least a concern to many is puzzling.

I didn't say it wasn't a concern, I'm saying that people are jumping to wild conclusions. 

The way people are talking, you'd think that we're getting hammered every week. We're not. In fact we've been rubbish in precisely one consecutive game as it stands. 

 

[mozo]

1 minute ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Well, he doesnt change from his system no matter what. He's not tactically inept with how we wants us to play but he certainly doesn't deviate from that if it ain't working.

We seem to be conceding after half time quite often so the motivation factor? I don't know.

Players with value like Conway/Bell not being played to their strengths or in their right position certainly doesn't help their value going forward. Even Jason Knight (who I'm not the biggest fan of) shouldn't be played in an attacking right position, doesnt bring a lot there but he perseveres with it for god knows what reason.

He's not out of his depth but he's not showing good early signs bar the ball retention in our own half - which got picked to pieces by a pressing Leeds. 

If a team doesn't press us like the games you mentioned we do pretty well. But not every team plays the same and I hope other teams don't catch on.

 

You've put that in quite a measured way. And time will tell. I've got no issue with you having doubts, it's just that some of the reaction is overboard which I find amusing (sorry!)

[lenred]

4 minutes ago, mozo said:

I didn't say it wasn't a concern, I'm saying that people are jumping to wild conclusions. 

The way people are talking, you'd think that we're getting hammered every week. We're not. In fact we've been rubbish in precisely one consecutive game as it stands. 

 

Agree re the cup games.  Second half v West Ham away for me was especially good. And we’re not getting hammered at all.  But we are bottom of the form table and to me it’s beginning to become a worry now how lacklustre and inept we look on the final third of the pitch.  Completely toothless and rigid.  

[Gert Mare]

I think the biggest problem with this club is the unnecessary micro-management by the board. Old big head would be turning in his grave.

[Sheltons Army]

31 minutes ago, mozo said:

This thread is hilarious!

Apparently, Manning is tactically inept, can't motivate players, is devaluing our assets and is out of his depth in all ways. 

And yet somehow our team managed to outhustle West Ham twice, were a match for Forest and came very close to a win at Coventry, all in recent weeks. 

Manning must be flukiest head coach in the world. 

Drama..........much

 

Hilarious ?

Whatever rare posts you are referring to I’m not sure but there’s some interesting thoughts and posters and on LM and where we are , may head ,  in amongst everything on this thread , and others , with some genuine things to keep an eye on.

Just for example the discussion around Tommy Conway is completely valid , is it not ? (and really important IMHO)

the change in formation and how certain players including Twine fit into that - Valid discussion ?

The inflexibility in , in game changes or styles ? valid discussion ?

 

For me they are just examples of very valid discussions

Setting aside any ‘Liam Manning is ‘clueless’ type posts there’s some decent discussion around

I’ve said a few times I’m all a bit confused about what LM has in mind , to form any significant idea how this may pan out , and some of others posts are interesting and thought provoking 

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

Agree re the cup games.  Second half v West Ham away for me was especially good. And we’re not getting hammered at all.  But we are bottom of the form table and to me it’s beginning to become a worry now how lacklustre and inept we look on the final third of the pitch.  Completely toothless and rigid.  

Yeah and if we now start losing every week, everyone can pile in on me and say I told you so.

I've got no issue with debating Manning's team selections, formations, in game decisions etc, or anything really, I just think that making these decisive comments about him already is seriously jumping the gun. 

[Antman]

37 minutes ago, mozo said:

Probably a lot of revenue actually

£10 tickets, prob less than you'd imagine.

[lenred]

Just now, mozo said:

Yeah and if we now start losing every week, everyone can pile in on me and say I told you so.

I've got no issue with debating Manning's team selections, formations, in game decisions etc, or anything really, I just think that making these decisive comments about him already is seriously jumping the gun. 

He will of course get more time.  Probably a lot more time.   But I think we have seen enough now to be able to start to form an opinion which, very much of course, may well alter over further time.   My opinion now is what we are being served up is not anywhere near what we were promised by the clowns at the top.  That it’s not front foot football. That our players have not improved one iota due to more ‘time on the grass’ (if anything some key players have regressed) and as aforementioned we look toothless in the main.  I very much hope we can get some joy at the City Ground on Weds night and hoping the late night will be worth it for all of us going up there, but the cup cannot detract from the bread and butter of the League, and that form needs to improve rapidly.  

[mozo]

6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Drama..........much

 

Hilarious ?

Whatever rare posts you are referring to I’m not sure but there’s some interesting thoughts and posters and on LM and where we are , may head ,  in amongst everything on this thread , and others , with some genuine things to keep an eye on.

Just for example the discussion around Tommy Conway is completely valid , is it not ? (and really important IMHO)

the change in formation and how certain players including Twine fit into that - Valid discussion ?

The inflexibility in , in game changes or styles ? valid discussion ?

 

For me they are just examples of very valid discussions

Setting aside any ‘Liam Manning is ‘clueless’ type posts there’s some decent discussion around

I’ve said a few times I’m all a bit confused about what LM has in mind , to form any significant idea how this may pan out , and some of others posts are interesting and thought provoking 

We had a post crossover and my previous post kind of responded to what you're saying here. I've seen a lot of overreaction, which is classic OTIB. 

The Conway value thing I think ridiculous. Fevs is a forum legend and knows more about football that me, but we were struggling in the final third prior to Manning coming in. We've got no evidence that Conway would have scored more goals if NP was still manager, and we never accused NP of devaluing Bell when his form dropped off. 

I find it funny because it feels like people already clutching at any stick to beat the current gaffer with.

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

He will of course get more time.  Probably a lot more time.   But I think we have seen enough now to be able to start to form an opinion which, very much of course, may well alter over further time.   My opinion now is what we are being served up is not anywhere near what we were promised by the clowns at the top.  That it’s not front foot football. That our players have not improved one iota due to more ‘time on the grass’ (if anything some key players have regressed) and as aforementioned we look toothless in the main.  I very much hope we can get some joy at the City Ground on Weds night and hoping the late night will be worth it for all of us going up there, but the cup cannot detract from the bread and butter of the League, and that form needs to improve rapidly.  

No it's 100% not what those clowns promised, but we knew that was bollocks at the time, so you can't use it as a stick to beat Manning with. He's just trying to do his job.

[Monkeh]

33 minutes ago, mozo said:

And... cup runs are important a/ for the revenue, b/ for the fun factor (I'm sure if City somehow get that game Man U you'll show some interest).

We're not closer to the playoffs, we're about a point further away, but we weren't ever going to get in the playoffs anyway. 

I think players are probably fatigued with what has been a punishing schedule. If you think something more sinister is going on, that's fine. Let's see how it plays out.

Fact is, we can't reinstate Nige, we can't change the fact that the board talk bollocks, we can't change the appointment of Manning, and whether you like it or not, Manning is 99% gonna be our head coach next season, and neither you or me know how that is gonna play out.

The fatigued point is a good one and well made, something that's not talked about enough,

No doubt the cup run has made money, but its peanuts compared to getting into the play offs 

[mozo]

3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

The fatigued point is a good one and well made, something that's not talked about enough,

No doubt the cup run has made money, but its peanuts compared to getting into the play offs 

Yeah I would much rather get into the playoffs, somehow. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

The fatigued point is a good one and well made, something that's not talked about enough,

No doubt the cup run has made money, but its peanuts compared to getting into the play offs 

Cup runs can spur Championship sides on.

Not us it seems but they can..

See Burnley 2008-09, pre Parachure Payments..had a very similar run to us and won the playoffs.

Think WBA won the League after reaching the FA Cup semi finals in 2008?

Blackburn last year, they went quite far in the Cup, were in the race for the playoffs a game or 2 from the end.