Sound of the city

[daored]

8 hours ago, chinapig said:

The thing is I have no idea what the Lansdown Way is. Worse, I'm not sure he does either.

Is it funding scatter gun recruitment, doubling the wage bill and putting the club in a financial hole?

Is it developing academy players to sell on at the earliest opportunity or to keep them as the core of the team?

Is it appointing an experienced manager and CEO and letting them use their expertise or rookies who will do as they are told because he knows best?

I agree he wants to prove he's a football expert despite the evidence to the contrary. It's not unusual for people who have become rich because they are expert in one field to believe they can be the same in any other field they choose imo.

I don't see him changing sadly.

The problem is and has always been our owner always looks at other clubs and then wants to copy their blueprint. We’ve heard it all before and you can list the clubs , Swansea, Reading, Brighton, Brentford, now Luton (I’m sure I’ve missed numerous of others off). No doubt it Ipswich get promoted , they’ll say we need to do what Ipswich have  done - although to an extent we’re trying to copy the inexperienced head coach route. 
 

I’d just wish they’d draw up a philosophy and stick it to, ignore outside noise and what other clubs are and aren’t doing. Because we try to copy and take snippets we end up in a mess. How many times does this happen? It’s a culture from the top and probably why we’ve never moved forward (on the pitch). We’ve needed experienced football people in the club , making decisions and allowed the opportunity to make those decisions rightly or wrongly.

What our owner doesn’t see is that sometimes a club gets momentum and becomes a force , like Luton, sometimes it’s because they hire the right people and to an extent get lucky with more correct decisions than wrong ones. We had to an extent the momentum under GJ , we weren’t a great team but it clicked , sometimes it’s as simple as that 

Edited March 20 by daored

[Sir Geoff]

4 minutes ago, daored said:

The problem is and has always been our owner always looks at other clubs and then wants to copy their blueprint. We’ve heard it all before and you can list the clubs , Swansea, Reading, Brighton, Brentford, now Luton (I’m sure I’ve missed numerous of others off). No doubt it Ipswich get promoted , they’ll say we need to do what Ipswich have  done - although to an extent we’re trying to copy the inexperienced head coach route. 
 

I’d just wish they’d draw up a philosophy and stick it to, ignore outside noise and what other clubs are and aren’t doing. Because we try to copy and take snippets we end up in a mess. How many times does this happen? It’s a culture from the top and probably why we’ve never moved forward (on the pitch). We’ve needed experienced football people in the club , making decisions and allowed the opportunity to make those decisions rightly or wrongly.

What our owner doesn’t see is that sometimes a club gets momentum and becomes a force , like Luton, sometimes it’s because they hire the right people and to an extent get lucky with more correct decisions than wrong ones. We had to an extent the momentum under GJ , we weren’t a great team but it clicked , sometimes it’s as simple as that 

What the Lansdowns fail to understand is that building momentum takes time. In the cases of Luton and Brentford 2/3 years.

We were on that trajectory and in my opinion 18 months from cracking into the play offs / top 6.

[One Team]

5 minutes ago, daored said:

The problem is and has always been our owner always looks at other clubs and then wants to copy their blueprint. We’ve heard it all before and you can list the clubs , Swansea, Reading, Brighton, Brentford, now Luton (I’m sure I’ve missed numerous of others off). No doubt it Ipswich get promoted , they’ll say we need to do what Ipswich have  done - although to an extent we’re trying to copy the inexperienced head coach route. 
 

I’d just wish they’d draw up a philosophy and stick it to, ignore outside noise and what other clubs are and aren’t doing. Because we try to copy and take snippets we end up in a mess. How many times does this happen? It’s a culture from the top and probably why we’ve never moved forward (on the pitch). We’ve needed experienced football people in the club , making decisions and allowed the opportunity to make those decisions rightly or wrongly.

What our owner doesn’t see is that sometimes a club gets momentum and becomes a force , like Luton, sometimes it’s because they hire the right people and to an extent get lucky with more correct decisions than wrong ones. We had to an extent the momentum under GJ , we weren’t a great team but it clicked , sometimes it’s as simple as that 

Great post!

This really annoys me as well. I don’t think there is a model you can copy and apply it to us. What is obvious from any successful club is having a close team, connected with the fans, normally gets you there; whatever the style of play or types of players.

What I also struggle with is Lansdown’s inability to reflect on what’s worked well in the past: it’s always been the above but also with a strong experienced manager at the helm (GJ, SC and to an emerging extent NP). LJ broadly did OK having access to a war chest, but didn’t have the success of the aforementioned. 

For me the only realistic way we will see the Premier League is to bring in a leader of that ilk and let them just get on with it. 

[steviestevieneville]

6 hours ago, Ian M said:

You know how you can prove to the doubters that you “know football”?

Appoint a competent / experienced CEO.

Appoint a competent / experienced DoF.

Appoint a competent / experienced Manager.

Let the 3 appointments above overhaul recruitment.

We already have a decent Academy.

Set a budget and let them do what they have built their reputations on without interference.

Good idea. Slight flaw in your plan though. The man who owns  the toy can’t help but want to play with it from time to time . 

[One Team]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

Good idea. Slight flaw in your plan though. The man who owns  the toy can’t help but want to play with it from time to time . 

Indeed, you are quite right. 

I’ve a signed photo on my office wall of Lansdown and GJ bouncing around in the Williams, Bradley Orr in view, celebrating promotion against Rotherham. He could’ve walked on water at that point in our eyes.

Poor management and coaching appointments, “it’s my club” and the Nige debacle later and it’s quite depressing where we are.

I said the same about Tinnion recently and it applies to Lansdown: “you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain”. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, One Team said:

Having listened to the show again I do wonder (if slightly tongue in cheek) if Piercy’s “fans sack managers” comment, endorsed by Owers, was a rallying cry! A “come on then City fans, if you want him gone say so” statement it you will. 

Knowing James I don’t think so, more that he thinks some fans (inc me) are being hasty.

[Phileas Fogg]

59 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Knowing James I don’t think so, more that he thinks some fans (inc me) are being hasty.

That’s the impression I got too. He came across as actually more forgiving than the general mood music amongst the fans.

Perhaps as he’s (presumably) not a fan - it’s easier for him to be objective.

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Perhaps as he’s (presumably) not a fan - it’s easier for him to be objective.

For me that's a prerequisite for a Journalist , not always easy .
With a mix of feeling for the Club, and pressure from the Club, it can get a little murky. I think JP is a breath of fresh air . 
 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

What the Lansdowns fail to understand is that building momentum takes time. In the cases of Luton and Brentford 2/3 years.

We were on that trajectory and in my opinion 18 months from cracking into the play offs / top 6.

100%. Unfortunately it was Jon Lansdown and a minority of vocal supporters who couldn’t see it and Steve allowed the ensuing calamity to occur because of it. Progress was slow but we were making progress and had the previous set up been given the investment that Manning or his replacement will get we would not only have moved forwards but achieved it spending less money overall (not having to pay settlements for a start).

Edited March 20 by Numero Uno

[Street red]

3 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Good idea. Slight flaw in your plan though. The man who owns  the toy can’t help but want to play with it from time to time . 

Basically it's his train set.

[bcfcnick]

Always very thoughtful analysis from James whether it be his press conference questions or his articles.  Quite an accomplishment in the clickbait media age.  I think JP would make a very good addition to the Radio Bristol sports team.  He strikes a difficult balance of asking interesting questions without alienating the recipient of the question. 

An insightful tweet as well after Nigel left:-  "Contrary to public perception, Nige was an absolute joy to deal with and just a good solid, honest bloke who I’ll genuinely miss speaking to. Think his legacy will be remembered far more fondly than more classically successful managers at City."

[Superjack]

8 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

What the Lansdowns fail to understand is that building momentum takes time. In the cases of Luton and Brentford 2/3 years.

We were on that trajectory and in my opinion 18 months from cracking into the play offs / top 6.

[Superjack]

8 hours ago, One Team said:

For me the only realistic way we will see the Premier League is to bring in a leader of that ilk and let them just get on with it. 

Yes. 

A new leader of the club. 

S.U.A.F.O.

[ciderwithtommy]

How many wins would manning need between now and the end of the season, with city playing well, to give him time and good grace with the fans? And then offset that against the likelihood of it happening. This crude formula tells me there is no chance he turns it around before the start of next season, at which point the toxicity will be off the scale. Worrying times

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, ciderwithtommy said:

How many wins would manning need between now and the end of the season, with city playing well, to give him time and good grace with the fans? And then offset that against the likelihood of it happening. This crude formula tells me there is no chance he turns it around before the start of next season, at which point the toxicity will be off the scale. Worrying times

I don't think he actually needs wins. 

He needs good, entertaining performances. 

So he's ****ed.

[petehinton]

8 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

What the Lansdowns fail to understand is that building momentum takes time. In the cases of Luton and Brentford 2/3 years.

We were on that trajectory and in my opinion 18 months from cracking into the play offs / top 6.

This is the bit I really struggle to comprehend that he doesn’t understand, or didn’t twig. 

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

What the Lansdowns fail to understand is that building momentum takes time. In the cases of Luton and Brentford 2/3 years.

We were on that trajectory and in my opinion 18 months from cracking into the play offs / top 6.

In both of their cases more like 10 years…but of course that was in Brentford’s case that was Lg1 under Rosler, through Warburton, through Smith to Frank.  Luton’s probably started with Mick Harford as manager…and he’s still there as Chief Recruitment Officer.

[Roe]

24 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

How many wins would manning need between now and the end of the season, with city playing well, to give him time and good grace with the fans? And then offset that against the likelihood of it happening. This crude formula tells me there is no chance he turns it around before the start of next season, at which point the toxicity will be off the scale. Worrying times

Maybe 3 or 4 wins and a couple of draws would of course ease the pressure a bit

A lot would also depend on the manner of wins as well. If they're one off wins similar to the Swansea performance he was so pleased with, then that will do little good for him

He's got a couple of weeks to reset things a bit, try to get a cup like performance out of the Leicester game then we really have to be beating Plymouth (particularly if we lose to Leicester as expected)

[1960maaan]

55 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

How many wins would manning need between now and the end of the season, with city playing well, to give him time and good grace with the fans? And then offset that against the likelihood of it happening. This crude formula tells me there is no chance he turns it around before the start of next season, at which point the toxicity will be off the scale. Worrying times

I think we all know the fans have no say in things. He has to win enough games to settle the nerves of the Lansdowns .

40 minutes ago, petehinton said:

This is the bit I really struggle to comprehend that he doesn’t understand, or didn’t twig. 

Progress was slow under NP , but it was there. The next step would have been release some of the Scott money to add a bit of quality to the squad, a bit of depth . I think we could have pushed on .

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In both of their cases more like 10 years…but of course that was in Brentford’s case that was Lg1 under Rosler, through Warburton, through Smith to Frank.  Luton’s probably started with Mick Harford as manager…and he’s still there as Chief Recruitment Officer.

I know they had started some of the process earlier , but that sacking of Warburton seemed to be the chrysalis .
Yeah they started talking about moneyball , but that seemed the mad moment that seemed to focus their strategy ,and it was a steady up trend from then.
I thought they were mad to dump him, shows I know nothing. 

[Glen hump]

9 hours ago, One Team said:

Great post!

This really annoys me as well. I don’t think there is a model you can copy and apply it to us. What is obvious from any successful club is having a close team, connected with the fans, normally gets you there; whatever the style of play or types of players.

What I also struggle with is Lansdown’s inability to reflect on what’s worked well in the past: it’s always been the above but also with a strong experienced manager at the helm (GJ, SC and to an emerging extent NP). LJ broadly did OK having access to a war chest, but didn’t have the success of the aforementioned. 

For me the only realistic way we will see the Premier League is to bring in a leader of that ilk and let them just get on with it. 

That Nigel Pearson would be ideal for us ‘ he’s got a track record of steadily building clubs up and getting promoted from the championship 

[W-S-M Seagull]

12 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

100%. Unfortunately it was Jon Lansdown and a minority of vocal supporters who couldn’t see it and Steve allowed the ensuing calamity to occur because of it. Progress was slow but we were making progress and had the previous set up been given the investment that Manning or his replacement will get we would not only have moved forwards but achieved it spending less money overall (not having to pay settlements for a start).

These minority vocal supporters wanted this type of head coach that draws silly arrows on the training pitch. 

They wanted a 'football manager' head coach. The thought by having anAI head coach we'd achieve success simply by having better tactics blah blah blah.

Now they've got that there is a sudden realisation by them that real life football isn't a computer game. 

It's hilarious to see those people that were so invested in Nige out and Manning in suddenly turn on Manning too. 

This is their guy, they need to own that! 

[eardun]

57 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

These minority vocal supporters wanted this type of head coach that draws silly arrows on the training pitch. 

They wanted a 'football manager' head coach. The thought by having anAI head coach we'd achieve success simply by having better tactics blah blah blah.

Now they've got that there is a sudden realisation by them that real life football isn't a computer game. 

It's hilarious to see those people that were so invested in Nige out and Manning in suddenly turn on Manning too. 

This is their guy, they need to own that! 

Trouble is I think there is a certain minority who will never be happy with any manager/head coach unless we are winning easily every week. So they won’t like the next guy either! 

[formerly known as ivan]

16 hours ago, daored said:

The problem is and has always been our owner always looks at other clubs and then wants to copy their blueprint. We’ve heard it all before and you can list the clubs , Swansea, Reading, Brighton, Brentford, now Luton (I’m sure I’ve missed numerous of others off). No doubt it Ipswich get promoted , they’ll say we need to do what Ipswich have  done - although to an extent we’re trying to copy the inexperienced head coach route. 
 

I’d just wish they’d draw up a philosophy and stick it to, ignore outside noise and what other clubs are and aren’t doing. Because we try to copy and take snippets we end up in a mess. How many times does this happen? It’s a culture from the top and probably why we’ve never moved forward (on the pitch). We’ve needed experienced football people in the club , making decisions and allowed the opportunity to make those decisions rightly or wrongly.

What our owner doesn’t see is that sometimes a club gets momentum and becomes a force , like Luton, sometimes it’s because they hire the right people and to an extent get lucky with more correct decisions than wrong ones. We had to an extent the momentum under GJ , we weren’t a great team but it clicked , sometimes it’s as simple as that 

The trouble with the Ipswich blueprint is a certain Mark Ashton!

Again, questions need to be asked as to how he is driving the Ipswich charge, yet was nearly leading us to financial ruin.

[redsquirrel]

7 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

The trouble with the Ipswich blueprint is a certain Mark Ashton!

Again, questions need to be asked as to how he is driving the Ipswich charge, yet was nearly leading us to financial ruin.

maybe he is working for ipswich town now and not mark ashton.  2 totally different businesses. over there its not all about him,'i did this,i did that'  every week.

[Shauntaylor85]

14 hours ago, Glen hump said:

That Nigel Pearson would be ideal for us ‘ he’s got a track record of steadily building clubs up and getting promoted from the championship 

The fact that City are a mid/lower table makes it crazy that they thought Nige was underdelivering, especially with the lack of funds for majority of his tenure. They should have kept faith, it wasn’t bad, it was decimated by injuries. Plymouth, Swansea, even Stoke at home despite the result were excellent performances and dare I say entertaining. 

[Crimson Crayola]

22 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

For me that's a prerequisite for a Journalist , not always easy .
With a mix of feeling for the Club, and pressure from the Club, it can get a little murky. I think JP is a breath of fresh air . 
 

Completely agree. Always asks well thought out questions in interviews and seems very knowledgeable. Compared to some other local journalists we've had, he's great.

[Crimson Crayola]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

These minority vocal supporters wanted this type of head coach that draws silly arrows on the training pitch. 

They wanted a 'football manager' head coach. The thought by having anAI head coach we'd achieve success simply by having better tactics blah blah blah.

Now they've got that there is a sudden realisation by them that real life football isn't a computer game. 

It's hilarious to see those people that were so invested in Nige out and Manning in suddenly turn on Manning too. 

This is their guy, they need to own that! 

As someone who was (mistakenly) mildly optimistic about Manning when appointed You've missed two points:

1. In October nobody was 'invested in Nige out' (Okay maybe the board, but certainly not swathes of fans). Nige was doing okay with what he had. That's why people were confused.

2. Fans were miss-sold what manning would bring to the club and his style of play.

Its rightly taken a while to form an opinion on manning. Just because you sit at the extreme end of the debate doesn't mean everyone is so inclined.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Crimson Crayola said:

As someone who was (mistakenly) mildly optimistic about Manning when appointed You've missed two points:

1. In October nobody was 'invested in Nige out' (Okay maybe the board, but certainly not swathes of fans). Nige was doing okay with what he had. That's why people were confused.

2. Fans were miss-sold what manning would bring to the club and his style of play.

Its rightly taken a while to form an opinion on manning. Just because you sit at the extreme end of the debate doesn't mean everyone is so inclined.

I don't think my post was aimed at you. More so the likes of Ian Gay. Those that were always Nige out. Hence why I said "vocal minority" 

For some, they considered Manning their dream manager. 

The warnings were there that LM does not play a brand a football that suits us. It was some blind faith to hope that he could adapt. 

The lesson learned here is, do not appoint someone that was sacked by MK less than a year ago previously. 

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

maybe he is working for ipswich town now and not mark ashton.  2 totally different businesses. over there its not all about him,'i did this,i did that'  every week.

I see Ipswich and Norwich as very similar clubs to Bristol City. None of us are in heavy industrial areas like a Blackburn, Sunderland, Sheffield Wed / Utd. But as far as football is concerned that is where the similarities end.

For the last sixty/seventy years, and that while the persons have changed, we have bumbled along in second and third tiers, four years excepted in Div One and two in Div Four. While in that time Ipswich and Norwich have won trophies and played in European Cups, Ipswich even winning First Division. Managers at both clubs who were allowed funds to manage success. Ipswich even helped in the careers of two England managers. They don't spend massive money on transfer fees but always seem to have better quality than City.

So how did it take so long for Lansdown to get us out of Div3 until he got GJ. Because he hasn't got the football brain to pick decent managers. And when by accident he does get a Cottrell and a Pearson, he can't bully them into his non football brain.

That's why we are more likely to end up in League One/Two than Premier.

[REDOXO]

12 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

These minority vocal supporters wanted this type of head coach that draws silly arrows on the training pitch. 

They wanted a 'football manager' head coach. The thought by having anAI head coach we'd achieve success simply by having better tactics blah blah blah.

Now they've got that there is a sudden realisation by them that real life football isn't a computer game. 

It's hilarious to see those people that were so invested in Nige out and Manning in suddenly turn on Manning too. 

This is their guy, they need to own that! 

We certainly do have an anal head coach!