South Stand

[Ashtongreight]

12 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

No, I’m really not saying that but congratulations for misreading.

What I’m saying is that a very small proportion of children’s season tickets are used by adults. The club know this. As long as the ground is not sold out they accept it. Because they do get some residual income.

Nobody is saying that we should all buy U12 season tickets. Because a) it’s wrong morally and b) at one point the proportion would be too high and the club would do something.

In base business terms a bum on a seat, irrespective of price, is better than an empty seat. And there are two basic truths there:

- You have opportunity to get some income from that person

- You have no guarantee that the person would attend at full price 

Again, it’s not right, I don’t like it. But commercially x% of something is better than x% of nothing.

Your argument is predicated on the income being available if everyone paid full price and didn’t swing the lead. From a commercial basis, it’s totally naive.

I guess in a nut shell you’re saying as long as the numbers doing it are relatively low, whilst not ideal,  the club put up with it. If too many started to do it that would change. 
 

it’s still wrong though, and maybe the club should put measures in place to stop it, if not for financial reasons, then in order to protect the honest fans who don’t cheat the system. 

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ashton Gate may not be sold out, but the South Stand is. Thats the issue here. 

Many will be willing to pay 385 for a SS season ticket but not willing to pay the 460-675 for a season ticket elsewhere. 

Same thing with potd prices.

The issue is they can't buy them because of the large amount of u12s tickets that are purchased but not used/used by adults. 

If the club suddenly got rid of all u12s tickets in the SS (not suggesting that) then the SS would still sell out so there is a direct loss of income because of the freeloaders and then possibly buying a few beers doesn't make up for that loss income. 

But…again..you’re working on an assumption which is different to the clubs assumption. You believe the south stand would sell out if the club got rid of U12 season tickets.  The club don’t believe that (or don’t believe the admin costs to manage it outweigh the lost income). It’s a really simplistic argument, and I think the clubs stance (take the lost potential income but take the actual income which may be less) is the right one commercially- if not morally - here.

[Back of the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, Ashtongreight said:

I guess in a nut shell you’re saying as long as the numbers doing it are relatively low, whilst not ideal,  the club put up with it. If too many started to do it that would change. 
 

it’s still wrong though, and maybe the club should put measures in place to stop it, if not for financial reasons, then in order to protect the honest fans who don’t cheat the system. 

I do hope those that cheat the system don’t have the audacity to complain about lack of signings or anything financially related to the club.

That would be extremely hypocritical !

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Ashtongreight said:

I guess in a nut shell you’re saying as long as the numbers doing it are relatively low, whilst not ideal,  the club put up with it. If too many started to do it that would change. 
 

it’s still wrong though, and maybe the club should put measures in place to stop it, if not for financial reasons, then in order to protect the honest fans who don’t cheat the system. 

Yeah, it’s a commercial as opposed to a moral argument.

In any industry, on a basic risk management aspect though, if the cost of controlling the risk exceeds the potential loss from the risk you accept the risk. Thats all the club are doing here so until the financials move, don’t expect change. 

[Shauntaylor85]

I had a Saints mate attend in away end, his view on Ashton Gate was great facilities around the ground, the Lansdown is an impressive stand, but the Atyeo was terrible, concourse tight and facilities poor, felt like the Dell! We do need to find a solution to the Atyeo, it is such a terrible stand which ruins the stadium look and feel. Plus it gives a massive advantage to away fans with the noise they can generate, he was surprised how quiet Ashton Gate was until we scored. 

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

I had a Saints mate attend in away end, his view on Ashton Gate was great facilities around the ground, the Lansdown is an impressive stand, but the Atyeo was terrible, concourse tight and facilities poor, felt like the Dell! We do need to find a solution to the Atyeo, it is such a terrible stand which ruins the stadium look and feel. Plus it gives a massive advantage to away fans with the noise they can generate, he was surprised how quiet Ashton Gate was until we scored. 

A Watford supporting colleague of mine said the same.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

I had a Saints mate attend in away end, his view on Ashton Gate was great facilities around the ground, the Lansdown is an impressive stand, but the Atyeo was terrible, concourse tight and facilities poor, felt like the Dell! We do need to find a solution to the Atyeo, it is such a terrible stand which ruins the stadium look and feel. Plus it gives a massive advantage to away fans with the noise they can generate, he was surprised how quiet Ashton Gate was until we scored. 

Cutting away allocation as low as possible and steering away fans as far back and to the corners as possible would be a good short-term fix.

Edited February 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[A Horse With No Name]

42 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

So in the summer we should all just not renew and instead buy u12 season tickets instead, pay a tenner to upgrade to an adults shirt and the club will be happy with me attending 23 games for basically nothing as long as we buy some beers? 

Sorry but I don't agree with your analysis. The South stand is sold out.

Whilst the people getting in for free may not buy a season ticket or buy a potd ticket in the SS, many others would but are currently unable to due to the SS being 'sold out' so there is a direct loss of income that a freeloader isn't going to be making up for by buying a few beers. 

You're making the assumption that if that seat was sold as an adult season ticket then that adult STH wouldn't buy food or drinks too. You're also making an assumption that the freeloader is buying food and drinks. 

That freeloader would need to spend over 20 quid a game to make up for the lost season ticket money and then however much on top of that which an adult season ticket holder would spend. 

A freeloader isn't spending that kind of money on food and drink I'll tell you that now!

It's nonsense to suggest the club would be happy to lose 400 quid in season ticket money because someone may buy a few beers. 

Dont agree, and I know the club dont, or certainly didnt a few years ago. Think about it simply. If they were to open up a gate and let 50 people in who normally wouldnt attend for whatever reason, it costs the club nothing. Zero. How much will those 50 people spend at the kiosks? All profit. Remember that kids seat is going to be empty anyway, so no spend there. So its in the clubs interest for a beer guzzling adult to fill it.

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

But…again..you’re working on an assumption which is different to the clubs assumption. You believe the south stand would sell out if the club got rid of U12 season tickets.  The club don’t believe that (or don’t believe the admin costs to manage it outweigh the lost income). It’s a really simplistic argument, and I think the clubs stance (take the lost potential income but take the actual income which may be less) is the right one commercially- if not morally - here.

I'm not assuming, its as close you can get to a fact that with 22-25k attendances that the South stand would sell out. 

Telling stewards to check the colours of the lights on the turnstiles doesn't add admin costs. 

You're the one that's using assumption to form your argument. You're assuming that a freeloader is going to come to Ashton Gate and spend money. I'd say that's a reach. 

Let's say there are 500 u12 tickets either not being used or being used by adults, that's around 200k in lost season ticket revenue. Not insignificant. 

Those freeloaders would need to buy over 40000 pints just to make up for the lost season ticket income and probably a lot more than that when you consider the profit margins ain't great on beer. 

 

[Back of the Dolman]

5 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Dont agree, and I know the club dont, or certainly didnt a few years ago. Think about it simply. If they were to open up a gate and let 50 people in who normally wouldnt attend for whatever reason, it costs the club nothing. Zero. How much will those 50 people spend at the kiosks? All profit. Remember that kids seat is going to be empty anyway, so no spend there. So its in the clubs interest for a beer guzzling adult to fill it.

I wonder what percentage of those 50 people would actually spend anything in the ground though ?

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Dont agree, and I know the club dont, or certainly didnt a few years ago. Think about it simply. If they were to open up a gate and let 50 people in who normally wouldnt attend for whatever reason, it costs the club nothing. Zero. How much will those 50 people spend at the kiosks? All profit. Remember that kids seat is going to be empty anyway, so no spend there. So its in the clubs interest for a beer guzzling adult to fill it.

The point I'm making is that the SS would sell out even without the u12s tickets.

Whilst they may make a few quid profit on a freeloader buying a few beers and some food they are losing big amounts because these seats would overwise be sold as adult season tickets. 

[Betty Swallocks]

3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

The photos from this week make me wonder if the problem is less unused child season tickets and more people moving to the Lansdown when there’s plenty of space in there.

Yes, it was half term, but most people don’t go away in February - and I would have expected the fact that kids weren’t at school the next day to mean more would have attended than usual.

It’s not just the Lansdown where people move to, there’s a lot of young un’s who get into S82 from elsewhere in the ground. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Betty Swallocks said:

It’s not just the Lansdown where people move to, there’s a lot of young un’s who get into S82 from elsewhere in the ground. 

Reckon E34 can be a popular spot, remember last season there were creative attempts to get in there.

Edited February 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

I wonder what percentage of those 50 people would actually spend anything in the ground though ?

If someone is chancing their luck using a child's ticket, I'd suggest they are the type of person who probably isn't going to be spending much if any money at Ashton Gate. 

[Swede]

I'm a season ticket holder & I now live outside of Bristol so tend to miss the midweek games especially the 8pm kick offs with work commitments the following day. Having spent many years when I lived there navigating the chaotic traffic conditions in Bristol, such as the Cattle Market Road access into the City being closed off, its just a complete ball ache getting out of Bristol for a night match.

I chose to support the club by buying my season ticket knowing that I would miss quite a few midweek matches. It's my choice.

I know others who use the park and ride services which can be just as chaotic especially the closer you get to kick off the buses inevitably use the same council congested roads.

It always makes me laugh when you can get 60,000 fans out of the London Stadium quicker & with the minimum of fuss than the 24,000 in Bristol. The city is so backward thinking when it comes to public transport. The clue is the successful underground/overland train.

Make it reliable so people don't have to think about it and it will get used, simple.

 

[Back of the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

If someone is chancing their luck using a child's ticket, I'd suggest they are the type of person who probably isn't going to be spending much if any money at Ashton Gate. 

That was the point I was making.

[Silvio Dante]

8 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not assuming, its as close you can get to a fact that with 22-25k attendances that the South stand would sell out. 

Telling stewards to check the colours of the lights on the turnstiles doesn't add admin costs. 

You're the one that's using assumption to form your argument. You're assuming that a freeloader is going to come to Ashton Gate and spend money. I'd say that's a reach. 

Let's say there are 500 u12 tickets either not being used or being used by adults, that's around 200k in lost season ticket revenue. Not insignificant. 

Those freeloaders would need to buy over 40000 pints just to make up for the lost season ticket income and probably a lot more than that when you consider the profit margins ain't great on beer. 

 

Whatever mate. Your basic flaw is assuming that if you got rid of U12 season tickets, the south stand would sell out. The club have a different view and prefer to take actual over hypothetical income (With a possibility for ancillary income which doesn’t make up the total hypothetical income from a sold out south stand). I’d probably trust them on this one as you are just guessing. And you’re missing that it isn’t just the U12 season tickets you need to make up in the SS but people who go with them.

They’ve assessed the potential lost income. They’ve decided it’s not material. If you want to show your workings, approach the club to prove they’re wrong.

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, Swede said:

I'm a season ticket holder & I now live outside of Bristol so tend to miss the midweek games especially the 8pm kick offs with work commitments the following day. Having spent many years when I lived there navigating the chaotic traffic conditions in Bristol, such as the Cattle Market Road access into the City being closed off, its just a complete ball ache getting out of Bristol for a night match.

I chose to support the club by buying my season ticket knowing that I would miss quite a few midweek matches. It's my choice.

I know others who use the park and ride services which can be just as chaotic especially the closer you get to kick off the buses inevitably use the same council congested roads.

It always makes me laugh when you can get 60,000 fans out of the London Stadium quicker & with the minimum of fuss than the 24,000 in Bristol. The city is so backward thinking when it comes to public transport. The clue is the successful underground/overland train.

Make it reliable so people don't have to think about it and it will get used, simple.

 

Having been to the London Stadium on numerous occasions it certainly doesn’t clear without fuss, initially on foot with the stop/go signs and then traffic wise.

 

[Kibs]

It’s abit shit that members/POTD can rarely get a couple seats together in the south stand because it’s “sold out”……and then you get to your seat in the dolman/Lansdown and see that there are hundreds empty.

It looks crap too and it surely can’t help the atmosphere. 

I hope they either bin off the U12 offer for that stand or at least set the price so that it’s not palatable to buy the extra seat and have it empty half of the time.

[NcnsBcfc]

3 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Neil, do you take the short route to/from the ground, or do you walk around the metro (which is only about 5mins longer BTW).

I've noticed the pavement (what there is of it) has been particularly muddy of late.

The 3/4 of us always walk down to the gate and back from the park and ride.

A wee but muddy of late, but nothing too bad.

[NcnsBcfc]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

But…again..you’re working on an assumption which is different to the clubs assumption. You believe the south stand would sell out if the club got rid of U12 season tickets.  The club don’t believe that (or don’t believe the admin costs to manage it outweigh the lost income). It’s a really simplistic argument, and I think the clubs stance (take the lost potential income but take the actual income which may be less) is the right one commercially- if not morally - here.

I suppose this is a difficult balancing act.

We've got 3 x STs in E32 and 1 x E28. If I was looking to pay as you go to games and forced to pay to go into E32 (at £39 per game) and then looked over at the "sold out" SS at £27 per game I would be a bit peeved. 

As I mentioned in previous posts, the £ per seat will come into.the equation at some stage. Obviously theatres don't do kids tickets for that same reason. The Gas are going down that same route as well (will have to see how that pans out for them of course).

I can see an obvious bump up in price for under 12's and under 19s in the SS to the same level as the Dolman coming. With a caveat of keeping the price in the upper lansdown lower for under 12s. Thus people will have a choice and it won't impact in the POTD person who wants to buy a ticket as they can't buy in the kids area without a child ticket.

In that way, either the club makes more money from the SS seat or it frees it up for a POTD punter.

What this season has shown is that more and more people are wanting to come and see us play (which is a great thing of course). But I think the pragmatic element that @Silvio Dante describes will in time start to fall by the wayside.

[Mad Cyril]

13 hours ago, mattjb said:

 The stewards on the steps going up into each section could do random ticket checking but even that might not stop it

Can you imagine the melt down on here if someone is asked to show their ticket more than once?

One poster on here is still in counselling after 2 encounters with a drugs dog.

[Silvio Dante]

7 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I suppose this is a difficult balancing act.

We've got 3 x STs in E32 and 1 x E28. If I was looking to pay as you go to games and forced to pay to go into E32 (at £39 per game) and then looked over at the "sold out" SS at £27 per game I would be a bit peeved. 

As I mentioned in previous posts, the £ per seat will come into.the equation at some stage. Obviously theatres don't do kids tickets for that same reason. The Gas are going down that same route as well (will have to see how that pans out for them of course).

I can see an obvious bump up in price for under 12's and under 19s in the SS to the same level as the Dolman coming. With a caveat of keeping the price in the upper lansdown lower for under 12s. Thus people will have a choice and it won't impact in the POTD person who wants to buy a ticket as they can't buy in the kids area without a child ticket.

In that way, either the club makes more money from the SS seat or it frees it up for a POTD punter.

What this season has shown is that more and more people are wanting to come and see us play (which is a great thing of course). But I think the pragmatic element that @Silvio Dante describes will in time start to fall by the wayside.

Yep - it’s basic economics. If the club think we’ve reached a point where they can sell the seat for x then they’ll take action. If they don’t think that applies, then the status quo applies.

The big deal here is that as long as there are significant seats available elsewhere (and at a higher price) the clubs motivation to lose the bum on seat, no matter what they’re paying, will be reduced (and that applies whether they turn up or not, and whether an adult uses a child seat or not)

The decision for the club is definitely closer than it was in view of increased attendance - but I’d reiterate we’re miles away from “use it or lose it” or seat resales. Those will come if we’re at 90-95% of tickets sold on a regular basis.

NB - I certainly am expecting an increase in my ST cost come what may!

[GrahamC]

9 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

I had a Saints mate attend in away end, his view on Ashton Gate was great facilities around the ground, the Lansdown is an impressive stand, but the Atyeo was terrible, concourse tight and facilities poor, felt like the Dell! We do need to find a solution to the Atyeo, it is such a terrible stand which ruins the stadium look and feel. Plus it gives a massive advantage to away fans with the noise they can generate, he was surprised how quiet Ashton Gate was until we scored. 

Why?

Opposition fans use it once a season.

Despite a lot of fantasy stuff on here about the club buying houses at £600k a pop from people with absolutely no reason to sell, we are hamstrung on that particular side of the stadium.

That’s why the refurbishment concentrated on demolishing the Williams & East End, with a clever bit of work done on the Dolman.

There might be some very minor stuff we could do, but I doubt very much even demolishing the thing & creating a replacement that would only be able to occupy a very similar footprint is going to make sufficient difference to justify what would of course be entirely Steve Lansdown’s expenditure.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

14 hours ago, mattjb said:

I think this goes on a lot more than people realise. People buy the cheapest tickets then all they have to do is look on the ticketing app to see where the seats are in the landsdown that haven’t been sold just before they go in. Not rocket science is it. The stewards on the steps going up into each section could do random ticket checking but even that might not stop it

But then there be lots of complaints of ticket checking once in the ground 

[IAmNick]

22 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

But then there be lots of complaints of ticket checking once in the ground 

There would I'm sure.

I sit in the central Lansdown just in front of the posh seats and every game, 5 minutes or so into each half, there's a steady influx of people without tickets wandering up, standing around, and trying to find seats - usually in the more expensive bit.

I don't actually care about them sitting there too much, but it's a pain in the arse with them moving around, getting in the way, sometimes then getting kicked out and doing it all in reverse etc. while I'm trying to watch the game.

[elhombrecito]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ashton Gate may not be sold out, but the South Stand is. Thats the issue here. 

Many will be willing to pay 385 for a SS season ticket but not willing to pay the 460-675 for a season ticket elsewhere. 

Same thing with potd prices.

The issue is they can't buy them because of the large amount of u12s tickets that are purchased but not used/used by adults. 

If the club suddenly got rid of all u12s tickets in the SS (not suggesting that) then the SS would still sell out so there is a direct loss of income because of the freeloaders and then possibly buying a few beers doesn't make up for that loss income. 

 

Just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true.

I suspect that the main issue here is people buying cheap (adult) SS season tickets and simply going to sit in the more expensive seats. 

I'd argue that if the issue was simply people buying U12 season tickets and not using them, the free seats would be odd ones scattered around rather than sections of seats together. 

[NOTBLUE]

Now I don’t know how feasible it would be,but maybe convert one turnstile at each entrance to accept child tickets only,if there is an accompanying adult they could use the turnstile next to said turnstile.As I said probably not feasible,and it could get a bit messy.

[Redland]

I am abroad three or four months of the year and therefore I am unable to go to a lot of matches. However I always buy a season ticket (in the south stand). This does not make economic sense and it would be cheaper for me to pay on a match by match basis for the games that I can actually attend. However, by buying the season-ticket I feel I am supporting the club financially (in a very small way) and also spiritually. Yes, my seat is  empty for many matches but surely it is better for the club to have sold the season ticket. We rarely reach our 27,000 capacity so it is not as if me buying a season ticket is preventing others from going to the match.

[pillred]

57 minutes ago, Redland said:

I am abroad three or four months of the year and therefore I am unable to go to a lot of matches. However I always buy a season ticket (in the south stand). This does not make economic sense and it would be cheaper for me to pay on a match by match basis for the games that I can actually attend. However, by buying the season-ticket I feel I am supporting the club financially (in a very small way) and also spiritually. Yes, my seat is  empty for many matches but surely it is better for the club to have sold the season ticket. We rarely reach our 27,000 capacity so it is not as if me buying a season ticket is preventing others from going to the match.

I definitely think buying a membership and getting a fiver off the games you do attend would be better for you, I suppose there would then be a chance that your seat that was not used all the time could then be sold to someone else and the club might benefit with it being sold for pay on the day prices.