Have the players given up on this season or LM

[BrizzleRed]

22 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

My disenchantment with the club goes back a long way now to the day they sacked Steve Cotterill.

I was reinvigorated by the unexpected and excellent appointment of another great character and leader in NP, then just as the heavy lifting has been done to correct their horrendous errors of the past, and we could look forward with some degree of optimism and excitement, they boot him out too.

If the aim was to completely deflate and piss off fans like me they could hardly have done a better job.

 

My feelings exactly  

I’m resigned to the fact that SL and the fans want totally different things and as it’s ‘his club’, I’m not expecting us to get what we want while he’s the owner.

That’s why I want him gone.  This is a pale shadow of the club it used to be and he can take a lot of the blame for that.  It takes far more than a shiny stadium to make something to be proud of and to be totally honest, this club just feels dull and bland now.

If he just listened to his ‘customers’ occasionally, that would help, but that really doesn’t seem to be in his nature.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yep this has always bothered me. 

His first thought when he came in here was "let's make us defensively sound" when we were already defensively sound. It never made much sense and still doesn't. 

Our problem wasn't and isn't conceding goals. The problem is scoring them!

It was either a lack of home work from him and not knowing what he had in the building or he wanted us to be defensively sounder because he feared for his own record. If its that, I don't like that. 

Before he came in here, we had players throwing their bodies on the line. At times that has happened for him but whats worrying is that with all this extra defensive training, we do appear to have lost that protect the goal instinct.

As that mentality was here before he came in, I don't like him blaming the players mentality because in my opinion that's down to him.  

And @MarcusX and @LondonBristolian

I will give him the benefit of the doubt, because it’s possible his fundamentals might be driven off of the back the defensive set up.

We know he doesn’t see formations like we do and in some respects he’s mentioned that he only really sees formations in our out of possession shape.  So you could give him some slack, that he needed to get those out of possession basics in place first.

But of course our observation was there wasn’t a lot wrong with our defence, nor did we “shape-up” much differently in our press/block to the 424 we are seeing now.  The only difference is the intensity (less) and triggers (efficient).

So, you’d hope that work was done a while ago.  I accept he said that that they had to go back and revisit / reinforce some bits, but I’d be expecting some of the forward / attacking development to be coming through.  We saw change in the opening half a dozen games to suggest they’d done some work.  So it does feel a little bit of revisionism!

[Slack Bladder]

Gotta be honest. I've rather given up on this season. 

This not getting too down after a loss and not too high after a win, doesn't go with being a fan of a football club. Emotion is such a large part of it. Take the emotion out and you don't really have a lot left.

They'll be wanting us to renew our season tickets soon, so I hope I can see a modicum of excitement on the horizon before I'm asked to part with my cash. 

 

[BrizzleRed]

36 minutes ago, Slack Bladder said:

Gotta be honest. I've rather given up on this season. 

This not getting too down after a loss and not too high after a win, doesn't go with being a fan of a football club. Emotion is such a large part of it. Take the emotion out and you don't really have a lot left.

They'll be wanting us to renew our season tickets soon, so I hope I can see a modicum of excitement on the horizon before I'm asked to part with my cash. 

 

Totally this.  

Football used to be completely about emotion, but when you take that away, it’s more like a cardboard cutout, rather than the real thing.

I’ve trained myself to avoid getting too emotional about this club to avoid disappointment, but I’m gradually approaching a point shere I don’t give a shit any more.   

At least low expectations avoid disappointment, though it certainly doesn’t inspire you to buy a seadon ticket.

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, Slack Bladder said:

This not getting too down after a loss and not too high after a win, doesn't go with being a fan of a football club. Emotion is such a large part of it. Take the emotion out and you don't really have a lot left.

 

[Tim Monaghan]

On 26/02/2024 at 19:36, sh1t_ref_again said:

Not wanting to repeat the other let's sack everyone threads, watching the last couple of games I have started to wonder if we have trouble within the camp between the players, or perhaps maybe a bit of player power going on.

Not sure if anyone noticed Skyes at the end of the QPR game, stood for several minutes, hands on hips looking really pissed off, in the corner of the South / lansdown stand whilst the other players clapped the fans, then when Knight approached he just walked straight past without any acknowledgement.

Cam (1 of my favourite players) at Sheffield, I have never seen him put in so little effort to get back at his man and was a big hand in the 2 goals. May be down to being not fit to play, but looked like not wanting to put in the effort?

When Manning's name was touted, my concern was his lack of doing anything in the game as a player or manager, when it starts to go wrong do the players retain the faith of what he is saying, in particular if senior players are not behind it. The early days, players seem to be enjoying the training but not sure if that still the case.

Perhaps uncertainty over some players contracts and worried about getting injured

Or maybe just reading to much into things off the back of a couple of bad results, guess having a derby will show who is up for it.

There are a lot of assumptions here, aren’t there, mixed in with a dollop of complete fantasy. Professional footballers don’t just give up, especially when you’re being watched by 23,000 people. You don’t work your whole entire life to become a footballer and then think, “sod it, I can’t be arsed today.” It’s a load of nonsense. Maybe you can say that about a handful of players over time (e.g., Tomlin), but 99% of professional athletes are winners and are playing for their careers every time they step onto the pitch.

Where were these posts a few weeks back when we beat Southampton and Boro? The team has apparently gone into meltdown when only a few weeks ago, we were flying high. We’ve been in one of the highest positions we’ve been in for years. Would we be having these posts if we’d lost against Southampton and Boro and won against Wednesday and QPR? We've all gone insane with xG here, stats there. Lets just put everything in a great chuff off spreadsheet and play the league that way.  Actually sick of it. We aren't doing that badly!! The last two games, absolute dog mess, but its like everything else that's been good now doesn't exist, and now we've got a made-up internal rift. Personally I’d be worried if players didn’t have their hands on their hips and looked pissed off after losing a game. I was fuming after every game that I lost. But that could mean anything.

2015–16 Champ 18th   2016–17 Champ 17th   2017–18 Champ 11th   2018–19 Champ 8th   2019–20 Champ 12th   2020–21 Champ 19th   2021–22 Champ 17th   2022–23 Champ 14th

Above is our Championship finishes since 2015. We currently sit 4 points (classing +7 goal difference as a point) off of 10th. I know its not where we want to be, although a recent forum poll suggested that the fans would be happy with it.  A 10th place finish would show some good progress heading into the summer, so I'm not sure why everyone is acting like we're on the verge of relegation, it confuses me so much. 

 

[TDarwall]

4 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said:

There are a lot of assumptions here, aren’t there, mixed in with a dollop of complete fantasy. Professional footballers don’t just give up, especially when you’re being watched by 23,000 people. You don’t work your whole entire life to become a footballer and then think, “sod it, I can’t be arsed today.” It’s a load of nonsense. Maybe you can say that about a handful of players over time (e.g., Tomlin), but 99% of professional athletes are winners and are playing for their careers every time they step onto the pitch.

Where were these posts a few weeks back when we beat Southampton and Boro? The team has apparently gone into meltdown when only a few weeks ago, we were flying high. We’ve been in one of the highest positions we’ve been in for years. Would we be having these posts if we’d lost against Southampton and Boro and won against Wednesday and QPR? We've all gone insane with xG here, stats there. Lets just put everything in a great chuff off spreadsheet and play the league that way.  Actually sick of it. We aren't doing that badly!! The last two games, absolute dog mess, but its like everything else that's been good now doesn't exist, and now we've got a made-up internal rift. Personally I’d be worried if players didn’t have their hands on their hips and looked pissed off after losing a game. I was fuming after every game that I lost. But that could mean anything.

2015–16 Champ 18th   2016–17 Champ 17th   2017–18 Champ 11th   2018–19 Champ 8th   2019–20 Champ 12th   2020–21 Champ 19th   2021–22 Champ 17th   2022–23 Champ 14th

Above is our Championship finishes since 2015. We currently sit 4 points (classing +7 goal difference as a point) off of 10th. I know its not where we want to be, although a recent forum poll suggested that the fans would be happy with it.  A 10th place finish would show some good progress heading into the summer, so I'm not sure why everyone is acting like we're on the verge of relegation, it confuses me so much. 

 

I think the issue (with most communication on line) is that the extremists (at both ends) shout louder than the moderates.  You are right, in 2 games we've gone from "best we've played in years" & "top 6 is in our own hands" to "he's lost the dressing room" & "we might go relegated".

The truth is as ever far more dull, top 6 was never in our own hands & the chances of relegation are slimmer than slim shady on the slim fast diet. 

 

 

 

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

6 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said:

There are a lot of assumptions here, aren’t there, mixed in with a dollop of complete fantasy. Professional footballers don’t just give up, especially when you’re being watched by 23,000 people. You don’t work your whole entire life to become a footballer and then think, “sod it, I can’t be arsed today.” It’s a load of nonsense. Maybe you can say that about a handful of players over time (e.g., Tomlin), but 99% of professional athletes are winners and are playing for their careers every time they step onto the pitch.

Where were these posts a few weeks back when we beat Southampton and Boro? The team has apparently gone into meltdown when only a few weeks ago, we were flying high. We’ve been in one of the highest positions we’ve been in for years. Would we be having these posts if we’d lost against Southampton and Boro and won against Wednesday and QPR? We've all gone insane with xG here, stats there. Lets just put everything in a great chuff off spreadsheet and play the league that way.  Actually sick of it. We aren't doing that badly!! The last two games, absolute dog mess, but its like everything else that's been good now doesn't exist, and now we've got a made-up internal rift. Personally I’d be worried if players didn’t have their hands on their hips and looked pissed off after losing a game. I was fuming after every game that I lost. But that could mean anything.

2015–16 Champ 18th   2016–17 Champ 17th   2017–18 Champ 11th   2018–19 Champ 8th   2019–20 Champ 12th   2020–21 Champ 19th   2021–22 Champ 17th   2022–23 Champ 14th

Above is our Championship finishes since 2015. We currently sit 4 points (classing +7 goal difference as a point) off of 10th. I know its not where we want to be, although a recent forum poll suggested that the fans would be happy with it.  A 10th place finish would show some good progress heading into the summer, so I'm not sure why everyone is acting like we're on the verge of relegation, it confuses me so much. 

 

For whats its worth, I generally agree with all you are saying, the strange thing about Skyes was how players walked past and ignored him, it was very unusual and we were asking ourselves was there a bit more to it. Cam's effort to try and get back and block the cross after being beaten, was very unlike him, he normally busts a gut and even if not quite fit did not look like the normal effort, hence is there a bit of player power going on against LM, guess we will see if they all step up to plate in a local derby, win or lose you want to see the togetherness and effort. 

A good win in the next couple of games and the forum will be full of making the playoffs

[Davefevs]

@sh1t_ref_again, @Tim Monaghan, @TDarwall

Stuff has gone off the scale.  Objectivity has been replaced by extremity and knee-jerk , where we are back to win, lose, draw every week deciding the base for posting on OTIB.

At this point in time, it’s a bit of a mixed bag.

On another thread I had drafted something (before the thread got taken offline) that said in Nige’s first part-season here, he got to game 36, a 3-0 away win at Brum and the league table said this:

13 points from play-offs, 13 points from relegation.  The epitome of season over.  Nige at that point went into 21/22 prep-mode.  It really didn’t matter what happened from that point, it was all about the next season.

As it stands, a couple of games short of that same 36 game point, it’s quite similar:

11 points off of the playoffs, 9 points off relegation.

It’s not quite “season over”, but it’s not far off.  We will probably know in 2 games time whether it is or not…and that could be either direction.  We shouldn’t only be looking down in our “what-ifs”, we could look-up also.

I guess I’d probably say - why even bother doing “what-ifs”!  But it’s creating scenarios that then hypothesise on prospective outcomes, and these are rightly challenged by someone of the opposing view, scenario, or hypothesis.

It just creates aggro!

Id rather see how Manning does, what emerges, etc.  I think we want to read too much into body language, especially after defeat.

Edited February 29 by Davefevs

[sh1t_ref_again]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@sh1t_ref_again, @Tim Monaghan, @TDarwall

Stuff has gone off the scale.  Objectivity has been replaced by extremity and knee-jerk , where we are back to win, lose, draw every week deciding the base for posting on OTIB.

At this point in time, it’s a bit of a mixed bag.

On another thread I had drafted something (before the thread got taken offline) that said in Nige’s first part-season here, he got to game 36, a 3-0 away win at Brum and the league table said this:

13 points from play-offs, 13 points from relegation.  The epitome of season over.  Nige at that point went into 21/22 prep-mode.  It really didn’t matter what happened from that point, it was all about the next season.

As it stands, a couple of games short of that same 36 game point, it’s quite similar:

11 points off of the playoffs, 9 points off relegation.

It’s not quite “season over”, but it’s not far off.  We will probably know in 2 games time whether it is or not…and that could be either direction.  We shouldn’t only be looking down in our “what-ifs”, we could look-up also.

I guess I’d probably say - why even bother doing “what-ifs”!  But it’s creating scenarios that then hypothesise on prospective outcomes, and these are rightly challenged by someone of the opposing view, scenario, or hypothesis.

It just creates aggro!

Id rather see how Manning does, what emerges, etc.  I think we want to read too much into body language, especially after defeat.

As you know Dave my posts generally tend to be on the positive side (perhaps even happy clapper) so its been some very difficult reading on here recently, most of which I have gone past being bothered to reply to as its so extreme and other stuff bored of hearing being constantly regurgitated for the sake of it.

We are where we are, in general I like what LM is trying to do and I hope the initial buy in the players seem to have is still there, and the last couple of games have just been poor performances, due to a number of players having off days, perhaps hampered by team selection / substitutions. I am just hoping we blow Cardiff away and give an enjoyable run to the end of the season with some positivity for next year. The season is far from over for me, I just enjoy going to watch a game of football where we put in a good performance and I can chat over it with my mates over a few beers (just a shame they don't serve Butcombe any more)

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Let's be honest trajectory wise well pressure can do strange things as the season enters the last third but even had we won the last 2...

5 points off. Bit of an outside chance at best.

55 from 34 extrapolated is 74.41 points. Even had we won the last 2 the odds are we would have needed 8 wins and a draw minimum for a realistic chance.

I reckon 69-75 will be the 6th place finishing points total.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Tim Monaghan said:

There are a lot of assumptions here, aren’t there, mixed in with a dollop of complete fantasy. Professional footballers don’t just give up, especially when you’re being watched by 23,000 people. You don’t work your whole entire life to become a footballer and then think, “sod it, I can’t be arsed today.” It’s a load of nonsense. Maybe you can say that about a handful of players over time (e.g., Tomlin), but 99% of professional athletes are winners and are playing for their careers every time they step onto the pitch.

Where were these posts a few weeks back when we beat Southampton and Boro? The team has apparently gone into meltdown when only a few weeks ago, we were flying high. We’ve been in one of the highest positions we’ve been in for years. Would we be having these posts if we’d lost against Southampton and Boro and won against Wednesday and QPR? We've all gone insane with xG here, stats there. Lets just put everything in a great chuff off spreadsheet and play the league that way.  Actually sick of it. We aren't doing that badly!! The last two games, absolute dog mess, but its like everything else that's been good now doesn't exist, and now we've got a made-up internal rift. Personally I’d be worried if players didn’t have their hands on their hips and looked pissed off after losing a game. I was fuming after every game that I lost. But that could mean anything.

2015–16 Champ 18th   2016–17 Champ 17th   2017–18 Champ 11th   2018–19 Champ 8th   2019–20 Champ 12th   2020–21 Champ 19th   2021–22 Champ 17th   2022–23 Champ 14th

Above is our Championship finishes since 2015. We currently sit 4 points (classing +7 goal difference as a point) off of 10th. I know its not where we want to be, although a recent forum poll suggested that the fans would be happy with it.  A 10th place finish would show some good progress heading into the summer, so I'm not sure why everyone is acting like we're on the verge of relegation, it confuses me so much. 

 

Clearly haven't ever watched Anthony Martial play then, or Rashford in 2 of the last 3 seasons. There are many players over the years that have put in anything but 100%.

As for "We aren't doing badly." I'm glad you are satisfied with mediocre. We are no better off than we were in October. The past 6 months with our new Head Coach have not improved us. You keep spouting the 2 matches he got it right when in fact half of one of those matches also falls in to the dismal to watch category and was in fact called out as such on here.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Saw this on a thread, Tony Wilkins..ha.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Saw this on a thread, Tony Wilkins..ha.

I could be rude and that tweet, but I’ve done my rude and angry post quota today

[Tim Monaghan]

8 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Clearly haven't ever watched Anthony Martial play then, or Rashford in 2 of the last 3 seasons. There are many players over the years that have put in anything but 100%.

As for "We aren't doing badly." I'm glad you are satisfied with mediocre. We are no better off than we were in October. The past 6 months with our new Head Coach have not improved us. You keep spouting the 2 matches he got it right when in fact half of one of those matches also falls in to the dismal to watch category and was in fact called out as such on here.

Although we still emerged victorious in the game, my primary focus remains on the three points we gained. I acknowledge that not everything is perfect, but the situation isn't as dire as some portray it to be. Reading through this forum, one might think we're on the brink of relegation. While I concede that our upcoming results could sway my perspective towards pessimism, we're far from facing such a scenario at the moment.

From my perspective, our current standing in the league is actually better than it has been for quite some time. Many of the teams ahead of us benefit from parachute payments, Leicester (parachute payments), Leeds (parachute payments), Southampton (parachute payments) West Brom (parachute payments), Norwich (parachute payments), Watford (parachute payments), leaving only a handful on an equal footing with us. Ipswich, Hull, Preston, Coventry, and Sunderland are the only ones without this advantage who are above us.

Do you see what I'm getting at? The situation isn't as bleak as it's being painted, and jumping to the conclusion of sacking the manager seems premature at this stage.

Of course, circumstances could change in the coming weeks or months, but no one can accurately predict the future.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said:

Although we still emerged victorious in the game, my primary focus remains on the three points we gained. I acknowledge that not everything is perfect, but the situation isn't as dire as some portray it to be. Reading through this forum, one might think we're on the brink of relegation. While I concede that our upcoming results could sway my perspective towards pessimism, we're far from facing such a scenario at the moment.

From my perspective, our current standing in the league is actually better than it has been for quite some time. Many of the teams ahead of us benefit from parachute payments, Leicester (parachute payments), Leeds (parachute payments), Southampton (parachute payments) West Brom (parachute payments), Norwich (parachute payments), Watford (parachute payments), leaving only a handful on an equal footing with us. Ipswich, Hull, Preston, Coventry, and Sunderland are the only ones without this advantage who are above us.

Do you see what I'm getting at? The situation isn't as bleak as it's being painted, and jumping to the conclusion of sacking the manager seems premature at this stage.

Of course, circumstances could change in the coming weeks or months, but no one can accurately predict the future.

 

West Brom are out of Parachute Payments but their owner being unable to stick in Cash Flow probably had assisted in limiting their expenditure in conjunction with the legacy said Parachute Payments kind of benfiting them this year at least.

However strictly speaking WBA had their 2nd and final year last season. Now on EFL money.. 

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Tim Monaghan said:

Although we still emerged victorious in the game, my primary focus remains on the three points we gained. I acknowledge that not everything is perfect, but the situation isn't as dire as some portray it to be. Reading through this forum, one might think we're on the brink of relegation. While I concede that our upcoming results could sway my perspective towards pessimism, we're far from facing such a scenario at the moment.

From my perspective, our current standing in the league is actually better than it has been for quite some time. Many of the teams ahead of us benefit from parachute payments, Leicester (parachute payments), Leeds (parachute payments), Southampton (parachute payments) West Brom (parachute payments), Norwich (parachute payments), Watford (parachute payments), leaving only a handful on an equal footing with us. Ipswich, Hull, Preston, Coventry, and Sunderland are the only ones without this advantage who are above us.

Do you see what I'm getting at? The situation isn't as bleak as it's being painted, and jumping to the conclusion of sacking the manager seems premature at this stage.

Of course, circumstances could change in the coming weeks or months, but no one can accurately predict the future.

 

Neither West Brom or Watford are in receipt of Parachute payments. You also fail to recognise that in October we were on (admittedly) slow upward trajectory, that imo would have bourne fruit with a play off challenge next season. So no I do not see what you are getting at.

The situation isn't bleak but it's not exactly enthralling, either.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Neither West Brom or Watford are in receipt of Parachute payments. You also fail to recognise that in October we were on (admittedly) slow upward trajectory, that imo would have bourne fruit with a play off challenge next season. So no I do not see what you are getting at.

The situation isn't bleak but it's not exactly enthralling, either.

Watford are, next season unless they surge to the playoffs and win them they won't be. Ditto Norwich.

Agree with the rest of your post.

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Watford are, next season unless they surge to the playoffs and win them they won't be. Ditto Norwich.

Agree with the rest of your post.

Thanks I know Norwich are in their last year, wasn't actually sure on Watford and didn't have time to fact check before posting.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Sir Geoff said:

Thanks I know Norwich are in their last year, wasn't actually sure on Watford and didn't have time to fact check before posting.

It is hard to keep track tbh because yoyoing, then the 2 year v 3 year split.

Anything between 3 and 6 clubs will be in receipt next year. Minimum 3, max 6.

[Davefevs]

@Sir Geoff @Mr Popodopolous

Spreadsheets, grasshopper, spreadsheets!

[Street red]

On 28/02/2024 at 09:24, BrizzleRed said:

My feelings exactly  

I’m resigned to the fact that SL and the fans want totally different things and as it’s ‘his club’, I’m not expecting us to get what we want while he’s the owner.

That’s why I want him gone.  This is a pale shadow of the club it used to be and he can take a lot of the blame for that.  It takes far more than a shiny stadium to make something to be proud of and to be totally honest, this club just feels dull and bland now.

If he just listened to his ‘customers’ occasionally, that would help, but that really doesn’t seem to be in his nature.

His way or the highway ...