Do You Give Him Help?

[ExiledAjax]

The players? Anyone really but particularly people like King and James?

First port of call should be sourcing feedback from the squad. Working with the players and other staff to look for a solution, and listening to suggestions. 

If the issue is truly that the players are struggling to implement or understand Manning's system then surely they've told him that. Surely there's been some discussion, however informal, about how else they can play.

[Sir Geoff]

12 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Get Warnock back down from Scotland!!!!!

The AI generated manager is not up to the task!

Just realised,  he's the ultimate BS bot.

[CodeRed]

4 minutes ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

I've never known a leader who focuses only on theory, concepts and soundbites who has been successful.

What LM lacks is charisma, gravitas and authority and he can't be 'helped' with those. 

All the great managers and coaches possess those qualities to motivate and drive the squad.

 

Exactly, we've all seen and heard enough to know he's not up to the job at this level. He can't change, and he won't change becomes he thinks his processes are right and he thinks it's all the players fault. Manning and Hogg think and act as one.  It's now a case of when and not if he goes, I expect we'll pick up the odd win and limp through to the end of the season because crayon boy hasn't got the bollox to do anything other than keep his head down and stay out of the way.

The whole cycle will start again round about October when the Lansdowns will have no choice but to sack him and then we will see their ineptitude take centre stage again as they dither around wondering what to do next. They will of course appoint an experienced man ( they always do after the rookie fails ) who will begin doing what needs to be done but will themselves be fired when they tell SL what's needed and he doesn't like it and shoots the messenger. Again 

And on it goes...

[IAmNick]

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

The players? Anyone really but particularly people like King and James?

First port of call should be sourcing feedback from the squad. Working with the players and other staff to look for a solution, and listening to suggestions. 

If the issue is truly that the players are struggling to implement or understand Manning's system then surely they've told him that. Surely there's been some discussion, however informal, about how else they can play.

It's a good shout and I agree, however in the squad of that stature we have:

Weimann - off on loan (and making a decent impact at a side who are 5th but that's another story)

Naismith - good guy, but he's always injured. He's not actually training with the squad or playing games so there's a bit of distance there

King/James - Both consummate professionals I think so I don't doubt they'd help. However, they're very much Pearson players (not that this should matter, but it's still there) and they're also both off in a few months time - and if rumours are to be believed their contracts (or lack of) contributed to Pearson falling out with other senior members of staff. That's got to impact their mental state however professional they are

[Bazooka Joe]

53 minutes ago, fatchers said:

I hear both Johnsons are available.

What!?

Do you seriously think Boris and Stanley are the answer?

Whatever next?

Ed and David Milliband, and some hard Labour?

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Picking up on something @headhunter said on the pod re Ward, Benny etc and at times the need for help, particularly when adapting to a new level.

It’s now accepted that in a lot of ways Liam is struggling. Badly. In such a circumstance the “third way” can be to bring in someone from outside in order to assist. If you look at our managerial team (including Tinnion) there is nobody who has managed at this level successfully, or played above League One consistently. In short, there’s nobody who really, really knows the game and how it works.

So, on the assumption the board don’t want rid of Liam, would this be an acceptable third way? And who would it be (please don’t say Nige) - and most importantly of all, because I have my doubts, would Liam accept it?

See What Is The True Cost of this "Management" Team & Should we appoint a Manager? thread

[Galley is our king]

22 minutes ago, Ben1980 said:

Maybe we can help Manning by locking Tinnion in a cupboard. That way he won’t be able to pop into Liam’s office with his ‘ideas’ and ‘advice’. 

Great idea  can we put Gay in there as well?

[milo1111]

5 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Exactly, we've all seen and heard enough to know he's not up to the job at this level. He can't change, and he won't change becomes he thinks his processes are right and he thinks it's all the players fault. Manning and Hogg think and act as one.  It's now a case of when and not if he goes, I expect we'll pick up the odd win and limp through to the end of the season because crayon boy hasn't got the bollox to do anything other than keep his head down and stay out of the way.

The whole cycle will start again round about October when the Lansdowns will have no choice but to sack him and then we will see their ineptitude take centre stage again as they dither around wondering what to do next. They will of course appoint an experienced man ( they always do after the rookie fails ) who will begin doing what needs to be done but will themselves be fired when they tell SL what's needed and he doesn't like it and shoots the messenger. Again 

And on it goes...

This is exactly how I see. History just keeps repeating itself doesn’t it.

insane that the lansdowns can’t see it.

[Crackers Corner]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

It is probably an experienced second coach - our structure rules out a DoF as that treads on Tinnions toes. To be fair you can call it what you want though. If you asked (for example, not suggesting) Joe Jordan to come in as a consultant his title doesn’t matter - it’s what he brings to the table.

One of the (many) issues I think Liam has is that he’s blinded by the process - and the book he’s read is the same one “Hoggy” has read. So I think he needs a different viewpoint, to see what the book doesn’t tell him. Major caveat here is that I think he believes in the process so much that he may not show willingness to take it.

We could bring  in a "Championship Experianced Organiser" and make up a role called CEO?

[Tony Tootle]

I wonder if Tinnion questioned his inclusion of Andy King on Saturday?

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

See What Is The True Cost of this "Management" Team & Should we appoint a Manager? thread

Thanks - with the multitude of threads on here it was on page 3 as wasn’t engaged with massively to keep pushing it back up. Don’t disagree with the point made in there but it’s a bit of a different question 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

It is probably an experienced second coach - our structure rules out a DoF as that treads on Tinnions toes. To be fair you can call it what you want though. If you asked (for example, not suggesting) Joe Jordan to come in as a consultant his title doesn’t matter - it’s what he brings to the table.

One of the (many) issues I think Liam has is that he’s blinded by the process - and the book he’s read is the same one “Hoggy” has read. So I think he needs a different viewpoint, to see what the book doesn’t tell him. Major caveat here is that I think he believes in the process so much that he may not show willingness to take it.

 

Therein lies the problem as explained in the first line.

I think we could have the most experienced coach in the world advising Manning; as long as Tinnion's recruiting the players and fulfilling that DOF role, it won't work in the long run. 

[The Original OTIB]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Thanks - with the multitude of threads on here it was on page 3 as wasn’t engaged with massively to keep pushing it back up. Don’t disagree with the point made in there but it’s a bit of a different question 

Similar issiue of 2 part question. Should we appoiint a Manager? Yes, "help", but senior.

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Therein lies the problem as explained in the first line.

I think we could have the most experienced coach in the world advising Manning; as long as Tinnion's recruiting the players and fulfilling that DOF role, it won't work in the long run. 

This ain't about the long run at the moment 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

33 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I just wonder what a good tonking, let's say 5 or 6 - 0 tomorrow would do for their thought process? 

And it's very possible it will happen the way we are playing.

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Picking up on something @headhunter said on the pod re Ward, Benny etc and at times the need for help, particularly when adapting to a new level.

It’s now accepted that in a lot of ways Liam is struggling. Badly. In such a circumstance the “third way” can be to bring in someone from outside in order to assist. If you look at our managerial team (including Tinnion) there is nobody who has managed at this level successfully, or played above League One consistently. In short, there’s nobody who really, really knows the game and how it works.

So, on the assumption the board don’t want rid of Liam, would this be an acceptable third way? And who would it be (please don’t say Nige) - and most importantly of all, because I have my doubts, would Liam accept it?

Lansdown actually said he was bringing in help for Tinnion (years ago), but that turned out not to be true. Ergo, has been pondered before.

Edited March 4 by The Original OTIB

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

And it's very possible it will happen the way we are playing.

Possibly tomorrow night. 

[LondonBristolian]

I don’t think you can bring in more experienced “help” without fundamentally undermining the manager. The board have to decide they either back him to do the job or they  don’t back him. I don’t think additional help is a realistic option and I don’t think Liam could or should accept it if the offer was made.

[spudski]

I'd definitely give him help...out the door, him and his sidekick kick.

[Loosey Boy]

18 minutes ago, Tony Tootle said:

I wonder if Tinnion questioned his inclusion of Andy King on Saturday?

I think we both know the answer to that, bearing in mind it’s Liam we are talking about, not Nige

Edited March 4 by Loosey Boy

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don’t think you can bring in more experienced “help” without fundamentally undermining the manager. The board have to decide they either back him to do the job or they  don’t back him. I don’t think additional help is a realistic option and I don’t think Liam could or should accept it if the offer was made.

I think I made the point when the forum discussed King as a potential caretaker the other week that one issue I could see is that Liam doesn’t appear to have anyone who he could bring in without undermining him. When asked about his influences on appointment he gave names like Brian Klug - people who are lifelong coaches (and often not at first team level) as opposed to managers. He’s not been in the environment where he seems to have built senior connections who he could call on to perform such a role.

Again, avoidance of doubt I think he should go and we shouldn’t look to give him “help” - just trying to give another angle/option

[BrizzleRed]

19 minutes ago, milo1111 said:

This is exactly how I see. History just keeps repeating itself doesn’t it.

insane that the lansdowns can’t see it.

The longer we experience the many failures of SL’s ownership of this club, the more I’m convinced that Hargreaves is the real brains of the Hargreaves Lansdown empire.

If that company was run in the same way City are, they’d have been totally ****** years ago.

[beaverface]

Fundamentally, if we brought someone in to help LM, they'd want to introduce their idea's, riding roughshod over LM's views - basically, it wouldn't supplement LM, but effectively be a new manager!

If LM is the student of the game that he alludes to, then he needs to study the approach where we've had our most successful results this season i.e playing 4 at the back, playing 433, fast\pressing\counterattacking football. Caveat: Think we're screwed without Sam Bell myself, so we may have to revert to a top two of Wells\Conway, or maybe play Conway, Wells, and\or Sykes\Knight\Mebude as a front pressing 3.

All he needs to do, is get through to the summer, and then all his new signings can be brought in, and all the old guard can be sent on their way. The buck will well and truly rest on his, Tinnion's and Jon Lansdown's shoulders then though.

[42nite]

1 hour ago, nebristolred said:

In all seriousness, I like the idea but intrigued to know what role you would be thinking? Outside of a DoF or a second coach what role exists at that level?

Assistant Tecknical Director!

 

[WECANDO]

40 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

What!?

Do you seriously think Boris and Stanley are the answer?

Whatever next?

Ed and David Milliband, and some hard Labour?

They wouldn't be any worse than the ***** weve got now.

[rednotblue]

It's more a case that Manning needs to adapt.

I'm all for possession based football but you have to create chances as goals win games. 

I would be interested to know how many goals / chances we have created since Manning took charge.

 

You have to adapt to the tools you have.

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

We're getting into Dean Holden territory. The best thing we can do to help him is to give him his p45. No one wants to see him be embarrassed. 

[spudski]

The more I think about it, the angrier I get regarding his appointment. 

We've gone for a 38 year old, with less than 4 years experience in any senior position,of first team football, at far less a level than what we are at. He's only coached 164 senior games to date.  And averages 8 months in a job. 

From NP who's got vast amounts of experience, to this...

They want to get rid of our experienced players as well. 

How the hell do JL and BT think this will ever work?

They seriously can't be that inept at footballing judgement at this level? If they are...then **** me

I personally believe it's to make their position easier. 

Well imo...they've made it worse for themselves. Who's gonna trust these idiots? 

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

The more I think about it, the angrier I get regarding his appointment. 

We've gone for a 38 year old, with less than 4 years experience in any senior position,of first team football, at far less a level than what we are at. He's only coached 164 senior games to date.  And averages 8 months in a job. 

From NP who's got vast amounts of experience, to this...

They want to get rid of our experienced players as well. 

How the hell do JL and BT think this will ever work?

They seriously can't be that inept at footballing judgement at this level? If they are...then **** me

I personally believe it's to make their position easier. 

Well imo...they've made it worse for themselves. Who's gonna trust these idiots? 

I think it's time SL stepped in and put everyone out of their misery. I can't see him accepting his investment being destroyed like this, family or not.

[ExiledAjax]

58 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

It's a good shout and I agree, however in the squad of that stature we have:

Weimann - off on loan (and making a decent impact at a side who are 5th but that's another story)

Naismith - good guy, but he's always injured. He's not actually training with the squad or playing games so there's a bit of distance there

King/James - Both consummate professionals I think so I don't doubt they'd help. However, they're very much Pearson players (not that this should matter, but it's still there) and they're also both off in a few months time - and if rumours are to be believed their contracts (or lack of) contributed to Pearson falling out with other senior members of staff. That's got to impact their mental state however professional they are

If he wants feedback from Naismith then he just needs to listen to the RobinsTV commentary from Sheff Wed!

If King and James have checked out or are going through the motions then that's a shame but I don't blame them. Never blamed Diedhiou or any other player for easing off in the dog days of a contract. It's only human.

[Silvio Dante]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

The more I think about it, the angrier I get regarding his appointment. 

We've gone for a 38 year old, with less than 4 years experience in any senior position,of first team football, at far less a level than what we are at. He's only coached 164 senior games to date.  And averages 8 months in a job. 

From NP who's got vast amounts of experience, to this...

They want to get rid of our experienced players as well. 

How the hell do JL and BT think this will ever work?

They seriously can't be that inept at footballing judgement at this level? If they are...then **** me

I personally believe it's to make their position easier. 

Well imo...they've made it worse for themselves. Who's gonna trust these idiots? 

Whats fairly clear is that the anger isn’t abating. 
 

Normally what happens after a bad performance is that there’s a reaction, people call for the manager to go etc. In the days after that, cooler heads tend to prevail.

Not here. Not now. And it’s the same across the clubs socials as well.

The issue is that people have sussed that Mannings Southampton game was the exception, not the rule, and they’ve not unreasonably concluded he won’t be able to do the job here based both on what we’ve seen so far and in his prior career.

I can’t see a way it’s pulled round.