Do You Give Him Help?

[Lakeside Red]

If Maning needs help he should never have been appointed in the first place. Just another Lansdown fxxk up .

  

[pongo88]

IIRC he brought his own coaches with him when he came. If he still needs help what do you do with them except let them set out the cones at the beginning of a training session 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Picking up on something @headhunter said on the pod re Ward, Benny etc and at times the need for help, particularly when adapting to a new level.

It’s now accepted that in a lot of ways Liam is struggling. Badly. In such a circumstance the “third way” can be to bring in someone from outside in order to assist. If you look at our managerial team (including Tinnion) there is nobody who has managed at this level successfully, or played above League One consistently. In short, there’s nobody who really, really knows the game and how it works.

So, on the assumption the board don’t want rid of Liam, would this be an acceptable third way? And who would it be (please don’t say Nige) - and most importantly of all, because I have my doubts, would Liam accept it?

Without going over old ground, this is something I said from pretty much day one.

We let Nige, Dave, Curt and Jase leave the club.  All with PL experience / nous.  They knew what they were trying to achieve.  Couple that with Richard Gould (a smart operator) then Phil Alexander, and it was a good set-up.

I asked who would pick up the slack left by these folk.

You ever sat in a meeting / training session and think you understand it, then you have to fly solo.  You sometimes realise you didn’t quite get it, but didn’t want to put your hand up and ask.

Thats Bristol City FC now.  They thought they got it.  They didn’t.

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

It is probably an experienced second coach - our structure rules out a DoF as that treads on Tinnions toes. To be fair you can call it what you want though. If you asked (for example, not suggesting) Joe Jordan to come in as a consultant his title doesn’t matter - it’s what he brings to the table.

One of the (many) issues I think Liam has is that he’s blinded by the process - and the book he’s read is the same one “Hoggy” has read. So I think he needs a different viewpoint, to see what the book doesn’t tell him. Major caveat here is that I think he believes in the process so much that he may not show willingness to take it.

As you’ll know I thought Craig Short might’ve joined us (especially when his wife followed me in twitter), but you ruled that out, as he wasn’t a Manning man, which I wasn’t aware of.

Nige brought it people to compliment him, cover his gaps, and challenge him.

This mob are all as one.  You don’t want your assistants to think exactly the same.

1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

Don't you think Tinnion already sees himself as that experienced older head that is 'helping'? I suspect the club does.

Yes, and yes.  I can only imagine that spotlight is shining brightly on him at this moment.

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Exactly, we've all seen and heard enough to know he's not up to the job at this level. He can't change, and he won't change becomes he thinks his processes are right and he thinks it's all the players fault. Manning and Hogg think and act as one.  It's now a case of when and not if he goes, I expect we'll pick up the odd win and limp through to the end of the season because crayon boy hasn't got the bollox to do anything other than keep his head down and stay out of the way.

The whole cycle will start again round about October when the Lansdowns will have no choice but to sack him and then we will see their ineptitude take centre stage again as they dither around wondering what to do next. They will of course appoint an experienced man ( they always do after the rookie fails ) who will begin doing what needs to be done but will themselves be fired when they tell SL what's needed and he doesn't like it and shoots the messenger. Again 

And on it goes...

It’s so frustrating isn’t it.

He's taking us backwards.

Just to be a bit controversial, and mischievous, had LM got penalties at the rate Nigel Pearson did, pretty much nil, we be sat on 38 points!  Nine points (3 wins) turned into three points (3 draws).

Its a stupid point, as the penalties have started to regress to the mean, but it’s an angle.

14 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

If King and James have checked out or are going through the motions then that's a shame but I don't blame them.

There appear to be no signs of that from either.

[Capman]

18 minutes ago, spudski said:

The more I think about it, the angrier I get regarding his appointment. 

We've gone for a 38 year old, with less than 4 years experience in any senior position,of first team football, at far less a level than what we are at. He's only coached 164 senior games to date.  And averages 8 months in a job. 

From NP who's got vast amounts of experience, to this...

They want to get rid of our experienced players as well. 

How the hell do JL and BT think this will ever work?

They seriously can't be that inept at footballing judgement at this level? If they are...then **** me

I personally believe it's to make their position easier. 

Well imo...they've made it worse for themselves. Who's gonna trust these idiots? 

Steve is ultimately the owner and needs to step up to now. There is a line you cross when you choose to deliberately lie to people and JL and BT crossed that line when they sacked Pearson. It may be that Steve thinks it’s ’his club’ but it isn’t. If the fans stop coming his investment is down the pan. 
By lying about the reasons for Pearson going the board and BT took the supporters for mugs. They treated us with utter contempt. 
The only solution now is for Steve to step in and tell Jon his time as chairman is up. They can save face by citing other business interests, but until there is a change at that level this mess does not change. 

[Eddie Hitler]

6 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Whats fairly clear is that the anger isn’t abating. 
 

Normally what happens after a bad performance is that there’s a reaction, people call for the manager to go etc. In the days after that, cooler heads tend to prevail.

Not here. Not now. And it’s the same across the clubs socials as well.

The issue is that people have sussed that Mannings Southampton game was the exception, not the rule, and they’ve not unreasonably concluded he won’t be able to do the job here based both on what we’ve seen so far and in his prior career.

I can’t see a way it’s pulled round.

 

So now we go get in an experienced manager who will demand his own team and his own way of doing things.

Obviously not Nigel, that would be too embarrassing for the owners, but someone of similar experience.

Or we get in another "yes man" who will involve us in an annual relegation battle during their tenure before departing for Sunderland.

Maybe it is time to ditch the wishful thinking and trying to copy the clubs who have passed by us on their way to the Premiership and start doing what actually works.

If you have to have an inexperienced coach in then they need an experienced DoF to guide them, or you just get in a very experienced manager.

Every managerial appointment this century has been a hopeful gamble with IMO two exceptions: Gary Johnson and Nigel Pearson.

And of the hopeful gambles only Cotts was actually successful.

[1960maaan]

19 minutes ago, spudski said:

The more I think about it, the angrier I get regarding his appointment. 

We've gone for a 38 year old, with less than 4 years experience in any senior position,of first team football, at far less a level than what we are at. He's only coached 164 senior games to date.  And averages 8 months in a job. 

From NP who's got vast amounts of experience, to this...

They want to get rid of our experienced players as well. 

How the hell do JL and BT think this will ever work?

They seriously can't be that inept at footballing judgement at this level? If they are...then **** me

I personally believe it's to make their position easier. 

Well imo...they've made it worse for themselves. Who's gonna trust these idiots? 

This is a real worry, and will impact on what appears to be a squad losing any bond.

There was a good point made on the Pod about Osman getting rid of threats. This sounds like people wanting to get any Leaders out of the way to make their lives easier.

I heard talk of Tinnion being devious and a bit two faced , he has wormed his way into a position way above his capabilities and he won't want anyone rocking the ship for him. We have a Manager stepping up levels who won't cause any waves, next get rid of experienced Pros who might just speak up and ask questions ?
Tins must be loving himself now. 

[LondonBristolian]

36 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think I made the point when the forum discussed King as a potential caretaker the other week that one issue I could see is that Liam doesn’t appear to have anyone who he could bring in without undermining him. When asked about his influences on appointment he gave names like Brian Klug - people who are lifelong coaches (and often not at first team level) as opposed to managers. He’s not been in the environment where he seems to have built senior connections who he could call on to perform such a role.

Again, avoidance of doubt I think he should go and we shouldn’t look to give him “help” - just trying to give another angle/option

I get what you're saying and largely agree but I also think, had Manning brought in some Klug-style support at the start it might have helped.

At the moment we have:

1) A (possibly) promising manager who has previously managed for a limited period of time in League One and who is at this level for the first time.

2) An assistant with the same amount of experience as he has and who has only previous been assistant to Liam before so doesn't have experience of a range of inputs and approaches.

3) A Technical Director who is a club stalwart who has worked their way through the ranks behind the scenes which has the upside of knowing the club inside out but the downside of not being able to draw upon experiences from other clubs and approaches. 

4) A Chair who has been at the club from a young age through his father and, whilst having been Chair for a long time, doesn't have a wide range of workplace experiences.

I don't actually think any of 1, 2 or 3 in isolation are necessarily a bad thing. It's good to give people opportunities and sometimes you are better off taking a gamble on someone who is unproven rathe than someone who has reached their ceiling and is jaded as a result.

But 1, 2, 3 and 4 combined leaves us with a massive deficit in experience and - as we saw a few years back with Dean Holden - it tends to be when things are going against you that the lack of experience shows as there isn't the knowledge and experience to draw upon different solutions from different places to find something that works. 

If the club want Tinnion to succeed as Technical Director then brilliant but, to do that, you need some experience on the board and a relatively experienced manager to address the experience gaps. If the club want Manning to succeed, great, but you need either an experienced DoF/Technical Director OR an experienced assistant. 

Like I said in my previous post, I don't think there is any way that the club right now could push for a change in the managerial structure without implicitly admitting a lack of faith in the manager. But I do think Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion have failed themselves as much as they've failed Manning and Hogg by allowing a system to be implemented where the entire command chain from Chairman to Assistant Manager at the club has massive gaps in its range of experience and no consideration has been given to addressing the obvious gaps.

 

[beaverface]

4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

So now we go get in an experienced manager who will demand his own team and his own way of doing things.

Obviously not Nigel, that would be too embarrassing for the owners, but someone of similar experience.

Or we get in another "yes man" who will involve us in an annual relegation battle during their tenure before departing for Sunderland.

Maybe it is time to ditch the wishful thinking and trying to copy the clubs who have passed by us on their way to the Premiership and start doing what actually works.

If you have to have an inexperienced coach in then they need an experienced DoF to guide them, or you just get in a very experienced manager.

Every managerial appointment this century has been a hopeful gamble with IMO two exceptions: Gary Johnson and Nigel Pearson.

And of the hopeful gambles only Cotts was actually successful.

If they did eat humble pie and genuinely admitted they got it wrong, and brought back NP, I'd be fine with it. In some ways they'd be building a lot of bridges with the fans. I do accept that there will be fans, who would label them and never accept the back tracking.

What I will say, is that none of the other managers I can remember in my time (since ~1989 for me) from following City week-in, week-out has EVER played the amount of Academy players that NP did.

Tinnion argues that he want's to see a pathway from academy to the 1st team, but all I'm seeing is retrospective backward steps !! Sure, I'd still want to see new signings, whether that's for NP or LM, but I also want to see the level of academy players come through like we saw during NP's reign, and under LM that doesn't appear to be happening.

[IAmNick]

26 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

If he wants feedback from Naismith then he just needs to listen to the RobinsTV commentary from Sheff Wed!

If King and James have checked out or are going through the motions then that's a shame but I don't blame them. Never blamed Diedhiou or any other player for easing off in the dog days of a contract. It's only human.

I'm not sure they have (at least not intentionally), as they're great pros like I said. However, it doesn't exactly imply "We value and need your input to get us looking up the table" when they're 2 months away from leaving the club with seemingly no offer to stay on the table. It'd feel odd to Manning to start getting them heavily involved in things at this point and in that situation imo, both for him and them.

Edited March 4 by IAmNick

[1960maaan]

6 minutes ago, Capman said:

Steve is ultimately the owner and needs to step up to now. There is a line you cross when you choose to deliberately lie to people and JL and BT crossed that line when they sacked Pearson. It may be that Steve thinks it’s ’his club’ but it isn’t. If the fans stop coming his investment is down the pan. 
By lying about the reasons for Pearson going the board and BT took the supporters for mugs. They treated us with utter contempt. 
The only solution now is for Steve to step in and tell Jon his time as chairman is up. They can save face by citing other business interests, but until there is a change at that level this mess does not change. 

The problem is, Steve isn't going to step away far enough to let a new (real?) Chairman do his job properly. With Jon there he is , or seems , just an extension of Steve's ideas . I would be surprised if any decision of note wasn't talked through with Dad . The day to day will be fine , but it's going to be discussed.
For an effective new Chairman to come in , SL would have to let him get on with his job, he didn't even let the last CEO do that. 

To get us on track again we need a new Chairman and CEO minimum , I'd add DoF and send Tins back to the Academy / loans manager .

[Silvio Dante]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As you’ll know I thought Craig Short might’ve joined us (especially when his wife followed me in twitter), but you ruled that out, as he wasn’t a Manning man, which I wasn’t aware of.

 

Did we ever establish why Mrs Short followed you?

When we had that discussion I made the point that not only was Short not Mannings man, but that he’d pissed off a lot of people at Oxford with the way he disposed of Wayne Brown. I was looking at the Oxford forum again last night and it seems the way Manning left caused a lot of bad feeling - obviously there’s the job half done piece, but if several on there who appear to be ITK are correct, he came to us and didn’t say goodbye to staff/players - the players just got a text from him to say he was leaving.

Doesn’t scream a great man manager who built real relationships with players. And if you don’t do that, when things go wrong you are in trouble.

[ExiledAjax]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

There appear to be no signs of that from either.

 

8 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I'm not sure they have (at least not intentionally), as they're great pros like I said.

Agree agree. The word "if" was doing the heavy lifting in my post.

So, if they've not given up on City, then surely they are the first port of call if Manning wants/needs "help".

[Davefevs]

Just now, Silvio Dante said:

Did we ever establish why Mrs Short followed you?

You mean apart from the obvious….

No, guess it was off of the back of a tweet analysing Oxford under Manning.

[Capman]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

The problem is, Steve isn't going to step away far enough to let a new (real?) Chairman do his job properly. With Jon there he is , or seems , just an extension of Steve's ideas . I would be surprised if any decision of note wasn't talked through with Dad . The day to day will be fine , but it's going to be discussed.
For an effective new Chairman to come in , SL would have to let him get on with his job, he didn't even let the last CEO do that. 

To get us on track again we need a new Chairman and CEO minimum , I'd add DoF and send Tins back to the Academy / loans manager .

I agree, and that is what makes the whole thing so depressing. Maybe the supporters need to act and demand change at the top to force Steve’s hand. 
It would be great to see the crowd make a statement, not turning up would be probably the most powerful. I imagine that Steve would feel forced to change if the ground was empty for the next home game (apart from away fans). But short of being able to arrange that I don’t see what we can do. The club has treated us with contempt, but as long as we take it I agree they will continue to do so. 

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You mean apart from the obvious….

No, guess it was off of the back of a tweet analysing Oxford under Manning.

If a Mrs Short from Oxford tunes into FBC on Wednesday to see the live video be afraid..!

[CodeRed]

8 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

So now we go get in an experienced manager who will demand his own team and his own way of doing things.

Obviously not Nigel, that would be too embarrassing for the owners, but someone of similar experience.

Or we get in another "yes man" who will involve us in an annual relegation battle during their tenure before departing for Sunderland.

Maybe it is time to ditch the wishful thinking and trying to copy the clubs who have passed by us on their way to the Premiership and start doing what actually works.

If you have to have an inexperienced coach in then they need an experienced DoF to guide them, or you just get in a very experienced manager.

Every managerial appointment this century has been a hopeful gamble with IMO two exceptions: Gary Johnson and Nigel Pearson.

And of the hopeful gambles only Cotts was actually successful.

The problem is that we pivot between these two types as every appointment is a knee jerk opposite reaction against the previous manager/coach

The 3 you name all had several promotions on CV's, if you want promotion - hire someone who's done it.

[LondonBristolian]

37 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Whats fairly clear is that the anger isn’t abating. 
 

Normally what happens after a bad performance is that there’s a reaction, people call for the manager to go etc. In the days after that, cooler heads tend to prevail.

Not here. Not now. And it’s the same across the clubs socials as well.

The issue is that people have sussed that Mannings Southampton game was the exception, not the rule, and they’ve not unreasonably concluded he won’t be able to do the job here based both on what we’ve seen so far and in his prior career.

I can’t see a way it’s pulled round.

I see myself as someone who supports giving managers time and wants to ensure there is every change for a manager to turn things around before I get to a point where I feel things aren't working and can't be resolved. In all honestly, I pushed for sticking with Lee Johnson for far longer than I should have done simply because, whenever we were on a terrible run, we'd always pull a result out from somewhere.

With Manning, Ive wanted to give him time and - even after the QPR and Wednesday games, was still arguing that injuries were playing a part and that there had been enough positive signs from Soton and Boro to justify patience.

But the abject lack of reaction and improvement against Cardiff was the limit fro me.  As you say, all the evidence suggests he is not going to be able to do the job he has been brought in to do and I just cannot see what could happen that could create an improvement. Maybe I will be shocked by improvements v Ipswich, Swansea and West Brom but I just don't see it. And, if we don't get a decent return from those three then I just don't see how he stays in the job, no matter how stubborn JL and BT try to be. 

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I see myself as someone who supports giving managers time and wants to ensure there is every change for a manager to turn things around before I get to a point where I feel things aren't working and can't be resolved. In all honestly, I pushed for sticking with Lee Johnson for far longer than I should have done simply because, whenever we were on a terrible run, we'd always pull a result out from somewhere.

With Manning, Ive wanted to give him time and - even after the QPR and Wednesday games, was still arguing that injuries were playing a part and that there had been enough positive signs from Soton and Boro to justify patience.

But the abject lack of reaction and improvement against Cardiff was the limit fro me.  As you say, all the evidence suggests he is not going to be able to do the job he has been brought in to do and I just cannot see what could happen that could create an improvement. Maybe I will be shocked by improvements v Ipswich, Swansea and West Brom but I just don't see it. And, if we don't get a decent return from those three then I just don't see how he stays in the job, no matter how stubborn JL and BT try to be. 

Yeah, I think Saturday was a clear tipping point - and for avoidance of doubt, the interviews both pre and post match.

Ive been unconvinced for a while that he could do the job. I think from the Boro game I expressed concerns over game management and it’s just got worse as times gone on. Even with that, I put out a poll last week and voted to give him until the end of the season to show improvements in three areas.

However, the delusional pre match, the deflection post match and the sheer hopelessness of the game itself moved me from that to a hard “go” - it wasn’t just the performance, it was that when he was pressed, there was nothing there that gave confidence he could do things differently (and that’s because he genuinely believes what he’s doing is the right thing).

I probably didn’t have a huge journey to travel to get to the “out” from where I was. Posters like yourself, Harry etc did. It’s losing the second group here that makes it unretrieveable for me.

[Harvey86]

Does anyone think we're maybe missing a 'blood and thunder' captain/ senior player in the dressing room to compensate for the lack of passion from LM? I don't question the commitment or passion from the squad, just not sure that anyone in the dressing room has the sort of personality that would drive them on (since Nige left of course). Maybe Naismith when he's back? I remember him shouting at everyone when he was on the pitch all that time ago.

I'm not an LM apologist mind! I'd much rather see passion come from the manager, or at the very least some semblance of tactical nous.

[Henry]

29 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Did we ever establish why Mrs Short followed you?

When we had that discussion I made the point that not only was Short not Mannings man, but that he’d pissed off a lot of people at Oxford with the way he disposed of Wayne Brown. I was looking at the Oxford forum again last night and it seems the way Manning left caused a lot of bad feeling - obviously there’s the job half done piece, but if several on there who appear to be ITK are correct, he came to us and didn’t say goodbye to staff/players - the players just got a text from him to say he was leaving.

Doesn’t scream a great man manager who built real relationships with players. And if you don’t do that, when things go wrong you are in trouble.

I said at the time that he was one of these young managers who keep jumping from job to job just to further their own career. Rather than trying to finish a job at a club and achieving something. Eg Manning, Beale, Martin.

if we were doing well, he’d show us no loyalty so we don’t owe him any.

[GrahamC]

I don’t think so.

At the time of his appointment he had the opportunity to bring in his preferred assistant (Hogg) plus the analyst/coach bloke I can’t ever remember the name of.

This is his set up, Cisse appears to be in (another) non job as a coach, alongside Pat Mountain who is the great survivor in BS3.

They need to find a solution, I expect the ownership are absolutely desperate not to sack him, so all he has to do to survive the season is scrape together 7 more points & he gets the summer to rebuild.

Anyone else coming in just looks like a (further) admission they got it wrong.

[fisherrich]

3 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

The only help he needs is the door opening on his way out.

 

I have no problems with LM. Took on a poisoned challice.

The guy is clearly out of his depth in the Championship. A ridiculous appointment (again) by the Lansdowns that is doomed to failure.

Edited March 4 by fisherrich

[Graham76]

As a compromise, why don’t we sack his assistant and get someone in that role to support him instead.  

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

As a compromise, why don’t we sack his assistant and get someone in that role to support him instead.  

Because that is the same thing as sacking Manning.

”You know that assistant you brought in 4 months ago & have had at every job with you, Liam? We’re sacking him, you need someone else”.

That’s not something any head coach or manager is going to accept.

When Hogg goes so does Manning.

 

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

As a compromise, why don’t we sack his assistant and get someone in that role to support him instead.  

Because we’re not even sure Hogg and Krause actually exist….

[fisherrich]

37 minutes ago, Capman said:

I agree, and that is what makes the whole thing so depressing. Maybe the supporters need to act and demand change at the top to force Steve’s hand. 
It would be great to see the crowd make a statement, not turning up would be probably the most powerful. I imagine that Steve would feel forced to change if the ground was empty for the next home game (apart from away fans). But short of being able to arrange that I don’t see what we can do. The club has treated us with contempt, but as long as we take it I agree they will continue to do so. 

Just wait until Saturday. Another loss and there will be a reaction. Guaranteed.
This shambles can not continue.

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

Just wait until Saturday. Another loss and there will be a reaction. Guaranteed.
This shambles can not continue.

I can almost guarantee we won’t lose on Saturday.

However, with how shit we’ve been I can’t totally rule it out!

[Alessandro]

51 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I get what you're saying and largely agree but I also think, had Manning brought in some Klug-style support at the start it might have helped.

At the moment we have:

1) A (possibly) promising manager who has previously managed for a limited period of time in League One and who is at this level for the first time.

2) An assistant with the same amount of experience as he has and who has only previous been assistant to Liam before so doesn't have experience of a range of inputs and approaches.

3) A Technical Director who is a club stalwart who has worked their way through the ranks behind the scenes which has the upside of knowing the club inside out but the downside of not being able to draw upon experiences from other clubs and approaches. 

4) A Chair who has been at the club from a young age through his father and, whilst having been Chair for a long time, doesn't have a wide range of workplace experiences.

I don't actually think any of 1, 2 or 3 in isolation are necessarily a bad thing. It's good to give people opportunities and sometimes you are better off taking a gamble on someone who is unproven rathe than someone who has reached their ceiling and is jaded as a result.

But 1, 2, 3 and 4 combined leaves us with a massive deficit in experience and - as we saw a few years back with Dean Holden - it tends to be when things are going against you that the lack of experience shows as there isn't the knowledge and experience to draw upon different solutions from different places to find something that works. 

If the club want Tinnion to succeed as Technical Director then brilliant but, to do that, you need some experience on the board and a relatively experienced manager to address the experience gaps. If the club want Manning to succeed, great, but you need either an experienced DoF/Technical Director OR an experienced assistant. 

Like I said in my previous post, I don't think there is any way that the club right now could push for a change in the managerial structure without implicitly admitting a lack of faith in the manager. But I do think Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion have failed themselves as much as they've failed Manning and Hogg by allowing a system to be implemented where the entire command chain from Chairman to Assistant Manager at the club has massive gaps in its range of experience and no consideration has been given to addressing the obvious gaps.

 

Excellent post and the fact that this similar thing keeps happening over and again at the club - suggests something about the Lansdown’s.

I read a quote recently from SL, can’t remember exactly what it was, but something like:

”we’ve created a direct line of communication from owner to manager” 

or something on those lines - and that’s the rub for me:

He can’t have people of experience and talent in those roles of JL and BT because frankly no one good would put up with the meddling. 

Hence the pile up of bodies fired or people jumping ship - Burt, Cotterill, Ashton, Gould, Alexander, Pearson in not many years.

We may not hear from SL anymore, but his fingers are all over the current set up and situation IMO.

 

There’s the other view the Lansdowns want the glory and they want to own it themselves.

Hence why they’ll experiment with bringing in their ‘own men’ and running the show themselves, but then when they’re in a mess, go back to basics and get someone with experience in to fix it.

When we’re back on an even keel, they go back to the ego move of saying “we can do this ourselves again now”, but they can’t and we get in a mess again.

What next?

[redordead1]

3 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

Don't you think Tinnion already sees himself as that experienced older head that is 'helping'? I suspect the club does.

The fact that none of the fans view it like that is evidence itself of what a mess we are in.

We are all effectively calling for a hire or a new role when the club think there's already one in place.

[David Brent]

3 hours ago, fatchers said:

I hear both Johnsons are available.

No more tears